• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

2nd Reply/Response from Tan Kin Lian

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
you must understand his good friend GMS is helping him to run the campaign:wink::biggrin:

Best he quit now instead of losing deposit. Surely he could have headhunted another strategist. Or, maybe no one wants to be closely associated with him other than our good bro Capt GMS.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
The latest news is that TKL may be backing out to save his face. To give the other non-PAP endorsed candidate better chances woh...
 

RonRon

Alfrescian
Loyal
Best he quit now instead of losing deposit. Surely he could have headhunted another strategist. Or, maybe no one wants to be closely associated with him other than our good bro Capt GMS.

Actually I like to see him run and lose the deposit, and who knows we will get more inside stories of this tyrannic boss from his ex employee:biggrin:
 

RonRon

Alfrescian
Loyal
The latest news is that TKL may be backing out to save his face. To give the other non-PAP endorsed candidate better chances woh...

where you get the news from? from his FB he is still happily asking for funding few hrs ago.
 

wikiphile

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Best he quit now instead of losing deposit. Surely he could have headhunted another strategist. Or, maybe no one wants to be closely associated with him other than our good bro Capt GMS.

bo bian, this one not around so he had to settle for GMS

Zhuge_Liang_by_Ahyicodae.jpg
 

MightyMouse

Alfrescian
Loyal
Actually I like to see him run and lose the deposit, and who knows we will get more inside stories of this tyrannic boss from his ex employee:biggrin:

As much as it is fun to see him run, his support base is likely to be significantly bigger than Desmond Lim. Therefore, it is likely that he will win more than 10% or even higher of the popular vote. In such a situation, the 10% or more votes polled by him would in all likelihood be enough to enable TT to win. That to me is a disaster scenario.

Better that we encourage him to withdraw his candidate whilst maintaining his dignity. It would be sad that he chose to remain in the election just for the sake of preserving his face based on his previous pre-election posturing. I believe that he has already contributed to the excitement levels in this election by offering to stand as a candidate. Being a potential candidate has also allowed him to raise those questions that are close to his heart. I don't think there is further value for taking the last step in actually competing in the elections. By doing that, it is likely that he will directly responsible for TT getting into Istana, and it be business as usual, as per the last 12 years.
 

sense

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am still disturbed by the fact that he does know what smear means. Even GMS seems not to know. If my identity is known, he can't sue me because what I wrote are facts and the rest are fair comments based on these facts.

Other than having GMS as a friend, would do TKL good to have a legal friend to teach him the boundary of what is considered defamatory.

From Harbans Singh Sidhu v Public Prosecutor [1972-1974] SLR 413; [1973] SGHC 1:

"There can be no doubt at all and indeed it is not in dispute that the impugned words spoken by the appellant are per se defamatory and would harm the reputation of the Prime Minister. At the trial the appellant relied on the first, second, third, ninth and tenth Exceptions to s 499 of the Penal Code. It is therefore necessary to set out these Exceptions and they are in the following terms:

First Exception — It is not defamation to impute anything which is true concerning any person, if it is for the public good that the imputation should be made or published. Whether or not it is for the public good is a question of fact.


Second Exception — It is not defamation to express in good faith any opinion whatever respecting the conduct of any person touching any discharge of his public functions, or respecting his character, so far as his character appears in that conduct, and no further.


Third Exception — It is not defamation to express in good faith any opinion whatever respecting the conduct of any person touching any public question, and respecting his character, so far as his character appears in that conduct, and no further.


Ninth Exception — It is not defamation to make an imputation on the character of another, provided that the imputation is made in good faith for the protection of the interests of the person making it, or of any other person, or for the public good.


Tenth Exception — It is not defamation to convey a caution, in good faith, to one person against another, provided that the caution is intended for the good of the person to whom it is conveyed, or of some person in whom that person is interested, or for the public good."


Justice.png

 

victoros

Alfrescian
Loyal
Scroobal. You are challenging Tan Kin Lian to debate you in public but you are hiding behind in anonymity instead. Do you mind to disclose yourself and let other netizens to judge your character first before engaging with Tan Kin Lian ? You will only earn our respect this way, no less.

