Goh Meng Seng attacks Yaw Shin Leong on his blog

[GoldenDragon]

me still remember the first day me joined SBF after voting in AJ-GRC in May 06. 58585 valid votes if me remembered correctly. 真是塞翁失马

Not an auspicious number - 58585 (cannot prosper). No wonder they lost! Maybe I should buy this number next day.

 

[GoldenDragon]

GD,

Well, PAP has found the cover they needed for the present scandal in the civil service. However, there is a distinct difference between civil service and party candidates. It is yet to be seen how this will play out. Hopefully they are not that smart. It also depend on the expected 3 or multi-corner fight scenarios.

As far as I know, now the editors of SPH are telling their reporters to go for an angle of how bad the WP leadership's judgment is when it comes to selecting candidates. This will be one level up the notch in keeping the fire of Yaw-gate burning on.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS,

I will be most surprised if the MIW allows nature to take its course. There are political points to score here and not to capitalise on this matter would be foolish. It is just how much direction and involvement from behind the scene. There are many reporters who won't need any egging on here. They will also seize the initiative for the sake of their career. Don't under-estimate them - they are smart. They have loads of people to do their thinking on their behalf. They are paid to do just that.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Actually, it doesn't matter whether other people believe it is true or not. It is the perception of applying double standards and the inability of WP to practice what it preaches that matters.

As for Hougang itself, most of the people either believe YSL is innocent, just the usual PAP tactic in attacking opposition or it doesn't matter to them. Even if there is a by-elections in Hougang, any candidate from WP will still be able to win hands down. It is not a matter of concern at all.

There you have it. You yourself admitted that the general population either don't really care, or they don't believe in the truth of the rumours to begin with.

Doesn;t this validate the silence WP is holding? If people couldn't even be bothered, why speak up and cause even more distrust, confusion, and potential backlash?

By your own admission, I am now even more convinced WP is doing the right thing. Unless the people are now firmly believed that YSL is guilty, AND they are angry about his marital conduct, then WP would have to come forth and be honest about wat happened. As it is, the matter is already fading from peoples' minds and no one really convinced either way about the issue. Why not just then bury it and let us turn our attention to more impt matters like the CITY HALL FLOODING, the minister pay, and so on?

GMS, I challenge you to deny all this and refute me.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Goddamn, i can't believe i voted for this wanker in 2006

All Tampines residents who surf SBF or who read GMS trash blog must now wake up and see the real person behind the mask -- a jealous, green-eyed, dog in the manger (kudos to JW5 for pointing this excellent analogy) who does not deserve anyone's vote.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

It is a wishful thinking on your part that people will "forget" about it. People don't really care right now doesn't mean that they will "forget".

You would be surprised how strong memory people have. eg. Steve Chia's photography saga, even up till now, people remember about that. Some are still even angry about that.

Most people don't really care right now basically because they don't need to make any choices (voting) immediately. i.e. Who cares about what photos Steve Chia has taken right now? But it would be quite different during elections time when people are made to go through the voting process, then they will have to search through their memories and information to decide how to vote.

I can tell you this, people who get into affairs don't really stop at one. It is a habitual tendency which is like drug addiction. If the report is true, you will have a problem, big problem, a big potential time bomb ticking. Ignore it once, fine. It may just blow up on your face again.

I have said before, WP will be taking risk again if it chose not to respond in time if the rumor is true. It is taking the chance that people will either ignore this "rumor" or chose to believe that it is false and everything would be fine. But what if subsequently some solid evidence appears? Not only will it destroy YSL totally, the integrity of WP would be dented as well.

Well, just cross your fingers that no photos or any other concrete evidence surfaces. You got to pray very hard, really really very hard for that.

Goh Meng Seng

There you have it. You yourself admitted that the general population either don't really care, or they don't believe in the truth of the rumours to begin with.

Doesn;t this validate the silence WP is holding? If people couldn't even be bothered, why speak up and cause even more distrust, confusion, and potential backlash?

