What has Chee Soon Juan acheieved

[zack123]

The PAP never had any economic plan beyond the Goh Kheng Swee Era either.

They hired a dutch economist in the 70s who told the govt that a high wage policy was the way to go. The NWC cranked up everyone's wages and the MNCs started leaving in droves. They had no choice but to do a U turn...no sorry.. a rethink.

In the 70s, they also decided that "stop at 2" was good for the economy. A decade down the road. ... it was "oops".. I think we need 3 or more if we can afford it.

They've also gone through umpteen "HUB" grand plans... none of which have ever taken off.

Gambling used to be bad for the economy and Motor racing was for Ah Bengs with souped up Celicas and Nissan SSSs.

Now gambling is the saviour of the economy and Motor Racing is the best thing that ever happened to sillypore.

The final solution to keeping singapore going... let in 3/4 of the Chinese female population so they can sell their cheebyes at every street corner.

The SDP may not have a grand economic plan but they can't possibly be any worse than the Pappies.

I'm also confident that the SDP would rank citizens ahead of foreigners. The PAP treats Sinkies worse than a bad smell. I've never come across a govt that gives more privileges and spends more tax money on foreigners than it does it's own citizens.

So policies should never change and remain status quo?
Can we have an example of a country whose policy had been consistent ever since and is currently amongst the top in world economic rankings please.

 

[Leongsam]

So policies should never change and remain status quo?
Can we have an example of a country whose policy had been consistent ever since and is currently amongst the top in world economic rankings please.

The USA is tops. Federal govt has NO economic policy. The FED Reserve is in charge of monetary policy while the Bills, the Steves, the Larry's etc take the country to the top and keep it there.

States DO have economic policy. 52 states compete against each other to attract investments.

The best govt is one that keeps out of trying to run businesses and pick winners.

 

[gavyap]

On the surface, it would seem CSJ is a politcal failure, but if we look deeper, we will realised that he has made us realise the flaws in our government.

The problem is when you speak the truth the power structure in Sg, the govt will do all it can to cast you as a satan. As the expression goes, give a dog a bad name and hang him. So maybe, CSJ contains the politcal truth of where we should go after all.

Isn't it so that the truth hurts.

 

[lockliberal]

I agree. The biggest downfall of the PAP would be it has made Singaporeans unable to have access to the truth. That would hurt our culture and economic survival in the longer term.

 

[kakowi]

Fairness is important in assessing Chee Soon Juan's contribution.

Unless it is fairness from the eyes of a partisan supporter from either side. Because even Hitler and Stalin, both authoritarians, feel they are fair.

...

It is unfair to ask if Chee Soon Juan has a viable Defence, Finance, etc policy for the simple reason that he does not have the opportunity to formulate a viable policy.

You must note that even for those with experience, it is very difficult to formulate so small a thing as a specific policy. If you do not believe, try to formulate a policy that Mas Selamat, when captured, will definitely not escape. It is such a small policy, yet so difficult to formulate, even for those who profess to great talent.

So how can you expect Chee Soon Juan to formulate big and broad policies?

...

Of course, this is not to say that I am a supporter of Chee Soon Juan, as should be apparent if you ever read my earlier posts. However, it is not right to ask the impossible from the Opposition when even the Proposition cannot do the possible!

 

[chinkangkor]

Would you vote for him given the way he had potrayed himself? Yes we need good opposition leaders to have a proper balance and check system but don't vote for the opposition just for the sake of having an opposition member in Parliament.

I dun have respect for CSJ. I think he's just an attention seeker. I would rather have Slyvia Lim who has the makings of a good opposition leader.

It is the 154th that has portrayed CSJ in the worse possible light. What he does is perfectly legitimate.

Don't vote for any political party just purely on past performance records as those people who achieved those sterling performance have long gone into retirements. Judge all politicians on whether their arguments are sound, valid and convincing rather than having a blind faith and hopes place solely on historical performances from ancient past.

