Goh Meng Seng attacks Yaw Shin Leong on his blog

[Thick Face Black Heart]

maybe, just maybe, that someone intentionally wants something to be said or done? isn't that an option too?

You are absolutely correct. People like GMS want to goad WP into a response before the truth of the matter has been investigated and thought through carefully by WP's leadership.

WP are not stupid. They know that the average man is concern about morals and personal conduct. They therefore need to seek a right balanced approach so as not to alienated the middle ground, and at the same time, safeguard the welfare of all the innocent victims or parties concerned.

GMS as I said is being very malicious. He knows he cause untold emotional suffering by posting in this manner and trying to goad people into talking about the issue.

Since GMS has gotten so personal and vindictive, I hope Margaret is reading this thread. Let her know the viciousness of her husband.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Being silent on this matter may be his best option. Denying on admitting may just escalate this matter. Just learn from the MIWs. Silence has useful purposes too. Doing nothing, saying nothing is an option.

While the internal investigation is still ongoing, it is in the best interest of the spouses and other innocent parties for everyone to keep their mouths shut.

To speak before the the whole truth is known or before all factors are considered only jeopardizes the interests and feelings of the innocent victims of the affair.

 

[skponggol]

Sorry, bro, have to disagree. Al Gore was defeated by his own weakness as a candidate. He was a stiff, aristocratic, head up in the air guy who couldn't connect with the masses. Nothing to do with Bill Clinton. In fact, during the height of the M.L. scandal, the partisan nature of the attack caused many people to sympathize with Bill.

Gore blamed Clinton for his defeat in election
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lamed-Clinton-for-his-defeat-in-election.html

- Mr Gore "forcefully" blamed the former president for his loss, saying that the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal and the low esteem in which voters held Mr Clinton had proved serious obstacles to his campaign.

Michelle Obama takes a shot at Hillary Clinton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1qZMBE9Gc


Al Gore's opponent, George W Bus, was also another stiff aritocratic spoilt brat who won his GOP nomination thru his daddy network. Gore would have lost by a much convincing margin if not for the reporters exposing the private live of George Bush, ie his drinking driving accident many years ago, which caused millions of his supporters deciding to stay home and boycott him on election day.

In the height of Monica Lewinsky affair, it was exposed that the Republican leadership were also engaging in extramarital affairs, and thus causing the public to side with the Clinton and saved his Presidency, but subsequently causing Al Gore and Hillary Clinton their White House dream, as the American people refuse to forgive and forget the Clinton scandal.

So the private lives of politicians do matter to the public, even in a supposedly liberal society in America.

 

[brocoli]

You are missing the point. Saw your post to TFBHNearly all such matters have various levels of intrique. Nothing happens in a vacumn. Who back stabbed who is not the issue. That is for the housewives at the wet market. And obviously you. The issue is you holding court in public and driving the agenda on this. Clearly you like to see more damage done to WP rather than PAP. As I asked you before, why don't you be consistent and ask for public inquiry on all extra marital affairs of public officials or MPs or even ask Foo and Shanmugam to confirm or deny.

I am so stupid.. I dun understand how Yaw having an affair have to do with PAP.... PAP force Yaw to eff around??? this is a low traffic forum ...not TOC or TRE... what agenda is being driven I have no idea

the guy who started all extra marital affairs shit is now asking another guy to call for a public inquiry instead of doing it himself... as far I see GMS never ask Yaw for public inquiry....

You are absolutely correct. People like GMS want to goad WP into a response before the truth of the matter has been investigated and thought through carefully by WP's leadership.

Since GMS has gotten so personal and vindictive, I hope Margaret is reading this thread. Let her know the viciousness of her husband.

I really wan to express my admiration to TFBH for starting s title totally irrelevant to the topic
because Goh Meng Seng didnt really attack Yaw at all at the startm it was a very good article... but because TFBH know GMS so well, he just put it as the title anyway ....

