Breaking: Tan Jee Say & Ang Yong Guan to join SPP

[3_M]

$50 is very small peanut to me.

Until a non-WP opposition party win a seat first if not everybody will talk until the cows come home too. In the next 20 years, we will still see 2 party debating in the House.

The smaller parties who suffer election defeat after defeat will soon be gone

I generally agree with you that with the current situation, it very difficult for non-WP parties to win unless there is a drastic change of mood and voters behavior along the way. If any non-WP party can win some seats together with WP, not only it open the doors for opposition co-operation in parliament, our political landscape will be heading towards and multi-party system. But if WP gains more inroad while others failed to win any, then it spell danger for the rest as WP will want to expand to other parts of the island if she ever hope to wrestle power from PAP.

The way I see, the future is rather bleak for non-WP opposition.

 

[3_M]

I think the other opposition parties will have no quarrel with a WP-led coalition, it being the only party with parliamentary representation.

That's not the issue. The problem is, WP has never shown any inclination towards any form of opposition alliance or coalition. That's why you have the likes of TJS calling for a pan-opposition alliance (sans WP) as the 3rd force after the PAP and WP. There's no reason why coalition politics can't work in Singapore, even with its small size and first-past-the-post system.

Actually SDP also never respond positively to TJS suggestion of an opposition coalition. Personality clash, different view of politics and ideology are posing hindrances to coalition. For instance, in a WP led coalition, would CSJ be willing to get his hand dirty by knocking at each doors within the neighborhood 3 times a week without much fanfare? If WP faction from within do things this way and SDP faction do things another way, NSP faction just gone MIA....then what the point of having a coalition? It would better to have people of the same outlook, same belief to stick to their respective party.

 

[tanwahp]

The way I see, the future is rather bleak for non-WP opposition.

The third parties can only do it if they can get out of the rut they are stuck in that is difficult to get out from.

SDP is stuck with the reverence of Chee who ironically is the reason why repair works are still being done to the party's name. They are in a Catch 22 situation. Letting him go removes the reason why they joined SDP in the first place. Keeping him means any SDP A-Team may score worse than WP's C-Team or D-Team, and then these people will leave the party only for SDP to rebuild their top tier from scratch. Top tier types are usually harder to retain than rank and file helping hands.

NSP is banking everything on Nicole Seah. NSP would have been goner if not for a small bunch of former RP folks, but that could only be an extension of time as it is a very small group. Until now, there are no hardcore NSP supporters. If Nicole loses her appeal (which I think is gradually happening), it just means the party will become one of the many bland parties in history like People's Front or UPF or SUF.

SPP has only 2 powerhouses - the aging Chiams - and the others will retire with them when they retire. If Tan Jee Say and Ang Yong Guan replaces them, it only means the party starts from scratch.

RP and SDA are in the same boat as one-man parties. They are surrounded by 3 or 4 people which will change from time to time and only their faces will stay until they decide to call it quits.

For the WP, it's not because they have better people than SDP or NSP, just more. They also do not have liability personalities and have more people to bank on by gathering more people under one banner. Similarly, not that PAP has better people than WP or SDP or NSP or whatever party. As they say, politics is a numbers game.

 

[ray_of_hope]

The third parties can only do it if they can get out of the rut they are stuck in that is difficult to get out from.

SDP is stuck with the reverence of Chee who ironically is the reason why repair works are still being done to the party's name. They are in a Catch 22 situation. Letting him go removes the reason why they joined SDP in the first place. Keeping him means any SDP A-Team may score worse than WP's C-Team or D-Team, and then these people will leave the party only for SDP to rebuild their top tier from scratch. Top tier types are usually harder to retain than rank and file helping hands.

NSP is banking everything on Nicole Seah. NSP would have been goner if not for a small bunch of former RP folks, but that could only be an extension of time as it is a very small group. Until now, there are no hardcore NSP supporters. If Nicole loses her appeal (which I think is gradually happening), it just means the party will become one of the many bland parties in history like People's Front or UPF or SUF.

SPP has only 2 powerhouses - the aging Chiams - and the others will retire with them when they retire. If Tan Jee Say and Ang Yong Guan replaces them, it only means the party starts from scratch.

RP and SDA are in the same boat as one-man parties. They are surrounded by 3 or 4 people which will change from time to time and only their faces will stay until they decide to call it quits.

