Forest City

[snowbird]

To make real comments, one need to got here to see it with own eyes. No point talking from keyboards.

Actually the land is real. What they had launched now is 1st island and I won't even say that is reclaimed land as it is the land closest to mainland. Therefore land there is solid, maybe got filling up but minimal. There's some area which they are building semiD and bungalows. I suppose these are reclaimed land further out towards the sea and the price is something like RM5m for a 2500 sq ft cluster SemiD. These sold out condos will keep the developer very busy for the next 3 years.

The rest of reclaimed land,I dare not say. Even the very large scale model does not have any buildings on it. It is unlike what we see on pictures of it. Yes, I have to say that they are building at breakneck speed. I see highways being built replacing the present road.I see lorries going in and out into the sea filling up with sand. And the carparks are full. I drove around few times to find one.

As for the shopping complex, flop or no flop, time will tell. But I see a lot of PRCs there and it would be good to have something for them to do such as shopping. Whether they close down or not, doesn't matter as the main objective is to serve these initial buyers. Eateries are there. I myself took lunch at Paparrich. CIMB bank is also there. I see most of these PRCs are middle aged ones, so can say they are serious visitors. No yuppies.

Are you so sure I've not been to FC before?
The land that you said is real is actually still reclaimed land, you were fooled.
The portion nearer to the shoreline are known as shallows, when it is low tide, the sea water level may be only knee height or even lower.
But nonetheless, it is still reclaimed land of at least 2M above mean sea level so you were standing on at least 2m thick of reclamation material.

The Chinese developers are all out to impress people, especially those non-discerning ones.
When they first arrived in JB (CG, R&F, Greenland), their showrooms and their willing to spend big money to glam it up were not seen here before.
On this, I must salute them for their guts in believing 小财不出大财不入 and after all, its their customers are who ultimately paying for it (羊毛出自羊身上）。
And hopefully, when you come back next year, Paparich is still around unlike those many unlucky ones that lost big money in CG Danga bay.

 

[rotikok]

Apparently, FC is not build with SG in mind.

They even said is clearly, "FC, beside Singapore." Singaporean do not need such marketing gimmick like they don't know the geography...they want to entice mainlander using Singapore as bait.

Ironically, rich Malaysian Chinese are emigrating whilst the Tiongs are coming to Malaysia (as what some in this thread are predicting). Are those Malaysian Chinese missing something?

Remind me of 10 20 years before HK return to China. Those "clever one" all relocate their asset to overseas, fearing communist coming. Are they missing something, looking back, seem like they did. I think the answer is simple la, working, should go overseas earn bigger currency units. Investing, you should go to area where there is high economic growth speed. Malaysian Chinese emigrating to work overseas, seem rights, ah toing come to invest, also no wrong.

Is free hold or leasehold. No 1m restrictions for foreigners ?

Mainland residential ppty 60 yrs leasehold, no such thing as freehold in china, thereafter either forced to give back to gov or pay tax (dunno how many %) yearly. Freehold is a big attraction point to them.

The Chinese developers are all out to impress people, especially those non-discerning ones.
When they first arrived in JB (CG, R&F, Greenland), their showrooms and their willing to spend big money to glam it up were not seen here before.
On this, I must salute them for their guts in believing 小财不出大财不入 and after all, its their customers are who ultimately paying for it (羊毛出自羊身上）。
And hopefully, when you come back next year, Paparich is still around unlike those many unlucky ones that lost big money in CG Danga bay.

I think they are building ghost town, but surprise enough, I think I might be wrong. Because they build it big, build it huge, they got the crowd gathering effect. So end up those surrounding individual condo may mati first because lack the facilities and conveniences. Also, when enough people to make it lively, it will be domino effect, more and more people move in, your first choice will be CG, not nearby condo. But so many ah toing...I also dunno local want to live there or not.

 

[Merlion]

It is true in that sense as it is a greenfield development. Just look at the highways they are now building as well as monorail system. I have never seen such marketing efforts before in a property showroom. They even had live bands on a Monday!!!

Comparing Puteri harbour and this place, PH wins hands down. Totally different class and atmosphere. I am biased.

Puteri Harbor is definitely more value for money. More classy with nicer ambience.

 

[Tekkun]

Forest City fail or no fail, I really do not know. One thing for sure, it will not be a ghost city.

Hmm..just wondering how those seabed piling work..2m, 3m or 10m.

