Breaking: Tan Jee Say & Ang Yong Guan to join SPP

[tanwahp]

Maybe you haven't heard of the Singapore Democratic Alliance.

Not to mention Indonesia under Sukarno which was a tripartite arrangement between Communists, Nationalists and Islamists. That ended in a lot of bloodshed, of course, but it lasted for 20 years.

In the SDA, the SPP was the leading party and held the only seat of SDA. Chiam was the leader of SDA.

The Sukarno led INP held the most seats in the Dewan and Sukarno was, of course, the President.

Your examples only served to strengthen my argument. My point was why it was so inconceivable that WP should be the leading party if a grouping is formed.

 

[ray_of_hope]

In the SDA, the SPP was the leading party and held the only seat of SDA. Chiam was the leader of SDA.

Indeed! After SPP left SDA , the SDA's appeal plummeted. It was right at the bottom in terms of the popular vote out of the 6 oppo parties that contested in 2011. (Even coming below RP!) The SDP was 4th in 2011 in terms of popular vote, and, to that extent, it is was not coincidental that the SDP was the 4th choice (the choice of last resort) for TJS back in 2011. Curious that no-one here is asking why TJS will not return to SDP?

 

[3_M]

In the SDA, the SPP was the leading party and held the only seat of SDA. Chiam was the leader of SDA.

The Sukarno led INP held the most seats in the Dewan and Sukarno was, of course, the President.

Your examples only served to strengthen my argument. My point was why it was so inconceivable that WP should be the leading party if a grouping is formed.

If I remember correctly, SDA constitution gave the sec gen the veto power to override CEC. In this case, it was CST. His party was the dominant party within the alliance.

 

[3_M]

Indeed! After SPP left SDA , the SDA's appeal plummeted. It was right at the bottom in terms of the popular vote out of the 6 oppo parties that contested in 2011. (Even coming below RP!) The SDP was 4th in 2011 in terms of popular vote, and, to that extent, it is was not coincidental that the SDP was the 4th choice (the choice of last resort) for TJS back in 2011. Curious that no-one here is asking why TJS will not return to SDP?

SDA was a failed experiment of opposition coalition. Unequal strength among the parties means the coalition was as strong as it weakest link. It turns out that to be 1+1 is less than 2. We have to be thankful that not all parties join them else everyone will sink together.

 

[Bad New Brown]

Sorry hor I forgot I'm talking to a typical Singaporean who doesn't understand sarcasm.

Just a few years ago, hope your memory is not that short, it was unthinkable that an opposition party would win a GRC.

Similarly today it is unthinkable that a non-WP opposition party will win a seat in parliament.

In my personal views, it will take another 20 years at minimum for a non-WP opposition party will win a seat in parliament

 

[Bad New Brown]

The one with the 47 seats will form the government. 47 out of 87 will give a simple majority.

then the 47-party will form a lame government that may need to compromise almost always on anything when it needed 2/3 votes.. not a bad outcome if you'd ask me

The 47 seats ruling party will then has to work with the 40 seats main opposition party to pass bills and do other things. Both need each other to do thing so a coalition is possible.

Sinkieland has a small voting population that not enough to support a 3rd party to enter the House.

 

[Liquigas]

In my personal views, it will take another 20 years at minimum for a non-WP opposition party will win a seat in parliament

20 years is a long time in politics my friend ... the wind of change and political climate can change very fast. If NSP could assemble a strong team to contest in MP GRC again in 2016 their chance of winning is high ...

 

[Bad New Brown]

20 years is a long time in politics my friend ... the wind of change and political climate can change very fast. If NSP could assemble a strong team to contest in MP GRC again in 2016 their chance of winning is high ...

Not likely as the garment policy is improving and also connecting to common residents. Older sinkies are alway conversative when it coming to a change. The grassroots are also important factor.

Can you elaborate more how a strong team look like ?

 

[metalmickey]

In my personal views, it will take another 20 years at minimum for a non-WP opposition party will win a seat in parliament

If it wasn't so important for me to maintain my anonymity I would have asked you to put down a bet of $50.

 

[metalmickey]

In the SDA, the SPP was the leading party and held the only seat of SDA. Chiam was the leader of SDA.

The Sukarno led INP held the most seats in the Dewan and Sukarno was, of course, the President.

Your examples only served to strengthen my argument. My point was why it was so inconceivable that WP should be the leading party if a grouping is formed.

Yes, but what's happened now? Remember that NSP, before they broke away from the SDA, was the junior partner in the SDA. Today you wouldn't really say that the NSP is a smaller party than the SPP? Sure, the NSP was boosted by people from the Refugee Party, but the RP almost became part of the SDA too, didn't it?

And the INP was the larger party but not by a big distance. It certainly wasn't larger than the islamist and communist factions put together.

The WP - well let's be frank about its strengths. So far they've done well. And one of the appeals of the WP is that the leadership actually acts like grown up people, doing the right thing by not conducting piss fights with other opposition parties (although the same is not apparently true for the rank and file). Firing Yaw Shin Leong when it's time to fire him. Firing Poh Lee Guan when it's time to fire him. They appear to be humble (although the same is not apparently true for the rank and file).

