2nd Reply/Response from Tan Kin Lian

[scroobal]

This is Tan Kin Lian 2nd reply to comments made in this forum on the Robin Hood thread. On this occasion he replied directly instead of thru GMS. Again he has classified it as smear. I will pen my comments to this in subsequent posts

This is my reply to the author, scroobal.

Several people have asked the question why I decided to contest the Presidential Election and not the General Election, and I have given an honest answer. As you have observed (and so have many other people), I have done so reluctantly, but for the reason that I have stated - to give the voters a wider choice. I assure you that the journey has been very difficult for me personally.

It is all right if you prefer another candidate, but there is no need for you to give a negative interpretation to my statements and engage in a smear on my character. I suggest that you contact me at [email protected] and get the facts or my perspective, before you jump to your conclusions and make your judgement. In any case, if you do have to make a judgement on other people, you should exercise fairness and impartiality.

I also ask you to check with people you know, who may be PAP cadres - but not MPs. They will tell you how much real influence they have in the policy making of the party. In my case, my influence is close to none, in spite of being a cadre for almost 30 years.

 

[scroobal]

In my very first comment I revealed a series of facts which have never been refuted and also accompanied that we comments based on these facts. To his claims of "smears " I penned this;

Couple of observations in regard to his response to allegations of smear.

1) He needs to understand that there is distinct difference between smear and adverse comments or comments that are not flattering.

2) The following are facts;
- he was a branch secretary of Marine Parade which is the highest ranking party post after the MP in a constituency
- He was chairman of Marine CCC which is a political appointment and the most important committee in a constituency
- He was also the chairman of the Marine Parade Community Centre Management committee
- He was a cadre member of the PAP for 30 years
- He headed NTUC Income for 30 years
- NTUC is a political body and a sister organisation of PAP
- NTUC Income has a captive market share courtesy of the PAP and the Govt

The PAP does not give such posts to any Tom, Dick and Harry. While he was holding these posts, Chia Thye Poh was still a guest of the PAP.

3) Many people including PAP MPs have made comments that went against the Govt and PAP. They include Tan Cheng Bock, Wan Soon Bee , Tan Soo Khoon, Lily Kong etc. I can't recall Tan Kin Lian ever making an adverse comment that had similar impact or came close to that. Can anyone recall he ever doing prior to his retirement? All we can recall is that having enjoyed the fruits of PAP for over 30 years and after retirement, he is now claiming to be a freedom fighter. That's like asking a convicted pedophile who has reformed to run a kindergarten.

4) Thousands of people have written to the Press on many things and the majority are adverse comments. I can't recall a single letter of his and probably it was not earth shattering. By the way writing letters to the press does not earn anyone any credit or certainly the office of President. There has to be a clear pattern of thought and opinion and a distinct reputation is earned.

5) No one has accused him of not serving NTUC income policy holders. I am beginning to worry about his poor comprehension of English which is crucial if he is going to give assent to bills that will eventually become law. The claims are that NTUC Income has a captive market and he enjoyed the benefits of being a PAP member.

6) His claim that he was invited to be an MP twice but was declined can best be addressed by naming those who requested him to do so. It similar to me making the false claim that 2 cabinet ministers asking me to be MP. It is a hollow claim and notice how easily one can make the claim. Its common knowledge that Tan Kin Lian was asked to move on. I am sure if he was well regarded he will have no qualms naming the person or persons who asked him to be an MP. After all he is running for the highest public office and Singaporeans are keen to make an informed judgment. Those who approached him if they really value him would have no problem acting as referees.

7) The claim that he did not take up the offer of MP is that he was occupied by work. Tan Cheng Bock was running a medical practice. Davinder Singh, MD of Drew and Napier, all the cabinet ministers are not full time MP. What about Chiam, LTK and MAO. 99% of parlimentarians around the world have a day job. By the way NTUC Income is serving a captive market and it does not operate outside Singapore. Even at the time, there was no town councils to occupy the MP.

8) He was asked for his past history of being associated with social work and or charities. All he could claim was mini-bond. Quite a worry for someone who claims that he wants to help Singapore. People who bought mini-bonds are actually those who have savings and those who had surplus income. Not exactly a charitable act in my opinion.

