Breaking: Tan Jee Say & Ang Yong Guan to join SPP

[ahkow]

I hope that you guys who supported WP walking or threatening 3 corner or multi-corners fight will remember your words written here forever. If there is any other parties walking into Aljunied, East Coast, Hougang, Punggol East, Yishun during next GE, please don't KPKB hor.

Goh Meng Seng

Any political party is free to be found walking in any GRC or SMC but just remember P East where KJ and the other joker were brutally 'killed' by the voters.

 

[metalmickey]

Is the correct one?
I think it is more like this: let the other opposition parties fight it out in constituencies we do not have the ppl for. Let them test the ground sentiments. We can come in and sapu all when we are ready.

One thing I think even the WP will not do is they will not go into a place where the opposition is the incumbent. For example a Potong Pasir seat when CST was still around. Unless they are even more arrogant than I give them credit for.

The relationship between the opposition parties is a bit like Apple and Google. Once upon a time when Microsoft was high and mighty, Apple and Google were friends. Together they plotted to bring down Microsoft. Then Google came up with android, which was the alternative to the iPhone system and suddenly they became mortal enemies, swearing and cursing at each other. I think even if there is "opposition unity" it might come to this someday.

But what I find really disturbing is, even at this stage, even before the WP is truly established, it wants to be special and distinct. That is very curious. People have long memories.

There are two interpretations. One of them is that WP is looking at other parties and wondering, "you guys operate like clowns. When are you going to get your shit together? Maybe one day when you're operating on the same level as us, we can be friends." Another less benign interpretation is they simply think they don't need anybody else, not now, not ever.

Because when the PAP goes below one half of the seats, what's most likely to happen is that the WP will also have less than 50% of the seats, and people will want to look for a coalition partner. And maybe the third party (maybe SDP or SPP or NSP or whatever) will just partner the PAP because they buisong the treatment they had at the hands of WP all these years. And then WP will just have to suck thumbs and continue to excel at being a good opposition party like they've always been.

 

[tanwahp]

One thing I think even the WP will not do is they will not go into a place where the opposition is the incumbent. For example a Potong Pasir seat when CST was still around. Unless they are even more arrogant than I give them credit for.

I remember WP wouldn't even sell newspapers in Potong Pasir and after 2006 they gave up Bishan Toa Payoh to SPP after Chiam told them he wanted to contest BTP in 2011 (which turned out to be true). Even SDP is savvy enough to know that Hougang and Punggol East was different.

Based on your definition, the arrogant ones will be people like Goh Meng Seng, who makes no such differentiation between an opposition ward and a PAP ward, and Tan Jee Say who wanted to contest Hougang.

But what I find really disturbing is, even at this stage, even before the WP is truly established, it wants to be special and distinct. That is very curious. People have long memories.

Every party has wanted to be distinct, even those with no seats. PAP, SDP, NSP, RP etc. You name it you have it. You should be disturbed by all parties or Singapore politics in that case.

There are two interpretations. One of them is that WP is looking at other parties and wondering, "you guys operate like clowns. When are you going to get your shit together? Maybe one day when you're operating on the same level as us, we can be friends." Another less benign interpretation is they simply think they don't need anybody else, not now, not ever.

The absent argument so far is that political alliances tend to be between a majority party and minority party(s). For example, UMNO-MCA-MIC. Or a major party like BJP and regional parties.

In any alliance, WP has to be the majority one at this stage. How is WP to form an alliance when all the existing opposition parties say, "No, we are not going to be the minority party".

It's true WP has no interest allying with another party at this stage, but I don't think there is any existing party willing to be a minor or fiddle to WP.

Because when the PAP goes below one half of the seats, what's most likely to happen is that the WP will also have less than 50% of the seats, and people will want to look for a coalition partner. And maybe the third party (maybe SDP or SPP or NSP or whatever) will just partner the PAP because they buisong the treatment they had at the hands of WP all these years. And then WP will just have to suck thumbs and continue to excel at being a good opposition party like they've always been.

It is not necessarily good or bad to be a coalition partner to the PAP or remain as an opposition to the PAP, so I don't understand what this comparison is about.

 

[3_M]

I remember WP wouldn't even sell newspapers in Potong Pasir and after 2006 they gave up Bishan Toa Payoh to SPP after Chiam told them he wanted to contest BTP in 2011 (which turned out to be true). Even SDP is savvy enough to know that Hougang and Punggol East was different.

Based on your definition, the arrogant ones will be people like Goh Meng Seng, who makes no such differentiation between an opposition ward and a PAP ward, and Tan Jee Say who wanted to contest Hougang.

opposition supporters will only recognize the area as your turf provided you win it. As such no opposition party will dare to encroach and sabotage the chance of the incumbent. Opposition supporters are not going to forgive them if that ever happen.

