Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[nayr69sg]

Here's the other thing that people should consider over the next 5-15 years:

Given the disastrous immigration policy which opened the floodgates, how is the government going to handle dual citizenships cases for these new citizens?

I'm not referring to Singaporeans whose parents were born in Singapore and thus Singaporean citizens without another country's citizenship.

I'm referring to Singaporeans whose parents were not born in Singapore and whose native country enshrines jus sanguinis by law e.g. Philippines as an example among others.

How will the government's handling of these cases influence or affect the unspoken treatment of dual citizenship cases?

Did people consider that?

Again, I don't have the time nor feel compelled to have to draw this out in detail but I hope readers get the gist - the government created a monster without realizing the consequences, and those who have left and are considering dual citizenship should think about the ramifications.

Why next 5-15 years? Because that's when ever-increasing numbers of new citizens have boys who reach NS age or whose parents have exercised jus sanguinis on their behalf.

What's there to consider. Singaporeans in Singapore will demand blood. They will demand all these jokers be thrown into prison. The anger with NS is deep rooted.

Cries of unfairness and all that jazz will come out.

Honestly, if you get any waivers to your advantage please never share them here. NEVER. PLEASE.

The Singaporeans who read it here will become very jealous and angry. They will demand who this person is and want BLOOD.

No need to boast. You get your way, just be contented and keep quiet. The PAP govt is actually not so bad. It is not the PAP who want to tekan these jus sanguinis / defaulters what have you.

It is the Singaporean public. Everything is driven by the Singaporean public like it or not. They push for policies and they vote for the PAP.

Just keep quiet and don't share. There is no reason to help anyone. If they don't get it they will tekan you for giving false advice. If they get it they will boast to the world and then get everyone in trouble.

Never help Singaporeans. Please.

 

[scroobal]

Spot on Doc. This was raised before. I always felt that Singaporeans struggle with English. The difference between may, will or shall has also caused great confusion for Singaporeans. They also tend to treat the Straits Times as the gospel truth.

The Minister has exercised this in regard to National security. Our current AG's father TT Rajah had his citizenship revoked and for years had to travel with a certificate of identity. He did not hold dual ciizenship but it was done for his left wing activties.

If the Govt truly wanted to refuse renewal of Singapore passports for those who hold dual citizenship, they would have made it very clear in the renewal application with bold letters. Yet they accept these applications.

By the way when you are rejected renewal, no senior ICA Officer is going to call you and tell you personally. Senior staff got better things to do. One is not applying to be an NMP.

Thank you indig10 for sharing Article 134. As I have put in bold, the law says MAY. It does not say WILL.

Can people see the difference? It is the discretion of the government. By letter of the law, scroobal is correct. It does not say that you will be deprived of Singapore citizenship if you acquire the citizenship of another country. It only says that you may be deprived of your Singapore citizenship.

Has there been any precedent case where a person was put to jail in Singapore for holding dual citizenship? No.

Now there is a big difference between talking about whether the Singapore law "allows" or "prohibits" dual citizenship, and whether Singapore extends the full privileges of Singapore citizenship to one holding dual citizenship. For example passport renewal.

Chewed, from your experience you were verbally told by some officer that you would not be allowed to renew your Singapore passport and that it was against the law to hold dual citizenship. People can say anything. Officers can say anything. Sometimes to really know what the law is, you have to go to court. And in Singapore the courts are not impartial. We all know that here.

Chewed, if you look at your experience again, what happened was you tried to renew your Singapore passport while declaring you held dual citizenships. ICA's officers told you they would not renew it. You asked why. They said that it was because the law prohibits dual citizenship. You did not challenge them. You did not even ask for the law in writing. You did not write to ICA to ask for written clarification. And you certainly did not hire a lawyer to go to court to challenge ICA.

Now I am not expecting that people would go to the extent of going to court for this. Really? For what? The privilege to buy some landed property in Singapore? Please lah.

