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Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Trash this political 'animal'

Happy Chinese New Year to you too.

Having said that...

You got that completely wrong. The PAP IB are the ones that spend all their time convincing you that the ballot box is the only way to go; knowing fully well that elections can be stage-managed by the PAP. On top of that, the PAP will never allow a genuine opposition party to thrive, as long as they are in charge. The ones who urge you to go to the ballot boxes are the same ones that are critical of bonafide opposition parties like SDP.

What I'm saying is, if you're unhappy with the PAP and the political system as it is in their absolute control; stop day dreaming and stage a popular revolt. There is no other way, believe me. It has worked before and its working again in Egypt and Tunsia. Besides, several Chinese brudders in this thread believe that as they form 75% of the demographics, they are the controlling majority of Singapore. So what is the problem here?

Lastly, you need to start thinking for yourself and not be led by the nose by Scroobal et al. You claim to have held a senior management post before, therefore basic critical thinking should not be beyond you.




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YaYaYa,I got little brain,useless,blah,.blah.

why I want to be known in the net as some nick-BTW,a Dreamer lumber satu, who is bery brillaint & clever,for what?

My friend,as a GM,I will straight away terminate yr service as an IB because yr ability is just below PAR,full stop.this is NOt the standard of IB I expect fr PAP,PM LHL better wake up and check the calibre of his workers.

The power was hard fought by MM LKY & his team of high calibre first generation leaders,and shall not be given away by such stupid fools.

Thanks for the opportunity u gave to me,again,if I have made some racial comments or personal attacks here,I am deeply sorry
 

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear King

I am afraid that dear old MVPAP is as delusional about economics and geo political realities as it gets. Firstly the race does not want o be as " material grubbing " etc etc as the chinese. etc etc etc. Lets be clear and distinct about the two " Islam" and " Malay". Ever been to Dubai ? Ever seen the attempts of Dubai to turn its oil and gas wealth into something sustainable, the stories of rich Arab Rulers and Oil Sheiks. That moron is in denial, heck nothing wrong with getting rich as the arabs prove aplenty , the difference is in getting rich easy and getting rich the hard way. The arabs and Islam in Arabia have it easy from oil wealth and imported labor but here at least in SEA the Malays in Singapore do not have access to that

Lets look at his abangs up north ? Who are the idiots getting rich ? As PKR and Malysia Today has pointed out in droves, its the politicians and their cronies screaming Malay Nationalism and Malays own the lands and that Malays should own the land and Malay language should be supreme who are getting rich and screwing the land and the peasants on the land.

Muslims united ? Lets talk economics if the Muslims were united Langkawi would be a fucking financial centre but the arabs are smart enough to let the smart people handle their money.

What that idiot is saying is that " he only wants to get rich if its easy money " " oil wealth " " corruption wealth" " freebies " " affirmative action" etc etc .



Locke
 

patrickv

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear King

I am afraid that dear old MVPAP is as delusional about economics and geo political realities as it gets. Firstly the race does not want o be as " material grubbing " etc etc as the chinese. etc etc etc. Lets be clear and distinct about the two " Islam" and " Malay". Malays should own the land and Malay language should be supreme who are getting rich and screwing the land and the peasants on the land.


Locke

malay pigs don't crave for material wealth?:biggrin::confused: tell that to my mat office cleaning aunty and mat security guard at my condo. both earn peanuts yet both drive cars. don't even start talking about those mats who purchased all their stuff via instalments from courts. :biggrin:
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Obviously 50 years of PAP propaganda has worked on you. Since you are fully subscribed to the same theory that the Chinese are key to SIN's survival, the rest should be very obvious to you too.

What is the corollary then? I shall touch on two schemes.

1. Unite the Chinese under one common language - Mandarin. Thru the language, they will discover their cultural roots to assert a collective identity. Otherwise, they will remain disparate, rootless and divisible. Thus the Speak Mandarin campaign.