Claiming a place as your turf just because you contest there previously is just not good enough.

 

[Sideswipe]

opposition supporters will only recognize the area as your turf provided you win it. As such no opposition party will dare to encroach and sabotage the chance of the incumbent. Opposition supporters are not going to forgive them if that ever happen.

Claiming a place as your turf just because you contest there previously is just not good enough.

i agree. but if WP choose to contest Tampines next GE, it would be very hard for NSP to accept it. afterall NSP has been contesting Tampines for over 20 years.

 

[tanwahp]

Claiming a place as your turf just because you contest there previously is just not good enough.

Agree. All these years I got to seen certain opposition people complain when others step into the wards they last contested, then the same people want to step into other people's wards. Examples are:

NSP Goh Meng Seng (cannot step into MK GRC, but others can step into Punggol East)
NSP Hazel Poa (cannot step into Tampines GRC, but NSP can step into Hougang)
RP KJ (cannot step into so many wards he ambiguously and arbitrarily links to his father, but he can step into Punggol East)
SDA Desmond Lim (cannot step into Punggol East, but he can step into Potong Pasir)
SDP Chee Soon Juan (3CF is no good, but SDP can step into 3CF)

You notice that WP or anyone from WP is not among the list. WP is not linked to opposition unity which some desire to see, but at least they are consistent.

 

[3_M]

There are two interpretations. One of them is that WP is looking at other parties and wondering, "you guys operate like clowns. When are you going to get your shit together? Maybe one day when you're operating on the same level as us, we can be friends." Another less benign interpretation is they simply think they don't need anybody else, not now, not ever.

The reason is very simple. If you are looking for a partner to do project, would you want to team up with people who always absent themselves from lectures, people who often sleep in during lecture? Or someone whom u think are as hardworking and as diligent as you? Other will also judge u in the same light. Same for political party, u want alliance, u must have something on the table to offer. If there is nothing to offer, why should I give way to out of friendship? and a party leader can just give way like that, how are the voters going to judge if one day you become the govt. Are u going to sell the country's interests easily?

alliance of any form can only happen with party on the same level . If any party wants co-operation with WP, do themselves this favor by winning seats elevate themselves to the same level. It might sound arrogant but that the reality in this world.

 

[3_M]

i agree. but if WP choose to contest Tampines next GE, it would be very hard for NSP to accept it. afterall NSP has been contesting Tampines for over 20 years.

If someone who can't perform on the field, what will the coach do? Of course substitute the player. Which all the more provide more justification for a better party to replace NSP. If they don't want to admit, just let the voters decide in a 3CF. Same rule applies to WP in Nee Soon, if any party think they can do a better job, then just go for it.

 

[metalmickey]

Every party has wanted to be distinct, even those with no seats. PAP, SDP, NSP, RP etc. You name it you have it. You should be disturbed by all parties or Singapore politics in that case.

No, the WP is even special in this respect. They are the only opposition party not talking about opposition unity.

The absent argument so far is that political alliances tend to be between a majority party and minority party(s). For example, UMNO-MCA-MIC. Or a major party like BJP and regional parties.

In any alliance, WP has to be the majority one at this stage. How is WP to form an alliance when all the existing opposition parties say, "No, we are not going to be the minority party".

It's true WP has no interest allying with another party at this stage, but I don't think there is any existing party willing to be a minor or fiddle to WP.

No, people are not necessarily talking about alliances yet. Alliances are pretty extreme. Even when we talk about informal meetings, exchanging notes, political discussion forums, I sense that WP is squirmish about all that. Maybe even freedom of movement for people between parties. WP doesn't want to have anything to do with that.

Well you said it, that you could not conceive of the WP as being a part of any coalition where WP wasn't the major leader. Which is kinda insane to me because if WP ever wants to assume power one day, they'd most probably have to do it as part of a coalition with another opposition party, at least for one term. One can only conclude - and this impression is reinforced by their lack of appetite for a good fight in parliament - that they're not really that interested in governing Singapore.

 

[theant]

Former presidential candidate Tan Jee Say has been invited to eat mooncakes with the Chiams.

Was anyone actually there at the function to eat the mooncake?

 

[Bad New Brown]

Well you said it, that you could not conceive of the WP as being a part of any coalition where WP wasn't the major leader. Which is kinda insane to me because if WP ever wants to assume power one day, they'd most probably have to do it as part of a coalition with another opposition party, at least for one term. One can only conclude - and this impression is reinforced by their lack of appetite for a good fight in parliament - that they're not really that interested in governing Singapore.

??????????

 

[Liquigas]

..alliance of any form can only happen with party on the same level . If any party wants co-operation with WP, do themselves this favor by winning seats elevate themselves to the same level. It might sound arrogant but that the reality in this world.