True enough GMS not only say "Yaw likely has personal vendetta against him" then went on a tirade on how disunited and negative WP are....

he basically start saying WP is bunch of backstabber blah blah, wanting their own MP to die as if any1 can force Yaw to eff around... .....

TFBH is the oracle of all oracle able to predict what will happen so come up with most appropriate title

While the internal investigation is still ongoing, it is in the best interest of the spouses and other innocent parties for everyone to keep their mouths shut.

To speak before the the whole truth is known or before all factors are considered only jeopardizes the interests and feelings of the innocent victims of the affair.

is there even internal investigation in the 1st place ??? did low already say dun bother him with rumours.... ??


ultimately this is not bout sex or moral or whether he did anything at all .... Yaw was confronted by the media, he didnt have the gut to lie or guts to deny or admit... that is main crux... talk so much also doesnt change that fact...

dun need to bring Shanmugan or Foo Mee Har into the picture, they were never confronted by MSM.... dun need to bring in all the shit about media biasness...

some 1 actually took the risk of being sue and pass the infor to TNP and TRE...TNP and TRE took the risk of being sue and publicise it...

scoobal sit behind his keyboard and talk until got dragon got phoenix... I dare to say if you dare to confront them, they will have the guts to say

"NO, I didnt do it"

and sinkies will believe them because they got guts to lie/deny

just look at steve Tan, he make a statement, he have guts to say his conscious is clear... Yaw say no comment....

Pathetic.. dun need to defend Yaw at all, he blew it, WP blew it...

dun need to blame others, dun need to blame WP activists sabo or PAP activists ... Yaw choose to Jump into the hole, and He also choose not to jump out of the hole...

no1 force him, no1 sabo him... he sabo himself

talk so much also doesnt change that fact...

simple as that

 

[Forvendet]

From what I've read so far, I guess that GMS and Ramseth are in the know all along. When media breaks the news, GMS is capitalizing on it for further smear and intrigue. Obviously, still having bad blood clots between him and YSL and WP. Ramseth tried cushion, distraction and generalization but all tactics failed.

I'd advise both to stop it. GMS, you'll be seen to be adding fuel to fire. Ramseth, you'll be seen to try to help but inept and making the matter worse.

From my personal point of view, I don't wish to see a resignation and by-election in Hougang. PAP will win because all parties will rush in to contest multi-corners.

 

[skponggol]

Firstly, there is no way the allegations are false. If it were so, they would have been refuted, laughed at, and the parties making those allegations thoroughly discredited or even potentially facing a defamation suit.

The point is that while there has to be some truth in those allegations, dat does not mean wat has been told is 100% accurate. Don't forget there are some people out there (like GMS) who has an agenda to destroy WP and in particular a personal vendetta against YSL. These allegations could have been mixed with various falsehoods to intensify the negative image and drag innocent parties into the fray. WP and YSL in particular have a duty to protect the innocent parties from the falsehood that has been stirred into the story.

Right now, let me tell you very honesty, what WP is doing is not simply to study ways to minimize political damage, but also to find out what really is the truth, what really happened. Someone out there might be deliberately mixing truth and falsity so as to smear YSL and WP's reputations. WP 1st must ascertain what has been really going on, before making a judgment to decide what to do. That is the real reason for its silence.

So you also agree that there is some truth in the allegation....

If WP is conducting its own investigation, then why can't they just explain it out to the public like Teo Chee Hean :

TFBH, a gag order would have help if LOw say what Teo CHee Hean said,

"we take all allegation very seriously, our internal Party discipline committee is investigating them seriously, in the mean time, we urge the public not to speculate so as not cause harm to the familes involved, we hope the media will respect the privacy of the family involved, if he is innocent, we would wan to clear his name too so as not to sully the reputation of our MP and the Party"....

Instead, they such flimsy reply as to give the public the perception that they are incompetent, condoning extramarital activities and doing cover-up.

Even if they were later reveal the whole truth of their report, the damage to their reputation has already been done. People may perceive that they are simply yielding to public pressure unwilling. People may think that the party is taking time to fabricate and cook up its finding so as to protect other individuals.