He is running for public. I am not marrying his daughter or placing an investment with him. We Singaporeans should learn to debate in public. The Straits Times practices censorship in favour of the ruling party. Hardware zone is owned by SPH. Blogs owners control comments. There is only one forum that I know is pretty much free when it comes to Singapore Political discourse.

If he finds that anything that I said is false, he can always rebut it for everyone to see. Singaporeans who care enough have to ask themselves if all these makes sense. Do you use money from a workers cooperative to build a swimming pool. Do you use a workers cooperative funds and give away thousands of dollars to pay for RC noticeboards. I am sure you know RCs do when MPs come. The same RC and all grassroot organisation do not work with opposition MPs since JBJ broke PAP monopoly.

I have used the term "less capable" in a nice way to describe a range of Singaporeans some of who are naive, some are desperate because they feel short changed, and others just have no idea what happened in the past.

If someone uses workers" cooperative funds to build swimming pool or fund political activities in the west, they will be lynched. Only in Singapore, it is called jumping to conclusion. What do you think he is going to tell me in private? That he was actually working undercover for Worker Party and infiltrated the PAP to help the common man. If he refutes all this, then you can draw your conclusion. For all you know that he might come up with an explanation that the swimming pool contractor had lost a contract to a foreign talent and to save his kids and give them a good education, I ask him to build a pool.

Look who are the people who he is working with for EP. Anyone that you think is considered respectable or influential? He is well known in Singapore and he has never changed. Note where Sylvia, LTK, Chiam stand when it comes to him.
 

ScarFace

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sounds fair.

Scroobal. You are challenging Tan Kin Lian to debate you in public but you are hiding behind in anonymity instead. Do you mind to disclose yourself and let other netizens to judge your character first before engaging with Tan Kin Lian ? You will only earn our respect this way, no less.
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
in case you didn't get it, I was just parroting TKL's line lah. His has been giving out his gmail address in all his replies.

He got it lah bro, note the big grin. :biggrin:

He won't be back here, so if we really want to contact him, it would have to be via e-mail. :o

If he comes back and "interacts" with us, would like to tell him 2 things:
1. Something is a "smear" only if it is proven to be untrue. It's not a smear if he doesn't agree with it, or just because he doesn't like it or if it doesn't make him look good.
2. Maybe it should be legislated that we should all leave our email addresses beside the cross we mark at the polling booth. I'm asking my MP this at the next MPS. :rolleyes: :biggrin:
 

sense

Alfrescian
Loyal
Scroobal. You are challenging Tan Kin Lian to debate you in public but you are hiding behind in anonymity instead. Do you mind to disclose yourself and let other netizens to judge your character first before engaging with Tan Kin Lian ? You will only earn our respect this way, no less.

It's interesting that you are still taunting scroobal to reveal his actual identity. It is as good as asking Sam to reveal his identity.

In this particular case, it is unnecessary for scroobal to reveal his identity. Status quo would be more beneficial for him and for the community.

Since scroobal is not running for a public office, it would do you good as TKL unconditional supporter to focus on facts (historical and present) and possibly lend your support for TCB as suggested by TKL himself.

Judgement of one's character for public and private (anonymous) individuals has it's own unique ways and looks like you are as new to new media as TKL. Well, you/TKL will learn... eventually.

Sometimes, the truth hurts. Take it easy.

new-media.gif
 
Last edited:

karmabear

Alfrescian
Loyal
Since scroobal is not running for a public office, it would do you good as TKL unconditional supporter to focus on facts (historical and present) and possibly lend your support for TCB as suggested by TKL himself.

Here is a tip for the casinos, sure win one. You need to find the suay lang (unlucky guy). Usually will be face red, sweaty, look stressed, keep losing and losing... Just bet opposite to what they do... If they are banker, you bet player and vice versa... if they bet black, you bet red, if they bet big, you bet small. Sure win one....

Victoros and GMS is the suay lang in this election, whoever they declare support, sure suay one. Please continue to support TKL, thank you very much.
 

Zenra2OO3

Alfrescian
Loyal
In my very first comment I revealed a series of facts which have never been refuted and also accompanied that we comments based on these facts. To his claims of "smears " I penned this;

Couple of observations in regard to his response to allegations of smear.