But it is one thing to share an experience and another to say that the LAW STATES THAT DUAL CITIZENSHIP IS PROHIBITED.

It is also one thing to say that there is no law specifically prohibiting dual citizenship and another to say that you can HAVE FULL PRIVILEGES OF SINGAPORE CITIZENSHIP EASILY DESPITE HOLDING DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

Until somebody who has enough time, money and energy and drive for whatever reason decides that he/she wants to go to court and fight this matter, will we never know what should be the proper process by precedence.

As I have said again and again, the point is moot anyway. It is ICA's decision whether to renew a Singaporean's passport. So don't expect it to be a walk in the park to get it renewed with dual citizenship. Has it been done before? Well we hear that some people have. Again that is totally still consistent with the law stating that they only MAY deprive the person of Singapore citizenship in the event of dual citizenship.

If you aren't going to challenge, then just share and say it wasn't easy renewing the SG PP and it didn't happen for you. But is there a need to name call Scroobal and imply he is spreading lies?

Fact is, no one in their right mind who already has another citizenship, when told he cannot renew his Singapore passport is going to court with Singapore on this. Neither would anyone when threatened that they will be thrown in jail if they do not renounce Singapore citizenship, risk going to jail just to prove whether they are right. Not even Scroobal.

What I suggest when discussing this law on Singaporeans holding dual citizenship is to qualify at the end that while you CAN be holding dual citizenship, it will not be easy renewing your Singapore passport as a dual citizen unless you falsely declare that you do not hold dual citizenship, which is fraud. (I suspect that's what some Singaporeans do in order to get their passports renewed. Which is why no one ever shares that here. But at the same time, Singapore and ICA is not so free to go audit everyone applying for Singapore passport renewal to see if they truly have dual citizenship despite declaring that they don't. However if they do.....then you have committed fraud)

 

[Charlie99]

[[ Never help Singaporeans. Please. ]]

**********************************

I agree.

 

[winnipegjets]

What's there to consider. Singaporeans in Singapore will demand blood. They will demand all these jokers be thrown into prison. The anger with NS is deep rooted.

Cries of unfairness and all that jazz will come out.

Honestly, if you get any waivers to your advantage please never share them here. NEVER. PLEASE.

The Singaporeans who read it here will become very jealous and angry. They will demand who this person is and want BLOOD.

No need to boast. You get your way, just be contented and keep quiet. The PAP govt is actually not so bad. It is not the PAP who want to tekan these jus sanguinis / defaulters what have you.

It is the Singaporean public. Everything is driven by the Singaporean public like it or not. They push for policies and they vote for the PAP.

Just keep quiet and don't share. There is no reason to help anyone. If they don't get it they will tekan you for giving false advice. If they get it they will boast to the world and then get everyone in trouble.

Never help Singaporeans. Please.

How do you come to that conclusion (in bold)?

Let's face it ...we are products of the system created by the PAP. Few can get out of the PAP conditioning.

 

[Agoraphobic]

I am not familiar with legal stuff (I just avoid cops), and am an ex-Singaporeans, emigrated, but now working in Peesai (under E-pass). About this dual citizenship thing, I have come across a couple of Singaporeans who still travel with their Singapore passports, who also hold another country's passport (like USA, and Canada - yes - BOTH!). They just keep a low profile and do not talk about it openly. Sort of keep it hush-hush. Whatever reason, its is theirs to keep, I do not pry their private lives. So I don't ask. However, will be interested to know how as a US citizen, s/he avoids paying taxes for income earned. I know the States is really sticky when it comes to income tax. I recently joined an investment company in Singapore and had to fill a US form declaring that I am not a US citizen so I can be excused from submitting income tax returns form to the US department for income tax (I think it is called Form 8).

Cheers!