If the PAP were to behave like WP on the SCDF/CNB case, and release their finding later, the public would also be sceptical and remain unconvinced.

Secondly, how does a gag order hurt the families and women involved? These folks would gain no advantage in letting people go ahead and spill all the beans or start making comments here and there, even before the whole truth has been ascertained. In fact, the right way to protect the innocent is actually to impose a gag order, especially when the waters are still murky and there are many unsubstantiated rumours flying around, some of which may have absolutely no basis.

From the stand point of YSL wife and whoever parties are innocent victims, their interest would not be served at all by bringing the press into the fray, but rather quietly resolving the issue with their own spouses away from the media spotlight. This is a very personal, a very private, and yes, an extremely hurtful and embarrassing set of circumstances. The last thing any innocent spouse would want is to have the media barging in, or to have WP people starting to comment here and there.

You agree that the allegation are not 100% accurate...Maybe the woman named in the rumour is not accurate or that other member was involved instead of Yaw....If so, they and their family must be going thru hell right now....with the gag order making it worse as they cannot stand up and defend yourself and loved ones.

If one were Yaw's wife or woman's husband, what'd one do if the allegation are false and the whole nation (including their friends and relatives) assume that it is true ? Sit down and shut up, while awaiting the final verdict from the arbitrary Party Big Brothers and seeing their loved ones suffering even greater smear and abuse ??? The longer it takes, the more hurtful it will be to the innocent parties.

That's why the party has to stand up, speak up and make a forceful statement so as to protect their faithful party members who have sacrificed so much to the party to serve the people and nation.

 

[brocoli]

From what I've read so far, I guess that GMS and Ramseth are in the know all along. When media breaks the news, GMS is capitalizing on it for further smear and intrigue. Obviously, still having bad blood clots between him and YSL and WP. Ramseth tried cushion, distraction and generalization but all tactics failed.

I'd advise both to stop it. GMS, you'll be seen to be adding fuel to fire. Ramseth, you'll be seen to try to help but inept and making the matter worse.

From my personal point of view, I don't wish to see a resignation and by-election in Hougang. PAP will win because all parties will rush in to contest multi-corners.

what a schemeing pair, if true...

when the incident 1st broke 9 days back , I immediately confronted them... One say he dunno, the other say no evidence....

and I kanna zapped like nobody biz by every1 who dismiss it immediately ....

 

[skponggol]

While this issue is very hot in here, it has faded from the view of most Singaporeans. No credible evidence in the form of pictures or witnesses emerged. The wife expressed support and the abscence was explained by a normal CNY get a way. While there will be some who believe that this is real, there will be others who think this is just yet another smear attempt by the PAP dirty tricks dept.

Over time, it will fade from the view of most Singaporeans. But the perception is forever imprint onto the mind of all Singaporean : The WP MP is an adulterer and a coward, the party condone extramarital actitivies, does not support family values, untruthful and involve cover-up...

This will be their brand name in the mind of most people, for a very long time. Once that perception is formed, it won't change easily.

 

[Forvendet]

when the incident 1st broke 9 days back , I immediately confronted them... One say he dunno, the other say no evidence....

Come on, I was NS police before too. No evidence or no offence disclosed are words that investigating officers use if they want to let someone go. If they want to let someone go, even if there was evidence for offence, they could easily file it one side as no further action pending further evidence or even simpler, throw it away.

 

[skponggol]

While the internal investigation is still ongoing, it is in the best interest of the spouses and other innocent parties for everyone to keep their mouths shut.

To speak before the the whole truth is known or before all factors are considered only jeopardizes the interests and feelings of the innocent victims of the affair.

How can the interest of innocent parties be protected by keeping their mouth shut for so long ? The longer they remian silent, the more guilty will be in the eyes of public.

Do the family have so much faith on the Party investigation that they would surrender their future and their family future onto the hand of the Party Big Brothers ?

The party is subjecting the innocent parties to an unneccessary torturous sadistic stress. Sooner or later, some may not take it anymore and may burst their grievances to the media, and thus aggravating the situation even further.

