Forest City

[mpan12]

No one in the right frame of mind compares Forest City with Singapore HDBs. The former is well-planned and spacious with freehole tenure. The latter is planned to squeeze poor chaps like u and me into the highest density psf housing in the world. And its leasehold.

The former is supported and owned by the PRC. The press now call China the "REGIONAL SUPERPOWER" How about Singapore? They call it Pee Sai etc ( Do you dare to deny? )

Come 2020 or 2025, at this rate Singapore is declining and degenerating itself and paying millions to a bunch of inept cabinet ministers, I wont be surprised to see Singaporeans kids staying and studying and enjoying life in Iskandar Malaysia while Singapore is reserved for those who are poor.

You sound frustrated living in Singapore. Have you sold away your lousy "highest density psf in the world" HDB flat and consider migrating elsewhere, like Iskandar? Hmmm... come to think about it, that would give you lots of money from the sale.

It never fails to amuse me when Singaporeans talk bad about their own situation and country (they don't know how fortunate they are really) but at the same time, they are still keeping their pink ICs and/or still have that seemingly disgusting pigeon-hole HDB flat. Why keep it if it's so bad and has little value? Is it?

I haven't heard it mention that SG is a "pee sai" country. Your mischievous son told you that?

On the contrary, I have come across and heard too many people from all walks of life and immigrants exclaiming how lucky and happy they are to be in SG. People from China (of course), Philippines, India, and lo and behold, yup, Malaysia.

Funny that you guys are taking a snapshot of Forest City or Puteri Harbour or whatever place and say Wahhh, see? SG no fight. It's going to go down soon. Property prices will crash. Of course Forest City is no fight. It's a China Chink infested place situated in a corrupted 3rd world country! What could be worse? If you so like it there, why not quickly grab a condo to migrate over to?

Always remember the song: "There was a time when people said that SG won't make it, but we did...." SG's high cost of living did not happen overnight. If this had been the case, the country would have toppled way back in the 2000's.

In the '80s, grandmothers used to tell the grandkids: "During my time, a bowl of noodles only cost 10 or 20 cents. Now it's S$1.50!" In the '90s, the price went up to S$2. In the 2000's, it was S$2+. Now it's S$3.50 and idiots here are like: "WOW WOW WOW, I cannot take it! I can't survive! Noooooo... SG is a damned place! Johor food sooooo cheap!" From S$1.50 to S$3.50 after 30 years you complain what???

Looking at the whole thing from a broader perspective, I think it boils down to the phrase "one man's meat and another man's poison". There will bound to be people who hate Singapore and prefer living elsewhere. There will bound to be many Malaysians who wouldn't think twice about getting a SG citizenship, settle down here, and would never ever want to go back to a corrupted country where their government favors a certain race.

The real situation I encounter is so different from what is often being discussed here. My Malaysian colleagues, and friends or friends of friends have related to me countless stories about how hard it is to get into a Malaysian uni despite their good grades, about how they or their relatives have been mugged or have things wiped out from their homes by burglars. Yet, ironically, there are panicky little chickens running naked, shouting "The sky is falling!!! Singapore is doomed! I must send my kids to schools in Johor!!!"

Now, I don't also necessarily like the SG government. But do not take for granted the safe environment we have in SG, the high standards of living, including good education and healthcare. Many of you here are not earning $1k or $3k a month. But you talk like you are finding it hard to make ends meet.

Plan for your future rather than bad mouth your own country, or other countries for that matter. If life is so hard to bear in SG, why not quickly find ways how you can get a Malaysian residency or even better, a citizenship? Then go buy a nice big house in your Iskandar. Go please! If only many people think like that. Then Singapore will get rid of many unappreciative buggers who still keep their "pathetic" HDB flats but at the same time, bad mouth SG.

 

[winners]

You sound frustrated living in Singapore. Have you sold away your lousy "highest density psf in the world" HDB flat and consider migrating elsewhere, like Iskandar? Hmmm... come to think about it, that would give you lots of money from the sale.

Can you imagine a dude earning S$130k monthly profits (buy at RM200k and sell at S$200k) from business transactions staying in a HDB? Of course, he'll next tell you that he has 3 other fully paid condo units to collect rents from and he's still building up his properties portfolio.

And if I may, I dare say that he could be an SPR, shamefully milking from his so-called "dumb Sinkies". How ungrateful?

 

[Tekkun]

This I have to agree, Singapore would be populated by the poor in future, my relatives all from my generation and beyond have either married foreign spouses or already migrated.