 

[winnipegjets]

I am not familiar with legal stuff (I just avoid cops), and am an ex-Singaporeans, emigrated, but now working in Peesai (under E-pass). About this dual citizenship thing, I have come across a couple of Singaporeans who still travel with their Singapore passports, who also hold another country's passport (like USA, and Canada - yes - BOTH!). They just keep a low profile and do not talk about it openly. Sort of keep it hush-hush. Whatever reason, its is theirs to keep, I do not pry their private lives. So I don't ask. However, will be interested to know how as a US citizen, s/he avoids paying taxes for income earned. I know the States is really sticky when it comes to income tax. I recently joined an investment company in Singapore and had to fill a US form declaring that I am not a US citizen so I can be excused from submitting income tax returns form to the US department for income tax (I think it is called Form 8).

Cheers!

Those sinkee cum yanks don't know what trouble they will get into once IRA finds out of their unreported income. They could lose everything to Uncle Sam.

 

[nayr69sg]

I am not familiar with legal stuff (I just avoid cops), and am an ex-Singaporeans, emigrated, but now working in Peesai (under E-pass). About this dual citizenship thing, I have come across a couple of Singaporeans who still travel with their Singapore passports, who also hold another country's passport (like USA, and Canada - yes - BOTH!). They just keep a low profile and do not talk about it openly. Sort of keep it hush-hush. Whatever reason, its is theirs to keep, I do not pry their private lives. So I don't ask. However, will be interested to know how as a US citizen, s/he avoids paying taxes for income earned. I know the States is really sticky when it comes to income tax. I recently joined an investment company in Singapore and had to fill a US form declaring that I am not a US citizen so I can be excused from submitting income tax returns form to the US department for income tax (I think it is called Form 8).

Cheers!

Hi Agoraphobic, so do you pay tax to Canada? Or do you declare that Singapore is your economic centre and just pay Singapore tax?

 

[eatshitndie]

Those sinkee cum yanks don't know what trouble they will get into once IRA finds out of their unreported income. They could lose everything to Uncle Sam.

it's irs not ira. need to know info is here for international taxpayers.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers

 

[eatshitndie]

I am not familiar with legal stuff (I just avoid cops), and am an ex-Singaporeans, emigrated, but now working in Peesai (under E-pass). About this dual citizenship thing, I have come across a couple of Singaporeans who still travel with their Singapore passports, who also hold another country's passport (like USA, and Canada - yes - BOTH!). They just keep a low profile and do not talk about it openly. Sort of keep it hush-hush. Whatever reason, its is theirs to keep, I do not pry their private lives. So I don't ask. However, will be interested to know how as a US citizen, s/he avoids paying taxes for income earned. I know the States is really sticky when it comes to income tax. I recently joined an investment company in Singapore and had to fill a US form declaring that I am not a US citizen so I can be excused from submitting income tax returns form to the US department for income tax (I think it is called Form 8).

Cheers!

there's tax exemption for foreign income earned. if sinkie landlard makes over usd100k in rentals in sg, heshe is entitled to usd100,800 in exclusion. heshe will still need to file each year and pay tax for the (positive) difference. if heshe fails to file, he may get into trouble for tax evasion. no matter where heshe is heshe is still subject to u.s. tax laws and has to file for worldwide income.

 

[Charlie99]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/fabr...erican-son-will-not-serve-ns/222426544480028/

Singaporean nationality law
Wikipedia | Dual citizenship
Time Stamp - 15 September 2011

Dual citizenship is generally not recognised in Singapore, but is possible up to the age of 22. Such dual citizens may have acquired citizenship by birth in a foreign country, from a foreign citizen parent, or by naturalisation. Singaporean citizens who acquire citizenship of a foreign country after the age of 18 may lose Singaporean citizenship.[7] Foreigners who naturalise as Singaporean citizens are required to renounce all foreign citizenships[8]. Minors who are dual or multiple citizens by birth on foreign soil, by descent from foreign parents or by naturalisation are required to renounce all foreign citizenships by the age of 22 or may lose their Singaporean citizenship[9].