2. SAP schools to provide steep induction into the language and culture. Elite schools exist already to provide top scholars to become the mandarins in the political and civil service. The SAP system is to turn them Chinese-proud; in short, Chinese chauvinists.

Without these defence mechanisms in place, imagine a strong Singapore UMNO in the future, able to rally the malays in strong affirmative actions. Together with loud strident siren voices up north with severe seductive racial undertones, where will the Singapore Chinese go?

Whether such a theory will die with the old man remains to be seen. One may not blame LKY entirely for his geopolitical beliefs, but he is nevertheless one who constantly plays up the race card. The man has a deep memory of what he went thru and the spite is still smarting after all these years after Merger, Malaysia and the Exit.

Hopefully, countries on both sides of the causeway will see new generations of leaders who are able to look far and stand above the differences and work together to ensure a symbiotic relations, instead of Singapore always talking abt leapfrogging the region and Asean.



You didn't quote me and just took one small portion of my post out like this. You were hoping i didn't reply?


You are wrong to force these riddiculous assumptions unto me that the pap propaganda has some how brainwashed me. :rolleyes:

I have eyes to see and a brain to think and i know the situation up north and in this country. The malays up north get rich by using state laws that promote affirmative action for their race to get rich without even working hard for it. This is a fact of life, how do you get rich and your country becomes successful unless you work for it? :rolleyes: The malays live off the sweat and tears of the non malays there and that's how they get rich.
The troll mmvp has already admitted it himself. Using the guise of being non materialistic to hide the fact that he's simply lazy and his ppl love to take it easy. Well here's another fact of life. If you don't work hard the country will lag behind. Would you rather see the standards of sg fall behind then? When malaysia and indonesia catch up that's it for sg.

Even in malaysia it's apparent. When mathatter was in office he only allowed some malays to run a fortune 500 co that was bleeding cos the ppl were incompetent and all that was fixed after somebody else in charge put some chinese ppl to turn the co around. Sg's track record has been fine so far and i shudder to think how it would act if the racial mix was changed.


How do your points 1 and 2 factor into the discussion? Okay unite the chinese using a common language. That's good isn't it? You rather they not be united? How about making it easier in terms of education too? FYI there are many other malay like racial groups in sg like javanese for eg that are sg citizens. Javanese don't speak malay but i am sure these javanese singaporeans study malay as a mother tongue. The same can be said for south indians that aren't tamilas like malayams for eg they study tamil as a MT in school. Can i then use the same logic as you have mentioned that they are trying to unite both the various malay groups and the indian groups? :rolleyes: That's not even your intention, the way you wrote those 2 points you were implying that uniting the chinese was a very bad thing cos as you know uniting the chinese dialects would create hell on earth for the non chinese minorities here. You don't write it out explicitly but it's easy to see that's your implication just by reading your post. Let me tell you that's absolutely riddiculous.

FYI there's no need to be a chinese chaunvinst by studying in a sap school. There are extremists of all races found in sg. There are english educated chinese that are western chauvinsts for eg that look down on everything chinese. How about we start banning those missionary schools like holy innocents for eg that promote these english speaking chaunvinsts. :rolleyes: Wrong i see you're only interested in simply pointing the finger and calling ppl that are proud of their chinese culture and speak in mandarin or some chinese dialect as the bad guy. The rest of them those proud of their malay heritage, indian heritage and ang moh kang tangs are allowed to be proud of those languages respectively. The minute someone is proud of his chinese heritage. He's a racist, an extremist!! :rolleyes:


You next wrote about a strong UMNO that unites the malays here despite the fact the sg isn't even politically a part of malaysia. Firstly i want to ask you what's your stand on the issue then? You're against chinese sap schools and chinese unity isn't that your stand? Yet in the 2nd part of your post you wrote that the old man created these sap schools and mandarin for the chinese to unite to counter against malay chauvinism. Thus you're actually going over to my side.