I still see a lot of people all over Orchard Road eating and shopping. I see many Porsche Macans on the road. Isetan is full of people. Food is cheap. I had a plate of mee pok cost only $3.50 in Clementi food court. Earn in S$ spend in S$ is ok. Of course if you say you want to eat in 5* restaurants everytime, then it is expensive. Likewise if you want to stay in condos, then it is expensive. Then again, if you compare to London, that is even more expensive. But it it is still thriving and rich people are still there.

Just remember every HDB owner is a millionaire in RM. So how poor can you be?

 

[RedsYNWA]

True, it's not expensive to live a simple life in SG, ie hawker centre meals, 4 rm HDB in Woodlands, and BMW (Bus, MRT, Walk). But if you want more, say Joel Robuchon dining, landed house and a real BMW, the costs can quickly add up.

Personally, i am of the view that SG's best days are behind it, and things will get progressively tougher due to our low productivity and natural land/labour limits. In 10-15 years time, SG will still be a major South East Asia hub, but no longer a shining red dot.

Hopefully by then, with the advent of tech and maturing transport links, I would have made enough to stay in JB, while working in SG, and renting out my SG properties to foreign talents.

 

[hasslehoff]

Has anyone ever wondered why PRCs favored Iskandar and not other states? Who is behind the scenes? That is something which Singapore does not have. And that did not happen overnight.

Just wondering who has jurisdiction over how FC is developed. Is it solely Johore state/Sultan (being an annex of their 'sovereign' state) or does Federal have a say? In terms of CIQ by air, land or sea, if entry limited to just FC, can Johore have final say? If Federal challenges any decision making, will Johore play the 'Seperation' card.

If Johore has the ultimate say, the way in which the development can progress is limitless and up to the imagination. Another mini Hainan island. Hawaii of the Straits, predominantly aimed at Mainlanders? (And those who defy convention and willing to take risk, hoping gamble will pay off)

 

[Tekkun]

Has anyone ever wondered why PRCs favored Iskandar and not other states? Who is behind the scenes? That is something which Singapore does not have. And that did not happen overnight.

Just wondering who has jurisdiction over how FC is developed. Is it solely Johore state/Sultan (being an annex of their 'sovereign' state) or does Federal have a say? In terms of CIQ by air, land or sea, if entry limited to just FC, can Johore have final say? If Federal challenges any decision making, will Johore play the 'Seperation' card.

If Johore has the ultimate say, the way in which the development can progress is limitless and up to the imagination. Another mini Hainan island. Hawaii of the Straits?

For clarification, I never said FC is a success. I am stating my observations as I see it during my visit there. I am no fanboy of FC, anyway.

FC was carved out of the sea which is out of Land and Mines jurisdiction. Federal do not have any say unless it involve a third country such as Environment Impact or CIQ. Airports and seaports is Federal. FC is a total private project so to speak. Having said that, the Local Government laws would still be in place eg building by laws, fire standards and safety issues. I suppose it is about compliance only.

My personal views are the development plans is very fluid and changes as and when required to make it competitive. The initial sale of residential units be it sold in China or at FC, it is to provide impetus and initial financing for the project. The real game changer would be the commercial buildings. I believe if they can attract commercial activities to this place, then this place would be in a very strong position in the region. The imagination can be so extreme that it can even sell one of its reclaimed island to anyone who is interested to do what they want to do. You never know if some Arabs would put up a dedicated island for Islamic Financing Center. Endless possibilities.

On the separation issue, Independence was granted to Federation of Malaya, Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore then. Johore is part of the Malaya and not as an individual State, therefore it is nearly impossible to breakaway. So the short answer is NO to FC as independent and automomous.

Would I invest there? No.
Why? Cos the timeline is too long and the demographics is not my personal liking. The future is still in the air and not concrete enough to convince me yet. Taking away the fact I had invested in Puteri Harbour, everything being equal, I still think Puteri Harbour is a better buy. I am a firm believer in what you see is what you get.

 

[Tekkun]

Interesting chart. It is 40% cheaper for PRCs to invest here compared to 10 years ago.

 

[hasslehoff]

For clarification, I never said FC is a success. I am stating my observations as I see it during my visit there. I am no fanboy of FC, anyway.

FC was carved out of the sea which is out of Land and Mines jurisdiction. Federal do not have any say unless it involve a third country such as Environment Impact or CIQ. Airports and seaports is Federal. FC is a total private project so to speak. Having said that, the Local Government laws would still be in place eg building by laws, fire standards and safety issues. I suppose it is about compliance only.