As far as I can tell this guy has been moving around opposition parties and exploiting the gullibles ones for air time and exposure. Just go to Youtube and watch his rally speeches. No substance but general motherhood statements about fairness, Justice, equality etc. You be the judge.

Most importantly from his reply you can see that he likes obfuscating to make claims that he was unfairly smeared.

- Nobody ever claimed that he was branch secretary for 30 years. The claim was that he was enjoying the benefits of running NTUC Income for 30 years. He was also a PAP cadre member for 30 years.
- Nobody ever claimed that he was silent of issues. The claim was while enjoying the fruits of his time with PAP/NTUC for over 30 years he kept silent.
- Nobody ever claimed that he was ripping his policyholders. The claim was that he was given a captive market and enjoying it


Either he has poor comprehension of English or he is developing the art of obfuscation but quite poor it.

 

[cleareyes]

The nicl "scroobal" is but someone of whom no one would dare say who the person is.

Unless TKL know who scroobal is, i find it odd why TKl would bother to reply on someone of whom has no bearing in the real political practise.

Unless.......what scroobal had put up is of actual facts.

 

[Bigfuck]

The nicl "scroobal" is but someone of whom no one would dare say who the person is.

Unless TKL know who scroobal is, i find it odd why TKl would bother to reply on someone of whom has no bearing in the real political practise.

Unless.......what scroobal had put up is of actual facts.

Scroobal is a person if revealed will send chills down PAP.

 

[scroobal]

I will not go into things that others have raised such as his ego which I think is pretty obvious but things that require some level of analysis;

1) Downplaying the role of his PAP past:
You can't hold the position of cadre, branch secretary, and CCC chairman in the 1980s unless you are a committed and dyed in the wool follower. These are no ordinary posts. When he was cadres, the number of cadres were few hundred. This was the inner circle of the PAP albeit not the all power CEC. This was the period when PAP hold on the country was its peak before Anson By Election disaster. It was also a period that number of people were under detention, there was no feedback unit and it was the PAP way or the highway.

2) 30 years in NTUC Income:
It obvious that most are not aware or forgot that NTUC Income began as a worker's cooperative. It was protected by the Govt and has had a natural captive market. In simple terms, it did not have to compete in the open market. Tan Kin Lian earned his wealth on the backs of ordinary workers and that includes taxi drivers. Unlike other candidates who had their own income and worked in the market place like 97% of Singaporeans, this man until his retirement enjoyed the benefits of a PAP protected company. It is common knowledge that many people find it revolting working for the PAP or its creation the NTUC. It is also common knowledge that potential PAP MPs are given jobs in NTUC when they are basically not marketable. Look at the type of MPs who are working in PAP. Irene Ho, Yeo Guat Kwang, Ong Ah Heng, and now including rejected candidates from Aljunied. Imagine during his tenure he managed to build a swimming pool in his office building while leading a workers cooperative.

3) Patronising the less able:
a) The office of EP is sterile and has little impact on the Govt of the day. The moment that he said that he will influence the investment decisions of the Govt, I knew we were dealing with a dishonest individual. The president has not powers, no means and no avenue on the investment decision of the Govt. The Chief Justice despite his role cannot influence the decision of the investing arm of the state. The President is also in the same. Why did Tan Kin Lian make this claim. It is playing to the gallery of the less able.

b) The office of EP is essentially a conventional ceremonial state with the added powers of holding the 2nd key. The moment he holds assent to a bill, attempts to go against the clemency advice of AG and the cabinet, we are going straight into a constitutional crisis. Is he capable of it. Yes but I suspect that it will be in his 5th year and one year before the expiry of term.

c) Giving up much of the salary of the President. This is another cheap and populist move, knowing full well the high salary is a major political timebomb for the PAP. What many are not aware is that the President's Purse is such that all his and that of his family needs are met from accommodation, food, clothing(yes clothings as well, suits, dressed), Golf are all taken care of. No money is needed. There is also an expense account for entertainment. He can invite and treat all his friends at the Istana on State expenses.

d) Intentionally confusing the role of an MP that represents his constituents and protect their needs to that of a President who is supposed to be a role model, a guardian of state assets and emblem of state institutions. The EP role does not sync with all his claim. His rhetoric suggest that the role he should have gone is that of an MP.