By your own admission, I am now even more convinced WP is doing the right thing. Unless the people are now firmly believed that YSL is guilty, AND they are angry about his marital conduct, then WP would have to come forth and be honest about wat happened. As it is, the matter is already fading from peoples' minds and no one really convinced either way about the issue. Why not just then bury it and let us turn our attention to more impt matters like the CITY HALL FLOODING, the minister pay, and so on?

GMS, I challenge you to deny all this and refute me.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

If you go through a serious thorough analysis, this is definitely an insider's job. Some people suggest that it may be the work of PAP or some anti-WP opposition members, but this is highly unlikely. The reason is that to know such intimate details about the affairs as well as the pregnancy, you will need someone very very close to both of them or at least either one of them.

Angela has given a very important clue by mentioning "the other woman". Now, if the one who wrote to TNP or TRE to "expose" the affairs in a self righteous way, why would he or she only mention ONLY Angela's name and not the other woman's name? If this "Whistle blower" felt so strong about the whole thing and try to whack only Yaw, WB should not even mention Angela's name but just mention TWO women. Apparently the WB is trying to target BOTH Angela and Yaw together selectively while trying not to mention "the other woman".

One possibility is that the WB is Angela's husband but this is quite unlikely now. First of all, by mentioning Angela's name, it would implicate him as well, putting him in the spotlight. Not many man would want the whole world know that his wife has an affair with another man. He could have only mention Yaw's name, full stop. On the other hand, if its Yaw's wife who is the WB, then she would have mentioned both Angela and the other woman's name.

The only conclusion is that whoever this WB is, he or she has an axe to grind with BOTH Angela and Yaw. It is highly possible that "the other woman" is the WB.

There is also a political motivation behind this plot. Apparently if you want to destroy both of them, you won't just send anonymous emails to the press and TRE without any concrete evidence like photographs and such. You would make sure that you can take a photo of them holding hands and such and send it straight. But there is a restrain here, apparently to control the level of damage to WP while shaming both of them. Thus it is unlikely to be the work of anti-WP or PAP people.

Thus it would imply that this is an insider's back stabbing and with that, it is a more worrying incident than the scandal itself. PAP doesn't really need to do anything because if they do, it would be seen as "bullying" and took the attention off from the scandal and the internal strife.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS,

I will be most surprised if the MIW allows nature to take its course. There are political points to score here and not to capitalise on this matter would be foolish. It is just how much direction and involvement from behind the scene. There are many reporters who won't need any egging on here. They will also seize the initiative for the sake of their career. Don't under-estimate them - they are smart. They have loads of people to do their thinking on their behalf. They are paid to do just that.

 

[GoldenDragon]

If you go through a serious thorough analysis, this is definitely an insider's job. Some people suggest that it may be the work of PAP or some anti-WP opposition members, but this is highly unlikely. The reason is that to know such intimate details about the affairs as well as the pregnancy, you will need someone very very close to both of them or at least either one of them.

Angela has given a very important clue by mentioning "the other woman". Now, if the one who wrote to TNP or TRE to "expose" the affairs in a self righteous way, why would he or she only mention ONLY Angela's name and not the other woman's name? If this "Whistle blower" felt so strong about the whole thing and try to whack only Yaw, WB should not even mention Angela's name but just mention TWO women. Apparently the WB is trying to target BOTH Angela and Yaw together selectively while trying not to mention "the other woman".

One possibility is that the WB is Angela's husband but this is quite unlikely now. First of all, by mentioning Angela's name, it would implicate him as well, putting him in the spotlight. Not many man would want the whole world know that his wife has an affair with another man. He could have only mention Yaw's name, full stop. On the other hand, if its Yaw's wife who is the WB, then she would have mentioned both Angela and the other woman's name.

The only conclusion is that whoever this WB is, he or she has an axe to grind with BOTH Angela and Yaw. It is highly possible that "the other woman" is the WB.

There is also a political motivation behind this plot. Apparently if you want to destroy both of them, you won't just send anonymous emails to the press and TRE without any concrete evidence like photographs and such. You would make sure that you can take a photo of them holding hands and such and send it straight. But there is a restrain here, apparently to control the level of damage to WP while shaming both of them. Thus it is unlikely to be the work of anti-WP or PAP people.

