CST's Wife Falling into 154th's Trap!

[Perspective]

Hi,

I'm in agreement with what Chau Ve Nist has said about our two hopeless Opposition MPs Chiam See Tong & Low Thia Khiang. For the past many years, both of them were actually "sleeping" through all the Parliamentary debates ( I know they occasionally "wayang" a bit by making some speeches in Parliament for the past ten years, BUT there was no REAL debate taking place between the Opposition & PAP Ministers. In fact, Lee Hsien Loong has to "invite" LTK to debate on the Mas Selemat issue).
Chau Ve Nist is also spot-on when he mentioned about the failure of the Oppostion parties in putting more effort to woo the vital Malay constituency.

Seriously, both Chiam & Low should consider disbanding their respective parties and join the PAP instead of masquerading as Pseudo Pappies.

The burden of the opposition cause is carried not just by those elected as opposition MPs, but everyone in the opposition. That's because how they act has an influence on the opposition's chances.

How Chiam and Low suck, they got elected. The other opposition could not get themselves elected.

 

[ray_of_hope]

Members of a radical opposition party, that wants to do away with caputal punishment, would always spend their time and energy preparing the ground to explain away why they have time and again been cold shouldered by the electorate.

 

[kingrant]

Some people here think that the PAP cares most for the Malays. Imho, this is bullshit. The PAP's aim is to keep the Malays quiet by hook or by crook so the PAP can wayang on as tho it has the Malay interests at heart. It doesnt really care for them in the heart; if it does, it is more out of political convenience. The PAP does not trust this whole island into becoming a Malay enclave, so it imported humongous hordes of PRCs and Ah Nehs to neutralise or even prevail over the prolific reproductivity of the Mats. The PAP for years kept down the Malays in the SAF because it didnt trust their loyalty. The PAP went into Malaysia to challenge Malay rights protected by UMNO, so that the chauvinistic PAP can have a shot at Central govt. There was never any genuine concern for the Malays. Just a wayang, and anything to keep the wayang going.

 

[elephanto]

Some people here think that the PAP cares most for the Malays. Imho, this is bullshit....There was never any genuine concern for the Malays. Just a wayang, and anything to keep the wayang going.

IMHO, this line of thinking leads nowhere. No government need have genuine concern for any particular racial community unless it is a racial party.

Asking is PAP genuinely for the Malays is as purposeless as asking are they genuinely for Chinese / for Indians etc. They can't be bothered - & the only concern is generic : for demographics, as a political consituency etc

If we continue this cynical line, then we are also insulting the integrity & memory of our 1st Yang DiPertuan Negara Enchik Yusoff Ishak who is staring at us daily from the dollar notes or pioneer PAP Malay Leaders like Ahmad Ibrahim & Othman Wok...

As for the 'openly secretive' easy importation of Chinese from PRC, I think the PAP govt see the maintenance of the 70:30 ratio of Chinese to Malays/others as a strategic sacred cow to be forever enshrined. How valid it is to maintain the status quo i don't know - of course the price to pay is to bear the insinuation of being chauvinistic.

I am really for Rajaratnam style idealism of Singaporean Singapore as enshrined in the national pledge which LKY dismissed as 'aspirational'.

People are cynical as far as PAP's support for the Malays is concerned because in part, PAP Malay Leadership have declined in stature & credibility over the years .... the decline started from Dr Ahmad Mattar (the running joke then was he is the busiest in cabinet by virtue of his 5 roles as a doctor, policeman, chauffer, MP & Minister, last I heard was the rumor that he is gay..), then that half-chinese Abdullah Tarmugi down to the present once-in-50-yrs Yacoob.

Along the way, the only PAP Malay leaders I have some regard for are people like Yatiman Yusof & ex-BH editor Md Zainudin (of course firebrand opp malay leader Jufri Mahmood would always condemn that 2 as 'traitors' to the malays..). An ongoing problem is the general lukewarm respect(?) the Malay community have for PAP Malay MPs. hence the AMP to the vanguard challenges in 1990 & 2000.

New generation PAP Malay MPs like Zaqy although high-achiever profession-wise sets off yuppie vibes more than the traditional Malay/Muslim aura of respectability as personified by Yusoff Ishak.

 

[Sideswipe]

It's be nice if we have some real figures to analysis our Malays voting support for oppositions parties sorted by gender, age, educational level, income...

because our speculation could be wrong, Just because the Malays u came across doesn't support oppositions doesn't mean most Malays don't.

 

[sampierre]

It's be nice if we have some real figures to analysis our Malays voting support for oppositions parties sorted by gender, age, educational level, income...

because our speculation could be wrong, Just because the Malays u came across doesn't support oppositions doesn't mean most Malays don't.