4) Target audience: So who are the less able that he has been misleading.They are not politically well versed, driven to desperation because this govt has failed them on issues of housing, CPF minimum sum etc and who are clutching as straws for relief. Tan Kin Lian knows full well that all these cannot be addressed. The Office of President does not allow the President to influence policies and the executive function of the state. If Tan Kin Lian honestly believes that he can act for the people in these areas, he should categorically state what he wants to do and how he is going to circumvent the limited role of the President to achieve these things.

5) His Conduct: Until his retirement, he enjoyed the benefits of a PAP member. He did not whisper an iota of discontent to anyone about this govt. When he retired in 2007, suddenly he painted himself as a dissident and expressed the desire to contest the Presidency in 2008. The climate began to turn against the PAP quite considerably since late 1990s. In 2006, the youth selected to have a dialogue with the old man, gave the despot a black eye on national TV and actually asked to step down from cabinet. Seems to me that having milked the PAP, he now in on a different bandwagon and blowing with the wind.

6) His contribution to society: I have asked this repeatedly and except for the mini-bonds which he does credit for, this guy has never done anything in the social or charity space. He actually donated money from the workers cooperative to put up RC notice boards for the benefit of the PAP.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Scroobal, maybe you should contact him at [email protected] and get the facts or his perspective, before jumping to your conclusions and make your judgement.

hahahaha

 

[Varuna]

Scroobal, maybe you should contact him at [email protected] and get the facts or his perspective, before jumping to your conclusions and make your judgement.

hahahaha

This is an open forum where comments, replies and justifications are laid out for all to read and judge. If TKL thinks his character has been assasinated, he can write all out his defense arguments, facts and perspectives in pages here. Whether scroobal's statement is fair or unfair depends on how well TKL can convince readers with his rebuttals. I think there is no necessity to go private into emails unless there is something that cannot be disclosed to public.

 

[Rogue Trader]

in case you didn't get it, I was just parroting TKL's line lah. His has been giving out his gmail address in all his replies.

 

[Varuna]

in case you didn't get it, I was just parroting TKL's line lah. His has been giving out his gmail address in all his replies.

Yes brudder No offence..... I must confess I was making use of yr comment to re-stress again for TKL to see in case he ever comes in to follow scroobal's reply again.

 

[scroobal]

He is running for public. I am not marrying his daughter or placing an investment with him. We Singaporeans should learn to debate in public. The Straits Times practices censorship in favour of the ruling party. Hardware zone is owned by SPH. Blogs owners control comments. There is only one forum that I know is pretty much free when it comes to Singapore Political discourse.

If he finds that anything that I said is false, he can always rebut it for everyone to see. Singaporeans who care enough have to ask themselves if all these makes sense. Do you use money from a workers cooperative to build a swimming pool. Do you use a workers cooperative funds and give away thousands of dollars to pay for RC noticeboards. I am sure you know RCs do when MPs come. The same RC and all grassroot organisation do not work with opposition MPs since JBJ broke PAP monopoly.

I have used the term "less capable" in a nice way to describe a range of Singaporeans some of who are naive, some are desperate because they feel short changed, and others just have no idea what happened in the past.

If someone uses workers" cooperative funds to build swimming pool or fund political activities in the west, they will be lynched. Only in Singapore, it is called jumping to conclusion. What do you think he is going to tell me in private? That he was actually working undercover for Worker Party and infiltrated the PAP to help the common man. If he refutes all this, then you can draw your conclusion. For all you know that he might come up with an explanation that the swimming pool contractor had lost a contract to a foreign talent and to save his kids and give them a good education, I ask him to build a pool.

Look who are the people who he is working with for EP. Anyone that you think is considered respectable or influential? He is well known in Singapore and he has never changed. Note where Sylvia, LTK, Chiam stand when it comes to him.

Scroobal, maybe you should contact him at [email protected] and get the facts or his perspective, before jumping to your conclusions and make your judgement.

hahahaha

 

[Rogue Trader]

This is an open forum where comments, replies and justifications are laid out for all to read and judge. If TKL thinks his character has been assasinated, he can write all out his defense arguments, facts and perspectives in pages here. Whether scroobal's statement is fair or unfair depends on how well TKL can convince readers with his rebuttals. I think there is no necessity to go private into emails unless there is something that cannot be disclosed to public.