Thus it would imply that this is an insider's back stabbing and with that, it is a more worrying incident than the scandal itself. PAP doesn't really need to do anything because if they do, it would be seen as "bullying" and took the attention off from the scandal and the internal strife.

Goh Meng Seng

Well, everything is possible. You zoomed in on the human aspect. May not have come from human beings! Many secrets of individuals came the non-humint way.

 

[skponggol]

There you have it. You yourself admitted that the general population either don't really care, or they don't believe in the truth of the rumours to begin with.

Doesn;t this validate the silence WP is holding? If people couldn't even be bothered, why speak up and cause even more distrust, confusion, and potential backlash?

By your own admission, I am now even more convinced WP is doing the right thing. Unless the people are now firmly believed that YSL is guilty, AND they are angry about his marital conduct, then WP would have to come forth and be honest about wat happened. As it is, the matter is already fading from peoples' minds and no one really convinced either way about the issue. Why not just then bury it and let us turn our attention to more impt matters like the CITY HALL FLOODING, the minister pay, and so on?

GMS, I challenge you to deny all this and refute me.

The media has also created a perception that YSL is guilty and is also hiding and AWOL from his duty, ie he is allowing his private live to affect his public duty to the people. The media has also created a perception that the the party is either ignoring it or trying to cover up. Based on the Nets comments and media report, it seems that the public is believing that perception.

The general population may not care about it, at the moment, but that perception is forever imprint onto their mind.

What is more important is can YSL and WP remain unaffected by the rumours ? Can they continue to do their jobs as before ? Can they look into the eyes of their constituents and pretend that nothing has happened ? Will their consitutents look back at them and also pretend that nothing has happened ? When they conduct their MPS, will they be wondering what is on the mind of the constituents ? When they do their house visit and see people giggling, will they be thinking that they are laughing at them ? When they organise party function and see a group talking, will they be thinking that they are mocking them ? Also, in the minds of the constiteunts, they may be thinking : "Why is he staring at my wife/daughter in such manner ? Should I be worried ?" Surely their work will be affected. If not for his guilty conscience, why would YSL cancel his MPS at the last minute for no reason ?

How about their performance in the parliament. Can they still dare to talk about transparency and accountability to the PAP as they used to ? Do they still have the cheek to speak like 魏徵 in parliament ? They can no longer speak up as confidently and convincingly as before on matters like flooding and minister pay, etc.

Some people comment that their private lives should be overlooked if they can serve the people well. The problem is, they would be unable to serve the people well becos of their private lives.


Actually the rumours is not so damaging as to his response.....You can see his character from his response....People may or may not believe the rumour, but they have seen with their own eyes that he is hiding from reporters to the extent of abandoning his public duty and his constituents...People may not believe that he is an adulterer, but they have to believe, with their own eyes, that he is a quitter and a coward.

 

[GoldenDragon]

One critical lesson from Yawgate - unless you are a MIW, all opposition members, especially elected to parliament or a high profile chap, better not have any character 'weakness' coz only a matter of time it will get exposed. If MIW, no problem. Look at CST and LTK. So far, so good. No skeletons.

 

[Ramseth]

One critical lesson from Yawgate - unless you are a MIW, all opposition members, especially elected to parliament or a high profile chap, better not have any character 'weakness' coz only a matter of time it will get exposed. If MIW, no problem. Look at CST and LTK. So far, so good. No skeletons.

I also don't keep skeletons in closets. Next morning, I'd tell the girls nicely, please go home.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I also don't keep skeletons in closets. Next morning, I'd tell the girls nicely, please go home.

How can you be so mean to Drifter's pits?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

One critical lesson from Yawgate - unless you are a MIW, all opposition members, especially elected to parliament or a high profile chap, better not have any character 'weakness' coz only a matter of time it will get exposed. If MIW, no problem. Look at CST and LTK. So far, so good. No skeletons.

