Crumbling of Singapore?

[sleaguepunter]

I think LHL is a good man..but he is a poor leader. he wont last when LKY is gone. That's sad..he shdnt even be PM now. let the best man be PM and we shd be ok

u need to have your brain check. lhl downright ruthless, will do anything to get his way. as for being a poor leader, i not sure how u define a good leader, but he still manage to lead the pap to electoral victory despite having only elderly attending pap rallies and manage to get rid of his political opponent with a borrow knife, of course with some help from his dad's repent comments.

if he really want singapore to prosper, his bed partner would not have control TH at all.

 

[Leongsam]

Which begets the question,are foreigners brought into Singapore to fight our enemies?Why would they need to do that?Would you migrate to NZ if you haveto fight Aussies for future survival?

Does any of your statements remotely make any sense?

The term "fight" isn't appropriate. The importation of Chinese Nationals is not for the purpose of doing battle. It's to maintain racial balances. I thought you'd be aware of this.

Many countries do this covertly. Maori in NZ have alleged numerous times that the govt lets in Asians in order to stop Maori from gaining a bigger foot hold in the political process.

 

[Fook Seng]

yes, it is not shooting off the cuff when LKY said we may one day rejoin Mudland.

Or before that, Singapore will die a natural death due to dwindling population.

The dwindling of population is a myth. There are many ways to reverse TFR and even if we need FT, we need a much smaller number than right now. GDP growth founded on population growth is like a cancer. You need to keep feeding population to sustain the growth. It is a bubble developing and eventually it will burst when the infrastructures give way at the seams. Merger with Mudland is unlikely given the development directions of the two countries over the past 46 years. Even the old man now admits it is not possible. Whether Singapore will crumble totally is a relative issue. Almost every country in the world is faced with seemingly insolvable issues. Countries in the Eurozone except for just a handful are in for backruptcy or severe austerity for their people and this is as early as next year. The US has to bear the burden of repaying its debts over the next 10 years. OZ will find it increasingly more and more difficult to depend on commodities to prop up its economy as the global economy weakens. NZ with its agricultural economy, in my opinion, will be less affected by all these, provided mother nature does not deal shocks in the form of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, Auckland being at the centre of a volcanic field of some 50 volcanoes and Lake Taupo is a super volcano on the scale of Lake Toba and Yellow Stone. So if you say Singapore will crumble, I say it is relative. Relative to today, yes. Relative to the rest of the world, don't think so. I am a strong believer in change, and change is a constant as far as Singapore is concerned even if it means a change of government.

 

[Nice-Gook]

It would be great if the environment was benign but the it's a sad fact that Militant Islam is a cancer which can suck the vitality out of any nation. That's why it needs to be aggressively countered in whatever way possible.

Cancer is treatable and even curable so nobody should give up hope. As long as there is still life, there's a future.

However, your statement that a nation only thrives during peacetime is rather naive. The USA made its biggest strides of progress during the cold war era. The Cuban Missile crisis made the Americans more determined than ever to dominate space and this lead to the moon landing in 1969.

In the SEA context, Singapore reaped huge benefits from the vietnam war.

Sure cancer is treatable but show me how many inflicted with cancer are thriving?

Again you contradict yourself Sam.....because you are talking about superlatives like will power ,determination and etc.This does not exist in vacuum.Neither can these be bought by throwing money at it.These are sentiments that is beneath every patriots skins.All uncle Sam,(not you ah) had to do is beat the drums and people will line up to die for the country.That;s how US won the cold war..

How can PAP appeal to our patriotism when they are selling us to foreigners?Besides, why didn't you stay back to fight on PAP bequest?Don't you practice what you preach?

 

[Leongsam]

Yes, until a govt cares for the least and the poorest in the country, it is not a good govt.

If that's you're definition of a good govt, then I doubt very much if the PAP will ever meet your criteria.

My definition of a good govt is one that interferes as little as possible with the lives of the citizens.

In my books, a good govt is one that.

1) Is able to defend the nation from external threats.

2) Is strong in law and order and education.

3) Is decisive in its policies.

4) Rewards hard work and punishes laziness and reflects this in its tax structure.

Once this is in place, I can take care of all the other aspects of my life.

 

[TracyTan866]

I tend to agree with u that calling them totally incompetent is somewhat strong. But if u know where Tracy is coming from where many are left behind by the PAP policies, u would be able to understand why she feels so strongly against the PAP. And there are many out there who is like TracyTan. My personal view is not so much a question of competency but rather that the PAP is now completely motivated by greed. Greed in the sense of enriching the reserves at all costs (which means spending as little as possible out of the reserves as well). As a result, all policies made by the PAP be it for business objectives or social objectives take reference from this goal of accumulating more and more reserves. The whole PAP mindset is that now, sadly.

I related this case before:

I visited a single mother, 40s, with a Sec 3 daughter staying at East Coast GRC. She was sick with heart problems, kidney malfunction, and half blind. She had to do regular kidney dialysis. So she cant work. FSC/CDC gave her free rental, free utilities and $300 per month and her daughter received $30 for school pocket fund.

