Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

[Eisenhut]

EV charging can be quick if utilise NIO battery replacement tech.

Currently using too much power to produce hydrogen. But chemical method may be the development that will Bring cost down.

NIO is going against worldwide infrastructure trend. U can't just build charging stations and discard them for battery swap.

Battery swap exist only in China. Huge investment required for niche infrastructure battery swap.

 

[Dr Christopher Cheok C S]

 

[Dr Christopher Cheok C S]

 

[syed putra]

The consumers can only buy a limited number if cars. With new EV manufacturers flooding the market, taking 50% of car sales in China, there will be a bloodbath with several legacies folding up.
US just postponed it's penalties on ICE cars otherwise it's automobile brand may go bust.
GM and VW biggest car market used to be China. Now both are in trouble and quickly revamping their EV's but mostly for China market.

 

[bushtucker]

EVs make sense only if the grid is powered by renewable energy. Otherwise, it's still fossil fuel depedent, despite having minimal emissions at point of use. In the US, Big Oil is king, hence the slow transition to renewables.

The greater impact to the environment comes from the disposal of batteries: EV batteries are not really designed to be recycle, and waste management is a looming problem as EV population increases.

Precisely. EVs are getting energy in another form but the source of energy is largely the same i.e. burning of fossil fuels.

 

[ChinaCommunistSG]

EV car is the same as China stock, can buy but cannot resale. There is almost no resale value for ev car

 

[LordElrond]

EVs will soon be like mobile phones. Buy them new, use for 8 years and ditch them. That is why it is worthwhile only if cheap. Manufacturers should start thinking about recycling technology.

 

[ChinaCommunistSG]

EVs will soon be like mobile phones. Buy them new, use for 8 years and ditch them. That is why it is worthwhile only if cheap. Manufacturers should start thinking about recycling technology.

But I can drive Toyota for 20 yrs .

In Australia there are many people who drive Toyota for 30 yrs

 

[LordElrond]

Deleted

 

[LordElrond]

But I can drive Toyota for 20 yrs .

In Australia there are many people who drive Toyota for 30 yrs

I change my car every 3 years. Life is short, enjoy!

 

[LordElrond]

EV works for China. Many of the models are below RMB100k. EV works for MY and Thailand as well. In Thailand the BYD Seal which does 0-100kmh in 3.8 secs cost 1.65m THB (circa 60k SGD) which is cheaper than their price of a Camry. In Malaysia the price range is about the same. When you buy a BYD, it includes home charging point installation and the warranty is 8 years. The govt support in these 2 countries are massive. GWM already has a factory in Rayong and BYD is about to construct a factory in Thailand as well. The economic benefits to these countries are significant. MG is already very common in Thailand. There are also significant benefits when cars on the road are less than 8 years old - less pollution, less breakdown, less accidents, less noise, improved productivity.

 

[ChanRasjid]

EV works for China. Many of the models are below RMB100k. EV works for MY and Thailand as well. In Thailand the BYD Seal which does 0-100kmh in 3.8 secs cost 1.65m THB (circa 60k SGD) which is cheaper than their price of a Camry. In Malaysia the price range is about the same. When you buy a BYD, it includes home charging point installation and the warranty is 8 years. The govt support in these 2 countries are massive. GWM already has a factory in Rayong and BYD is about to construct a factory in Thailand as well. The economic benefits to these countries are significant. MG is already very common in Thailand. There are also significant benefits when cars on the road are less than 8 years old - less pollution, less breakdown, less accidents, less noise, improved productivity.

Your argument that EV "works" for China, Malaysia and Thailand is subjective. It is well known that very often, governments are corrupt or make very bad policies. They may seem to be working because of government subsidies; the governments may not realize the hidden cost of EVs.

Evs does not address the fossil fuel problem; in fact it may exacerbate it!
1) hidden cost (I) - At power station, you convert fossil fuel burning into electrical energy and there is a cost entailed. Burning gasoline in ICE converts heat direct to mechanical power without having to pass through the grid.
2) hidden cost (II) - you need to store and discharge(when EVs run) the electrical energy with your system of batteries. The cost of battery + future recycling is a big hidden cost. The market cost of batteries may not reflect the true cost to the whole world. Congo is being destroyed for mining cobalt and lithium.

1) & 2) are not what the politicians understand. China especially has a track record of very many bad policies - one child policy since the 1970s, property bust, financial bust, zero-covid policy, etc... Malaysia and Thailand have to have their corruption involved expose in years to come.

Why E=mc² is invalid:
http://www.emc2fails.com

Chan Rasjid,
Singapore.