My personal views are the development plans is very fluid and changes as and when required to make it competitive. The initial sale of residential units be it sold in China or at FC, it is to provide impetus and initial financing for the project. The real game changer would be the commercial buildings. I believe if they can attract commercial activities to this place, then this place would be in a very strong position in the region. The imagination can be so extreme that it can even sell one of its reclaimed island to anyone who is interested to do what they want to do. You never know if some Arabs would put up a dedicated island for Islamic Financing Center. Endless possibilities.

On the separation issue, Independence was granted to Federation of Malaya, Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore then. Johore is part of the Malaya and not as an individual State, therefore it is nearly impossible to breakaway. So the short answer is NO to FC as independent and automomous.

Would I invest there? No.
Why? Cos the timeline is too long and the demographics is not my personal liking. The future is still in the air and not concrete enough to convince me yet. Taking away the fact I had invested in Puteri Harbour, everything being equal, I still think Puteri Harbour is a better buy. I am a firm believer in what you see is what you get.

I also am neither For or Against FC. One thing I think most will agree on is that you cannot ignore it.

The sheer audacity to dream big, I thought was an American thing. The Mainlanders have in a short couple of decades achieved amazing progress, and no one has seemed to tell them that they might stumble or fall (except maybe the IMF); so they have this 'Anything Can' attitude. An amazing self belief or foolish ignorance. A fine line depending on whether you also want to believe and follow, or object/abstain.

I can't imagine what sort of conversations CG management had with the Sultan.

Sultan: We can't sell you any land, but we have space in the sea.
CG: that sounds good..what can we do there? Commercial Free Trade Zone/China showcase, Duty free shopping. WANDA Theme Park, Casino IR...etc. Can we build airport, ferry terminals, direct road to sg, mrt, etc. OK, where do we sign!

 

[hasslehoff]

On the separation issue.

I thought Johore like Texas in the US, is the only state that has a right to separate if it so chooses. Didn't the young Prince recently bring out a document to shove in the face of some Government official?

 

[rotikok]

Plan for your future rather than bad mouth your own country, or other countries for that matter. If life is so hard to bear in SG, why not quickly find ways how you can get a Malaysian residency or even better, a citizenship? Then go buy a nice big house in your Iskandar. Go please! If only many people think like that. Then Singapore will get rid of many unappreciative buggers who still keep their "pathetic" HDB flats but at the same time, bad mouth SG.

Haha from your comment, i can see the difference btw malaysian and singaporean. Malaysian if you don't bad mouth malaysia, you are not malaysian. While opposite happen to singaporean, they bueh tahan ppl bad mouth sg and write thousand words just to shoot back. I got a singaporean auntie ask me how to comment back on youtube bcoz she beh tahan ppl bad mouth on Singapore Lee dynasty, want to shoot back immediately, not even a second she can tahan. But you are right, iskandar cannot be better than sg, without winning over KL first. Iskandar economically better to position to be the poor man place with top class quality living, explore such demand first before move up the value chain. Sg do not have china speed in building but their millions dollar cabinent ensure sg have the policy administration speed even faster than china, and discover problem way earlier than china. They able to revolution their economy quicker and easier....this kind of country very hard to died and very hard iskandar can win de, even sg government quality win over US or many others developed countries, world best i would say.

And pi sai is said by taiwan foreign diplomat
https://youtu.be/jwMyKfalwSU
Start 45 s

I also am neither For or Against FC. One thing I think most will agree on is that you cannot ignore it.

The sheer audacity to dream big, I thought was an American thing. The Mainlanders have in a short couple of decades achieved amazing progress, and no one has seemed to tell them that they might stumble or fall (except maybe the IMF); so they have this 'Anything Can' attitude. An amazing self belief or foolish ignorance. A fine line depending on whether you also want to believe and follow, or object/abstain.

I can't imagine what sort of conversations CG management had with the Sultan.

Sultan: We can't sell you any land, but we have space in the sea.
CG: that sounds good..what can we do there? Commercial Free Trade Zone/China showcase, Duty free shopping. WANDA Theme Park, Casino IR...etc. Can we build airport, ferry terminals, direct road to sg, mrt, etc. OK, where do we sign!

They can buy land near tanjung kupang, you see, they fill up land psf is rm100-300, agri land there only rm30 psf. Some more they are partnering with johor state gov for FC, it would be cheaper to just develop tanjung kupang area, sultan would not even bother, there are still many state land in gelang patah area. But what their countrymen want is hainan style island, if FC is not an island, it would not attract so many PRC to buy there. Plus, open up a new greenfield ensure the living space btw the local is not in conflict. And closer to sg, really beside sg, they shud thx sg for using their name for marketing.

