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[COVID-19 Virus] The Sinkies are fucked Thread.

kaninabuchaojibye

Alfrescian
Loyal
man on ventilator double lung transplant b


Blake Bargatze in hospital on July 14, 2021. Blake Bargatze/Cheryl Nuclo
  • A Georgia man had to get a double lung transplant after he got COVID-19 in April.
  • Blake Bargatze had no underlying health issues but was not vaccinated before he fell ill.
  • The 25-year-old told Insider the virus made his lungs look like "chewed up pieces of bubblegum."
  • Visit Insider's homepage for more stories.
A 25-year-old man who had to get a double lung transplant after falling ill with COVID-19 in April said the virus made his lungs look like "chewed up pieces of bubblegum."

Blake Bargatze from Georgia, who had no underlying health issues, was admitted to ICU earlier this year after he fell seriously ill from the coronavirus.
During his stay, his condition worsened and doctors told him to survive, he needed a new set of lungs. In June, he got a double lung transplant.
The 25-year-old told Insider he was shocked at how quickly COVID-19 attacked his body.

"It just ate away my lungs," he said. "They literally looked up like chewed up pieces of bubblegum by the time they took them out. They were riddled with holes. I was just fortunate enough to not have multiple organ failures."

Bargatze is among the few people to have successfully received a double lung transplant as a result of the coronavirus, which has so far killed more than 687,000 Americans, according to a tracker by Johns Hopkins University.

He believes he contracted the virus at a concert in Florida back in March, which he now regrets attending. Although he was wearing a mask, he was not vaccinated at the time.

This is in part because he wasn't eligible for a vaccination yet, but also because he wanted to wait and was worried about the side effects, according to his mother.

She told WXIA: "He wanted to wait until it was out like 10 years or so, kind of like a lot of the population wants it to be out longer."
But now, the 25-year-old is urging other people to get their vaccinations.

"I'm trying to make people become more aware of what realistically can happen with this virus. It's just not worth the risk," he told Insider.
He also said that many people are still being "reckless" even as the highly infectious Delta variant continues to cause a rise in hospitalizations, especially among those who are unvaccinated.

But life is looking up for the 25-year-old, who hopes he can soon return to his favorite hobbies, including fishing and playing pool with his friends. He is due to go back to work this week, something he says is "a huge achievement" for him.

Although he is still taking 50 pills a day, Bargate is happy to be walking again and is "grateful to be alive." He has since also gotten both his COVID-19 vaccinations.

A GoFundMe page has since been set up to help Bargatze's family pay for his medical bills
 

syed putra

Alfrescian
Loyal
5000 cases a day?

What's the positivity rate of the tests for that to happen?

Either they ramp up testing or the positivity rate must be 4 times what it is now? I doubt it will hit that high.
They have been keeping the lid closed hoping the vaccine will sort things out. But fatalities are rising so it sort of got things out of control.
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I just watched a video of Lawrence Wong and Ong Yi Kung explaining why they had to impose 2 pax restrictions.

KNN....these 2 are bloody experts of talking cock!
In hokkien, it is called Self talking Self "Song". If they can't cope with 1000 covit cases, why boasting loudly about living with endemic when cases were merely about 100? Now they talked about ramping up resources to cope with 5000 cases, and when the cases hit 3000 they will retract their earlier stunt and start blaming Singaporeans left right center to defract their own messy policies.
 

Peace Maker

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Loyal
Even with the present uprising figures of covid infected people, how many are seriously sick? If only those with existing illness got sick, then it will not be a big problem. We just need to be patient to hang on a while longer. Soon will just need to take annual booster jabs. There will be a rainbow after a heavy rain. Good times will come back & soon the covid 19 will be history.
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Even with the present uprising figures of covid infected people, how many are seriously sick? If only those with existing illness got sick, then it will not be a big problem. We just need to be patient to hang on a while longer. Soon will just need to take annual booster jabs. There will be a rainbow after a heavy rain. Good times will come back & soon the covid 19 will be history.
If not seriously sick, why asked those people to self Quarantine and caused so many confusion in protocol?
 

pvtpublic

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Loyal
Kenneth Mak is more like maybe CEO of the Premier League. Like Richard Masters.