 

[superpower]

If anything, it's all about the software and self driving capability. And currently Tesla is way ahead in charging infrastructure and software. Plus lead time.
The Japanese were the first with EV's but it was half hearted attempt or they started way too early before battery technology was available to make it feasible. Nissan Leaf is a good example.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/E...ltrafast-EV-chargers-in-China-taking-on-Tesla

Huawei rolls out ultrafast EV chargers in China, taking on Tesla​

'1 km-per-second' stations cater to increasingly advanced battery tech

GUANGZHOU -- Huawei Technologies plans to install 100,000 fast EV-charging stations in China this year, including units more than twice as fast as Tesla's, providing infrastructure that could give a boost to fast-charging vehicles from Chinese automakers.

A charging station advertising 1 kilometer of range for every second of charging can be found in the parking lot of a shopping center in Huawei's home city of Shenzhen, with "600kW" shown beneath the Huawei logo.

The ultrafast charger was developed by Huawei subsidiary Huawei Digital Power, which had produced charger parts but is now making a full-scale foray into complete stations.

"We need 1 km-per-second charging in order to give drivers the same experience as refueling" a gas-powered vehicle, Huawei Digital Power's Liu Dawei said at an event in Hangzhou in mid-December.

The company will sell the chargers to operators of charging facilities. It plans to install a total of 100,000 units, including 250-kilowatt chargers, in locations such as commercial facilities and highway service areas by the end of 2024.

Based on the assumptions used by Huawei for its 1 km-per-second figure -- an electric vehicle equipped with an 80-kilowatt-hour battery and a range of 600 km -- a full charge could theoretically be completed in about 8 minutes. Actual charging times would vary depending on temperature and the battery's remaining capacity.

The charger's output of 600 kW is among the highest in the world. Tesla's Supercharger has a maximum output of 250 kW in China. Under the same conditions as Huawei's estimate, a full charge using Tesla equipment would take about 19 minutes.

Huawei says its charger can be used with all EVs, including Tesla's.

Increasing the output of a charger also increases the amount of heat it generates. Huawei overcame this hurdle with a cooling system that uses liquid coolant. Most chargers use cooling fans.

While Huawei's mainstay business is telecommunications, it is also involved in cellular base stations and solar power generation. In developing its EV chargers, it appears to have incorporated communications and weather-resistance technology it honed in those areas.

Its entry into chargers rose from the emerging need for equipment that can keep up with improvements in battery performance.

Last August, world battery leader CATL announced a new battery that can charge 400 km of range in 10 minutes. State-owned Chery Automobile and an EV startup to which Huawei provides autonomous-driving systems have decided to use the battery.

China had 2.7 million public charging stations at the end of 2023, according to the China Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure Promotion Alliance. The number is expected to increase 40% in 2024, but only some will support fast charging.

"The number is insufficient in light of the increasing number of EVs that need fast charging," Huawei said.

Tesla has led the way in developing a fast-charger network. It began installing them in China in 2014 and had over 11,000 in place as of November. However, most can charge only Tesla vehicles. The American company said in 2023 it was opening some up to other EVs, but this applies to only around 20% of its stations.

Among Chinese players, EV startup Xpeng Motors had installed ultrafast chargers with a maximum output of 480 kW at more than 200 locations as of August 2023. Major charging station operators TELD and Star Charge are also installing ultrafast chargers.

If Huawei's chargers, which are compatible with all automakers, become widespread, that could provide a tailwind for Chinese companies making EVs that support fast charging.

Huawei will focus on the domestic market for now, but it has not ruled out expanding overseas.

 

[k1976]

EV's work very well in cities. But it's not good long distance due to slow charging. In US and Australia, best stick to ICE or hybrids.

Existing battery tech does not work well at extreme temperatures

 

[LordElrond]

Your argument that EV "works" for China, Malaysia and Thailand is subjective. It is well known that very often, governments are corrupt or make very bad policies. They may seem to be working because of government subsidies; the governments may not realize the hidden cost of EVs.

Evs does not address the fossil fuel problem; in fact it may exacerbate it!
1) hidden cost (I) - At power station, you convert fossil fuel burning into electrical energy and there is a cost entailed. Burning gasoline in ICE converts heat direct to mechanical power without having to pass through the grid.
2) hidden cost (II) - you need to store and discharge(when EVs run) the electrical energy with your system of batteries. The cost of battery + future recycling is a big hidden cost. The market cost of batteries may not reflect the true cost to the whole world. Congo is being destroyed for mining cobalt and lithium.

1) & 2) are not what the politicians understand. China especially has a track record of very many bad policies - one child policy since the 1970s, property bust, financial bust, zero-covid policy, etc... Malaysia and Thailand have to have their corruption involved expose in years to come.