So they are tax free island? Do they have dedicated road straight to ICQ? If not out to malaysia sure kena tax gao gao. They are building hotel, wont mati de la, they got the customers tourists base, they can even coop with tourist middlemen in china to live in their hotel before gai gai (jalan jalan in hokkien) to singapore.

 

[sgtsk]

Deleted.........

 

[sgtsk]

It seems to me FC is a small tropical haven nearer to China, combining property investments opportunities, business and corporate centres, financial centre, port facilities, duty free shoppings, tourism, education and healthcare services in one place for mainlanders. Also, FC could leverage on its close proximity to Singapore which already has been successful with prc market to package what FC could offer with what Singapore could offer, at 20%-50% discounts. I would say FC is very deep in strategy.

 

[Investor888]

I did not have any HDB flat to sell in the first place and I still keep my Pink IC because Malaysia govt has rejected my application for PR flatly. I thought it was easy judging by how easy it is for PRCs to seek Singapore Citizenship. But I guess one is no better than toilet paper while the other is being held in high regard.

You sound frustrated living in Singapore. Have you sold away your lousy "highest density psf in the world" HDB flat and consider migrating elsewhere, like Iskandar? Hmmm... come to think about it, that would give you lots of money from the sale.

It never fails to amuse me when Singaporeans talk bad about their own situation and country (they don't know how fortunate they are really) but at the same time, they are still keeping their pink ICs and/or still have that seemingly disgusting pigeon-hole HDB flat. Why keep it if it's so bad and has little value? Is it?

I haven't heard it mention that SG is a "pee sai" country. Your mischievous son told you that?

On the contrary, I have come across and heard too many people from all walks of life and immigrants exclaiming how lucky and happy they are to be in SG. People from China (of course), Philippines, India, and lo and behold, yup, Malaysia.

Funny that you guys are taking a snapshot of Forest City or Puteri Harbour or whatever place and say Wahhh, see? SG no fight. It's going to go down soon. Property prices will crash. Of course Forest City is no fight. It's a China Chink infested place situated in a corrupted 3rd world country! What could be worse? If you so like it there, why not quickly grab a condo to migrate over to?

Always remember the song: "There was a time when people said that SG won't make it, but we did...." SG's high cost of living did not happen overnight. If this had been the case, the country would have toppled way back in the 2000's.

In the '80s, grandmothers used to tell the grandkids: "During my time, a bowl of noodles only cost 10 or 20 cents. Now it's S$1.50!" In the '90s, the price went up to S$2. In the 2000's, it was S$2+. Now it's S$3.50 and idiots here are like: "WOW WOW WOW, I cannot take it! I can't survive! Noooooo... SG is a damned place! Johor food sooooo cheap!" From S$1.50 to S$3.50 after 30 years you complain what???

Looking at the whole thing from a broader perspective, I think it boils down to the phrase "one man's meat and another man's poison". There will bound to be people who hate Singapore and prefer living elsewhere. There will bound to be many Malaysians who wouldn't think twice about getting a SG citizenship, settle down here, and would never ever want to go back to a corrupted country where their government favors a certain race.

The real situation I encounter is so different from what is often being discussed here. My Malaysian colleagues, and friends or friends of friends have related to me countless stories about how hard it is to get into a Malaysian uni despite their good grades, about how they or their relatives have been mugged or have things wiped out from their homes by burglars. Yet, ironically, there are panicky little chickens running naked, shouting "The sky is falling!!! Singapore is doomed! I must send my kids to schools in Johor!!!"

Now, I don't also necessarily like the SG government. But do not take for granted the safe environment we have in SG, the high standards of living, including good education and healthcare. Many of you here are not earning $1k or $3k a month. But you talk like you are finding it hard to make ends meet.

Plan for your future rather than bad mouth your own country, or other countries for that matter. If life is so hard to bear in SG, why not quickly find ways how you can get a Malaysian residency or even better, a citizenship? Then go buy a nice big house in your Iskandar. Go please! If only many people think like that. Then Singapore will get rid of many unappreciative buggers who still keep their "pathetic" HDB flats but at the same time, bad mouth SG.

 

[Investor888]

Err RM 130k in monthly profit is written by you. I better distance myself from your comments

Can you imagine a dude earning S$130k monthly profits (buy at RM200k and sell at S$200k) from business transactions staying in a HDB? Of course, he'll next tell you that he has 3 other fully paid condo units to collect rents from and he's still building up his properties portfolio.

And if I may, I dare say that he could be an SPR, shamefully milking from his so-called "dumb Sinkies". How ungrateful?