The way forward here should see two main political parties vying to compete with each other at each GE to form the government. As it is now the two protagonist likely are PAP and WP. And if one day WP win the most votes but with no overall majority they would need to seek the support from a smaller party (maybe SDP who knows) to form an alliance government. The WP leader will then be the PM and the DPM post will go to the SDP. This is exactly what is happening in UK at the moment.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Is the correct one?
I think it is more like this: let the other opposition parties fight it out in constituencies we do not have the ppl for. Let them test the ground sentiments. We can come in and sapu all when we are ready.

But you are correct in this: "They don't believe in opposition unity."
WP think of themselves as THE only alternative to PAP. All others are inferior and unimportant to them. This kind of thinking is no better than the PAP.

And Metalmickey is right on the tactical voting part.
I dislike the WP for feeling high and mighty and for being uncooperative on opposition unity. I will vote WP as my distaste for the PAP is greater. But this does not mean that I am with the WP. On the contrary, I dislike them for what they are... a pseudo opposition party.

If WP is a responsible and true opposition, then why are they not striving for opposition unity? Their inertia and disinterest says it all.

Bro methink, those clamouring for opposition unity are those who can't win votes on their own steam. Opposition unity in the singapore context means "give way to your weaker brethren".

Its about a lack of trust. Up till today, none of the other parties have shown they can sustain a credible momentum without succumbing to intra-party rivalry that spills out into the open. WP gains no advantage by allying with the others.

 

[Bad New Brown]

The way forward here should see two main political parties vying to compete with each other at each GE to form the government. As it is now the two protagonist likely are PAP and WP. And if one day WP win the most votes but with no overall majority they would need to seek the support from a smaller party (maybe SDP who knows) to form an alliance government. The WP leader will then be the PM and the DPM post will go to the SDP. This is exactly what is happening in UK at the moment.

double posting

 

[tanwahp]

No, the WP is even special in this respect. They are the only opposition party not talking about opposition unity.

You should have been more precise to state "in this respect". I thought you were saying WP is generally trying to be special.

Well you said it, that you could not conceive of the WP as being a part of any coalition where WP wasn't the major leader.

I said "at this stage" if you bothered to read carefully. If WP is going to form a coalition with SPP tomorrow, what's so weird to expect WP to be the leading party, be it by SPP's willingness or WP's own expectation? If not at this stafe but 50 years time and NSP has more seats than WP, NSP leads and WP will be a partner or one of the partners.

Which is kinda insane to me because if WP ever wants to assume power one day, they'd most probably have to do it as part of a coalition with another opposition party, at least for one term.

I didn't disagree with that, just saying that in a coalition, there will be a majority and minority parties. I don't think that was hard to understand.

 

[metalmickey]

Tell that another opposition party to win a seat first then talk about coalition

That is absolutely unthinkable. That would be just like an opposition party winning a GRC.

 

[Bad New Brown]

That is absolutely unthinkable. That would be just like an opposition party winning a GRC.

Then which party can win GRC

 

[tanwahp]

I can't see that happening at all. If a coalition garment is about to happen, the PAP leader will then again be the PM and the DPM post will go to the WP.

That will be fairytales that most people want to see :p

The second party usually does not coalition with the first party for one simple reason. If you managed to reach the stage of being a formidable second party, it means the first party has faltered to a very large extent and will continue to falter, so why would you switch to ally with the faltering side when you have caused and benefitted from it? It will be an oxymoron.

Third, fourth and onward parties will be easier to approach by the first party since they are too far from and can never otherwise have a taste of governance.

Unless WP doesn't end up as the second party, it will never coalition with PAP.

 

[Bad New Brown]

The second party usually does not coalition with the first party for one simple reason. If you managed to reach the stage of being a formidable second party, it means the first party has faltered to a very large extent and will continue to falter, so why would you switch to ally with the faltering side when you have caused and benefitted from it? It will be an oxymoron.

Third, fourth and onward parties will be easier to approach by the first party since they are too far from and can never otherwise have a taste of governance.

Unless WP doesn't end up as the second party, it will never coalition with PAP.

What happen if there are only 2 parties with elected seats ?

say 47-40

 

[metalmickey]

You should have been more precise to state "in this respect". I thought you were saying WP is generally trying to be special.

No, I meant both. They think they are special because they are the only opposition party not talking about unity, and also they think they are special.

I didn't disagree with that, just saying that in a coalition, there will be a majority and minority parties. I don't think that was hard to understand.

No, that's not what the WP is saying at all. They have said, you go your own way I'll go mine. They did not say let's have a coalition, I'll be the senior partner, you be the junior partner. And you - are you the WP?

This is really dumb. If I wanted a bunch of arrogant fucks to run my life, I'd go with the PAP instead. At least they already built the Singapore we know. What have you guys done?