After two years, FSC/CDC told her that they had to terminate the $300 as they cant continue, despite her condition remaining the same. She went to see her MP which was DPM, Jayakumar, at the MPS. They wrote an appeal letter on her behalf to FSC/CDC. But the reply was "sorry, cant help after two years". Is this what MCYS shd do to a sick, single Singaporean mother? Her MP told her that he cant do anything as FSC/CDc had replied. Hello...DPM cant do anything when he agreed that she needed help? It doesnt make sense to me that the pap DPM agreed she needed help but was overriden by a staff from FSC/CDC...the support was terminated by FSC/CDC

This may be an one off case...but to me...it doesnt speak well of the pap, the DPM and MCYS...

so dont be taken in by the pap's talk that no one will be left behind

 

[Fook Seng]

given today context, we cannot reverse the language policy to promote malay so that we can "unite" the country. The only way is to unite it to speak English. However, we do that - there is considerable resistance from the Chinese population. Ng did that and recall the outlash? in fact, he merely took a little step and immediately the population bashed him back.

I don't think the Chinese population is against the learning of English. In fact many Chinese parents send their children to tuition schools precisely to improve their English. What NEH did appeared self-serving, taking care of his own kind and in the process risked lowering the standard of the second language.

 

[Nice-Gook]

The term "fight" isn't appropriate. The importation of Chinese Nationals is not for the purpose of doing battle. It's to maintain racial balances. I thought you'd be aware of this.

Many countries do this covertly. Maori in NZ have alleged numerous times that the govt lets in Asians in order to stop Maori from gaining a bigger foot hold in the political process.

Don't make me laugh Sam.

You mean by increasing our population by few more millions by importing foreigners balance the racial percentage?!!!!!!!!

Sam,are you drinking some cheap whiskey?

Besides,how does our racial balance deters foreign invasion?

Will you please stop that godforsaken cheap whiskey.

 

[freedalas]

i take the example of treadmill...reality is the speed on the treadmill is getting faster and faster, more and more will slip off and fell on the ground. Inevitable trend in growing economy / capitalism.

the debate is then, should we slow the treadmill to pick up these stragglers or we should continue running and have some sort of aid to help those get back onto running. PAP is doing the second one...they assumed they could administer band-aid to those who fell off and they can be sent to continue running.

However, as the speed increase, and as more fell off, more than band-aid is needed. And PAP does not want to go down the path of welfarism. But i reckon, it will be some time down the road that certain degree of welfarism will be introduced...

A very good analogy that provides forummers a good appreciation of the actual situation in S'pore. Just to add, it is not that the PAP do not know quite a number of S'poreans had fell off the threadmill. Many of the MPS during their Meet The People session would have known that and to be fair to them, I believe that some, if they had their way, would want to arender first aid. But the whole problem is that the Old Man would never want to hear of it. To him, a single strip of band-aid is equivalent to opening up the floodgates of welfarism already. He of course takes jsuch a view because that means spending from the reserves. He would have none of that as he's absolutely posses with the accumulation of reserves. So any actions had to take this as a reference so much so that the PAP were very slow in coming to the aid of those who had fallen off not to mention preventing more from falling off.

Just a side-point which I thought may interest forummers. There are quite a number of successful people who have actively involved in charity works and funds etc. They do so voluntarily and a number donate big sums out of their own pockets. At the same time, these people seen for themselves how unwilling and how little the govt is helping these people. The criteria to qualify for govt aid is insurmountable. The result is that in the last GE, many of them, though well-to-do and enjoying life, voted against the PAP for what they see as abdication of its social responsibility.

 

[Leongsam]

Sure cancer is treatable but show me how many inflicted with cancer are thriving?

Again you contradict yourself Sam.....because you are talking about superlatives like will power ,determination and etc.This does not exist in vacuum.Neither can these be bought by throwing money at it.These were sentiments that is beneth every patriots skins.All uncle Sam,(not you ah) had to do is beat the drums and people will line up to die for the country.That;s how US won the cold war..

My neighbour has prostate cancer. He's still a very successful businessman. I go cycling with a guy who beat lymphoma. Your own PM beat cancer. Lance Armstrong won 7 tours after beating cancer. Steve Jobs did his best work when he knew he had limited time. My Aunt beat cancer at 45 and lived till 87. She was a successful real estate agent till well into her 60s. Surely you don't just curl up and wait for death. Nobody should do that and neither should a country.

How can PAP appeal to our patriotism when they are selling us to foreigners?Besides, why didn't you stay back to fight on PAP bequest?Don't you practice what you preach?

I did my part for Singapore... 2.5 years plus 13 in camps.. froze in Taiwan, almost died in the jungles of Brunei.... never asked for a single deferment. Surely my time has come to pass the baton to the next generation.

