Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Re: We singaporeans are all in the same boat

like i said before bro...i understand where u r coming fm n fully empathise wif u over the apparent sinicization of singapore society over the last 30 odd yrs...

however yr analogy is clearly flawed n erroneous...u appear to be moving in a dangerous irrational emotive way which sadly helps no one least of all yourself...

the 'singapore house' belongs to all singaporeans period...regardless of race,language or religion...we singaporeans all 'own' n r in this 'house' for better or for worse...

If the "Singapore house" belongs to all Singaporeans, why then are the Eurasians and Indians leaving because they have been ostracised? In fact, even some of my people have also left because they find living in here intolerable. Thankfully, the vast majority if us will not leave as we firmly believe that we should not desert our Tanah Melayu.

The problem with the Chinese is their duplicitous talk. The duplicitous talk is that Singapore is "multi-racial" (which we are more than happy to accept), "Singapore belongs to everyone", etc (which we again, are more than happy to accept as I have already stated that we are willing to accept the Chinese and our Indian and Eurasian brothers as co-owners of our land) while they blatantly practice the very opposite. They openly insult and discriminate against us, our Indian brothers and Eurasians, start importing Chinese to boost their numbers and try to turn our land into a Mandarin speaking province of China.

Deny it and let me ask you two simple questions. Why can't Dhanabalan be a Prime Minister if Singapore is indeed "multi-racial" and "belongs to every race"?
Why the "Chinese only" and "Mandarin speaking only" job policies and ads?

Contrary to your views that this is "dangerous irrational emotive", the stand and the message has been carefully thought out and this is the best way for us to go forward.

Rolling over and playing dead each time we are insulted and flogged by the Chinese through the decades have brought us nothing but further condescension and contempt from the Chinese.

The Chinese will now have to very, very carefully rethink their position of turning our island into a chang huayi province of China.

If they want to continue to live in our land, they will have to start behaving like muti-racial Singaporeans and not a bunch of intolerable chang huayi Chinese extremists and chauvinists who allow their tribal identity to eclipse their national identity and their tribal affiliations with the Malaysian Chinese, China Chinese and ethnic Chinese around the globe to eclipse their national affiliations us and our Indian and Eurasian brothers and sisters.

That multi-racial Singapore model is not something new. As imperfect as it was, it was tolerable and existed in the 50s, 60s and 70s and the very early 80s.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: We singaporeans are all in the same boat

I think I've lived "multi-racially" all my life. Even my parents and grandparents.. This is not a Chinese problem even when Chinese is in majority, this is a PAP problem with their policy of divide and rule. If Malays play into that trap, then there's also nothing much Chinese laymen to do and help. Chinese has an ancient saying, squeeze a bird gently enough just to keep alive it in your palm, but not so hard that it's killed, so that it's reliant on you at all times for mere survival. PAP is applying that to Malays and other minorities, and pinning the blame on demography. Do you realise the loudest voices against PRC immigrants are from local Chinese?

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Re: Trash this political 'animal'

There's no such thing as "higher" Malay, with apologies but have to be frank and blunt. Higher Chinese syllabus requires studies tracing back 2 to 4 millennia of civilisation and literature. Frank and blunt to the truth again, during those periods Malays hadn't even emerged from the jungles yet. I mean no disrespect to my Malay friends and compatriots, but if this the line of argument they want to take, then let's all take it with an open mind, and let's be open about it. The Arabs first taught the Malays how to write about 4 centuries ago, that's Jawi. Then the Portugese and British taught the Roman alphabet to Malays, that was about 2 to 3 centuries ago, that's the Malay Rumi we see today. Where got "higher" Malay to teach? Of course, the answer is in Islam and Arabic, that can be traced back beyond a millennium.

I will be equally blunt. Why don't you and your ilk simply pack up and return to China where you belong?