For the WP, it's not because they have better people than SDP or NSP, just more. They also do not have liability personalities and have more people to bank on by gathering more people under one banner. Similarly, not that PAP has better people than WP or SDP or NSP or whatever party. As they say, politics is a numbers game.

Excellent analysis!!! Difficult to disagree with any of the above.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

The third parties can only do it if they can get out of the rut they are stuck in that is difficult to get out from.

SDP is stuck with the reverence of Chee who ironically is the reason why repair works are still being done to the party's name. They are in a Catch 22 situation. Letting him go removes the reason why they joined SDP in the first place. Keeping him means any SDP A-Team may score worse than WP's C-Team or D-Team, and then these people will leave the party only for SDP to rebuild their top tier from scratch. Top tier types are usually harder to retain than rank and file helping hands.

NSP is banking everything on Nicole Seah. NSP would have been goner if not for a small bunch of former RP folks, but that could only be an extension of time as it is a very small group. Until now, there are no hardcore NSP supporters. If Nicole loses her appeal (which I think is gradually happening), it just means the party will become one of the many bland parties in history like People's Front or UPF or SUF.

SPP has only 2 powerhouses - the aging Chiams - and the others will retire with them when they retire. If Tan Jee Say and Ang Yong Guan replaces them, it only means the party starts from scratch.

RP and SDA are in the same boat as one-man parties. They are surrounded by 3 or 4 people which will change from time to time and only their faces will stay until they decide to call it quits.

For the WP, it's not because they have better people than SDP or NSP, just more. They also do not have liability personalities and have more people to bank on by gathering more people under one banner. Similarly, not that PAP has better people than WP or SDP or NSP or whatever party. As they say, politics is a numbers game.

Thanks for the detailed writeup.

You are spot on regarding SDP.

SPP will not be starting from scratch if TJS/AYG joins. They will just transform into a TJS-centric party with all the baggage that he carries, for good or bad.

 

[Liquigas]

...The way I see, the future is rather bleak for non-WP opposition.

Not exactly so ... alot depends on how voters look at PAP. If more and more people are sick and tired of the PAP then it will be translated into more protest votes with little to do with the actual support level accorded to the opposition party. For example in the last GE, NSP obtained 45% of the valid votes in MP GRC but am quite sure diehard NSP supporters over there are minimal. Many are not even familiar with its agenda and the only prominent member in the team was NS.

PAP understands this very well and decided long ago to bring in new citizens as they no longer trust local bred voters any more ....

 

[3_M]

The third parties can only do it if they can get out of the rut they are stuck in that is difficult to get out from.

SDP is stuck with the reverence of Chee who ironically is the reason why repair works are still being done to the party's name. They are in a Catch 22 situation. Letting him go removes the reason why they joined SDP in the first place. Keeping him means any SDP A-Team may score worse than WP's C-Team or D-Team, and then these people will leave the party only for SDP to rebuild their top tier from scratch. Top tier types are usually harder to retain than rank and file helping hands.

NSP is banking everything on Nicole Seah. NSP would have been goner if not for a small bunch of former RP folks, but that could only be an extension of time as it is a very small group. Until now, there are no hardcore NSP supporters. If Nicole loses her appeal (which I think is gradually happening), it just means the party will become one of the many bland parties in history like People's Front or UPF or SUF.

SPP has only 2 powerhouses - the aging Chiams - and the others will retire with them when they retire. If Tan Jee Say and Ang Yong Guan replaces them, it only means the party starts from scratch.

RP and SDA are in the same boat as one-man parties. They are surrounded by 3 or 4 people which will change from time to time and only their faces will stay until they decide to call it quits.

For the WP, it's not because they have better people than SDP or NSP, just more. They also do not have liability personalities and have more people to bank on by gathering more people under one banner. Similarly, not that PAP has better people than WP or SDP or NSP or whatever party. As they say, politics is a numbers game.

Agree with you on SDP, I always think to overcome the situation, it better for CSJ to be given the post of hon.chairman and pass the baton to others. In such a way they have a spiritual leader with new leadership.

For NSp don't think NS alone can fight the tide be it vs PAP or 3CF involving WP. NS effect cannot be replicated in the next GE. To make matter worse, the party is jostling for space with WP in the east.