 

[chinkangkor]

Shouting at the top of your lungs challenging a PM during his election campaign does not make you an effective leader. Both CJS and SL are intellectuals but SL has the finesse in bringing out her point. Being cool headed does not equate cowardice.

You don't need someone like CJS whose main objective is to shout "injustice" all over the world. So what is his alternative? Remove PAP and then what happens next?

CSJ is trying to effect change through his civil disobedience campaign to expose unjust laws and selective application of laws purely to persecute political opponents and dissidents.

Forming an alternative government is not on his agenda at the moment. It is not even on Workers Party agenda as well.

 

[scroobal]

Now hear me out. i am not affiliated to any Singaporean Political Party. But I would like to ask: What has Chee Soon Juan achieved in his years in SDP? Why has the SDP lost its seats from at least 3 in parliament during Chiam's time to none? What is Chee Soon Juan's:
?

Though I do not agree with Chee's approach to politics after the Vasoo affair, he has done alot in exposing the double standards, the partiality of some govt institutions and the inability of the Govt to handle dissent in a manner that befits a progressive and rational body.

He has also placed the govt in a difficult position where the world is concerned and keeps them on their toes.

More importantly, Singaporeans have their rose tinted glasses(courtesy of SPH Toa Payoh Brothel) wiped regularly when Chee raises an issue.

Chee interestingly will also not do well in the Malaysia landscape like the Hannah Yeohs, Sivarasas and the Tony Puas. All three are well qualified but they don't give excuses when it comes to parliamentary elections and the need to get seats. All 3 engage the electorate rather than BN. Looks at their websites. They know that it the man in the street that makes the difference.

Chee is more comfortable in an NGO role than in politics. More alturistic I suppose.

NGOs by the way are also a big no no in Singapore unless its foreign and does not get involved in local politics. There are of course some tame local NGOs but it more a gathering of gregarious chaps for self fulfillment, profile building and to sleep at nights. Its like us giving donations to some charity just because the Joneses have done so but have not clue what the end result are.

In essense, Chee tends to wake up the complacent Singaporean, reminds the civil service that their paycheck has a substantial sleep component in it and suckers the old man and his kid to put their feet in their mouth.

The mistake that we make with Chee or any other opposition figure is to gauge or judge them on the old man's yardstick. Everyone has a style and an approach. It will take myriad of approaches to have a decent set of alternatives. So any form of opposition is welcomed and must be encouraged.

 

[chinkangkor]

I firstly see no economic plan in the SDP's manifesto. Free Trade? Increase or Decrease government expenditure on infrastructure? Income Tax levels on MNCs? Interest rate/Exchange rate?

SDP also has no foreign policy. Which UN policies to support? Who should be our allies or enemies? View of America? the UN? International Institutions?

SDP has also no in depth education policy. How to manage education? Free education for primary school? More or less universities?

SDP--interior policy? What more beyond human rights? How to pacify each group?

Wouldn't it be better and wiser to concentrate limited and scarce resources on fighting for a fair electoral process and campaigning to remove unjust laws?

When politicians cannot even raise govt accountability issues during election campaigns and have to speak in a climate of fear of getting libel suits facing compliant judges, what is the point of having a manifesto detailing economic policies, foreign policies, education policies etc?

It is a silly waste of time and precious resources when you are well aware that you are not going to form the next government when the political status quo continues.

 

[leetahbar]

What a surprise. Arent you the Internet spokesperson for the PAP?

i think it wouldn't be fair if the forum host doesn't display neutrality.

chee's character is also flawed. he has never clarified how he makes a living as a bankrupt? where does he get his resources? is there any foreign backing financing him to hantam the gabramen? does his books sell very well? do peasants donate to his cause? how come he never reveal how was his biz in his TBT event in toa payoh? how much? how often? etc...etc...

will we be getting any answers? i doubt so.