 

[aurvandil]

Over time, it will fade from the view of most Singaporeans. But the perception is forever imprint onto the mind of all Singaporean : The WP MP is an adulterer and a coward, the party condone extramarital actitivies, does not support family values, untruthful and involve cover-up...

This will be their brand name in the mind of most people, for a very long time. Once that perception is formed, it won't change easily.

That can only happen if

1 Credible evidence emerges
2 There are witnesses who come forward, are identified and are willing to reveal their story.
3 There is an admission of guilt.

So far 1 and 2 have not happened. This leads me to believe that they do not exist. That leaves 3 and why so many are jumping up and down to try and get him to confess.

In the abscence of 1, 2 or 3, this will just blow over with no major impact to WP branding or perception.

And least I be said to be blinded by WP propaganda, this is just my assessment. PAP supporters can comisson another one of those secret polls 6 months hence to see if this is correct.

 

[JohnnyQuid]

aurvandil how rightly put.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone...

As far as I am concerned, as this news is unreliable and most importantly UNVERIFIED, then IMHO, it is simply a rumour.........

 

[skponggol]

That can only happen if

1 Credible evidence emerges
2 There are witnesses who come forward, are identified and are willing to reveal their story.
3 There is an admission of guilt.

So far 1 and 2 have not happened. This leads me to believe that they do not exist. That leaves 3 and why so many are jumping up and down to try and get him to confess.

In the abscence of 1, 2 or 3, this will just blow over with no major impact to WP branding or perception.

And least I be said to be blinded by WP propaganda, this is just my assessment. PAP supporters can comisson another one of those secret polls 6 months hence to see if this is correct.

1. Based on the Net response and newspapaer report, he is already assumed guilty by the general public, and will remain so until credible evidence emerges.

2. Unlike other rumours involving PAP MPs, there are witnesses who had come forward, identified and had been more than willing to reveal their story to the media.

3. Neither is there an admission of innocence.

 

[aurvandil]

1. Based on the Net response and newspapaer report, he is already assumed guilty by the general public, and will remain so until credible evidence emerges.

2. Unlike other rumours involving PAP MPs, there are witnesses who had come forward, identified and had been more than willing to reveal their story to the media.

3. Neither is there an admission of innocence.

Seriously doubt if this is so. The so called wide spread belief he is guilty is something cooked up by the msm who did everything they can to make it look as if there was credible evidence. The fact that none emerged despite the directive to dig intensively leads me to believe this is not true.

Still nothing like empirical evidence in the form of a perception survey 6 mths hence to prove/disprove hypothesis.

 

[zhihau]

hello hello ...long time no see

Happy lunar new year to you

bro,
發啊！

 

[captainxerox]

Seriously doubt if this is so. The so called wide spread belief he is guilty is something cooked up by the msm who did everything they can to make it look as if there was credible evidence. The fact that none emerged despite the directive to dig intensively leads me to believe this is not true.

Still nothing like empirical evidence in the form of a perception survey 6 mths hence to prove/disprove hypothesis.

i think most people who following the scandal would see that ysl was caught with pants down, whether he was really having fun with a fat married gal on the side or not is secondary in the so called court of public opinion. which is rather not a court now but more of a mob. that's the power of public perception.

 

[aurvandil]

i think most people who following the scandal would see that ysl was caught with pants down, whether he was really having fun with a fat married gal on the side or not is secondary in the so called court of public opinion. which is rather not a court now but more of a mob. that's the power of public perception.

I am questioning the widely held belief that a overwhelming majority of Singaporeans believe that YSL is guility. Unless TRE or the MSM can produce credible evidence, this will either fade or be spun as a smear campaign to discredit WP.