 

[TracyTan866]

Just a side-point which I thought may interest forummers. There are quite a number of successful people who have actively involved in charity works and funds etc. They do so voluntarily and a number donate big sums out of their own pockets. At the same time, these people seen for themselves how unwilling and how little the govt is helping these people. The criteria to qualify for govt aid is insurmountable. The result is that in the last GE, many of them, though well-to-do and enjoying life, voted against the PAP for what they see as abdication of its social responsibility.

I am glad that you know such things are happening in SG.

 

[TracyTan866]

Don't make me laugh Sam.

You mean by increasing our population by few more millions by importing foreigners balance the racial percentage?!!!!!!!!

Sam,are you drinking some cheap whiskey?

Besides,how does our racial balance deters foreign invasion?

Will you please stop that godforsaken cheap whiskey.

hahahaha..I agree totally with you.

even if it balances racial percentage, such foreigners bring along with their idiosyncrasies, social and cultural differences. so better to have these foreigners or not to have these foreigners?

 

[Fook Seng]

looking at life in SG as a whole, do you think Singapore is well managed by the present pap leaders?

Do you think that the pap leaders are leading SG on the right path? will Singaporeans be better off in future than we are now?

You define management as the entirety of governance. I broke governance into two parts, one is vision and direction setting and the other is the carrying out of programs. I say there is no argument on the high standard of program management of Singapore, started by the Govt and implemented by the people. I also believe the present govt is not the sole keeper of this excellence which is a cultural thing. I think it is in the area of vision and direction setting that it falls short in a few areas.

 

[Nice-Gook]

My neighbour has prostate cancer. He's still a very successful businessman. I go cycling with a guy who beat lymphoma. Your own PM beat cancer. Lance Armstrong won 7 tours after beating cancer. Steve Jobs did his best work when he knew he had limited time. My Aunt beat cancer at 45 and lived till 87. She was a successful real estate agent till well into her 60s. Surely you don't just curl up and wait for death. Nobody should do that and neither should a country.



I did my part for Singapore... 2.5 years plus 13 in camps.. froze in Taiwan, almost died in the jungles of Brunei.... never asked for a single deferment. Surely my time has come to pass the baton to the next generation.

Are you saying that far more people can beat cancer than cancer beats people and by that token you justify that even if Singapore is cancerous PAP still made it thriving?

Are you again saying that your patriotism ends so long as you finished your NS liability?....so where does your patriotism now lies?To the nation that mothered you or the nation that adopted you?NZ or Singapore lah.

Which begets the question that women who are Singaporean must be unpatriotic because it follows you flawed logic that they did not serve NS..

 

[TracyTan866]

You define management as the entirety of governance. I broke governance into two parts, one is vision and direction setting and the other is the carrying out of programs. I say there is no argument on the high standard of program management of Singapore, started by the Govt and implemented by the people. I also believe the present govt is not the sole keeper of this excellence which is a cultural thing. I think it is in the area of vision and direction setting that it falls short in a few areas.

wow..detailed insights..thanks

 

[TracyTan866]

Are you saying that far more people can beat cancer than cancer beats people and by that token you justify that even if Singapore is cancerous PAP still made it thriving?

Are you again saying that your patriotism ends so long as you finished your NS liability?....so where does your patriotism now lies?To the nation that mothered you or the nation that adopted you?NZ or Singapore lah.

good points and thoughtful questions

 

[Leongsam]

You mean by increasing our population by few more millions by importing foreigners balance the racial percentage?!!!!!!!!

Sam,are you drinking some cheap whiskey?

Besides,how does our racial balance deters foreign invasion?

Will you please stop that godforsaken cheap whiskey.

You don't seem to have a grasp of the situation. Maintaining the racial balance has nothing to do with deterring a foreign invasion. It's to stop the muslims from taking over from within.

This isn't a hypothetical scenario. It has actually happened with councils in the UK. As the percentage of Muslims increases in any region, so to will be the pressure they place on doing things in accordance with their way of life.

I can still get bacon at Mcdonalds. Can you?... and this is only with a 15% muslim population. I seriously encourage you to do some extensive research on this issue. The threat is very real.

If it's not dealt with head on, cheap whiskey might be quite hard to get a hold of.

 

[Nice-Gook]

hahahaha..I agree totally with you.

even if it balances racial percentage, such foreigners bring along with their idiosyncrasies, social and cultural differences. so better to have these foreigners or not to have these foreigners?

Let's give Sam enough rope.

 

[TracyTan866]

I also believe the present govt is not the sole keeper of this excellence which is a cultural thing. I think it is in the area of vision and direction setting that it falls short in a few areas.

I agree that the pap is not the sole keeper of excellence as it is still learning and grasping to know best and excellent practices it can learn from

 

[Fook Seng]

Don't make me laugh Sam.

You mean by increasing our population by few more millions by importing foreigners balance the racial percentage?!!!!!!!!

Sam,are you drinking some cheap whiskey?

Besides,how does our racial balance deters foreign invasion?

Will you please stop that godforsaken cheap whiskey.

I think Sam is right here but the percentage that got raised is not the Chinese population but the Indian population. Their number is smaller, therefore less obvious.