You can feel, taste and live in a setting that you clearly desire and revel in the glory of an ancient civilization which saw itself as the Middle Kingdom and which saw everyone outside its border as barbarians. In fact, with an ascendant China, you can strut around China and flaunt your Chineseness even more.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

the watermelon man

insightful povs bro...

i think it wld do any individual who is part of a majority dominant ethnic grp a whole world of gd to go live as a minority in another society/ctry for a not too insignificant period of time...then return to his majority dominant ethnic grp society/ctry hopefully abit more enlightened as to what it is like living as a minority for the foreseeable future...

reminds me of my m'sian chinese n indian schoolmates who use to travel daily across the causeway to study at my alma mater...even at that youthful age i found them to be more relaxed than their local counterparts n that they got onto together wifout any fuss...i noticed this more n more as i grew up n interacted wif them both here n abroad n once again back in s'pore...as the yrs went by sadly the differences hv become more stark n obvious which suggests to me once again that singapore has become much more ethnic/race conscious than before...now i dont think the chinese bear all responsibility...however i do think that harry's apparent social n political engineering in the last 30 odd yrs hv not helped matters...

btw i also encourage chaps to go watch an old 70s movie titled 'the watermelon man'...it is abt a white bigot american man who one day wakes up n finds out that he has suddenly turned black...the inevitable consequences r hilarious, sad n frightening all at the same time...

Yr pov seems rather naive. Political agenda and motives are seldom obvious. They will be sold in as transparent a manner as possible so even those who are targets will not know them. Examples of the political agenda are SAP schools, Speak mandarin campaign, and even the graduate mother scheme. One example of the target is pple like you. You also need innocent and guileless citizens to absorb the messages with religious zeal and without suspicion

Let me put it this way. LKY has always believed (I daresay it is in his blood) that only a Chinese-dominant Singapore can continue to keep Singapore going. A lot of pple ( such as the 66%) may think that as the 'modern father' of Singapore, the Great Helmsman of Singapore, his integrity and motives can't be selfish and therefore must be beyond question, and like gosh! what were we thinking?

Whether that is justified is irrelevant for now, because he has internalised his thinking into Singapore politics and govt. and that will not change until another party who thinks differently replaces the PAP. in power. E.g. LKY has cited examples over the past yrs why the Japs, and the 'tiger economies' of the Koreans, and Taiwanese and HKies have such hard driving economies because they are homogenous - no need to wait for slaggard minorities to catch up, all in one direction and high momentum etc. Ask LKY and he'll ask you to produce examples of Muslim countries (non-oil exporting) which ranked equal or better than them on the OECD.

So with the 66% like you, the PAP propaganda has worked well. LKY's Yellow Singapore policy is akin to the White Australian policy. The PAP govt has said as much when various Ministers led by the PM and old man, admitted to a grand open door policy for Chinese and Indians; well, Indians as well because one, they are also hungry and prepared to slog, and two, to help camouflage the Yellow policy.

What you and I experienced are at the street level. Obviously we dont seem to feel that we are directly discriminating or making Malays feel left out, but the fact is, they do feel that way, and going by the sometimes heated discussions, there are emotional reactions.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Re: Market Economy = Chinese Values????

since when was market economy derived fm "chinese values"?...

Since the Chinese have been marketing themselves as such.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Language to language. Malays speak Malay to Malay, Chinese speak Chinese to Chinese. What has it got to do with costumes? All of us speak basically English to each other with some mutually understood Singlish Malay or Singlish Chinese. Why not?

Those "costumes" you insulting refer to are our identity and religious markers just as your "Chang Huayi" and clearly stated "Huaren huayi" are markers of your Chinese identities.

Assert your identity and we will assert ours.

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Trash this political 'animal'

I will be equally blunt. Why don't you and your ilk simply pack up and return to China where you belong?

You can feel, taste and live in a setting that you clearly desire and revel in the glory of an ancient civilization which saw itself as the Middle Kingdom and which saw everyone outside its border as barbarians. In fact, with an ascendant China, you can strut around China and flaunt your Chineseness even more.

You'd have to kill me and transport my remains to China if you want me go "back" to China. It's not even "back." I'm born in Singapore. Ethnicity and nationality are two different things. I'd kill PRC or ROC soldiers if they'd invade us.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Re: this is not a zero sum game

then i hope u think rationally long n hard...without emotion...perhaps then u n yr ilk shall realise that this is not a zero sum game...same goes for our relationships wif our regional neighbours in particular u know who n u know who too!!