Then OYK is like the Executive Officer of English FA , Mark Bullingham

The equivalent of football club managers might be the various hospital chairmen of medical board or CEOs.

So KM dunno lah. DMS is actually not so close to ground one.
doc, what are your thoughts on antivirals to treat covid? will it be more effective than vaccines?
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
doc, what are your thoughts on antivirals to treat covid? will it be more effective than vaccines?
I have no idea. Not my field. I dont treat covid.

So far havent anything though.

I dont call them vaccine anymore. More like immunotherapy.

Oh there was some studies showing Cannabis (CBD) inhibits covid 19 replication and promote immunity. Point is if you search for evidence ro6 support what you believe. You will find it. Lol!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7987002/


https://www.healtheuropa.eu/cannabis-and-covid-19-patients-new-insights-from-israel/105409/
 

red amoeba

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Blank cheque wong and rodent faced Ong are solely responsible for bringing in the delta virus that lead to today’s shit. What 80% immunity is all fucking nonsense. Now what ? Ban all 60yo from going out to keep mortality rates down ? It’s not even opening no other countries in the region open up to Singapore.
 

pvtpublic

Alfrescian
Loyal
I have no idea. Not my field. I dont treat covid.

So far havent anything though.

I dont call them vaccine anymore. More like immunotherapy.

Oh there was some studies showing Cannabis (CBD) inhibits covid 19 replication and promote immunity. Point is if you search for evidence ro6 support what you believe. You will find it. Lol!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7987002/


https://www.healtheuropa.eu/cannabis-and-covid-19-patients-new-insights-from-israel/105409/
I was referring to this doc:
https://www.ft.com/content/48cf11f5-9588-4487-b262-f6f26e901ec2

Antiviral pill: How close are we to a drug to treat Covid?

Scientists seek breakthrough in effort to ease virus symptoms and speed up recovery times

September 27, 2021 4:00 am by Sarah Neville in London and Nikou Asgari in New York

With coronavirus vaccines being administered worldwide, scientists are preparing a new weapon against the disease that has claimed more than 4.5m lives: an effective antiviral medication to treat the worst symptoms.

While vaccines aim to prevent infection, a pill that sped up recovery times and could be taken at home would be a significant development, providing treatment for people who are infected and potentially reducing the burden on hospitals.

With autumn under way in the northern hemisphere and fears of rising cases in colder months, pharmaceutical companies are locked in a race to achieve a breakthrough.

But there are questions over how much of a difference antiviral treatments can make, and how quickly, to patients with Covid-19, a potentially fatal disease with symptoms including a continuous cough, breathlessness and a high temperature.

How do antiviral drugs work?
The current generation of Covid-19 vaccines focuses on generating antibodies to neutralise the spike protein that the virus uses to enter human cells. With antiviral treatments, scientists must identify how to stop the virus from replicating.

One of the challenges faced by researchers is that antiviral drugs must be able to keep up with the evolving virus.

Recommended
Covid-19 vaccine tracker: the global race to vaccinate
“They’re not vulnerable to a lot of variant changes that you might see with the spike protein,” said Nicholas Kartsonis, senior vice-president of clinical research in infectious diseases at US pharmaceutical company Merck. It means that the virus cannot evade antiviral drugs in the way that it can vaccines.

“These sort of antivirals are really targeting the replication process of the virus itself,” he added.

Who is working on them?
Merck’s tablet, called molnupiravir, would be taken within five days of Covid-19 symptoms emerging, twice a day for five days. It is in phase-3 trials and the company expects to have data by the end of this year. Merck has also started household trials of molnupiravir in people who do not have coronavirus but are living with someone who does.

US pharmaceutical group Pfizer is also carrying out late-stage trials of its antiviral tablet. The company is studying two antivirals — a tablet that can be taken at home and an intravenous infusion for patients suffering from more serious disease. The medicines work by blocking the activity of the Covid protease, an enzyme that the virus needs in order to replicate in the body.

An inhaled interferon treatment being produced by a UK drug discovery company, Synairgen, has also emerged as a potentially promising approach to treating the disease.

