Breaking: Tan Jee Say & Ang Yong Guan to join SPP

[metalmickey]

WP never feared anyone contesting in PEBE. In fact WP leaders were taken aback that SDP pulled out. WP had already factored in SDP's participation and may have been disappointed it was not contesting. I too was actually hoping SDP would contest. That was my consistent refrain in SBF during the time SDP was thinking of contesting. Never did I say SDP don't contest. Quite the reverse.

SDP most probably (since I don't talk to them) knew that there were two most probable outcomes.

1. SDP gets more than 10%: that would have been a bad outcome for WP, WP would have lost that election. It would also be bad for SDP, because they would have been blamed as the spoilers, and during that pan-opposition meeting that takes place 1-2 years before a GE, they would have lost their bargaining power for seats.

2. SDP gets less than 10%: this was the most probable outcome because of tactical voting. It would have been extremely bad for SDP because it would have made them look really bad. Same outcome, they would have lost their bargaining power for seats.

They were kind of silly because they went all the way to printing the posters, believing until then that there was a possibility that WP would not contest.

Now, about the WP. I would agree with LTK when he says that opposition unity is a fleeting dream. But when the WP is willing to go to the other extreme and wish that the SDP would take part in the BE so that they can get killed, it is very very bad form. I wish you hadn't told me that: it makes the WP look really bad! So you know why LTK has to be very discreet when talking about other opposition parties ...

Also, we both know that KJ's political career is dead. No point speaking ill of the dead.

The interesting question now is: why did TJS decide to join a political party that was not SDP? TJS is still a good fit for SDP.

 

[3_M]

Well, there are people who always get deserted by their own party members, but still manage to get elected time after time. People like Chiam See Tong. K Jeyaretnam, at least for me, still made a lot of good points querying what happened to all the Temasek money, and feeding questions to Christopher Balding. Even though there were a whole lot of factors which made him unelectable. Like that bloody British accent.

Less than 2% is less than 5%. The 5% figure was based on what Desmond polled in GE 2011, which is my main point - the 4% of the people, the majority of the people who voted Desmond in 2011 took this information into account and voted against Desmond. And in spite of the fact that there were some people who still voted KJ, the combined total was less than 2%. This was an election that was expected to be very very tight and not the relatively comfortable margin of victory that it turned out to be. Everybody knew how three cornered fights work because of the presidential elections. Everybody knew that a vote for KJ or DL would potentially mean the difference between colorectal surgeon and LLL winning that seat. So they voted for WP. It was the tactical voting that killed KJ.

At least SDP understood tactical voting well enough to realise that they had to either win that seat or not contest at all.

Ideology based opposition supporters are people who hold dearly to their beliefs and is unlikely to vote tactically just for the sake of denying PAP the victory because to them, both WP and PAP are just as bad. Thus I don't suppose the percentage of tactical voters is significant enough. People who dislike WP would most likely spoil their votes or vote for either DL or KJ.

 

[metalmickey]

Ideology based opposition supporters are people who hold dearly to their beliefs and is unlikely to vote tactically just for the sake of denying PAP the victory because to them, both WP and PAP are just as bad. Thus I don't suppose the percentage of tactical voters is significant enough. People who dislike WP would most likely spoil their votes or vote for either DL or KJ.

Well you clearly don't understand tactical voting. People who dislike the WP would vote PAP because voting PAP causes more damage to the WP than voting DL or KJ.

 

[ray_of_hope]

Now, about the WP. I would agree with LTK when he says that opposition unity is a fleeting dream. But when the WP is willing to go to the other extreme and wish that the SDP would take part in the BE so that they can get killed, it is very very bad form. I wish you hadn't told me that: it makes the WP look really bad! So you know why LTK has to be very discreet when talking about other opposition parties ...

There is no such thing as opposition unity. When WP won 6 seats in GE2011 it received congratulatory messages from all other opposition parties (even from RP) except SDP. When CSJ wrote a piece in the Guardian newspaper on GE2011 a day after the event, he tended to portray himself as a major political player. The WP was not mentioned at all. CSJ's disclosure of correspondence between himself and WP leaders in the lead up to PEBE is also worth mentioning. All these episodes amount to ill-will, and yet the ill-will demonstrated by one party still allows it to expect that another party to treat it kindly? That is typical behaviour of CSJ and his acolytes. They spew nonsense her and elsewhere and then tell people (i.e., their "WP brothers") not to react negatively.

Any reaction that will occur, will occur in the political arena offline.

 

[steffychun]

There is no such thing as opposition unity. When WP won 6 seats in GE2011 it received congratulatory messages from all other opposition parties (even from RP) except SDP. When CSJ wrote a piece in the Guardian newspaper on GE2011 a day after the event, he tended to portray himself as a major political player. The WP was not mentioned at all. CSJ's disclosure of correspondence between himself and WP leaders in the lead up to PEBE is also worth mentioning. All these episodes amount to ill-will, and yet the ill-will demonstrated by one party still allows it to expect that another party to treat it kindly? That is typical behaviour of CSJ and his acolytes. They spew nonsense her and elsewhere and then tell people (i.e., their "WP brothers") not to react negatively.