May not be a zero sum game for you Chinese but it certainly is to us when we are the ones getting the zeros.

If we had not been rational, our young hotheads would have taken matters into their own hands.

This is a carefully thought out, calibrated response to send a message to the Chinese and to remind them of where they stand.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

do the right thing

unfortunately some cynical ones may fall into what i think alfian saat has termed "double alienation"...not only alienated fm the majority but also alienated fm their own minority grp that do not agree wif these 'values'...

I have many wonderful Malay friends and they are successful because they work hard. They work hard because they understand that nobody owes them a living and they have to make it on their own merit.

hear hear!!...try to fight the good fight n also try do the right thing

Sure, there is racism. Live is never fair; even to a Chinese.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Re: Is the ummah united?

er sorry to burst yr bubble but i hardly think they r a united lot...for instance who do the gulf arabs n the likes of say syria, egypt n jordan now fear the most?...simple clue...a 'fellow' islamic state

They are no different from the Chinese, the Taiwanese, Chinese around the globe in disunity.

But when it comes to a common enemy, the Chinese will try to close ranks even as the Western powers try to manipulate them.

Ditto for the Muslim world.

That is why you have a "global huaren" movement and "global ummah" movement.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

Re: Is the ummah united?

I'm surprised he mentioned that cause 1,000 million to 6 million and they lost.

I am equally surprised that you mentioned this as it shows you are ignorant of the fact that the 6 million won and continue to dominate on the backs of American support.

It is no different from your great country and civilization being raped, pillaged and massacred by a people living on a relatively tiny cluster of islands which relied on the help of the Germans and Russians to do so.

 

[Dreamer1]

Re: Trash this political 'animal'

You'd have to kill me and transport my remains to China if you want me go "back" to China. It's not even "back." I'm born in Singapore. Ethnicity and nationality are two different things. I'd kill PRC or ROC soldiers if they'd invade us.

My friend,Ram,I think it is not wise to continue this discussion with Mr."MALAYS MUST VOTE PAP!",he is just making use of this forum for his own "mystery" motive & make it too highly emotional!

This is my small adviCe!

 

[kingrant]

I don't blame the pap for wanting more china chinese to come in to keep the population with the same ratio of chinese. Look at MMVPAP. He admitted himself that his race likes to take it easy. If that's the case the standard of living of this country will fall. We need ppl with ambition and drive to bring this country to new heights.

Obviously 50 years of PAP propaganda has worked on you. Since you are fully subscribed to the same theory that the Chinese are key to SIN's survival, the rest should be very obvious to you too.

What is the corollary then? I shall touch on two schemes.

1. Unite the Chinese under one common language - Mandarin. Thru the language, they will discover their cultural roots to assert a collective identity. Otherwise, they will remain disparate, rootless and divisible. Thus the Speak Mandarin campaign.

2. SAP schools to provide steep induction into the language and culture. Elite schools exist already to provide top scholars to become the mandarins in the political and civil service. The SAP system is to turn them Chinese-proud; in short, Chinese chauvinists.

Without these defence mechanisms in place, imagine a strong Singapore UMNO in the future, able to rally the malays in strong affirmative actions. Together with loud strident siren voices up north with severe seductive racial undertones, where will the Singapore Chinese go?

Whether such a theory will die with the old man remains to be seen. One may not blame LKY entirely for his geopolitical beliefs, but he is nevertheless one who constantly plays up the race card. The man has a deep memory of what he went thru and the spite is still smarting after all these years after Merger, Malaysia and the Exit.

Hopefully, countries on both sides of the causeway will see new generations of leaders who are able to look far and stand above the differences and work together to ensure a symbiotic relations, instead of Singapore always talking abt leapfrogging the region and Asean.

 

[SIFU]

Mat babi,

instead of spending your time arguing with chinese bros here, you might as well spend time to tutor your fellow mat bodohs in their sch work. KNNB, ITE full of these mat losers. from ITE the next organisation they 'graduate' to is the prison.