Malay chauvinism is really bad for the non malay races over in malaysia but chinese chauvinism isn't the same over here. A chinese chaunvinist has to work equally hard as a malay, indian one to prove himself.
 

yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
malay pigs don't crave for material wealth?:biggrin::confused: tell that to my mat office cleaning aunty and mat security guard at my condo. both earn peanuts yet both drive cars. don't even start talking about those mats who purchased all their stuff via instalments from courts. :biggrin:

And the "silent majority" wonder why the Malay would rather vote PAP than the Chinese dominated opposition party.



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Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
malay pigs don't crave for material wealth?:biggrin::confused: tell that to my mat office cleaning aunty and mat security guard at my condo. both earn peanuts yet both drive cars. don't even start talking about those mats who purchased all their stuff via instalments from courts. :biggrin:


That's definitely a myth these malays like to promote. They like to imply that they have nobler intentions in life that they are not materialistic and go after something "higher" in life which of course doesn't hold water. The 2 egs you have given about the security guard and the cleaning lady prove it so. They want to use that to hide their own failures, they want to get material wealth without working hard for it. How good would it be if money could just fall from the sky.

If they finally get exposed as being materialistic guess what they'll blame it on chinese influence here that made them this way. :rolleyes: In short always avoiding the blame.
 

NoelVermillion

Alfrescian
Loyal
The colour of skin in anthropology and in physiology is a product of the environment. That is empirical. God did not paint any of us. The long and short of it is quite simple. The Malays have a claim on this island as native and both you and I are not. This is an argument no politician of non-malay stock will go into unless he is playing to the non-malay gallery and therefore is clearly playing the race card.

The ideal approach is to talk about nationhood and to develop a Singapore psyche. That means to ensure that all 4 main races are given equal rights and attention. The Malays have a constitutional position that is above all others in recognition of their native status, something we should all accept gracefully.

The PAP has played the race card with SAP schools. We know that for fact. You and I cannot give a valid reason why SAP schools exist but to hold on to the language. The language interestingly is not the mother tongue of the Chinese majority but something that put the old man in equal terms with his political opponents. If mother tongue is so important, then there should have been SAP Malay, Indian and Eurasian schools. That is not the case. Look at River Valley School. It now is in old St Andrews with running track and all plus some lecture style setting. This is political.

You are product of SAP school and will never know the feeling of integration and attending school with those of other races on a daily basis. I think you will also realise that well educated parents will always send their kids to RI and missionary schools rather than SAP schools. Do you know why? A well rounded education means opening one's eyes and seeing the world. SAP in all shape and form is a political tool. It is also unfair to other non Chinese Singaporeans. Old Man closed Sang Nila Utama Malay school but chose build SAP school.

Please do think that I there would like to see the Malays or the Indians to be given special privileges. Its about time the Malays stopped whinging and whining and start carrying their own weight in society. Instead we have a clown here whose limited intellect can only allow him one argument - that he owns the land and we should all get out and that seems to be his only argument.

The only leeway that I want to see is affirmative action where the races are seen across work and other social spectrum. In our first 30 years of our existence, I saw a sprinkling of Indians and Eurasians holding senior positions in Govt right up to Perm Sec and they were all capable. You also see it in the professions such as medicine, law and accountancy. Now all you see is a sea of Chinese. So what happened. Suddenly the Indians and Eurasians became lazy, stupid or progressive turned dumb. The situation became so bad that in 2007, they went out of the Admin service to find a non-chinese Perm Sec.

Some of us have now realised that we now in a similar boat when the decision was made to allow non-citizens admission to Admin Service in 1991. With the presence of Ah Tiongs and Ah Nehs our backs are now against the wall. See the complaints from Singapore Chinese about PRC scholars, bond skipping, behaviour in the workplace. Note when the NTU lecturer ended up in hospital, it was PRC students that was constantly visiting him to suck up to him.

Get the picture. You have to make up your mind. You either aspire a Singapore for Singaporeans or protect Mandarin which is not your mother tongue but your gateway to protecting the Chinese culture in a foreign land. You can't have both.