Why E=mc² is invalid:
http://www.emc2fails.com

Chan Rasjid,
Singapore.

China has the massive amount of natural resources to power the EV industry. Guess who started the argument of "clean energy"? The angmos. Angmos have realised they can't compete with China in this technology, not in this century, therefore they start singing a new tune "EVs are worse than ICE" or loser Japan saying "hydrogen is better" when it is already a proven flop. It will be naive to think "politicians don't understand". Politicians are the servants of lobbying groups who are their paymasters, they simply act according to instructions. I won't even argue about which technology is better, EV or ICE or hydrogen. Traditional car companies can continue with ICE or be it hybrid or hydrogen. But to start talking shit about how EVs destroy environment is a big joke. Just go dig out the literature of how EVs are great for environment - the very same story perpetuated by the angmos at the beginning of the game. The inevitability is, Chinese EVs have shaken up the industry and it will never be the same again. The Traditional companies from the very basic Toyota to luxury brands will all lose a big chunk of market share.

I wouldn't start judging how good or bad China policies have been. One child policy is bad? It was needed at that time of exploding population and it was reversed when greater need of young population arose. Otherwise China would have become a shithole like India today. india "won" and their population has overtaken/is overtaking China because they allowed the population to breed uncontrollably and what have they become? Property boom and bust happens in every country.

 

[syed putra]

EV works for China. Many of the models are below RMB100k. EV works for MY and Thailand as well. In Thailand the BYD Seal which does 0-100kmh in 3.8 secs cost 1.65m THB (circa 60k SGD) which is cheaper than their price of a Camry. In Malaysia the price range is about the same. When you buy a BYD, it includes home charging point installation and the warranty is 8 years. The govt support in these 2 countries are massive. GWM already has a factory in Rayong and BYD is about to construct a factory in Thailand as well. The economic benefits to these countries are significant. MG is already very common in Thailand. There are also significant benefits when cars on the road are less than 8 years old - less pollution, less breakdown, less accidents, less noise, improved productivity.

Currently both thailand and jiu hu sells electric cars tax free i think. Or very minimal. Unlike thailand, you need to buy EV import permits from those umno buggers in jiu hu. These are reforms anwar has failed to abolish. So instead of paying taxes to gomen, you pay taxes to umno members and ruling elites. That is why RM so weak.

 

[LordElrond]

Currently both thailand and jiu hu sells electric cars tax free i think. Or very minimal. Unlike thailand, you need to buy EV import permits from those umno buggers in jiu hu. These are reforms anwar has failed to abolish. So instead of paying taxes to gomen, you pay taxes to umno members and ruling elites. That is why RM so weak.

Still, EVs are cheaper in Malaysia than angmo countries.

 

[MaximiLian]

Having EV is stressful if u stay in HDB or condo. You get penalties if u don't drive away your vehicle within stipulated time frame after charging in HDB or Mall carparks. Then if you stay in landed, it is not fast-charging, most models gotta wait 6-8 hours at least for full charge. Singapore is not ready for EV. Even if you are landed, some are using single phase electricity, so imagine your house's aircon to be all activated at night along with your wife using oven while charging your EV.

The good thing about EV is that, there is little for servicing eg. you hardly change brakes in ten years. EV's running cost is about 50-67% lower (the savings are good if your mileage is very high, but if your mileage is very high, your battery life is shorter. Therefore battery warranty (Years and Mileage) are very important, eg. min. 7 years.

Recent changes place EV models to CAT B COE, so some EV companies shipped buay gan models to Singapore to meet CAT A COE requirements.

Citroen also selling their EV for below $150,000 including COE, but I don't know they are good or not.

In Singapore, you don't buy EV, you will be taxed higher. Something in between will be Hybrid cars.

thankz all 4 ze advise.
look like i will hold my horses 4 now.







tis video explain how norway succeed becos of itz abundant renewable energy resources but USA n spore has no such luxury.

 

[Dr Christopher Cheok C S]

tis video explain how norway succeed becos of itz abundant renewable energy resources but USA n spore has no such luxury.

Norway is cold country, EV is also not suitable. When it is super cold, EVs can't start.

Friend in Korea told me that was it is cold (not super cold), eg. 5 degree celsius, his EV's mileage is only 1/3 for full charge.

Singapore don't have the operating environment issue but our CAT A EVs all tiny capacity, mileage 250km in Singapore. Responsible drivers will recharge when battery strength is less than 25%, so effective mileage is like 200km. When driving to KL on full charged battery, need to stop car 2x to charge and battery less than 20% when enter KL.

 

[eatshitndie]

ev is dead. ai is king. apple just cancelled its ev project. 2000 employees will be transferred to its ai project.