 

[kukubird58]

hahaha....some pple felt offended by the slogan "Huaren, Huayi".
It has been repeated so I would like to offer Bird's simple view on this matter.

If the slogan is "Singaporean, Huayi" then I can see why the other races will get offended.
If the Govt want to change to official working language to Huayi, then it is obvious

If it is "Huaren, Huayi", what's wrong with that?
Do you expect Huaren (as a race) to speak only English, Malay, etc...???

Pse leave out the emotion and look at things in perspective.

Assuming if Malays (as a race) have different dialects (A, B, C, etc).
Govt launched a Speak Malay Campaign, "Malays speak Malays", is this a racial thing??? My answer is NO.
However if the theme is along the line "Singaporean, Malay" then of course I will also complaint that this is a racial thing.

Of course the other thing is about economics, China is agrowing Dragon and to trade with them/take advantage of it, it makes sense to be proficient in Huayi.
Don't be surprised that USA, Germany, French, etc are also encouraging their citizens to learn Huayi.
All these are driven by economics and nothing racial about it.

If the above explanation is not simple and clear enough for 1 to understand, then you better stick to TCSS.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear King and Porifio

If one examines MVPAPa arguments they reflect to a large extent not so much Tanah Melayu but Malay Supremacy race based nationalism and Islamic revivalism. in all essence a very poor reiteration of the Malay dilemma. His logic of the land of the Malays is impeccable and leads to the argument of Malay rights special status and finally greater affirmative rights because they as a race have been trodden down looked down on and spat on. Him as a child the mad hatter by a Chinese taxi driver, I do wonder though like mad hatter whether his overcompensatory race language and nationalism is in anyways due to his less than PURE Malay blood.

He is right though, whereas previoulsy the Chinese language and chinese language education was about race, and race identity , the Chinese language and Chinese language education needs currently are driven by commercial gains and benefits. There is a world of difference between the two but as to whether he sees it in his warped mind is a
different issue.

There will be growing chineseness in Singapore , that will be a given because of economics and trade and not because of race and racial superiority. The question that comes next is how to balance and reassure other races that Singapore remains a place for all.


Locke

 

[yellow_people]

Re: Trash this political 'animal'

My friend,Ram,I think it is not wise to continue this discussion with Mr."MALAYS MUST VOTE PAP!",he is just making use of this forum for his own "mystery" motive & make it too highly emotional!

This is quite a rich comment coming from you. Is the forum to be only used for advancing the Chinese agenda and bash all things PAP and foreigners? In your zest to bash the Indians, you forgot the Ah Neh in question is a Singaporean. Take a look at your own comments here:

http://sammyboy.com/showpost.php?p=665391&postcount=9

"MM LKY sure knows the Indian race well,and that was why he objected stronly to the possibility of getting an Indian son-in-law.

The funny thing is that he closed his eyes,know well that Indian would only employ Indians,I cant figure this one out."



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[Dreamer1]

Re: Trash this political 'animal'

This is quite a rich comment coming from you. Is the forum to be only used for advancing the Chinese agenda and bash all things PAP and foreigners? In your zest to bash the Indians, you forgot the Ah Neh in question is a Singaporean. Take a look at your own comments here:

http://sammyboy.com/showpost.php?p=665391&postcount=9

"MM LKY sure knows the Indian race well,and that was why he objected stronly to the possibility of getting an Indian son-in-law.

The funny thing is that he closed his eyes,know well that Indian would only employ Indians,I cant figure this one out."



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Hi yellow,Gong Xi fa cai

Thank s for yr comment.

Well,despite of info fr our very wel-informed & reliable Scroobal,I am now totally convinced that u are one PAP IB,despite yr official stance that you are more CSJ than CSJ.

For me,yes,I am here to whack PAP 100%+ against all the wrong policies,in my view,whether my viewe are shared by our fellow citizens,we shall wait for PAP's erections.