 

[3_M]

Not exactly so ... alot depends on how voters look at PAP. If more and more people are sick and tired of the PAP then it will be translated into more protest votes with little to do with the actual support level accorded to the opposition party. For example in the last GE, NSP obtained 45% of the valid votes in MP GRC but am quite sure diehard NSP supporters over there are minimal. Many are not even familiar with its agenda and the only prominent member in the team was NS.

PAP understands this very well and decided long ago to bring in new citizens as they no longer trust local bred voters any more ....

People are always cursing at PAP only to vote them in the end precisely for the fact that hey know voting for opposition or change of gov doesn't serve their interests. Unless this mentality change and people are prepare to go for the broke.

 

[yellowarse]

SPP has only 2 powerhouses - the aging Chiams - and the others will retire with them when they retire. If Tan Jee Say and Ang Yong Guan replaces them, it only means the party starts from scratch.

Fair analysis.

Lina is not a powerhouse, but CST is a powerful opposition icon (as JBJ was, and LTK still is). She is seen as CST's proxy, and her status derives from his, though less exalted of course.

TJS would do well not to usurp the Chiams, but build on their legacy by roping in more heavyweights and letting Lina take over as sec-gen to maintain that symbolic link with the CST icon.

 

[steffychun]

Fair analysis.

Lina is not a powerhouse, but CST is a powerful opposition icon (as JBJ was, and LTK still is). She is seen as CST's proxy, and her status derives from his, though less exalted of course.

TJS would do well not to usurp the Chiams, but build on their legacy by roping in more heavyweights and letting Lina take over as sec-gen to maintain that symbolic link with the CST icon.

TJS loves to gain popularity--Tried GE--fail, tried PE-fail. Now trying SPP---who will he go for next?

 

[tanwahp]

Fair analysis.

Lina is not a powerhouse, but CST is a powerful opposition icon (as JBJ was, and LTK still is). She is seen as CST's proxy, and her status derives from his, though less exalted of course.

TJS would do well not to usurp the Chiams, but build on their legacy by roping in more heavyweights and letting Lina take over as sec-gen to maintain that symbolic link with the CST icon.

When I say "powerhouse" I mean power holder within the party, either by position, natural respect or exertion. "Powerhouse" is not same as "icon".

There is no need to usurp the Chiams. TJS and AYG are in their 50s and Lina is in her 60s. They may not be young, but they entered politics late anyway. Even if they are all young, they need to learn to work together, otherwise they can't build a critical mass.

 

[steffychun]

When I say "powerhouse" I mean power holder within the party, either by position, natural respect or exertion. "Powerhouse" is not same as "icon".

There is no need to usurp the Chiams. TJS and AYG are in their 50s and Lina is in her 60s. They may not be young, but they entered politics late anyway. Even if they are all young, they need to learn to work together, otherwise they can't build a critical mass.

there is a diff "no need" and "definitely will". The latter applies to opportunists like TJS

 

[yellowarse]

When I say "powerhouse" I mean power holder within the party, either by position, natural respect or exertion. "Powerhouse" is not same as "icon".

'Powerhouse' is not the same as 'icon', agreed. But a power holder is not necessarily a powerhouse politician. Is John Tan (Asst. Sec-Gen, SDP) a powerhouse? Or for that matter, Sebastian Teo (President, NSP)?

Ask any neutral voter and 10 to 1 they'll say that Lina is not a 'powerhouse', whatever it means.

There is no need to usurp the Chiams. TJS and AYG are in their 50s and Lina is in her 60s. They may not be young, but they entered politics late anyway. Even if they are all young, they need to learn to work together, otherwise they can't build a critical mass.

My point exactly, but see what happened with Ben Pwee and Wilfred Leung's attempted coup?

 

[SlickJon]

seems like politics in singapore is mostly personality driven -

PAP: LKY
WP: LTK
SPP: CST
SDP: CSJ
RP: KJ
NSP: Nicole Seah

if any of these people leave the party, it will be interesting to see how they all play out..

 

[metalmickey]

seems like politics in singapore is mostly personality driven -

PAP: LKY
WP: LTK
SPP: CST
SDP: CSJ
RP: KJ
NSP: Nicole Seah

if any of these people leave the party, it will be interesting to see how they all play out..

Some of these things are true, but:

WP: I see plenty of WP ppl here saying things that I wouldn't have expected coming out from LTK's mouth. Unless those things are what LTK really says in private.

SDP: CSJ has not stood for elections in 10 years. How many of the old Holland Bukit Timah team are people in the same mould as CSJ?