 

[eatshitndie]

Forest City fail or no fail, I really do not know. One thing for sure, it will not be a ghost city.

Hmm..just wondering how those seabed piling work..2m, 3m or 10m.

need to be at least 63m or 200 feet to be secure with bedrock. otherwise, tall buildings will sink and tilt, like the millenium tower in sf. after a few years already sank 16 inches and tilted 2 inches. a few more years it will be red-tagged and rendered uninhabitable. sell-offs and lawsuits underway. will sure collapse in a 6.9 earthquake. piling only went down to 25m or about 80 feet.

 

[sgtsk]

need to be at least 63m or 200 feet to be secure with bedrock. otherwise, tall buildings will sink and tilt, like the millenium tower in sf. after a few years already sank 16 inches and tilted 2 inches. a few more years it will be red-tagged and rendered uninhabitable. sell-offs and lawsuits underway. will sure collapse in a 6.9 earthquake. piling only went down to 25m or about 80 feet.

May I ask what would be the depth of the piling required if the buildings are on the shore (non reclaimed land) adjacent to FC islands?

 

[eatshitndie]

May I ask what would be the depth of the piling required if the buildings are on the shore (non reclaimed land) adjacent to FC islands?

in the u.s. code it is at least 200 feet or about 63m on shore or m&d flats. the millenium tower is built on muddy shore in mission, next to old docks and harbor. for reclaimed land or island, it should have been deeper until piling drills into bedrock.

 

[sgcount]

No point predicting what will happen to FC. What they do there won't affect us. But I won't be surprised if it becomes a ghost town. It has happened in their own country. The Tiongs can come and go shopping by just taking a flight over. Then stay for a few days a year only.

Some say they are buying for their kids.... it remains to be seen. Maybe many will go to the newly built school there. But this is a totally new and untested place. The traditional parents, those who are academics, or those who think long term will know that SG is the country where they want their kids to go to for education if possible. Also a good stepping stone to higher education abroad.

The Tiongs just have too much money. Not surprising if FC if just a place where they park their money. Culture and language-wise, they are different from Malaysians. At least in Singapore, we have a much higher Chinese population and many speak Mandarin and English. And after buying FC, would they look for jobs in Johor? I doubt so.

Interesting to see how all these will turn out.

 

[Tekkun]

in the u.s. code it is at least 200 feet or about 63m on shore or m&d flats. the millenium tower is built on muddy shore in mission, next to old docks and harbor. for reclaimed land or island, it should have been deeper until piling drills into bedrock.

So if all go for good engineering practise, building on reclaimed land is ok as long as you piled and hit bedrock and piles does not settle?
If that is the case, why are we so worried that buildings in FC would sink?

 

[eatshitndie]

So if all go for good engineering practise, building on reclaimed land is ok as long as you piled and hit bedrock and piles does not settle?
If that is the case, why are we so worried that buildings in FC would sink?

are they friction piles? or do the piles hit bedrock? depth doesn't matter if piles go into bedrock. many tall buildings in sf survive the last big quake in 89 because they are literally sitting on bedrock a few meters deep. how tall are the buildings in fc? what are their weights? are they steel-framed, or are they reinforced concrete? the millennium tower is the first reinforced concrete skyscraper over 50 storeys in sf. this adds weight unnecessarily to the total load. all other skyscrapers in sf are i-girder steel-framed and way lighter than the millennium tower. if any skyscraper in fc starts to sink over 12 inches and tilt over 6 inches in a few years, get out fast. the tilt is the worst. if no tilt, can still hope that whole building sinks evenly until soft soil or m&d beneath becomes 100% compact like compressed clay with water pressed out. but that's no guarantee later with ground water movement and eventual soil liquefaction in the absence of bedrock.

 

[rotikok]

No point predicting what will happen to FC. What they do there won't affect us. But I won't be surprised if it becomes a ghost town. It has happened in their own country. The Tiongs can come and go shopping by just taking a flight over. Then stay for a few days a year only.

Some say they are buying for their kids.... it remains to be seen. Maybe many will go to the newly built school there. But this is a totally new and untested place. The traditional parents, those who are academics, or those who think long term will know that SG is the country where they want their kids to go to for education if possible. Also a good stepping stone to higher education abroad.

The Tiongs just have too much money. Not surprising if FC if just a place where they park their money. Culture and language-wise, they are different from Malaysians. At least in Singapore, we have a much higher Chinese population and many speak Mandarin and English. And after buying FC, would they look for jobs in Johor? I doubt so.