Sideswipe,

I'm very CERTAIN that in every contested ward, at least 70% of the Malays voted PAP. Those Oppostion candidates who took part in the 2006 GE have all the answers you want. Please ask Mr Goh Meng Seng for the details.

 

[sampierre]

LTK + CST 2 oppositions PK 81 PAP MPs - why bother.

You can debate to death with LHL in parliament but ultimately all bills are passed by a majority of 1 so it is pointless to debate much.
By extension of your simplistic logic, then the US Republicans are wasting their time debating the Healthcare issues with President Obama & his Democrats becos eventaully the Healthcare Bill got passed in favour of the Democrats??Similarly, the UK Conservatives are also wasting their time debating with Gordon Brown and his Labour MPs in the House of Commons??

and I don't think our oppositions failing to win more seats in parliament have anything to do with LTK, CST poor parliamentary performance because those two are awful in parliament but they kept winning successive elections. According to bros here, Steve Chia did a decent job as NCMP but that doesn't help him get elected. The average peasants doesn't know and are not interested in what happen inside parliament - how well our oppositions perform?

[/FONT

Certainly, Steve Chia's performance in Parliament was a few notches better than that of Low's and Chiam's, in my humble opinion. In fact, Steve improved on his % vote, from 35% in 2002 to 39% in 2006 GE. I could think of 3 possible reasons as to why he lost in CCK :

1) His opponent is a Minister of State ( major factor)
2) NSP failed to carry the Malay & other minorities' ground (major factor)
3) His scandal involving his maid (minor factor)


IMHO, the poor parliamentary performances of our two elected MPs have caused their respective party colleagues to lose in EVERY General Election.
Chiam & Low managed to retained their resdpective wards SIMPLY BECAUSE they are spending too much time on town council work, therby neglecting other aspects of political activities. This has the unintended (or intended?) consequence of affecting their party colleagues' chances in other wards.












3)

 

[Perspective]

The chap doesn't even know Chia contested under SDA not NSP, when NSP was still under SDA.

It's quite easy to see what this forummer is up to. Selling the message of opposition in Parliament = 100% blame + those outside Parliament = better = PAP 100% in Parliament.

 

[Sideswipe]

I'm very CERTAIN that in every contested ward, at least 70% of the Malays voted PAP. Those Oppostion candidates who took part in the 2006 GE have all the answers you want. Please ask Mr Goh Meng Seng for the details.

thanks for the figures.
anyway, 70% look bad but it just take a 20% swing to be 50-50

I'm be worried if it is 80%+...

You can debate to death with LHL in parliament but ultimately all bills are passed by a majority of 1 so it is pointless to debate much.By extension of your simplistic logic, then the US Republicans are wasting their time debating the Healthcare issues with President Obama & his Democrats becos eventaully the Healthcare Bill got passed in favour of the Democrats??Similarly, the UK Conservatives are also wasting their time debating with Gordon Brown and his Labour MPs in the House of Commons??

In US, UK and many countries, their lawmakers are independent and can vote against party bills. A strong opposition party in parliament can delay screening of bills with many antics by boycott or fighting like DPP in Taiwan. Most democratic govt understand the need for govt and oppositions MPs to sit down peacefully and debate country issues in the house. Our parliament with just 2 oppositions MPs don't work like this.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

It is odd to me that a person who has the faith in PAP the most thinks an opposition needs to go hardest on PAP the most.

Parties around the world take on their opponent depending on how they carry themselves and the political accepted culture set by them. That is why relations between the US Dems and Reps are not like Myanmar NLD and the military govt. If PAP is your best choice, the opposition is only seeing it from your view.

You might want to get your head checked.

Saved this daft "you might want to get your head checked' insult and stick to the issues. I said it is a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. If you understand this idiomatic expression, you will know that it is a choice between two evils and the Malay's interest would be best served by the lesser evil, i.e the PAP. It is no different from the Malaysian Chinese supporting the lesser devil, UMNO, instead of what they saw as the bigger devil, PAS, during Mahatir's reign.

Try convincing the Malays that their interest would be served by chauvinists like LTK and GMS or the one or two token Malays they have in their Chinese based parties and you will see what I mean.

Try convincing everyone that the PEP approach (Praise, Echo and Parrot the PAP ) by LKY godsons have improved the lives of Singaporeans. I know that the millions in MP allowance earned over the years (and future pensions) must have certainly improved the lives of LTK and CST. But how has the lives of ordinary Singaporeans been improved by these two PEP politicians?

Between an E-grade PEP politician and that of a PAP politician, you might as well settle for the real thing.

 

[cleareyes]

In the old forum, I predicted that James Gomez would be dropped after LKY's dogwhistling to LTK about James Gomez.

In the old forum???

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So you are an outright Chee and SDP supporter afterall.

Your understanding and definition of a hunger strike so differs from that of how international politicans and activitist were to have.

makes me wonder, with supporters like you, how far would SDP really go?