Richard Marsden, the company’s chief executive, said one of the main ways viruses evaded the immune system was “to suppress the production of interferon beta”, which plays a significant role in activating the wider immune response and preventing a virus from replicating. “All we’re doing is putting . . . this protein, that everyone makes, back into the battleground, and the battleground that matters is in the lungs,” added Marsden.

Who would receive antiviral drugs?
Recipients might include immunosuppressed people for whom Covid-19 vaccines do not work, or a defined group — such as a school, care home or football team — in which they could be used prophylactically to forestall a wider outbreak.

The trick, however, would be timing as such products needed to be given at the first sign of symptoms, said Steve Bates, chief executive of the UK’s BioIndustry Association.

Bates said he would be “unsurprised” to see at least one antiviral drug ready to be rolled out in the coming weeks, potentially under an “emergency use authorisation”, through which products yet to win full regulatory approval can be made available during a public health crisis.

But Bates, a former member of Britain’s vaccines task force, suggested mass deployment across the UK population was unlikely.

“I think of them as more specialist tools, probably used in particular groups of the population or at a particular point in an outbreak,” he added.

Efficacy levels might be far lower than the public had come to expect from the vaccines, Bates warned. “Because of this problem of when you administer them, it’s almost impossible to get a really good result statistically. And if you get an antiviral that works at 40 per cent, I think that will be brilliant,” he said.

However, Eric Topol, director of the California-based Scripps Research Translational Institute, said that, provided antivirals were “highly effective and safe, and inexpensive or provided freely, I think they will be quite widely used”. This would particularly apply if the treatment was available as “a pill, oral route medication or an inhalation as opposed to an injection under the skin”, he added.

What have trials shown?
Although multiple Covid vaccines have been authorised, US group Gilead’s infusion remdesivir, which is administered intravenously, is the only antiviral treatment that has been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) — despite its uncertain benefit to patients. Scientists at the World Health Organization say the drug has “no meaningful effect” on mortality or the need for ventilation.

Kartsonis at Merck said antiviral drugs must first be studied, and the correct dose calculated, on healthy individuals before being trialled on Covid-19 patients. That, he said, partly explained why only one antiviral treatment had been approved.

He noted that antivirals must be absorbed, metabolised and excreted correctly but vaccine makers “don’t have to worry about those other characteristics because they don’t really apply”.

In Europe, Swiss pharma company Roche is working with Atea Pharmaceuticals on an oral antiviral it believes has dual potential: to treat people with Covid-19 and prevent illness in people who have been exposed to the virus.

Initial results in hospitalised patients with moderate Covid-19 and at high risk of poor outcomes “indicated a rapid and sustained antiviral activity against Sars-Cov-2, with no new or unexpected safety results”, the company said.

What role are governments playing?
In June, the US unveiled plans to invest $3bn in antiviral drug development, saying it would help create the next generation of coronavirus treatments.

The funding will be spent on accelerating clinical trials of antiviral drugs and the creation of a new Antiviral Drug Discovery centre to develop treatments for as yet unidentified coronaviruses in order “to better prepare the nation for future viral threats”.

Joe Biden’s administration also signed a $1.2bn deal with Merck in June for 1.7m courses of molnupiravir if the tablet received approval from the FDA.

In April Boris Johnson, UK prime minister, established an antivirals task force, modelled on the country’s successful vaccines task force.

He pledged “to have at least two effective treatments this year, either in a tablet or capsule form” that could be taken at home following a positive test or exposure to someone with the virus. But as yet there has been no word from the task force and its leader, pharmaceutical industry veteran Eddie Gray, on whether that target will be met.

The UK health department said there were “a number of exciting opportunities in the pipeline” and promised to provide “further details in due course”.
 

dredd

Alfrescian
Loyal
I was referring to this doc:
https://www.ft.com/content/48cf11f5-9588-4487-b262-f6f26e901ec2

Antiviral pill: How close are we to a drug to treat Covid?

Scientists seek breakthrough in effort to ease virus symptoms and speed up recovery times

September 27, 2021 4:00 am by Sarah Neville in London and Nikou Asgari in New York

With coronavirus vaccines being administered worldwide, scientists are preparing a new weapon against the disease that has claimed more than 4.5m lives: an effective antiviral medication to treat the worst symptoms.

While vaccines aim to prevent infection, a pill that sped up recovery times and could be taken at home would be a significant development, providing treatment for people who are infected and potentially reducing the burden on hospitals.