Hi Scroobal, will be interested to hear the full story behind this. I have not read of such a case. Thanks in advance. :o
 
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Malays Must Vote PAP!

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Loyal
I know that pple like MMVPAP want to be left alone, and if they cannot be, they dearly want to push all other races into the sea.

If you have read what I had written, this is hardly true. What we cannot accept is the way the Chinese are now treating our land as a chang huayi province of China. And if they do so, our message to them is to pack up and leave for the real thing, i.e. China.

Even the Malaysian Chinese who are minorities in their own country are suddenly strutting around and trying to lord over us now that they find themselves in the "majority", forgetting that it was not too long ago, in their own country, that they were fighting for their "minority" rights.

By all means make as much money as you want. Cut each others throat in the pursuit of your wealth and material comforts, etc. We are happy to stand aside and watch the show. But don't tell us what we should do, how we should practice our faith and religion, how we should dress, how we should change our customs and culture to emulate the Chinese, etc. We are not interested.

For all those who say we Malays should stop whining and stop behaving like losers, etc and get on with the competition so that we can live the good, luxurious lives that you Chinese supposedly live and which you assume we desire, here are my two questions to you.

1. Why are you not heeding your own advice to work hard and overcome the competition posed by FTs, PRs and New Citizens instead of whinging day and night about losing your jobs, places and positions in schools, etc to them?

2. Aren't your "Singaporean First - (Note: "Chinese First" actually) demands not the affirmative actions that you look down in contempt when you think we Malays are actually asking for such affirmative actions?

Two simple questions. And it exposes the hypocrisy and duplicity of the Chinese (especially those borderline IQ chang huayi SAP Chinese extremists and chauvinists types like that Jah guy and his ilk) and the myth that they are a special breed, extremely intelligent and diligent and can stand on their own two feet and overcome any obstacles in life.

The truth is that the Chinese heads have swelled with excessive pride because they never realise that they were "competing" against us who never desired, in the first place, to be their competitors. Now that they start facing real competition from what they call "shit skins", "Pinoys" etc they start crying for help and start begging for affirmative action.
 

Malays Must Vote PAP!

Alfrescian
Loyal
He is right though, whereas previoulsy the Chinese language and chinese language education was about race, and race identity , the Chinese language and Chinese language education needs currently are driven by commercial gains and benefits. There is a world of difference between the two but as to whether he sees it in his warped mind is a different issue.

Don't be an idiot. Read up on the stated objectives of the Speak Mandarin campaign.

The language of commerce is money. Otherwise you won't have Chinese carrying out business in Africa or the French, English, etc speaking Europeans carrying out business in Latin America or Mandarin speaking China.
 
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Malays Must Vote PAP!

Alfrescian
Loyal
If one examines MVPAPa arguments they reflect to a large extent not so much Tanah Melayu but Malay Supremacy race based nationalism and Islamic revivalism. in all essence a very poor reiteration of the Malay dilemma. His logic of the land of the Malays is impeccable and leads to the argument of Malay rights special status and finally greater affirmative rights because they as a race have been trodden down looked down on and spat on. Him as a child the mad hatter by a Chinese taxi driver, I do wonder though like mad hatter whether his overcompensatory race language and nationalism is in anyways due to his less than PURE Malay blood. Locke

What "affirmative action" rubbish are you talking about? I have made it crystal clear. We are more than happy and willing to share our land with the Chinese even in a multi-racial setting where, if you exercise your simple common sense, will realise that it means that we will effectively lose out in the numbers game.

However, if the Chinese want to exercise their supremacy over our land and treat it as if it is theirs to do as they please to the extent that they think they have the right to tell us how we should dress and practice our faith, than we will reassert our ownership of our land and tell them to pack up and leave.
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Can't understand. Why can't Chinese speak Chinese to Chinese when Malay can speak Malay to Malay? If you advocate a pure English speaking society, I'd be behind you all the way. Just like Chinese and Malays in Thailand, keep your mother tongues at home, in the public it's all Thai. If you want Malay to be the common public language, there's no ground except your adamant but groundless claim of this being Malay land. Land has no languages. People have, and the majority are Chinese now. Pack up and go back to China? Yeah, right. Pay up and buy back your land.
 