I have said my humble piece,I do not do any comment on racial issue,I know very well how PAP can turn the racial issues into political issues and into "warrant of arrests".Hence my warning,but just an advanced warning,whether it is taken seriously,I do not bothered,but for me,I can see those who have agendas active here in this thread.

again Scroobal:



"Absolutely. This guy(mm lky) has an agenda behind every speech, comment and word that he expresses. If you look hard enough, you will find it."

Have a nice day,my friend,there must be a better way to make a living-wish for year of Rabbit.

ah ya,that was a comment fr my heart,but if it is deem offensive,I will withdraw it immediately,since u paid so much attention to my not very bright comments.Sorry to my fellow citizens of Indian origin

 

[kingrant]

How this thread was started by Scroobal was because LKY has been basically saying that the Malays will have to be less Malay, and less of a Muslim, if they are to integrate successfully with the other races (read Chinese).

Of cos, we have talked about the tudung, halal, no alcohol etc. at the social dimension. But if we want to translate Malay stricness into serious economic terms, what was implied is also that Malays have to learn to be as greedy and materialistic and profit-oriented and calculating as the Chinese otherwise the GDP and the economy will not only be lacking their contribution but also find them acting like a ball and chain around the ankles, slowing everybody down and becoming a liability.

As we all know, Islam teaches their followers to regard profits as unIslamic and unMalay. That is why we have Islamic banking, which does not charge interest. Whether the Malays can abandon their beliefs on such aspects, is a conundrum. So there is a whole chasm to fill before Malays and Chinese and Indians can even walk together, let alone run.

I know that pple like MMVPAP want to be left alone, and if they cannot be, they dearly want to push all other races into the sea. But his views are an anachronism with the geopolitical reality of today's Singapore. He is better off channeling his thoughts and energy into reconciling the needs of a modern world with the demands of his religion. You can ask a Chinese to speak less Chinese and more Malay without being less Chinese, but to ask a Malay to be even half as greedy and calculating as a Chinese, it is like asking him to lose his identity and his moorings.

Dear King and Porifio

If one examines MVPAPa arguments they reflect to a large extent not so much Tanah Melayu but Malay Supremacy race based nationalism and Islamic revivalism. in all essence a very poor reiteration of the Malay dilemma. His logic of the land of the Malays is impeccable and leads to the argument of Malay rights special status and finally greater affirmative rights because they as a race have been trodden down looked down on and spat on.
.....

He is right though, whereas previoulsy the Chinese language and chinese language education was about race, and race identity , the Chinese language and Chinese language education needs currently are driven by commercial gains and benefits. There is a world of difference between the two but as to whether he sees it in his warped mind is a
different issue.

There will be growing chineseness in Singapore , that will be a given because of economics and trade and not because of race and racial superiority. The question that comes next is how to balance and reassure other races that Singapore remains a place for all.


Locke

 

[yellow_people]

Re: Trash this political 'animal'

Hi yellow,Gong Xi fa cai

Thank s for yr comment.

Well,despite of info fr our very wel-informed & reliable Scroobal,I am now totally convinced that u are one PAP IB,despite yr official stance that you are more CSJ than CSJ.

For me,yes,I am here to whack PAP 100%+ against all the wrong policies,in my view,whether my viewe are shared by our fellow citizens,we shall wait for PAP's erections.

Happy Chinese New Year to you too.

Having said that...

You got that completely wrong. The PAP IB are the ones that spend all their time convincing you that the ballot box is the only way to go; knowing fully well that elections can be stage-managed by the PAP. On top of that, the PAP will never allow a genuine opposition party to thrive, as long as they are in charge. The ones who urge you to go to the ballot boxes are the same ones that are critical of bonafide opposition parties like SDP.

What I'm saying is, if you're unhappy with the PAP and the political system as it is in their absolute control; stop day dreaming and stage a popular revolt. There is no other way, believe me. It has worked before and its working again in Egypt and Tunsia. Besides, several Chinese brudders in this thread believe that as they form 75% of the demographics, they are the controlling majority of Singapore. So what is the problem here?

Lastly, you need to start thinking for yourself and not be led by the nose by Scroobal et al. You claim to have held a senior management post before, therefore basic critical thinking should not be beyond you.




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