 

[leetahbar]

ha ... exactly how snake turn PAP dog bark ... what time your appointment wif your PAP goodie 2 shoe MP Baey? today no dialysis ar?

if that's the case, then the real snake should forsake his phd scholarship. why bite the hand that feed that ungrateful dog who is more of a snake?

 

[Alu862]

Fairness is important in assessing Chee Soon Juan's contribution.

Unless it is fairness from the eyes of a partisan supporter from either side. Because even Hitler and Stalin, both authoritarians, feel they are fair.

...

It is unfair to ask if Chee Soon Juan has a viable Defence, Finance, etc policy for the simple reason that he does not have the opportunity to formulate a viable policy.

You must note that even for those with experience, it is very difficult to formulate so small a thing as a specific policy. If you do not believe, try to formulate a policy that Mas Selamat, when captured, will definitely not escape. It is such a small policy, yet so difficult to formulate, even for those who profess to great talent.

So how can you expect Chee Soon Juan to formulate big and broad policies?

...

Of course, this is not to say that I am a supporter of Chee Soon Juan, as should be apparent if you ever read my earlier posts. However, it is not right to ask the impossible from the Opposition when even the Proposition cannot do the possible!

Chee has all the chance to form viable policies and present them, especially online. Instead, he waste the SDP's website by show everything negative and PROVIDING NOTHING CONCRETE IN RETURN. How do we know we will be safe under Chee's rule?

 

[Alu862]

Wouldn't it be better and wiser to concentrate limited and scarce resources on fighting for a fair electoral process and campaigning to remove unjust laws?

When politicians cannot even raise govt accountability issues during election campaigns and have to speak in a climate of fear of getting libel suits facing compliant judges, what is the point of having a manifesto detailing economic policies, foreign policies, education policies etc?

It is a silly waste of time and precious resources when you are well aware that you are not going to form the next government when the political status quo continues.

People cannot receive benfits buy just fighting for unjust laws. If ther was a substantial and viable alternative plan, there would be more votes for the SDP. Sadly, this is not the case. It is the only political party to lose the highest number of votes in Singapore's history.

 

[leetahbar]

Ah... so that's what the "+" are for.... gracias!

What is the plan? Show me and i may vote for them

Chee has all the chance to form viable policies and present them, especially online. Instead, he waste the SDP's website by show everything negative and PROVIDING NOTHING CONCRETE IN RETURN. How do we know we will be safe under Chee's rule?

chee is negative? this shows he only fighting for himself - his personal vendetta against the famiLEE. he's making use of peasants and his small bunch of followers to spread his gospel.

he has to do better than that if he wants PEOPLES' POWER backing him. the same peoples' power can also go against him and expose his hidden agenda.

 

[Alu862]

Though I do not agree with Chee's approach to politics after the Vasoo affair, he has done alot in exposing the double standards, the partiality of some govt institutions and the inability of the Govt to handle dissent in a manner that befits a progressive and rational body.

He has also placed the govt in a difficult position where the world is concerned and keeps them on their toes.

More importantly, Singaporeans have their rose tinted glasses(courtesy of SPH Toa Payoh Brothel) wiped regularly when Chee raises an issue.

Chee interestingly will also not do well in the Malaysia landscape like the Hannah Yeohs, Sivarasas and the Tony Puas. All three are well qualified but they don't give excuses when it comes to parliamentary elections and the need to get seats. All 3 engage the electorate rather than BN. Looks at their websites. They know that it the man in the street that makes the difference.

Chee is more comfortable in an NGO role than in politics. More alturistic I suppose.

NGOs by the way are also a big no no in Singapore unless its foreign and does not get involved in local politics. There are of course some tame local NGOs but it more a gathering of gregarious chaps for self fulfillment, profile building and to sleep at nights. Its like us giving donations to some charity just because the Joneses have done so but have not clue what the end result are.