With autumn under way in the northern hemisphere and fears of rising cases in colder months, pharmaceutical companies are locked in a race to achieve a breakthrough.

But there are questions over how much of a difference antiviral treatments can make, and how quickly, to patients with Covid-19, a potentially fatal disease with symptoms including a continuous cough, breathlessness and a high temperature.

How do antiviral drugs work?
The current generation of Covid-19 vaccines focuses on generating antibodies to neutralise the spike protein that the virus uses to enter human cells. With antiviral treatments, scientists must identify how to stop the virus from replicating.

One of the challenges faced by researchers is that antiviral drugs must be able to keep up with the evolving virus.

Recommended
Covid-19 vaccine tracker: the global race to vaccinate
“They’re not vulnerable to a lot of variant changes that you might see with the spike protein,” said Nicholas Kartsonis, senior vice-president of clinical research in infectious diseases at US pharmaceutical company Merck. It means that the virus cannot evade antiviral drugs in the way that it can vaccines.

“These sort of antivirals are really targeting the replication process of the virus itself,” he added.

Who is working on them?
Merck’s tablet, called molnupiravir, would be taken within five days of Covid-19 symptoms emerging, twice a day for five days. It is in phase-3 trials and the company expects to have data by the end of this year. Merck has also started household trials of molnupiravir in people who do not have coronavirus but are living with someone who does.

US pharmaceutical group Pfizer is also carrying out late-stage trials of its antiviral tablet. The company is studying two antivirals — a tablet that can be taken at home and an intravenous infusion for patients suffering from more serious disease. The medicines work by blocking the activity of the Covid protease, an enzyme that the virus needs in order to replicate in the body.

An inhaled interferon treatment being produced by a UK drug discovery company, Synairgen, has also emerged as a potentially promising approach to treating the disease.

Richard Marsden, the company’s chief executive, said one of the main ways viruses evaded the immune system was “to suppress the production of interferon beta”, which plays a significant role in activating the wider immune response and preventing a virus from replicating. “All we’re doing is putting . . . this protein, that everyone makes, back into the battleground, and the battleground that matters is in the lungs,” added Marsden.

Who would receive antiviral drugs?
Recipients might include immunosuppressed people for whom Covid-19 vaccines do not work, or a defined group — such as a school, care home or football team — in which they could be used prophylactically to forestall a wider outbreak.

The trick, however, would be timing as such products needed to be given at the first sign of symptoms, said Steve Bates, chief executive of the UK’s BioIndustry Association.

Bates said he would be “unsurprised” to see at least one antiviral drug ready to be rolled out in the coming weeks, potentially under an “emergency use authorisation”, through which products yet to win full regulatory approval can be made available during a public health crisis.

But Bates, a former member of Britain’s vaccines task force, suggested mass deployment across the UK population was unlikely.

“I think of them as more specialist tools, probably used in particular groups of the population or at a particular point in an outbreak,” he added.

Efficacy levels might be far lower than the public had come to expect from the vaccines, Bates warned. “Because of this problem of when you administer them, it’s almost impossible to get a really good result statistically. And if you get an antiviral that works at 40 per cent, I think that will be brilliant,” he said.

However, Eric Topol, director of the California-based Scripps Research Translational Institute, said that, provided antivirals were “highly effective and safe, and inexpensive or provided freely, I think they will be quite widely used”. This would particularly apply if the treatment was available as “a pill, oral route medication or an inhalation as opposed to an injection under the skin”, he added.

What have trials shown?
Although multiple Covid vaccines have been authorised, US group Gilead’s infusion remdesivir, which is administered intravenously, is the only antiviral treatment that has been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) — despite its uncertain benefit to patients. Scientists at the World Health Organization say the drug has “no meaningful effect” on mortality or the need for ventilation.

Kartsonis at Merck said antiviral drugs must first be studied, and the correct dose calculated, on healthy individuals before being trialled on Covid-19 patients. That, he said, partly explained why only one antiviral treatment had been approved.

He noted that antivirals must be absorbed, metabolised and excreted correctly but vaccine makers “don’t have to worry about those other characteristics because they don’t really apply”.