1) He needs to understand that there is distinct difference between smear and adverse comments or comments that are not flattering.

2) The following are facts;
- he was a branch secretary of Marine Parade which is the highest ranking party post after the MP in a constituency
- He was chairman of Marine CCC which is a political appointment and the most important committee in a constituency
- He was also the chairman of the Marine Parade Community Centre Management committee
- He was a cadre member of the PAP for 30 years
- He headed NTUC Income for 30 years
- NTUC is a political body and a sister organisation of PAP
- NTUC Income has a captive market share courtesy of the PAP and the Govt

The PAP does not give such posts to any Tom, Dick and Harry. While he was holding these posts, Chia Thye Poh was still a guest of the PAP.

3) Many people including PAP MPs have made comments that went against the Govt and PAP. They include Tan Cheng Bock, Wan Soon Bee , Tan Soo Khoon, Lily Kong etc. I can't recall Tan Kin Lian ever making an adverse comment that had similar impact or came close to that. Can anyone recall he ever doing prior to his retirement? All we can recall is that having enjoyed the fruits of PAP for over 30 years and after retirement, he is now claiming to be a freedom fighter. That's like asking a convicted pedophile who has reformed to run a kindergarten.

4) Thousands of people have written to the Press on many things and the majority are adverse comments. I can't recall a single letter of his and probably it was not earth shattering. By the way writing letters to the press does not earn anyone any credit or certainly the office of President. There has to be a clear pattern of thought and opinion and a distinct reputation is earned.

5) No one has accused him of not serving NTUC income policy holders. I am beginning to worry about his poor comprehension of English which is crucial if he is going to give assent to bills that will eventually become law. The claims are that NTUC Income has a captive market and he enjoyed the benefits of being a PAP member.

6) His claim that he was invited to be an MP twice but was declined can best be addressed by naming those who requested him to do so. It similar to me making the false claim that 2 cabinet ministers asking me to be MP. It is a hollow claim and notice how easily one can make the claim. Its common knowledge that Tan Kin Lian was asked to move on. I am sure if he was well regarded he will have no qualms naming the person or persons who asked him to be an MP. After all he is running for the highest public office and Singaporeans are keen to make an informed judgment. Those who approached him if they really value him would have no problem acting as referees.

7) The claim that he did not take up the offer of MP is that he was occupied by work. Tan Cheng Bock was running a medical practice. Davinder Singh, MD of Drew and Napier, all the cabinet ministers are not full time MP. What about Chiam, LTK and MAO. 99% of parlimentarians around the world have a day job. By the way NTUC Income is serving a captive market and it does not operate outside Singapore. Even at the time, there was no town councils to occupy the MP.

8) He was asked for his past history of being associated with social work and or charities. All he could claim was mini-bond. Quite a worry for someone who claims that he wants to help Singapore. People who bought mini-bonds are actually those who have savings and those who had surplus income. Not exactly a charitable act in my opinion.

As far as I can tell this guy has been moving around opposition parties and exploiting the gullibles ones for air time and exposure. Just go to Youtube and watch his rally speeches. No substance but general motherhood statements about fairness, Justice, equality etc. You be the judge.

Most importantly from his reply you can see that he likes obfuscating to make claims that he was unfairly smeared.

- Nobody ever claimed that he was branch secretary for 30 years. The claim was that he was enjoying the benefits of running NTUC Income for 30 years. He was also a PAP cadre member for 30 years.
- Nobody ever claimed that he was silent of issues. The claim was while enjoying the fruits of his time with PAP/NTUC for over 30 years he kept silent.
- Nobody ever claimed that he was ripping his policyholders. The claim was that he was given a captive market and enjoying it


Either he has poor comprehension of English or he is developing the art of obfuscation but quite poor it.

As a matter of curiosity, why are you expending so much energy on TKL? If you think chap is not worth it, then just say once and for all lar. We get your point. No need to act like "zi za por" over it. We are all grown ups :smile:

Noticed you set up a number of threads dedicated to TKL. Did u have any bad experience with that chap?