Malays Must Vote PAP!

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear King I am afraid that dear old MVPAP is as delusional about economics and geo political realities as it gets. Firstly the race does not want o be as " material grubbing " etc etc as the chinese. etc etc etc. Lets be clear and distinct about the two " Islam" and " Malay". Ever been to Dubai ? Ever seen the attempts of Dubai to turn its oil and gas wealth into something sustainable, the stories of rich Arab Rulers and Oil Sheiks. That moron is in denial, heck nothing wrong with getting rich as the arabs prove aplenty , the difference is in getting rich easy and getting rich the hard way. The arabs and Islam in Arabia have it easy from oil wealth and imported labor but here at least in SEA the Malays in Singapore do not have access to that

Lets look at his abangs up north ? Who are the idiots getting rich ? As PKR and Malysia Today has pointed out in droves, its the politicians and their cronies screaming Malay Nationalism and Malays own the lands and that Malays should own the land and Malay language should be supreme who are getting rich and screwing the land and the peasants on the land.

Muslims united ? Lets talk economics if the Muslims were united Langkawi would be a fucking financial centre but the arabs are smart enough to let the smart people handle their money.

What that idiot is saying is that " he only wants to get rich if its easy money " " oil wealth " " corruption wealth" " freebies " " affirmative action" etc etc .
Locke

Not quite sure what you are ranting about. Care to clarify what your point is without having to resort to silly guesses and dumb speculations about my intent? This is since I have stated them very clearly. Otherwise you come cross as another borderline retard SAP Chinese extremist like that Jah something guy.
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Don't think anyone who disagrees with you is from a SAP school.

Locke can't even string more than ten Chinese characters together.

I doubt even if he remembers how to write his own name in Chinese.
 

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sam as usual, your shit for brains logic is amazing. Yes, there are many cold hard truths about malays, just as there are about chinese. Why dun LKY point out some cold hard truths about chinese too? How about they are greedy, money grubbing and will stab their own relatives in the back for money? How about they are so driven by paper qualifications that they are driving their own children to suicide? Ever heard of a malay kid or indian kid commit suicide due to poor results in school?
U should know the one person's so call hard truths is another person's bullshit. Like that u might as well say that blacks in america are pimps, drug dealers, welfare recipients, whores, drug addicts, lazy, gangsters, etc. That would be LKY's hard truth. But wait, one of them is the president now, another was in charge of the defence forces, etc.
Maybe u never consider the malays are not interested in catching up with the other communities in termsof money success. They are smart enough to see that the pursue of this has a price. maybe u should be smart enough to shut the fuck up.
I recall that MM LKY did talk a hell, of a lot about Chinese,but to me the most impressive that he has given so far about Chinese is

"The Chinese are not suited for democracy,no way you can rule Chinese race in a democratic way."

After Taiwan turned democarcy under his great buddy President Chiang,once MM LKY shifted his ground a little.

He said,"Taiwan went democracy because of threat from China,they had no other choice"

Later when his friends in KMT were defected.MM LKY watched very anxiously the development there,praying that he would not be proven wrong.

Bingo,DPP got a corrupted president,and PAP ,made a huge song & dance about how bad the situation in Taiwan was,and that if Taiwanese did not chose to change their government,GDP growth would be on par with Singapore.

I took a completely different view from him,any transition fr a dictatorial regime to true democracy is very difficult,in fact many of them failed.

Taiwan is blessed with a corrupted president,in the sense that they were given a first hand,real time experience of the RULE BY LAW,and RULE OF LAWS,an eletced president charged with corruption live on TV and sentenced to 25 years in prison.

What democratic lesson can be more important than this one,never before in any Chinese society.