No skeleton, but must have backbone.

 

[Ramseth]

How can you be so mean to Drifter's pits?

Drifter is on the run and has more important things to worry about than his pits, dogs and bitches.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You may be right, all these come from the insects. On the surface, these insects may pretend to be totally loyal to WP but deep down, they are scheming at those people they dislike or not in their clique.

By merely analyzing Angela's responses, we could conclude many things. It is really inconceivable for a woman in such enstrangled situation to reply in such a way, neither deny nor confirm. Apparently, she is reserving the rights to confirm the rumor. She may be hoping for Yaw to take responsibility of the situation, especially if there is a baby involved. Apparently, she dropped the hint that another woman is also involved. Not only that, it may be a subtle warning to that woman not to go any further. The most intriguing part is about letting the party decides. What does that mean? Decide on disciplinary actions? On who? This is after all, her affairs with another man.

If my deduction is right, this WB or the other woman most likely is from the Church as well as WP. She thought that she is smart to use this little trick for revenge, thus to achieve whatever political goals she and her clique have in mind. She doesn't know that the damage would be far reaching. Of course, if the rumor is true, Yaw should be blamed as well.

Singaporean voters are generally unforgiving lot. This may be the repeat of 1991 where SDP won 3 seats but subsequently, lost all seats except Chiam retaining his seat under SPP during GE1997. This is due the internal bickering within SDP. From then on, opposition could hardly recover as swing voters lost all confidence in opposition parties. General votes dropped. The perception is that opposition cannot get their house in order, how could they perform effectively in parliament?

It took opposition more than a decade or two to recover from that situation, regaining voters' confidence again in GE2011. But this incident, if the rumor is true, will put serious doubts on opposition's ability to get good people (without such character flaws) into swing voters' mind again. If the so call best opposition party WP can't even get this right, what about other opposition parties?

The amount of damage the WHOLE opposition movement suffers would be tremendous. Whatever political motivation these insects have in mind will be rendered useless as they will suffer the lost of voters' confidence as well. Insects have no brains, its true.

Goh Meng Seng

Well, everything is possible. You zoomed in on the human aspect. May not have come from human beings! Many secrets of individuals came the non-humint way.

 

[zhihau]

Maybe I should buy this number next day.

bro,
may lady luck smile upon you

 

[skponggol]

deleted.....

 

[maozedong]

u wanna bet a plate of chakuaitiao? i say YSL is toast, and LTK will drop him in the next GE.

who's YSL? he's really a nobody.

if Low drop YSL... I CHOP!!!

 

[brocoli]

I can tell you this, people who get into affairs don't really stop at one. It is a habitual tendency which is like drug addiction. If the report is true, you will have a problem, big problem, a big potential time bomb ticking. Ignore it once, fine. It may just blow up on your face again.

wow.... GMS is like my clone...!!! we think exactly the same

If you go through a serious thorough analysis, this is definitely an insider's job. Some people suggest that it may be the work of PAP or some anti-WP opposition members, but this is highly unlikely. The reason is that to know such intimate details about the affairs as well as the pregnancy, you will need someone very very close to both of them or at least either one of them.

Thus it would imply that this is an insider's back stabbing and with that, it is a more worrying incident than the scandal itself. PAP doesn't really need to do anything because if they do, it would be seen as "bullying" and took the attention off from the scandal and the internal strife.

Goh Meng Seng

insider's job cannot be church goer job ??? church goers tend to be pretty self righteous !!!

I also say dun need to bring PAP into this... thay are just having fun watchin show.... wy do they need to do anything??? but from track record... some smarty pants will sure make some remarks some time down the road

what is WB btw???

You may be right, all these come from the insects. On the surface, these insects may pretend to be totally loyal to WP but deep down, they are scheming at those people they dislike or not in their clique.