Any reaction that will occur, will occur in the political arena offline.

CSP is an attention speaker. Protest at WB-IMF meeting about democracy when the event was about global development and finance. Hunger Protest (and later on glucouse) just becasue he thinks he is right. Then "you run town council, I enter parliament". He must never ever enter Singapore politics.

 

[metalmickey]

There is no such thing as opposition unity. When WP won 6 seats in GE2011 it received congratulatory messages from all other opposition parties (even from RP) except SDP. When CSJ wrote a piece in the Guardian newspaper on GE2011 a day after the event, he tended to portray himself as a major political player. The WP was not mentioned at all. CSJ's disclosure of correspondence between himself and WP leaders in the lead up to PEBE is also worth mentioning. All these episodes amount to ill-will, and yet the ill-will demonstrated by one party still allows it to expect that another party to treat it kindly? That is typical behaviour of CSJ and his acolytes. They spew nonsense her and elsewhere and then tell people (i.e., their "WP brothers") not to react negatively.

Any reaction that will occur, will occur in the political arena offline.

Yeh it's not like the SDP have behaved very well in the past but if the WP were to keep on slagging off the SDP, they would also look more bad than the SDP. Opposition unity is optional but avoiding confrontation is mandatory. If I were LTK or SL I would have slapped you for saying you want SDP to die (by participating in PEBE).

Look at all the house visits that the SDP is putting up now. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Oh yeah what about SDP being one of the first parties to rule themselves out of contesting Hougang BE?

 

[3_M]

Well you clearly don't understand tactical voting. People who dislike the WP would vote PAP because voting PAP causes more damage to the WP than voting DL or KJ.

It precisely because of PAP that why people dislike WP. To them it makes no difference between PAP and WP. Both are non-starter to them. Why should they help either one when they have the choices of KJ and DL on top of spoiling their votes? Btw I am one of the tactical voter who choose TCB over TJS.

 

[3_M]

WP never feared anyone contesting in PEBE. In fact WP leaders were taken aback that SDP pulled out. WP had already factored in SDP's participation and may have been disappointed it was not contesting. I too was actually hoping SDP would contest. That was my consistent refrain in SBF during the time SDP was thinking of contesting. Never did I say SDP don't contest. Quite the reverse.

u have to make it clear if this is a personal opinion or insider news. I would think in joining the contest in PE both KJ and DL are seen as spoiler by the opposition camps, not only so, they lose the moral high ground if others contest in their 'turf' in the next GE.

 

[3_M]

Yeh it's not like the SDP have behaved very well in the past but if the WP were to keep on slagging off the SDP, they would also look more bad than the SDP. Opposition unity is optional but avoiding confrontation is mandatory. If I were LTK or SL I would have slapped you for saying you want SDP to die (by participating in PEBE).

Look at all the house visits that the SDP is putting up now. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Oh yeah what about SDP being one of the first parties to rule themselves out of contesting Hougang BE?

Don't think WP wants SDP to contest as sending in a heavyweight like VW will surely shave a few more percentage off from WP. But the way I see, WP stance is if anyone wants to contest, it their right to do so and there is nothing WP can do to ask them not to contest vice versa.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Don't think WP wants SDP to contest as sending in a heavyweight like VW will surely shave a few more percentage off from WP. But the way I see, WP stance is if anyone wants to contest, it their right to do so and there is nothing WP can do to ask them not to contest vice versa.

I viewed WP as pretty agnostic about the whole thing. Up to the final two days of campaigning no one had any idea WP stood a good chance of winning outright. I remember very clearly only those ground personnel who walked daily with WP knew the sentiment was in favour of an outright win. Internet warriors and backbenchers had no clue.

WP is not concerned with 3CFs in general because they think the best strategy is simply to be indifferent about it. They don't believe in opposition unity. And they know their party brand is the strongest by a mile. Since 3CFs are going to be unavoidable in by-elections as well as in future GEs, why waste energy trying to avoid or even analyse it? Just take it as it comes and make sure your own party brand stands out stronger than ALL your opponents. Just be sure that you are 100% focussed on engaging the people at the ground level and leave all the petty squabbling and talk about oppo unity to the lesser parties. That is the WP strategy, and its correct one.

 

[methink]

I viewed WP as pretty agnostic about the whole thing. Up to the final two days of campaigning no one had any idea WP stood a good chance of winning outright. I remember very clearly only those ground personnel who walked daily with WP knew the sentiment was in favour of an outright win. Internet warriors and backbenchers had no clue.