The prohibition of dual citizenship is a contentious issue in Singapore. As the economy becomes more globalized and Singaporeans more mobile, many Singaporeans have acquired foreign citizenships and reluctantly renounced their Singaporean citizenship even though they may feel a strong emotional attachment to Singapore. Immigrants who have been resident in Singapore for long periods and qualify for Singaporean citizenship may be reluctant to become naturalized citizens as it would mean giving up the citizenship of their native countries. Those who are dual citizens at birth may find it unjust that they are denied their birthright to citizenship of other countries where they were born or that of their parents. Male dual citizens are also not allowed to renounce Singaporean citizenship after the age of 11 and before attaining majority at the age of 21, such that they have to serve National Service at the age of 18 for a country to whom allegiance they may almost immediately abjure.[10]

 

[Charlie99]

Re: Dual Citizenship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship

Dual citizenship[edit]
The position of the Singapore Government is that dual citizenship is not allowed.[8] The laws regarding Singapore citizenship are found in the Constitution of Singapore.

A dual citizen may have acquired citizenship by birth in a foreign country, by descent from a foreign citizen parent, or by naturalisation. Singapore citizens who voluntarily and intentionally acquire citizenship of a foreign country after the age of 18 may be deprived of their Singapore citizenship by the Government.[9] Foreigners who naturalise as Singaporean citizens are required to renounce all foreign citizenships.[10] Persons who are born outside of Singapore and have at least one parent who is a Singapore citizen may register with a Singapore consulate within a year to acquire Singapore citizenship by descent. However, such persons must renounce their foreign citizenship, if any, before reaching 22 years of age. The Constitution of Singapore is silent on a Singapore citizen who acquired citizenship by birth and is a foreign citizen by descent. So long as such a person refrains from exercising the rights of foreign citizenship, the Government has no grounds for depriving him of his Singapore citizenship and he may hold on to dual citizenship.[11]

The prohibition of dual citizenship is a contentious issue in Singapore. As the economy becomes more globalized and Singaporeans more mobile, many Singaporeans have acquired foreign citizenships and reluctantly renounced their Singaporean citizenship even though they may feel a strong emotional attachment to Singapore. Immigrants who have been resident in Singapore for long periods and qualify for Singaporean citizenship may be reluctant to become naturalized citizens as it would mean giving up the citizenship of their native countries.

The government argues that authorising its citizens to concurrently hold foreign nationalities would be undesirable since, due to Singapore's geopolitical position, it cannot afford to allow its citizens multiple allegiances which may be compromised in times of national crisis. The government also fears that those without a second citizenship may feel aggrieved if dual citizens enjoy the benefits of citizenship during periods of wealth but leave the country in trying times.[12] Nevertheless, the government is open to the possibility of allowing dual citizenship if local and global circumstances demand so.[13]

 

[winnipegjets]

it's irs not ira. need to know info is here for international taxpayers.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers

I stand corrected. Eatshitndie is my hero now that Trump could be president on Dec 19.

 

[eatshitndie]

I stand corrected. Eatshitndie is my hero now that Trump could be president on Dec 19.

january lah, after inauguration. for now he is the president-elect.

 

[winnipegjets]

january lah, after inauguration. for now he is the president-elect.

If right-wingers say he is president, it must be so. Never dispute the 'facts' from right-wingers.

Can you imagine how right-wingers will react if the final count shows Clinton clinching the presidency?

Anyway, how white are you now? Skin colour close to angmo?

 

[eatshitndie]

If right-wingers say he is president, it must be so. Never dispute the 'facts' from right-wingers.

Can you imagine how right-wingers will react if the final count shows Clinton clinching the presidency?

Anyway, how white are you now? Skin colour close to angmo?

no, i don't have defective genes, unlike an albino.