 

[Investor888]

I can see clearly here that many Singaporeans are still thinking they are number 1 in everything and are hooting me over my frank comments. Anyway, all these figures were taken from trade and reports. If u are not able to to accept your airports, airlines and seaports etc are no longer world firsts, you had better read the online news daily and be better informed. Its better than coming to forum to hantum anyone here who is stating the facts because it will make you look stupid

 

[winners]

Err RM 130k in monthly profit is written by you. I better distance myself from your comments

It's S$130k, not RM130k. RM130k is peanuts.

 

[winners]

I can see clearly here that many Singaporeans are still thinking they are number 1 in everything and are hooting me over my frank comments. Anyway, all these figures were taken from trade and reports. If u are not able to to accept your airports, airlines and seaports etc are no longer world firsts, you had better read the online news daily and be better informed. Its better than coming to forum to hantum anyone here who is stating the facts because it will make you look stupid

No one say anything wo.
You ownself feel guilty conscious sibo?
But if you want, now is a good time to attack lor.

Anyway some of your posts are hardly credible because in several instances, you subconsciously contradicted yourself. Those who follow your posts will know.

 

[mpan12]

Haha from your comment, i can see the difference btw malaysian and singaporean. Malaysian if you don't bad mouth malaysia, you are not malaysian. While opposite happen to singaporean, they bueh tahan ppl bad mouth sg and write thousand words just to shoot back. I got a singaporean auntie ask me how to comment back on youtube bcoz she beh tahan ppl bad mouth on Singapore Lee dynasty, want to shoot back immediately, not even a second she can tahan. But you are right, iskandar cannot be better than sg, without winning over KL first. Iskandar economically better to position to be the poor man place with top class quality living, explore such demand first before move up the value chain. Sg do not have china speed in building but their millions dollar cabinent ensure sg have the policy administration speed even faster than china, and discover problem way earlier than china. They able to revolution their economy quicker and easier....this kind of country very hard to died and very hard iskandar can win de, even sg government quality win over US or many others developed countries, world best i would say.

My 1 comment and you can already deduce the difference between Singaporeans and Malaysians? That's a sweeping statement.

I don't represent the general Singaporean. There are many forums where Singaporeans slam other Singaporeans, the SG government, etc. People are all different, you know.

I was commenting just based on how unhappy some here are. Or maybe they are keyboard warriors. Kept emphasizing how small the HDB flats are (and as you can read, that guy does not even own a flat to begin with!), like "pigeon holes", imply people here are wretched, poor, how Singapore will be doomed in the next 10-15 years.

Then the big question is, why are they still here? Haha... It's so contradicting. I dunno what they are trying to prove.

Move on...Go Malaysia if it's so good! If cannot get PR, then go somewhere else! China? Mongolia? Iran? Pakistan? Africa maybe? Or try Australia, US, Canada? Will they want you? If not, just shut up.

No one place is perfect. Why take out the worst about Singapore and magnify it, and the best about Johor and magnify it? Then imply See, see... SG is doomed. I already bought Iskandar properties. Poor prople like you remain in SG.

To those who are so -ve SG, go do your groundwork research. Talk to more Singaporeans from different walks of life. I know many here are towkays or run businesses. Your mindset is very narrow. When business is good in the good old days, your properties huat, you kept quiet. You quietly earn your millions in SG. Now economy not good, you shout out: "Jia lat, SG is dying. Worthless place. Better get out. Go into Iskandar. Johor so much better. HDB flats are for the poor. Pigeon hole size." Really a bunch of a**holes, some people.....

Many commoners, SPRs and foreigners still love SG. Remember 70% of SGporeans even voted for the present government. Go talk to students. Their minds are not brainwashed yet to hate SG. Go talk to the successful young workers and graduates. Many are earning good money. They can still survive well for many decades in SG. No one talks about running away from SG and go into Iskandar because Dooms Day is coming. This issue is grossly exaggerated by a few over zealous Iskandar property owners.

 

[mpan12]

I did not have any HDB flat to sell in the first place and I still keep my Pink IC because Malaysia govt has rejected my application for PR flatly. I thought it was easy judging by how easy it is for PRCs to seek Singapore Citizenship. But I guess one is no better than toilet paper while the other is being held in high regard.

You don't even have HDB flat then you speaking for HDB flat owners?

If Malaysia cannot get PR, and SG is such a restricted place, so densely populated with small and expensive flats (even though you don't own one), then why not look at other countries? Many Singaporeans have worked overseas or migrated and they are happy. You should keep trying if life in SG is so unbearable.

 

[RedsYNWA]

Its true that many Singaporeans still live in the past glories, thinking that life is all good, and relying on past strategies formulated 30 years ago.This kind of thinking permeates, right from the top all the way to the bottom.

LKY and Goh Keng Swee must be turning in their graves.