By merely analyzing Angela's responses, we could conclude many things. It is really inconceivable for a woman in such enstrangled situation to reply in such a way, neither deny nor confirm. Apparently, she is reserving the rights to confirm the rumor. She may be hoping for Yaw to take responsibility of the situation, especially if there is a baby involved. Apparently, she dropped the hint that another woman is also involved. Not only that, it may be a subtle warning to that woman not to go any further. The most intriguing part is about letting the party decides. What does that mean? Decide on disciplinary actions? On who? This is after all, her affairs with another man.

If my deduction is right, this WB or the other woman most likely is from the Church as well as WP. She thought that she is smart to use this little trick for revenge, thus to achieve whatever political goals she and her clique have in mind. She doesn't know that the damage would be far reaching. Of course, if the rumor is true, Yaw should be blamed as well.

It took opposition more than a decade or two to recover from that situation, regaining voters' confidence again in GE2011. But this incident, if the rumor is true, will put serious doubts on opposition's ability to get good people (without such character flaws) into swing voters' mind again. If the so call best opposition party WP can't even get this right, what about other opposition parties?

The amount of damage the WHOLE opposition movement suffers would be tremendous. Whatever political motivation these insects have in mind will be rendered useless as they will suffer the lost of voters' confidence as well. Insects have no brains, its true.

Goh Meng Seng

you keep focusing on the internal bickering and internal scheming by members... no1 except an Opp insider will think so much ...

but think from a swing voter POV.....

All they will see is that the Party is not enforcing any disciplinary actions on Yaw..... WP cant talk about transparency and accountibility if they dun practice it themselves....

The party could and should have dump Yaw and Angela and give a proper accounting to every1..... but it choose to be deaf frog....

what is most damaging is the party response because that is what swing voter see.....
what you are saying about internal sabo is highly speculative....


my speculations: I am more concerned that people like Yee JJ and Show Mao doesnt have the clout or influence to force the party to come clean ... they are still relatively new, so maybe no power base....I dun think they are so dumb to think keeping mum is the way ... and they dun go back years with Yaw like Low and Sylvia...
WP is stil very much a 1 man show from the look of it... if anything I am surprise by the unity, not disunity.... even low level members are not commenting



and another thing
these "insects" used to be your comrades... at the very least being both in Opp .... you guys are suppose to be on the same side.....
I also heard that many of these insects cry like babies when they heard of your brother's death

its 1 thing to condemn their PR and media skills ... it is another to attack the integrity of the members with wild speculation ...

but dun stop because we are not kids, we can discern for ourselves what is good anallysis and what is speculation ........

 

[BlueWave]

You may be right, all these come from the insects. On the surface, these insects may pretend to be totally loyal to WP but deep down, they are scheming at those people they dislike or not in their clique.


Goh Meng Seng

goh meng seng!

you just unwittingly described your own behavior and scheming nature when you were a WP candidate in 2006.

 

[skponggol]

PAP doesn't really need to do anything because if they do, it would be seen as "bullying" and took the attention off from the scandal and the internal strife.

The best thing for PAP right now is to hold their fire and do nothing...., at the moment, until the next GE. The media should also leave YSL and WP alone.

This is not out for fear of public sympathy of backlash...

Instead the main objective is to save YSL so that he can continue to remain at WP leadership and at the helm of Hougang ward. With such a negative image in the mind of public perception, the longer he remains at WP, the greater the damage he'll bring to the party. The party image and reputation will continue to be smeared by his mere presence. He'll continue to be the focal point of internal power politics. The grassroot members continue to be demoralized. He may stray yet again, nearer to the next GE, to inflict greater damage.

To paraphrase US President Johnson:

"I'd rather have him inside their tent pissing at the inside, than have him outside their tent pissing at the outside."

If this rumour is true, he'll be like a cancer for the party....At such early stage, his damage is manageable. But if it drag to the later stage, it'll spread all over the party and become terminal.

By then the party will be at a great dilemma : "求生不得, 求死不能" - sack him also cannot, save him also cannot.

Btw, your latest blog entry talk about 吴王夫差 and 西施 but you miss out another important character :伯嚭.... and how 越王 helped him to consolidate power so as to demoralize, weaken and ultimately destroy the 吴 state.