 

[cleareyes]

As strange as it may sound but because I am extremely sympathetic to the plight of the indigenous habitants of this island, the Malays, the party that I hope will continue to win decisively and continue to govern is the PAP.

It is not the best of choices but given a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, I think the current interest of the Malays would be best served by the PAP and not Chinese-based political parties led by chang-huayi chauvinists like LTK and GMS.

I am sure the Malays will be astute enough to see a Chinese chauvinist when they see one even as these racists and obtuse chauvinists suddenly discover their (the Malays) existence, wrap themselves up in the cloak of multiracialism and fall all over themselves to "help" and "highlight" the plight of the Malays in the hope that they can secure a seat in Parliament.

Running out of debating points and now playing t5he racist card

You are more UMNO than UMNO itself.

 

[cleareyes]

What is it about the Malays that the best party to serve them is the PAP?

What is it about the PAP that serves the Malays best?

How do you know?

He is playing the racist Chinese vs Malay card as he had nothing else to argue about.

Drawing in WP in a SDP-SPP crap is bad enough, now drawing in Chinese vs Malay ?????

Its a diversion as he nolonger have the ability to continue.

 

[sampierre]

The chap doesn't even know Chia contested under SDA not NSP, when NSP was still under SDA.

It's quite easy to see what this forummer is up to. Selling the message of opposition in Parliament = 100% blame + those outside Parliament = better = PAP 100% in Parliament.

Perspective,

Whether Steve Chia contested under NSP or under SDA is NOT the issue here.
The point is our Opposition parties have ceded the Malay ground to the PAP.
Which means that in a marginal seat like Choa Chu Kang, even if Steve Chia managed to get 55% of the Chinese vote, he will still lose to PAP becos the Malays and other minorities are solidlly behind the PAP.

I am of the opinion that the reason why Workers' Party & SPP cannot expand their Parliamentary power of 1 seat each is BECAUSE both LTK & CST are spending too much of their time and party resources in managing their respective wards that they forgot how to debate in Parliament and neglected the other aspects of political activities to the detriment of their party colleagues who contested in other wards and lost. Sooner or later, these frustrated party members will pack up and join other parties.

As ELECTED Oppostion Members of Parliament and also leaders of their respective parties, I think both Chiam & Low must shoulder most of the blame for the poor state of the Opposition in terms of parliamentary seats.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

Your understanding and definition of a hunger strike so differs from that of how international politicans and activitist were to have.

"International politicans and activitist"??? Like the other lockeliberal chap, you obviously have no clue as to what a hunger strike is.

What do you think of this UN led hunger strike (see below) with no one having any intention of dying at all? Does this meet your "international politicans and activitist" standards or that other ignorant chap who claim that you must plan to die so that a hunger strike can be considered genuine?

For fuck sake, please learn to use google, your keyboard and mouse to get information. Don't just vomit out rubbish in a strident fashion without knowing what you are talking about or without being able to provide any credible source for whatever rubbish you spew out.


http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/english/detail/85536.html

FAO calls for world hunger strike against hunger
11/11/2009
The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) on Wednesday called for a day-long worldwide hunger strike against chronic hunger.


Jacques Diouf
FAO Director-General Jacques Diouf urged everyone in the world who wants to show solidarity with the one billion hungry people to go on hunger strike next Saturday or Sunday.

The head of FAO said he will personally begin a 24-hour fast on Saturday morning on the eve of the World Summit on Food Security scheduled to start on Monday next week.

The meeting has been called to agree on immediate action to reverse the situation of over one billion people who live in chronic hunger and to build momentum to end this scourge of hunger and malnutrition.

Heads of state and government of the agency's 192 members have been invited to attend and Jacques Diouf hopes that there would be as many participants as the last Summit in 2002.

Jocelyne Sambira, United Nations
(duration

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

He is playing the racist Chinese vs Malay card as he had nothing else to argue about.

Drawing in WP in a SDP-SPP crap is bad enough, now drawing in Chinese vs Malay ?????

Its a diversion as he nolonger have the ability to continue.

I may be able to (and more than willing) to learn something from you if you are willing to use your grey matter to come up with something a little more substantive than "Oh, you must be Chee/SDP supporter" or "Oh you are playing racist card" or "He no longer have the ability to continue" dribble.

I would be most grateful if you could please save such kiddie remarks for kiddie forums. Thanks.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

Running out of debating points and now playing t5he racist card

You are more UMNO than UMNO itself.

Until it changed its name in May 1967, PKMS was known as UMNO Singapore. It remains "UMNO" in its objective despite its change of name.