Interesting to see how all these will turn out.

MM2H cannot work or look for job here. Without such ruling, it will still be a barrier for tiongsters even singaporean to come and work here because they all dont speak bahasa. But so many ah tiongs come to retire (well there should have such unexplore demand)? Should be good to the local chinese and local malay may require more chinese vocabulary since those alien do not speak their language. I dont know how thing will go, success or failure, will be very interesting to see how iskandar change with the influx of foreign chinese. Is good that they do not reside into JB, that will cause unrest, certain living cycle segregation ensure every party interest maintained. In not so distant future, china will be richer than malaysia, judging by gdp per capita. So that will increase their willingness to retire in cheaper cost nation....by the time hopefully FC brand is perfect to entice them.

 

[sgtsk]

in the u.s. code it is at least 200 feet or about 63m on shore or m&d flats. the millenium tower is built on muddy shore in mission, next to old docks and harbor. for reclaimed land or island, it should have been deeper until piling drills into bedrock.

Thank you for the infor!

 

[snowbird]

So if all go for good engineering practise, building on reclaimed land is ok as long as you piled and hit bedrock and piles does not settle?
If that is the case, why are we so worried that buildings in FC would sink?

You still don't understand.
Different building type requires different type of piling or foundation works.
For low rise buildings like semi-Ds and terrace houses, the piling are shallow and the building actually rest on a raft foundation and is technically "floating' on the land (like a boat floating on water).
As for high rise multi-storey buildings and depending on soil condition, different type of deep piling are required to be driven deep into the ground as determined by the structural / civil engineers.

Reclaimed land, no matter how much mechanical compaction being done, will settle further due to natural compaction over time.
In Marina South in SG, the settlement period was more than 15 years before building works start.
In FC, the building construction begin immediately after reclamation while some reclamation works around it is still in progress.
So for the low rise building, because they are resting on shallow piling and on a raft foundation, they will "sink" along with the settlement.
However if the settlement is uneven, which is normal, 100% there'll be serious crack all over the buildings and have doors that cannot close anymore.
As for the high rise buildings, because they are resting on pilings driven into solid ground will stay as it is.
But with the ground around it settles further over time, you'll have a funny sight of buildings standings on stilts.

 

[Tekkun]

are they friction piles? or do the piles hit bedrock? depth doesn't matter if piles go into bedrock. many tall buildings in sf survive the last big quake in 89 because they are literally sitting on bedrock a few meters deep. how tall are the buildings in fc? what are their weights? are they steel-framed, or are they reinforced concrete? the millennium tower is the first reinforced concrete skyscraper over 50 storeys in sf. this adds weight unnecessarily to the total load. all other skyscrapers in sf are i-girder steel-framed and way lighter than the millennium tower. if any skyscraper in fc starts to sink over 12 inches and tilt over 6 inches in a few years, get out fast. the tilt is the worst. if no tilt, can still hope that whole building sinks evenly until soft soil or m&d beneath becomes 100% compact like compressed clay with water pressed out. but that's no guarantee later with ground water movement and eventual soil liquefaction in the absence of bedrock.

Good to know there are structural people around here. TQ.
I asked a simple piling question cos there are too many allegations that Forest City built on reclaimed land is not stable. Contractors know if they pile on whatever soft top soil, the piles will eventually reach the bottom and if it too soft and piles refused to set, they will keep piling until it is stable or reach bedrock. I didn't drive around to see what type of piles they are using. I think they are using bore piles as I do not recall seeing any pile drivers.

Forest city is built on these concepts which is very interesting:

 

[Tekkun]

[FONT=&quot][h=1]Forest City opens first phase of Commercial Street[/h][h=2][/h]By The iProperty.com News Team on Oct 04, 2016