I don't know about the presidential race, but if by some freak mishap, TCB is not in the running, and you get TKL versus TT, then who will you root for?
 

streetsmart73

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
I will not go into things that others have raised such as his ego which I think is pretty obvious but things that require some level of analysis;

1) Downplaying the role of his PAP past:
You can't hold the position of cadre, branch secretary, and CCC chairman in the 1980s unless you are a committed and dyed in the wool follower. These are no ordinary posts. When he was cadres, the number of cadres were few hundred. This was the inner circle of the PAP albeit not the all power CEC. This was the period when PAP hold on the country was its peak before Anson By Election disaster. It was also a period that number of people were under detention, there was no feedback unit and it was the PAP way or the highway.

2) 30 years in NTUC Income:
It obvious that most are not aware or forgot that NTUC Income began as a worker's cooperative. It was protected by the Govt and has had a natural captive market. In simple terms, it did not have to compete in the open market. Tan Kin Lian earned his wealth on the backs of ordinary workers and that includes taxi drivers. Unlike other candidates who had their own income and worked in the market place like 97% of Singaporeans, this man until his retirement enjoyed the benefits of a PAP protected company. It is common knowledge that many people find it revolting working for the PAP or its creation the NTUC. It is also common knowledge that potential PAP MPs are given jobs in NTUC when they are basically not marketable. Look at the type of MPs who are working in PAP. Irene Ho, Yeo Guat Kwang, Ong Ah Heng, and now including rejected candidates from Aljunied. Imagine during his tenure he managed to build a swimming pool in his office building while leading a workers cooperative.

3) Patronising the less able:
a) The office of EP is sterile and has little impact on the Govt of the day. The moment that he said that he will influence the investment decisions of the Govt, I knew we were dealing with a dishonest individual. The president has not powers, no means and no avenue on the investment decision of the Govt. The Chief Justice despite his role cannot influence the decision of the investing arm of the state. The President is also in the same. Why did Tan Kin Lian make this claim. It is playing to the gallery of the less able.

b) The office of EP is essentially a conventional ceremonial state with the added powers of holding the 2nd key. The moment he holds assent to a bill, attempts to go against the clemency advice of AG and the cabinet, we are going straight into a constitutional crisis. Is he capable of it. Yes but I suspect that it will be in his 5th year and one year before the expiry of term.

c) Giving up much of the salary of the President. This is another cheap and populist move, knowing full well the high salary is a major political timebomb for the PAP. What many are not aware is that the President's Purse is such that all his and that of his family needs are met from accommodation, food, clothing(yes clothings as well, suits, dressed), Golf are all taken care of. No money is needed. There is also an expense account for entertainment. He can invite and treat all his friends at the Istana on State expenses.

d) Intentionally confusing the role of an MP that represents his constituents and protect their needs to that of a President who is supposed to be a role model, a guardian of state assets and emblem of state institutions. The EP role does not sync with all his claim. His rhetoric suggest that the role he should have gone is that of an MP.

4) Target audience: So who are the less able that he has been misleading.They are not politically well versed, driven to desperation because this govt has failed them on issues of housing, CPF minimum sum etc and who are clutching as straws for relief. Tan Kin Lian knows full well that all these cannot be addressed. The Office of President does not allow the President to influence policies and the executive function of the state. If Tan Kin Lian honestly believes that he can act for the people in these areas, he should categorically state what he wants to do and how he is going to circumvent the limited role of the President to achieve these things.

5) His Conduct: Until his retirement, he enjoyed the benefits of a PAP member. He did not whisper an iota of discontent to anyone about this govt. When he retired in 2007, suddenly he painted himself as a dissident and expressed the desire to contest the Presidency in 2008. The climate began to turn against the PAP quite considerably since late 1990s. In 2006, the youth selected to have a dialogue with the old man, gave the despot a black eye on national TV and actually asked to step down from cabinet. Seems to me that having milked the PAP, he now in on a different bandwagon and blowing with the wind.