 

[captainxerox]

I am questioning the widely held belief that a overwhelming majority of Singaporeans believe that YSL is guility. Unless TRE or the MSM can produce credible evidence, this will either fade or be spun as a smear campaign to discredit WP.

bro, the mob out there is like that one. sometimes no evidence they still believe, sometimes got evidence they still don't believe. the idiots are legion. that's why even after so called watershed elections in 2001, then 2006, then 2011, pap is still in power.

what matters is how it is the ysl yarn is spun, regardless if truth or not. spore politics is going down that road.

for the moderates out there, they don't care if it is true or not, as long housing, healthcare, transport, livelihood needs are seem to be addressed. again whether really addressed or not and to what extent when, that one is different topic

 

[denzuko1]

Gore blamed Clinton for his defeat in election
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lamed-Clinton-for-his-defeat-in-election.html

- Mr Gore "forcefully" blamed the former president for his loss, saying that the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal and the low esteem in which voters held Mr Clinton had proved serious obstacles to his campaign.

Michelle Obama takes a shot at Hillary Clinton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1qZMBE9Gc

Michelle Obama on Hillary Clinton during the 2008 Democratic Primary:

- "One of the important aspect in this race is role-modelling, what a good family should look like. And my view is that if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House. Can't do it."

Btw, Bill Clinton was re-electecd in 1996, before the Lewinsky scandal.

As for Chua Soi Lek, he bravely stepped up, faced the reporters, apologised, admitted his faults AND RESIGNED FROM THE CABINET (HEALTH MINISTER), PARTY POST (VICE-PRESIDENT) AND MP FOR BATU BAHAT......That's why he saved his supporters and party power base from totally wiped out by his opponents so that he can make a swift comeback among the partyt grassroot... But at the expense of party image. The Chinese community perception of MCA and their members that allow a confessed womaniser to become their president must have taken a big tolls as BN support among the Chinese continue to plunge all the things they had done to win back their votes.

My apologies for the mistake on the timing for Bill Clinton's re-election and the Lewinsky's scandal. I acknowledge that the re-election comes before the scandal.

As far as I can recall, it was not really a thorough defeat and Al Gore was neck and neck with George Bush.The Clinton's affair itself was not as significant as his own over-conciousness of the affair. Al Gore tried to shy away from Clinton's personal affair but at the same time wanted a share of limelight of Clinton success. He was the one who emphasised the wrong doings of Bill Clinton and went on claiming that he was lied to in the whole event.

But if you go through the campiagn trail especially the televised debate, you will find his performance is paled compared to Bush's. There was also the issue with his campaign co-runner Lieberman also failed badly in his debate with Dick Cheney, in fact, Leiberman as running mate was considered as the more likely cause of Al Gore's loss in the campaign, not Bill Clinton's affair.

Hillary Clinton did not lose her campaign because of Bill Clinton, instead she lose to Obama in debate. She failed to exhibit the charismatic ambience that Obama has at the time. If I was an American, I would also choose Obama because he was very firm that he could do the job. Hillary on the other hand acted more like in second position trying much to chase Obama in the race.

As for Chua Soi Lek, he did not step down willingly but was asked to by the committee of which contained people plotting to have him removed. In fact, at that time, he not only gained the respect o his own supporters, but also from opposition wing. The Malaysia's election in 2008 tells it all. The Chinese has lost faith in MCA so much that most of its candidates were rejected, especially the new comers. His son however, beat the odds and got elected.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Actually, it doesn't matter whether other people believe it is true or not. It is the perception of applying double standards and the inability of WP to practice what it preaches that matters.

As for Hougang itself, most of the people either believe YSL is innocent, just the usual PAP tactic in attacking opposition or it doesn't matter to them. Even if there is a by-elections in Hougang, any candidate from WP will still be able to win hands down. It is not a matter of concern at all.

This may be the basis why WP chose to remain silent, knowing that it will not lose support in Hougang any way. However, this episode will leave open an attack front for PAP in future GEs.

For me, I will just sit and watch how the internal back stabbing work out to be. If it can go to such extend now, let's see how it will develop in near future.

Goh Meng Seng

I am questioning the widely held belief that a overwhelming majority of Singaporeans believe that YSL is guility. Unless TRE or the MSM can produce credible evidence, this will either fade or be spun as a smear campaign to discredit WP.