WP is not concerned with 3CFs in general because they think the best strategy is simply to be indifferent about it. They don't believe in opposition unity. And they know their party brand is the strongest by a mile. Since 3CFs are going to be unavoidable in by-elections as well as in future GEs, why waste energy trying to avoid or even analyse it? Just take it as it comes and make sure your own party brand stands out stronger than ALL your opponents. Just be sure that you are 100% focussed on engaging the people at the ground level and leave all the petty squabbling and talk about oppo unity to the lesser parties. That is the WP strategy, and its correct one.

Is the correct one?
I think it is more like this: let the other opposition parties fight it out in constituencies we do not have the ppl for. Let them test the ground sentiments. We can come in and sapu all when we are ready.

But you are correct in this: "They don't believe in opposition unity."
WP think of themselves as THE only alternative to PAP. All others are inferior and unimportant to them. This kind of thinking is no better than the PAP.

And Metalmickey is right on the tactical voting part.
I dislike the WP for feeling high and mighty and for being uncooperative on opposition unity. I will vote WP as my distaste for the PAP is greater. But this does not mean that I am with the WP. On the contrary, I dislike them for what they are... a pseudo opposition party.

If WP is a responsible and true opposition, then why are they not striving for opposition unity? Their inertia and disinterest says it all.

 

[tanwahp]

Now, about the WP. I would agree with LTK when he says that opposition unity is a fleeting dream. But when the WP is willing to go to the other extreme and wish that the SDP would take part in the BE so that they can get killed, it is very very bad form. I wish you hadn't told me that: it makes the WP look really bad! So you know why LTK has to be very discreet when talking about other opposition parties ...

I think it would have been a very good showdown between the 2 more prominent opposition parties. I also think WP and their supporters would see it more that way - good support test - rather than to "kill off" SDP.

Never mind that SDP doesn't stand out in getting votes but they have and are very proud of their unique identity. No other opposition party has significant unique supporters other than WP, except SDP. Few opposition supporters who doesn't like WP come from any other camp other than SDP.

On SDP's side, over the years and especially in Punggol East, they sound more confident than other opposition parties in maintaining a lead when clashing with PAP and WP.

So I don't see why not.

 

[SgParent]

If WP is a responsible and true opposition, then why are they not striving for opposition unity? Their inertia and disinterest says it all.

if "striving for oppo unity" is a prerequisite then we have no responsible and true oppo at all.... sad

 

[tanwahp]

If WP is a responsible and true opposition, then why are they not striving for opposition unity? Their inertia and disinterest says it all.

I can say that even if WP starts leading an opposition united front tomorrow, it will be against having SDP on board, for at least the present generation.

All these years, the things SDP said and done, you have reduced the trust level to be able to bridge anything.

WP has not offered the same kind of unity to SPP and NSP, and you don't see either of these 2 parties trying to ruffle WP under the guise of progressiveness like the way SDP did.

 

[SgParent]

I think it would have been a very good showdown between the 2 more prominent opposition parties. I also think WP and their supporters would see it more that way - good support test - rather than to "kill off" SDP.

actually i also dun see where and how any1 got that "kill off" interpretation from.... the best any1 could try to twist and turn that p.e b.e episode is to say wp wanted sdp to "commit suicide"

 

[3_M]

If WP is a responsible and true opposition, then why are they not striving for opposition unity? Their inertia and disinterest says it all.

opposition unity never exist since independence and it unfair to pin the blame on one party. If u think about unity as in the form of avoiding 3Cf, then I can show u countless examples of 3CF not involving WP. Opposition unity can only exist if there is parity of strength with each opposition party so that they can capitalise on each other strengths. The arrangement must be a win-win setting and not one riding on the coattail of the stronger one.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I hope that you guys who supported WP walking or threatening 3 corner or multi-corners fight will remember your words written here forever. If there is any other parties walking into Aljunied, East Coast, Hougang, Punggol East, Yishun during next GE, please don't KPKB hor.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[SgParent]

If there is any other parties walking into Aljunied, East Coast, Hougang, Punggol East, Yishun during next GE, please don't KPKB hor.

Goh Meng Seng

you mean like how you did about m-k grc, after you'd chickened out when wp wanted to contest there?

i think the b.e in both hougang smc and p.e showed that wp really dun object 3cf. whether they bochap, welcome or even hope to "kill off" other oppos is up to interpretation/twist-and-turn of individual

 

[tanwahp]

I hope that you guys who supported WP walking or threatening 3 corner or multi-corners fight will remember your words written here forever. If there is any other parties walking into Aljunied, East Coast, Hougang, Punggol East, Yishun during next GE, please don't KPKB hor.

Other parties have already walked into Punggol East and the result is clear.

It's not a testament for WP to be arrogant over this, but neither should other parties arrogantly think that they can get to where WP is with half of WP's effort and heart.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

There will also be changes and change is the only constant in the universe.

Goh Meng Seng

you mean like how you did about m-k grc, after you'd chickened out when wp wanted to contest there?

i think the b.e in both hougang smc and p.e showed that wp really dun object 3cf. whether they bochap, welcome or even hope to "kill off" other oppos is up to interpretation/twist-and-turn of individual