6) His contribution to society: I have asked this repeatedly and except for the mini-bonds which he does credit for, this guy has never done anything in the social or charity space. He actually donated money from the workers cooperative to put up RC notice boards for the benefit of the PAP.



hi there


1. bro, i appreciate your analysis and comments.
2. btw, what are your views on dr tan cb and the white-hair?
3. care to share too!
 

sense

Alfrescian
Loyal
...I don't know about the presidential race, but if by some freak mishap, TCB is not in the running, and you get TKL versus TT, then who will you root for?

Scroobal is probably worried that by freak mishap, TKL becomes the EP - that would be a disaster for SG.
 

Windsor

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It's interesting that you are still taunting scroobal to reveal his actual identity. It is as good as asking Sam to reveal his identity.

In this particular case, it is unnecessary for scroobal to reveal his identity. Status quo would be more beneficial for him and for the community.

Since scroobal is not running for a public office, it would do you good as TKL unconditional supporter to focus on facts (historical and present) and possibly lend your support for TCB as suggested by TKL himself.

Judgement of one's character for public and private (anonymous) individuals has it's own unique ways and looks like you are as new to new media as TKL. Well, you/TKL will learn... eventually.

Sometimes, the truth hurts. Take it easy.

You are being very kind to him. Any matured fool should be able to understand the difference. Isn't it pretty obvious that TKL is being hampered not only by his poor grasp of the ways to interact with the new media, but also with the people whom he relies on to promote his public image?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's pointless having a private email exchange when people are keen to assess him as he wants to be the President. Assessing me is pointless. I am not standing for the office of President.

I did not write to him and have never responded to him directly. I made a series of factual statements after checking my facts carefully. I also made comments and gave my observations based on these facts. Not a single fact can be disputed or shown to be untrue.

I also suspect that he does not know the meaning of "smear" which complicates matters. Sure they are negative, demeaning and disparaging but I chose never work for, work with and be associated with the PAP or the NTUC. Many Singaporeans have made the choice consciously.

I am sure many people are equally disgusted that a man who lived on the backs ordinary workers sold his soul to the PAP and NTUC for 30 years upon within months of retiring from these organisation now claims that he does not share it's value. What was he thinking for 30 over years?

Mind you, he was no ordinary PAP or NTUC member.

[/B]
Scroobal. You are challenging Tan Kin Lian to debate you in public but you are hiding behind in anonymity instead. Do you mind to disclose yourself and let other netizens to judge your character first before engaging with Tan Kin Lian ? You will only earn our respect this way, no less.
 
Last edited:

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Don't worry bro, this will last for couple of weeks and we will be be fallow for 5 years. Between TKL and TT, I will certainly vote for TKL. It will make a fool of the old man and the PAP. Anyway it's sterile office. You must have missed my 2 threads on TT. The fact that he was until the collection of forms was with GIC is clear conflict of interest. He also damaged the education system for 18 years. The damage he did far outweighs what TKL ever did.

What many people are not aware of is that while he was CEO of OCBC, DBS, OUB and UOB outperformed him and after 3 years it became increasingly embarrassing. Peter Seah of OUB outstripped him every year.




As a matter of curiosity, why are you expending so much energy on TKL? If you think chap is not worth it, then just say once and for all lar. We get your point. No need to act like "zi za por" over it. We are all grown ups :smile:

Noticed you set up a number of threads dedicated to TKL. Did u have any bad experience with that chap?

I don't know about the presidential race, but if by some freak mishap, TCB is not in the running, and you get TKL versus TT, then who will you root for?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks bro, very well said.
It's interesting that you are still taunting scroobal to reveal his actual identity. It is as good as asking Sam to reveal his identity.

In this particular case, it is unnecessary for scroobal to reveal his identity. Status quo would be more beneficial for him and for the community


Sometimes, the truth hurts. Take it easy.

new-media.gif
 

SalahParking

Alfrescian
Loyal
What many people are not aware of is that while he was CEO of OCBC, DBS, OUB and UOB outperformed him and after 3 years it became increasingly embarrassing. Peter Seah of OUB outstripped him every year.

That is a very sharp observation. UOB was named most profitable bank in those years and had nice new office towers, OUB was most improved and nimble and dynamic with peter seah, but OCBC was slow, conservative, nobody wanted to work at OCBC then....even POSB had a better image as the people's bank.
 
Top