In Europe, Swiss pharma company Roche is working with Atea Pharmaceuticals on an oral antiviral it believes has dual potential: to treat people with Covid-19 and prevent illness in people who have been exposed to the virus.

Initial results in hospitalised patients with moderate Covid-19 and at high risk of poor outcomes “indicated a rapid and sustained antiviral activity against Sars-Cov-2, with no new or unexpected safety results”, the company said.

What role are governments playing?
In June, the US unveiled plans to invest $3bn in antiviral drug development, saying it would help create the next generation of coronavirus treatments.

The funding will be spent on accelerating clinical trials of antiviral drugs and the creation of a new Antiviral Drug Discovery centre to develop treatments for as yet unidentified coronaviruses in order “to better prepare the nation for future viral threats”.

Joe Biden’s administration also signed a $1.2bn deal with Merck in June for 1.7m courses of molnupiravir if the tablet received approval from the FDA.

In April Boris Johnson, UK prime minister, established an antivirals task force, modelled on the country’s successful vaccines task force.

He pledged “to have at least two effective treatments this year, either in a tablet or capsule form” that could be taken at home following a positive test or exposure to someone with the virus. But as yet there has been no word from the task force and its leader, pharmaceutical industry veteran Eddie Gray, on whether that target will be met.

The UK health department said there were “a number of exciting opportunities in the pipeline” and promised to provide “further details in due course”.
Wah lau... he come here to chit chat and relac, you ask him to work. :biggrin:
 

kaninabuchaojibye

Alfrescian
Loyal
SDP introduces a sensible and foresighted plan to exit the Covid pandemic
yoursdp.org


covic.jpeg
The handling of the Covid-19 pandemic by the Government’s Multi-Ministerial Task Force has been plagued with a distinct lack of coherence and direction. This has left Singaporeans confused and frustrated.

The lack of a clear strategy in dealing with the pandemic has also left businesses unable to plan ahead. The reactive nature of the MMTF’s approach in dealing with outbreaks of infections has led to stop-start, on-again/off-again policies which had impacted adversely on both employers and employees.

In light of this, the SDP has developed an 8-point plan to exit the pandemic and get Singapore out of the current mess and into a more stable and hopeful future. The paper has been drawn up by the party’s healthcare panel which also wrote our National Healthcare Plan in 2013 which was updated more recently in 2019.

1. Stop testing asymptomatic vaccinated individuals outside of contact tracing. This will help ensure that resources are concentrated on those who need them most – the elderly and vulnerable who are actually infected.

2. Ensure that those who test positive including pregnant women and children report to the nearest Public Health Preparedness Clinic (private General Practitioners or polyclinics) who can then evaluate them and decide if they need to be hospitalised or simply monitored over the week or so as we do with other infectious diseases such as urinary tract infections or food poisoning. GPs should be appropriately compensated for the care they provide.

3. Facilitate nursing homes to keep infected patients who are stable and do not need hospitalisation in their facilities but segregate them from the rest of the residents. Have GPs check on them and decide when they need hospitalisation. This will relieve the strain on hospitals and ensure that those who need hospital care are not deprived or delayed.

4. Set up a dedicated ambulance hotline similar to what was used during SARS for those who have tested positive or are identified as contacts so they can be rapidly brought to the hospital if their pulse oximeter readings show evidence of low oxygen concentrations.

5. Publish regular reports on test positivity and all clusters (like the dengue cluster reports) as in the recent decision to publish a map of emerging cases. This will help the public to seek medical attention if they develop symptoms after visiting those areas.

6. Do away with blanket closures and restrictions. Instead, implement interventions that are targeted like with food poisoning outbreaks or hand, foot and mouth disease outbreaks in childcare centres. Shut the physical building or facility where an outbreak occurs instead of across the whole island where outbreaks have not occurred.

7. Intensify molecular epidemiology (genetic fingerprinting) process. Every public hospital and referral lab must perform this for every positive case and the information should be fed into a database modelled on the World Health Organization’s (WHO) GISAID and the information therein made publicly available. This will make the identification of large clusters reliable.