 

[thetoileter]

Hi!
First,a few background info.
I am a JP citizen and a SG citizen.
I also have IC.
This year doing my Os and intend to leave SG forever this year after Os.
Apparently I am told by MINDEF that I can default NS by filling in the Deferment till 21 Form and applying Exit Permit AND Paying bond.
Here is how it works:
I leave at December 2017,JUST before 16.5 years old.
I study and stay in JP.
At Oct/Sept,I apply for exit perm and deferment form.
At 21,I denounce SG Citizenship.

However,there is a high chance that my application for deferment will be rejected,do I am seeing something else:
At 16.5 in JP, I get letter from MINDEF saying I need to serve.I ignore letter.
At 21, ???

I hope someone can give me info on this issue,thks!

 

[thetoileter]

Hi!
I hope that someone can give me advice and info on this matter.
(I do not trust MINDEF THAT well)
Here is my story:
Born in SG,have JP dad so JP citizen also
Study in SG,now taking my Os.(I also have Pink IC)
Want to leave this year Dec 2017,before 16.5 years old.
I do not care if i never return to SG.

MINDEF say this:
At Sept 2017,apply 2 things.
1:Application for deferment till 21 years old.
2.Exit Permit
Have to pay bond also as leaving for >3 months.
So...
1.Application approved(SUPER unlikely)
2.Denounce SG citizenship at 21
Legal to enter SG.

However,I know that I am lacking info especially for the denunciation bit.
Can anyone advice me on this info I have.
Thanks and have a nice day!

 

[Charlie99]

Based on the limited knowledge or little that I know, it appears that:
if you have been in Singapore, "benefitted from the SG education", then you will have to serve NS;
if you decide to apply and able to obtain an exit permit, and deferment from NS, which may require your parents to put up a bond of some monetary sum, then you may leave SG;
but if you do not return to serve NS, then MINDEF may forfeit that bond and the sum of money;
since you resided in SG, attended one of the govt. schools in SG until you were older than age 11 or 13, the SG govt. will probably not allow you to renounce (not "denounce") your SG citizenship when you attain age 21;
and if you did not serve NS, the SG govt may prosecute you in court;
and you may never be able to land in SG.

The other forummers may have more accurate info.

 

[winnipegjets]

Based on the limited knowledge or little that I know, it appears that:
if you have been in Singapore, "benefitted from the SG education", then you will have to serve NS;
if you decide to apply and able to obtain an exit permit, and deferment from NS, which may require your parents to put up a bond of some monetary sum, then you may leave SG;
but if you do not return to serve NS, then MINDEF may forfeit that bond and the sum of money;
since you resided in SG, attended one of the govt. schools in SG until you were older than age 11 or 13, the SG govt. will probably not allow you to renounce (not "denounce") your SG citizenship when you attain age 21;
and if you did not serve NS, the SG govt may prosecute you in court;
and you may never be able to land in SG.

The other forummers may have more accurate info.

Even if you don't live in sinkapore from birth but you obtain a sinkapore passport, you are considered to have 'benefitted from SG' and thus liable for NS.
However, the Sinkee government does NOT consider paying premium for sinkapore health insurance as 'benefitting from SG'. Ironical, isn't it?

 

[winnipegjets]

Hi!
I hope that someone can give me advice and info on this matter.
(I do not trust MINDEF THAT well)
Here is my story:
Born in SG,have JP dad so JP citizen also
Study in SG,now taking my Os.(I also have Pink IC)
Want to leave this year Dec 2017,before 16.5 years old.
I do not care if i never return to SG.

MINDEF say this:
At Sept 2017,apply 2 things.
1:Application for deferment till 21 years old.
2.Exit Permit
Have to pay bond also as leaving for >3 months.
So...
1.Application approved(SUPER unlikely)
2.Denounce SG citizenship at 21
Legal to enter SG.

However,I know that I am lacking info especially for the denunciation bit.
Can anyone advice me on this info I have.
Thanks and have a nice day!

If you do not care about returning to sinkapore, then leave SG at the end of the year ...go to Mudland, then fly out from there