So I suggest you don't slag UMNO off as "racist" since CST has already teamed up with UMNO Singapore under the SDA umbrella. Otherwise you may have to start asking CST why he is in bed with a "racist" party.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chau

Even in the excerpt you posted, its called a twenty four hour fast. You seem to be saying that a HUNGER STRIKE is only about publicity well if that is your view then you have confused means , ends and side effects, the means is the hunger strike, the side effect is publicity and the end is a political goal. THE END result is not PUBLICITY itself though for a character like Dr Chee it probably rightly describes him, a PR slut and publicity for publicities sake.

I am sorry but for me a hunger strike is defined by Bobby Sands and the PIRA. All I can say is if Dr Chee had called it a protest fast we would not be having this discussion, but he did use a hunger strike as a form of disobedience. and he cheated during it by taking liquid glucose, which is also used in force feeding TRUE NON partial Hunger Strikers. Suffice it to say he also did not have the moral courage to start a hunger strike and to end it when his life was at RISK NEAR RISK etc etc or near death. All in all a picture of a publicity media hungry slut.



Locke

 

[kingrant]

Obviously the person to whom my questions were directed doesnt have an answer or is avoiding an answer to make us all understand clearly his POV.

I think that for so long the Malay community has been 'entertaining' the PAP because they are mighty and powerful, and not one to make an enemy of. But once there was sufficient nucleus for a bolder Malay leadership to emerge, you can see from the example of AMP that they do have their own minds, and not have to ingratiate the PAP or any of its pretender orgs.

He is playing the racist Chinese vs Malay card as he had nothing else to argue about.

Drawing in WP in a SDP-SPP crap is bad enough, now drawing in Chinese vs Malay ?????

Its a diversion as he nolonger have the ability to continue.

What is it about the Malays that the best party to serve them is the PAP?

What is it about the PAP that serves the Malays best?

How do you know?

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

Dear Chau Even in the excerpt you posted, its called a twenty four hour fast.

Suggest you write to the UN. Tell them you are not happy with them for not knowing what a hunger strike is. Teach them the diference between "hunger strikes" and "fast" and ask them to correct their mistakes. To make things easy for you, here's their error-riddled report again with the UN hunger strike "mistakes" in red.

http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/en...ail/85536.html

FAO calls for world hunger strike against hunger
11/11/2009
The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) on Wednesday called for a day-long worldwide hunger strike against chronic hunger.


Jacques Diouf
FAO Director-General Jacques Diouf urged everyone in the world who wants to show solidarity with the one billion hungry people to go on hunger strike next Saturday or Sunday.

The head of FAO said he will personally begin a 24-hour fast on Saturday morning on the eve of the World Summit on Food Security scheduled to start on Monday next week.

The meeting has been called to agree on immediate action to reverse the situation of over one billion people who live in chronic hunger and to build momentum to end this scourge of hunger and malnutrition.

Heads of state and government of the agency's 192 members have been invited to attend and Jacques Diouf hopes that there would be as many participants as the last Summit in 2002.

Jocelyne Sambira, United Nations

You seem to be saying that a HUNGER STRIKE is only about publicity well if that is your view then you have confused means , ends and side effects, the means is the hunger strike, the side effect is publicity and the end is a political goal. THE END result is not PUBLICITY itself though for a character like Dr Chee it probably rightly describes him, a PR slut and publicity for publicities sake.

I am sorry but for me a hunger strike is defined by Bobby Sands and the PIRA. All I can say is if Dr Chee had called it a protest fast we would not be having this discussion, but he did use a hunger strike as a form of disobedience. and he cheated during it by taking liquid glucose, which is also used in force feeding TRUE NON partial Hunger Strikers. Suffice it to say he also did not have the moral courage to start a hunger strike and to end it when his life was at RISK NEAR RISK etc etc or near death. All in all a picture of a publicity media hungry slut. Locke

I am not discussing with you. I am telling you that you are clueless and that you are vomiting out nonsense and that is why you have been unable to substantiate your nonsense with credible or expert sources. What you state is worth zilch if you can't back the rubbish you spout with facts, figures or with credible sources.

Calling Chee "cheat", "slut" is worth zilch to me. I have no fucking interest in your or anyone's opinion of him. If I were, I would just tune in to the original, i.e. LKY's and the PAP's opinion of him. This is because the "opinion" you spout about him is not something original that you had to work hard at coming up with but is instead, nothing more than a cheap regurgitation of what they say about him.

What I am interested in is whether you can support the rubbish you spout with facts, figure or credible sources.

Cheers.

PS: Please don't forget to write to the UN. Tell them that you are in the midst of an argument about hunger strikes in Sammyboy Kopitiam and that you want the objectives and rules of hunger strikes changed so that you can come out of it without looking like a cock. Of course, don't use the colloquial "cock" when you write to them. They won't understand. Just use the word "stupid" in place of "cock".

PPS: And don't forget to tell the UN to correct their mistake and change all their "hunger strike" reference to "fast". Identify yourself as the hunger strike expert from Sammyboy Kopitiam forum and they will happily oblige.