NSP: Nicole Seah may be the most famous person in that party, but that's like saying that Hazel Tan and Jeanette Chong don't exist.

And you forgot to mention DPP, which is Ben Pwee's new party.

 

[metalmickey]

When I say "powerhouse" I mean power holder within the party, either by position, natural respect or exertion. "Powerhouse" is not same as "icon".

There is no need to usurp the Chiams. TJS and AYG are in their 50s and Lina is in her 60s. They may not be young, but they entered politics late anyway. Even if they are all young, they need to learn to work together, otherwise they can't build a critical mass.

That's the funny thing about Chiam See Tong. For me the Ben Pwee affair was very badly handled. You have a stroke, you probably will never be MP again, and you still aren't thinking about handing your party over to the next guy? What the hell was CST thinking. And now, he's got to make a deal with the next guy who's coming that way - Tan Jee Say. Well TJS has always wanted a party of his own, but if he screws this one up, then it's the end for him. So this is either his greatest gift or his greatest curse.

 

[tanwahp]

WP: I see plenty of WP ppl here saying things that I wouldn't have expected coming out from LTK's mouth. Unless those things are what LTK really says in private.

I think you are contradicting yourself. You insist that "WP ppl" (supporters) need to speak in a similar tone to WP, then you express surprise that the things WP supporters say does not seem to come from WP.

Everyone including party supporters is entitled to their view and yes, certain things PAP/WP/SDP supporters say may not be agreed upon by the party if the party gets to hear it, or contradict their party's manifesto/position - which is why they should not be deemed to be speaking in official capacity.

 

[tanwahp]

My point exactly, but see what happened with Ben Pwee and Wilfred Leung's attempted coup?

I am not sure what was the coup about. The public information was that there were disagreements and the group left. Disagreements are not the same as a coup.

 

[metalmickey]

I think you are contradicting yourself. You insist that "WP ppl" (supporters) need to speak in a similar tone to WP, then you express surprise that the things WP supporters say does not seem to come from WP.

Everyone including party supporters is entitled to their view and yes, certain things PAP/WP/SDP supporters say may not be agreed upon by the party if the party gets to hear it, or contradict their party's manifesto/position - which is why they should not be deemed to be speaking in official capacity.

No. I was answering to the guy who said that the WP is a personality driven organisation. Then I'd be surprised that the WP people would be saying things (ie alliance with other parties led by WP) that contradict the official position.

Anyway since we're on that topic, there are very different levels.

1. What a WP person thinks.
2. What a WP person says in private to another WP person.
3. What a WP person says in an online forum under cover of anonymity
4. What a WP person says in official WP communications
5. What a WP person says in media interviews.

We can all agree that 1 and 2 are private, and 4 and 5 are public. There is no problem when public and private contradict each other.

3 is the truly grey area. Suppose you put up an avatar with this big hammer on it, do you really want to be saying things that LTK wouldn't normally say? Or maybe you're working for LTK, and you're testing the waters, and seeing how certain ideas get received. I don't know if other political parties do likewise on sammyboy.

Anyway, I seem to be jinxing Hazel Poa. The moment I remind people that Hazel Poa is still the leader of NSP, she has to step down. Kenna sai.

 

[tanwahp]

Anyway since we're on that topic, there are very different levels.

1. What a WP person thinks.
2. What a WP person says in private to another WP person.
3. What a WP person says in an online forum under cover of anonymity
4. What a WP person says in official WP communications
5. What a WP person says in media interviews.

We can all agree that 1 and 2 are private, and 4 and 5 are public. There is no problem when public and private contradict each other.

3 is the truly grey area. Suppose you put up an avatar with this big hammer on it, do you really want to be saying things that LTK wouldn't normally say? Or maybe you're working for LTK, and you're testing the waters, and seeing how certain ideas get received. I don't know if other political parties do likewise on sammyboy.

You need to first define what your "people" and "level" means. I presumptuously assumed your "ppl" meant supporters as it would be inane to think WP actually has a voice in Sammyboy, but from this post, your definition is too wide and unspecific.

What is a "WP person"? Just like, what is a "Microsoft person" or an "Apple person"? A "WP person" who gets to be the face of official WP communications (4) is unlikely to be the same level as a "WP person" who posts anonymously in forums (3) hence cannot act in the same manner because they do not have the same information.