You lose these two things, it will be a bit like the PAP losing its capacity to take care of the lower class people, and losing its reputation for integrity and not being greedy. It can only go downhill.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

In general, Coalition and minority gahmens are best avoided. few coalitions work well,,but depending on the strength of the Coalition, sometimes, it becomes the tyranny of the minority. That will be worse than tyranny of the majority...

 

[Bad New Brown]

If it wasn't so important for me to maintain my anonymity I would have asked you to put down a bet of $50.

It is just my views. We still can talk about this political issues after the next GE and I think it is not too far from now

 

[tanwahp]

Yes, but what's happened now? Remember that NSP, before they broke away from the SDA, was the junior partner in the SDA. Today you wouldn't really say that the NSP is a smaller party than the SPP? Sure, the NSP was boosted by people from the Refugee Party, but the RP almost became part of the SDA too, didn't it?

And the INP was the larger party but not by a big distance. It certainly wasn't larger than the islamist and communist factions put together.

It's quite interesting that you are arguing for my case because if the leading parties were majority by a tiny bit, what more when WP has 7 seats + 2 NCMP seats while SPP has 1 NCMP seat and the rest has none, and some begrudge WP for heading a coalition.

I am sure SDP having no seat but telling WP exactly what to do will not be right either, based on the same standards.

There are many more examples where the largest presence in the house heads a coalition. UMNO heads BN and the PM is from UMNO, Conservatives lead the Con Dem alliance and Cameron not Clegg is PM, Liberals lead the Lib-Nat alliance and Abbott comes from Lib, BJP leads India's ruling coalition, Pheu Thai leads a coalition and Yingluck is from PT. I'm picking more norms than exceptions.

The WP - well let's be frank about its strengths. So far they've done well. And one of the appeals of the WP is that the leadership actually acts like grown up people, doing the right thing by not conducting piss fights with other opposition parties (although the same is not apparently true for the rank and file). Firing Yaw Shin Leong when it's time to fire him. Firing Poh Lee Guan when it's time to fire him. They appear to be humble (although the same is not apparently true for the rank and file).

You lose these two things, it will be a bit like the PAP losing its capacity to take care of the lower class people, and losing its reputation for integrity and not being greedy. It can only go downhill.

I acknowledge what you said. Generally, to conclude, I still think there is nothing wrong to suggest that WP leads a coalition, if it is willing, the rest of the opposition camp has to concede.

 

[metalmickey]

It is just my views. We still can talk about this political issues after the next GE and I think it is not too far from now

It's not important to talk about it now. Because everybody will have their reasons, everybody will talk until the cows come home. It's pretty useless. What's really important is to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Bad New Brown]

It's not important to talk about it now. Because everybody will have their reasons, everybody will talk until the cows come home. It's pretty useless. What's really important is to put your money where your mouth is.

$50 is very small peanut to me.

Until a non-WP opposition party win a seat first if not everybody will talk until the cows come home too. In the next 20 years, we will still see 2 party debating in the House.

The smaller parties who suffer election defeat after defeat will soon be gone

 

[yellowarse]

Generally, to conclude, I still think there is nothing wrong to suggest that WP leads a coalition, if it is willing, the rest of the opposition camp has to concede.

I think the other opposition parties will have no quarrel with a WP-led coalition, it being the only party with parliamentary representation.

That's not the issue. The problem is, WP has never shown any inclination towards any form of opposition alliance or coalition. That's why you have the likes of TJS calling for a pan-opposition alliance (sans WP) as the 3rd force after the PAP and WP. There's no reason why coalition politics can't work in Singapore, even with its small size and first-past-the-post system.

 

[SgParent]

The 47 seats ruling party will then has to work with the 40 seats main opposition party to pass bills and do other things. Both need each other to do thing so a coalition is possible.

i dun think such "work with" 1 another is a coalition.

more like butter trade... this time you help me out next time i approve bigger budget for your lift upgrading

 

[tanwahp]

I think the other opposition parties will have no quarrel with a WP-led coalition, it being the only party with parliamentary representation.

I beg to disagree, based on my own observations. You want to know what these observations are, I can share.

That's not the issue. The problem is, WP has never shown any inclination towards any form of opposition alliance or coalition.

That's true to an extent. I can turn around to say there isn't any party willing to work with WP as they want to be equals with WP, but even if an opposition party started to court WP in a fair manner that no opposition has done to date, there is no guarantee WP is open.

That's why you have the likes of TJS calling for a pan-opposition alliance (sans WP) as the 3rd force after the PAP and WP. There's no reason why coalition politics can't work in Singapore, even with its small size and first-past-the-post system.

We will see if he succeeds. I may be wrong, but if he avoided joining NSP or rejoining SDP due to the internal issues, I don't see how he can be part of a slattern alliance if someone hobbles them together.

 

[SgParent]

I think the other opposition parties will have no quarrel with a WP-led coalition, it being the only party with parliamentary representation.

read the 1st part of my post.112 and then think if you want to repeat your comment

 

[ray_of_hope]

TJS has tried many gimmicks without success. He grandly called for an anti-PAP coalition and yet no-one showed any interest.

He then had his research/study group near Dhoby Ghaut being a short-lived phenomenon. Something to do with rental issues.

Now his latest 2 gimmicks are to speak at HLP and to post half-baked ideas on a blog which are then promptly carried by TRE.