Mr Tan seems very hot and bothered about scroobal's impression of him. I can only deduce the fact that Mr Tan is a regular visitor at this forum for a long time.

Or he has picked up some bad habits from Goh meng seng.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Or he has picked up some bad habits from Goh meng seng.

They both can go chiong in Macau after tasting defeat. Tasting of abalone in Macau is more pleasurable.

 

[karmabear]

For all you know, he might be a lao jiao at the other forum, lots of contacts and FR!!!

 

[Debonerman]

Mr Tan seems very hot and bothered about scroobal's impression of him. I can only deduce the fact that Mr Tan is a regular visitor at this forum for a long time.

Or he has picked up some bad habits from Goh meng seng.

I believe he uses a nick that in Cantonese means Ah Cheebye.

 

[sense]

He is running for public. I am not marrying his daughter or placing an investment with him. We Singaporeans should learn to debate in public. The Straits Times practices censorship in favour of the ruling party. Hardware zone is owned by SPH. Blogs owners control comments. There is only one forum that I know is pretty much free when it comes to Singapore Political discourse.

If he finds that anything that I said is false, he can always rebut it for everyone to see. Singaporeans who care enough have to ask themselves if all these makes sense...

Keep up the great expose, as always. The path to pte email a lousy idea as you have replied.

While TKL is already responding to scroobal, it is more of a street fight style which will not go down well for many.

TKL shld really pick up the dictionary to understand what is the meaning of smear vs due diligence vs fact finding.

While TCB has exhibited confidence and will to be the EP, I found TCB lack of confidence to be disturbing. Looks like TCB could be another OTC for Singapore, which is why PAP sprinkled bits of nervousness weeks ago, until their PR calmed them down.

I found it rather interesting that TKL originally stated that he hesitated in the race for EP because he worried that there will be smears from the PAP. Like many political candidates, he has underestimated the power of new media. Seems to date that the PAP cannot be bothered or have underwritten him?

He and his team can then start a "TKL EP candidate Frequently Asked Questions" and categorically respond to most of the due diligence that was gathered on him, rather than selectively choose the easy ones or worse divert attention by crying wolf.

Scroobal, do you have a due diligence thread on TCB? Too much noise in this forum, as always.

 

[wikiphile]

Scroobal, do you have a due diligence thread on TCB? Too much noise in this forum, as always.

I agree, it is only fair. TCB is no angel since he is ex PAP after all, i am still willing to vote for the least of the three evils though

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

i cant believe this piece of shit tkl...instead of digging larger graves for himself in cyberspace...u wld hv to he sld be expending his time n energy on raising funds instead since v few want to fund his campaign at the mo...

 

[MightyMouse]

I found it rather interesting that TKL originally stated that he hesitated in the race for EP because he worried that there will be smears from the PAP. Like many political candidates, he has underestimated the power of new media. Seems to date that the PAP cannot be bothered or have underwritten him?

It is to the interest of TT's campaign that there is a 3-corner fight. As such, it would make no sense for them to smear TKL given that TKL is standing clearly in the opposition camp. An effective smear campaign that turns off potential TKL voters will only result in either the votes going void or to Dr Tan Cheng Bock. There is no way that these votes will be captured by TT. That being the case, it would be better off that the 2 other candidates remain in the election and splitting the anti-establishment votes.

 

[RonRon]

i cant believe this piece of shit tkl...instead of digging larger graves for himself in cyberspace...u wld hv to he sld be expending his time n energy on raising funds instead since v few want to fund his campaign at the mo...

you must understand his good friend GMS is helping him to run the campaign

 

[scroobal]

I am still disturbed by the fact that he does know what smear means. Even GMS seems not to know. If my identity is known, he can't sue me because what I wrote are facts and the rest are fair comments based on these facts.

Keep up the great expose, as always. The path to pte email a lousy idea as you have replied.

Scroobal, do you have a due diligence thread on TCB? Too much noise in this forum, as always.