277 Read


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gelang Patah, 4 October – Forest City opened Harbour Commercial Street last Saturday, 7 months after it launched its mega project in March. Located next to the Sales Gallery and connected to the soon to be open Phoenix Hotel, the commercial street houses big names in fashion.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Imagine shopping in JPO packaged with 4-star accommodation and scenic beaches with lots of fascinating recreational activities for the kids. Products available are fashion items from the affordable to high-end range. With 14 stores such as H&M and luxury flagship store SECOO with renowned brands such as LOUIS VUITTON, GUCCI, PRADA, GIVENCHY, CARTIER, HERMES and FENDI, it is set to excite shoppers in Johor and also from across the causeway.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There will be 2 weeks of great promotions with attractive discounts up to 50% for certain purchases for the next 2 weeks, conditions applied. During this period, shoppers can also expect freebies and giveaways including admission tickets to Fun Fun Park, an indoor kids’ playroom located on the commercial street.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A local delight, PappaRich and Wa Hu Japanese Noodle Shop are some of the available choices for the patrons. Making its way to Harbour Commercial Street is also the popular Korean coffee shop, DROPTOP which will be opening by December.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Built in phases, the commercial street is anticipated to have a total of 22 retailers on the 2nd floor sitting on a mass of 7,500 sq metres which is connected to the lobby of Phoenix Hotel. First and the third floor is expected to open soon.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr Daivd Cheung, Director from leasing department CGPV says, “not only business transactions in this commercial street contribute to the local economy, it also offers job opportunities with competitive remuneration. Those with retail experience are encouraged to grab this opportunity”.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He also adds, “Forest City has marked another notch in its progress to complement the development of Iskandar Malaysia.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Read more at http://focus.iproperty.com.my/news/...hase-of-commercial-street#mJF8R5hivVcocYs5.99[/FONT]

 

[rotikok]

问：新加坡填海要等10年才能建房，为什么森林城市只1年就建房？
碧桂园官方回答：这问题根本上来说就是安全问题，而我们所有建筑计划都通过政府部门的安全评估后才交付的。所有建筑都会打桩到海底岩层，安全有保障。采用排水板技术加快沉降速度。

问：填海的团队？填海的技术应用，是采用哪种先进填海技术？
答：填海团队是JBB（本地著名填海公司，柔佛州大多数填海工程由该公司负责）；使用了CSD吹填、车填技术。PVD排水加速固结、预留沉降、加大基础尺寸。现场的置业顾问给我说澳门、新加坡、荷兰很多城市的很多地方都填海填出来的。


原文網址：https://kknews.cc/house/pv5a28.html

 

[Investor888]

What a dumb question by the reporter.

No one in the right frame of mind compares Forest City with Singapore HDBs. The former is well-planned and spacious with freehole tenure. The latter is planned to squeeze poor chaps like u and me into the highest density psf housing in the world. And its leasehold.

The former is supported and owned by the PRC. The press now call China the "REGIONAL SUPERPOWER" How about Singapore? They call it Pee Sai etc ( Do you dare to deny? )

With the vastly popular Sultan of Johor co-owning Forest City, they now have the Twin-Turbo engines required to propel this town far ahead of Singapore which is lagging far behind now economically. Singapore is still ranked way in front because PRCs are throwing in their billions of ill-gotten funds here and not Hong Kong. Afterall, PSA and SIA has seen their anchor cilents gradually departing them for cheaper alternative. Unless Changi Airport T4 and T5 can come up with something new, Singapore's state-owned and run enterprises will become very much like the mega failure budget Airline carrier TigerAirway where it is beaten to a pulp by AirAsia the undisputed budget airlines Champions.

Come 2020 or 2025, at this rate Singapore is declining and degenerating itself and paying millions to a bunch of inept cabinet ministers, I wont be surprised to see Singaporeans kids staying and studying and enjoying life in Iskandar Malaysia while Singapore is reserved for those who are poor.

问：新加坡填海要等10年才能建房，为什么森林城市只1年就建房？
碧桂园官方回答：这问题根本上来说就是安全问题，而我们所有建筑计划都通过政府部门的安全评估后才交付的。所有建筑都会打桩到海底岩层，安全有保障。采用排水板技术加快沉降速度。

问：填海的团队？填海的技术应用，是采用哪种先进填海技术？
答：填海团队是JBB（本地著名填海公司，柔佛州大多数填海工程由该公司负责）；使用了CSD吹填、车填技术。PVD排水加速固结、预留沉降、加大基础尺寸。现场的置业顾问给我说澳门、新加坡、荷兰很多城市的很多地方都填海填出来的。


原文網址：https://kknews.cc/house/pv5a28.html

 

[Tekkun]

What a dumb question by the reporter.

No one in the right frame of mind compares Forest City with Singapore HDBs. The former is well-planned and spacious with freehole tenure. The latter is planned to squeeze poor chaps like u and me into the highest density psf housing in the world. And its leasehold.