8. Conduct rapid adaptive design randomized clinical trials on all WHO-approved vaccines so they can be brought in for the trials and studied as boosters or primary doses. These vaccines should be commissioned and funded rapidly. The same should be done for other preventative agents which have shown promise in earlier randomized trials such as povidone iodine or ivermectin. This will settle once and for all in a clear scientific manner many of the questions swirling around social media on alternatives to the current vaccination strategies.

Collectively, these measures will provide society with a more reliable and predictable way of handling the pandemic. They will build confidence as we go forward in dealing with a virus that is here to stay. Singapore must deal with the pandemic in a steady and intelligent manner that brings hope and security.

*We welcome public feedback on these measures. Please provide your comments here.
*If you have a burning question that we can answer on our APA programme this Tuesday night, ask it here.
*If you have general comments or remarks, go to our Faceback post.
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
more expected until a point where people gets numb unless it's like a double digit daily figure. the chenghu could have conveniently spread out the deaths over a few days to decrease the alarm so u get daily small number deaths instead of one lump sum.
They are already spreading out the news of death. look at the daily reports for the past 4 days, pay extra attention on 24 Sep.
 

kaninabuchaojibye

Alfrescian
Loyal
They are already spreading out the news of death. look at the daily reports for the past 4 days, pay extra attention on 24 Sep.
stop testing asymptomatic
creates unnecessary fear and naturally people will go hospital and demand medical care but end up stressing the hospital system for nothing
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
stop testing asymptomatic
creates unnecessary fear and naturally people will go hospital and demand medical care but end up stressing the hospital system for nothing
two schools of thoughts:
one to let it go spread rampantly in public, since 2% need oxygen, 0.1% death or more.
two is using hammer & dance, spreading it out slowly, keep our 0.0009% CFR

mass testing does weed out clusters (if can ringfence in time). I throw the question back to MTF, you have a baseline for the CFR?
 

Maxico

Alfrescian
Loyal

US raises Covid danger level in Hong Kong and Singapore! Huat Ahaaaaa.....!​


Tue, 28 September 2021, 10:44 am


People look at the city skyline on June 7, 2021 in Singapore. Singapore enters a month long heightened alert from May 16 to June 13 to curb the spread of COVID-19 cases in the local community. New restrictions on movements and activities have been introduced such as limiting social interaction to two, prohibiting dining out and a reduced operating capacity at shopping malls, offices and attractions. (Photo by Suhaimi Abdullah/NurPhoto via Getty Images)

The US said trips to Singapore and Hong Kong have become more dangerous because of the coronavirus, raising its travel health advice for the Asian financial hubs by one level. (PHOTO: Suhaimi Abdullah/NurPhoto via Getty Images)
By Angus Whitley
(Bloomberg) — The US said trips to Singapore and Hong Kong have become more dangerous because of the coronavirus, raising its travel health advice for the Asian financial hubs by one level.
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said anyone who hasn’t been vaccinated should avoid non-essential trips to Singapore, citing a “high level” of Covid-19. “All travellers may be at risk for getting and spreading Covid variants,” the CDC said, increasing its travel advice for Singapore by one notch to Level 3.

The CDC also raised its advice to Hong Kong one rung to Level 2, citing a “moderate level” of coronavirus. The CDC said unvaccinated travelers with a higher risk of severe illness from Covid-19 should avoid non-essential travel to Hong Kong. The CDC’s highest travel health notice is Level 4.
While Singapore has reported almost daily coronavirus caseloads of more than 1,000 since mid-September, the advice is puzzling for Hong Kong. The city has seen fewer than 10 cases a day since late August, and there hasn’t been a locally-transmitted infection in Hong Kong since mid-August, data show. The hub is also yet to experience an outbreak of the delta variant.
The US, by contrast, is in the midst of another Covid resurgence, as its vaccination rollout stalls. The country added over 180,000 new cases on Friday, and saw more than 2,700 deaths from the virus.
© 2021 Bloomberg L.P.
 

kaninabuchaojibye

Alfrescian
Loyal
two schools of thoughts:
one to let it go spread rampantly in public, since 2% need oxygen, 0.1% death or more.
two is using hammer & dance, spreading it out slowly, keep our 0.0009% CFR

mass testing does weed out clusters (if can ringfence in time). I throw the question back to MTF, you have a baseline for the CFR?
ring fencing sounds good theoretically but hard to implement
 
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