Now that Taiwan has gone thro' another round of smooth regime change,with KMT president Mah managing quite well,even economically.democarcy is set to stay in Taiwan,a typical Chinese society.This MM LKY has been proven completely wrong.
 

Malays Must Vote PAP!

Alfrescian
Loyal
Don't think anyone who disagrees with you is from a SAP school.

Locke can't even string more than ten Chinese characters together.

I doubt even if he remembers how to write his own name in Chinese.

That's indeed shocking. A Chinese who has no pride in his superior Confucian heritage and 5,000 year old glorious ancient civilization.

I hope he has retained his Chinese name at the very least.
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Pay for my land? Please pack your roads, skyscrapers and all your materials things and leave. Take everything with you. It's okay. We don't want them. Leave our land as it was.

The land is part and parcel of all material things built on it, only difference is it's immovable. British bought the land from Malays. Chinese bought the land from British. You want it? Buy it, or try to rob it, like Japanese did.

That's indeed shocking. A Chinese who has no pride in his superior Confucian heritage and 5,000 year old glorious ancient civilization.

I hope he has retained his Chinese name at the very least.

Yes of course. Family name is family name regardless of how anglophile he is. What I'm trying to point out is, most Singaporean Chinese are English speaking in this generation, with or without whatever campaign. There's no cause for worry for minorities, indigenous or not. You want him or others like him to speak Malay? Go petition the PAP that you want to vote for. There's no possibility of a 15%-minority language becoming a lingua franca except by legislation and enforced education in that language.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
My stand is that LKY's SAP, SMC..are all part of playing the race card. you seem to think that he was some benevolent old man doing somehting noble and helping the Chinese to become better integrated with China in order to facilitate business comm, or talking to yr butcher neighbour's wife.

Those are collaterals.



How do your points 1 and 2 factor into the discussion?



Since you have never lifted yr blinkers, how can you ever credit yrsefl with such a thought?

Firstly i want to ask you what's your stand on the issue then? You're against chinese sap schools and chinese unity isn't that your stand? Yet in the 2nd part of your post you wrote that the old man created these sap schools and mandarin for the chinese to unite to counter against malay chauvinism. Thus you're actually going over to my side.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
My stand is that LKY's SAP, SMC..are all part of playing the race card. you seem to think that he was some benevolent old man doing somehting noble and helping the Chinese to become better integrated with China in order to facilitate business comm, or talking to yr butcher neighbour's wife.

Those are collaterals.







Since you have never lifted yr blinkers, how can you ever credit yrsefl with such a thought?



Oh please elaborate on the race card pls. :rolleyes: I see get all the chinese to learn mandarin yeah and they'll all become racist to the non chinese! Brilliant. Seriously elaborate and explain it yourself. When i see your posts i cringe. Lots of name calling and self proclaimed boasting that you're the "enlightened" one. Yet there's no explaination on your part. Sure LKY isn't benevolent. He's not a saint. Who in the blue hell thinks he's benevolent? Stop imposing your assumptions unto others.

Oh sure yes he didn't get the chinese to speak mandarin to understand the china chinese better okay i'll give you that you can read his mind and intentions better than naysayers okay. I'll help you feel proud of yourself :rolleyes: BUT even if LKY just wanted to play the race card without any other intention by getting the chinese to learn mandarin he has indirectly aided them. Now the chinese just need to speak 1 language and not a mish mash of dialects to understand one another. Guess what they too are able to understand and do business with the greater number of chinese found overseas and especially from taiwan and china.

I didn't lift my blinkers? :rolleyes:
Look you wrote yourself that he created these SAP schools to counter the UMNO ppl correct? Didn't you write that yourself? What's the problem now?


You merely replied to 1 one of points in the last post i would assume you agree with me on the rest but don't have courage to admit you're wrong correct?


Actually what's your stand? You're not very clear as to what your opinion is.

I guess in essence what you mean is somehow it's not good for the other races if all chinese learn mandarin and converse in mandarin among themselves but it's okay for other races to converse in their own language.
 
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