The former is supported and owned by the PRC. The press now call China the "REGIONAL SUPERPOWER" How about Singapore? They call it Pee Sai etc ( Do you dare to deny? )

With the vastly popular Sultan of Johor co-owning Forest City, they now have the Twin-Turbo engines required to propel this town far ahead of Singapore which is lagging far behind now economically. Singapore is still ranked way in front because PRCs are throwing in their billions of ill-gotten funds here and not Hong Kong. Afterall, PSA and SIA has seen their anchor cilents gradually departing them for cheaper alternative. Unless Changi Airport T4 and T5 can come up with something new, Singapore's state-owned and run enterprises will become very much like the mega failure budget Airline carrier TigerAirway where it is beaten to a pulp by AirAsia the undisputed budget airlines Champions.

Come 2020 or 2025, at this rate Singapore is declining and degenerating itself and paying millions to a bunch of inept cabinet ministers, I wont be surprised to see Singaporeans kids staying and studying and enjoying life in Iskandar Malaysia while Singapore is reserved for those who are poor.

Has anyone ever wondered why PRCs favored Iskandar and not other states? Who is behind the scenes? That is something which Singapore does not have. And that did not happen overnight.

I have to say however lousy MY Government admin is, ordinary Malaysians has practical hands on experience in business and that itself is an advantage. In MY, politics and business do not mix. Each have their own thinking and independent. You do not see all the richest men in MY are involved in politics. So it is silly to try to talk so much to politicise in a property forum. It is connected but it does not sway decisions.
Those who talk bad about Forest City is just worried it would succeed. But don't worry. Malaysians very stupid people. It can never succeed. They said the same thing some 10 years ago. LOL.

 

[xebay11]

What a dumb question by the reporter.

No one in the right frame of mind compares Forest City with Singapore HDBs. The former is well-planned and spacious with freehole tenure. The latter is planned to squeeze poor chaps like u and me into the highest density psf housing in the world. And its leasehold.

The former is supported and owned by the PRC. The press now call China the "REGIONAL SUPERPOWER" How about Singapore? They call it Pee Sai etc ( Do you dare to deny? )

With the vastly popular Sultan of Johor co-owning Forest City, they now have the Twin-Turbo engines required to propel this town far ahead of Singapore which is lagging far behind now economically. Singapore is still ranked way in front because PRCs are throwing in their billions of ill-gotten funds here and not Hong Kong. Afterall, PSA and SIA has seen their anchor cilents gradually departing them for cheaper alternative. Unless Changi Airport T4 and T5 can come up with something new, Singapore's state-owned and run enterprises will become very much like the mega failure budget Airline carrier TigerAirway where it is beaten to a pulp by AirAsia the undisputed budget airlines Champions.

Come 2020 or 2025, at this rate Singapore is declining and degenerating itself and paying millions to a bunch of inept cabinet ministers, I wont be surprised to see Singaporeans kids staying and studying and enjoying life in Iskandar Malaysia while Singapore is reserved for those who are poor.

This I have to agree, Singapore would be populated by the poor in future, my relatives all from my generation and beyond have either married foreign spouses or already migrated.

 

[winners]

It is very amusing how some people here will praise FC as if it is already a proven successful project.

One can even say he was told by the salesman that 14 blocks of condominium units had already been pre-sold, when none is even ready for occupation yet. Furthermore FC is not even a matured establishment, like for example: downtown KL. Common sense will prevail that such information is highly skeptical, especially when one is a businessman himself.

Another, who compares HDBs with FC. At least the HDBs are not vacant. FC is meant for the rich, which the average Johoreans will avoid because they are already spoiled for cheaper choices in and around JB. If the supposed Ah Tiongs are indeed the buyers, how many will reside on a permanent basis, unless they can find employment or business entities here? All the talk on retail shops and "what?" street. They'll surely need consumers to survive. Otherwise, how long can they last unless there are white knights who will keep pumping money into this commercial entity. Already, vacant condo units and shops in Medini would have given one an idea of how slow can a new development progress.

Any true veterans (not flippers) in the property market will honestly tell you that surging property prices can only be sustained if the region is able to successfully attract labor and capital with high growth and offering superior job opportunities. Do I see these in FC now?

Anyway, to summarize, I'm still waiting to see when those units at Country Garden Danga Bay will complete. What's the percentage of occupation in those units and how rowdy will the place be? This will be an important gauge for future developments in Johor going forward. Don't forget, JB's population is only about 3.5m.