In essense, Chee tends to wake up the complacent Singaporean, reminds the civil service that their paycheck has a substantial sleep component in it and suckers the old man and his kid to put their feet in their mouth.

The mistake that we make with Chee or any other opposition figure is to gauge or judge them on the old man's yardstick. Everyone has a style and an approach. It will take myriad of approaches to have a decent set of alternatives. So any form of opposition is welcomed and must be encouraged.

Political parties are suppose to provide viable opinions for the people, not to contniue to bitch about the other side. TheSdp has posted so many PAP failings but has not shown what they would do in return.

 

[marbles]

I suspect this Alu862 is a pap apologist,very much similar to one female forummer back in delphi,pmonkey and some others which i cannot recall at the moment.

first saying the oppositions are incapable,giving "neutral" opinions,then defending the pap machinery with "neutral" opinions.

best of all,they claim they are "neutral"

watever CSJ/SDP has done,they at least are making people see,for the first time,how corrupt,flawed the pap is.something with was LONG OVERDUE.no doubt,they might not come up with concrete solutions to the problems we are all facing,but at least they are NOT ADDING to the problems.

what has pap done?

Raised GST,Increase ERP gantaries,Increase ERP toll fees,Increase waiting time of MRT,Increase Temperature in MRT cabin to "save" electricity,Increase staple food prices.

Increase EVERYTHING but NOT OUR SALARIES.and why?because of market demand.market demand MY ASS.total BULLSHIT.

CSJ may have achieved nothing.But famiLEE?they only achieved in bringing sgreans from 3rd world to 1st and back.

*clap clap clap*

 

[Alu862]

I am not from the PAP nor am I a PAP supporter. I am questioning Chee Soon Juan--what has he done for Singapore and for the SDP.

Political parties are suppose to provide substantial policies for the people, not simply to blast away at other parties and hope to win.

"they only achieved in bringing sgreans from 3rd world to 1st and back."--in terms of political progress this is true. But in terms of economic progress, are you stating we are still backward like Sub Saharan Africa?

 

[JPMorgan8888]

chee is negative? this shows he only fighting for himself - his personal vendetta against the famiLEE. he's making use of peasants and his small bunch of followers to spread his gospel.

he has to do better than that if he wants PEOPLES' POWER backing him. the same peoples' power can also go against him and expose his hidden agenda.

He's only human la. If the leegime has bankrupted you and impounded you like a rabid dog, you'd also have a personal vendetta against the Lees.

Making use of the peasants is despicable, just like how the Lees have used the peasants. But this is politics. Who really cares for the peasants, the karang guni people and the old? Not the politicians.

 

[zack123]

I am not from the PAP nor am I a PAP supporter. I am questioning Chee Soon Juan--what has he done for Singapore and for the SDP.

Political parties are suppose to provide substantial policies for the people, not simply to blast away at other parties and hope to win.

"they only achieved in bringing sgreans from 3rd world to 1st and back."--in terms of political progress this is true. But in terms of economic progress, are you stating we are still backward like Sub Saharan Africa?

True true. 2 wrongs doesn't make a right. Yes many are non-supporters of PAP but yet they are forced to vote for PAP due to the circumstances. Why? Because the opposition esp CSJ does not provide much credibility.

As a politician, apart from being critical of the current policies, you need to recommend viable alternatives. If not, what is the difference between him and those who sit at coffeeshops trying to solve the world's problems. And also one need to conduct oneself in a manner which would be expected of a leader - calm and composed in a proper debate instead of engaging in a shouting game.

 

[Alu862]

He's only human la. If the leegime has bankrupted you and impounded you like a rabid dog, you'd also have a personal vendetta against the Lees.

Making use of the peasants is despicable, just like how the Lees have used the peasants. But this is politics. Who really cares for the peasants, the karang guni people and the old? Not the politicians.

Chee's right to protest for the poor, but his protest won't move the present government. However, if he comes into power (a very minute possibility), I'm not sure what plans he'll have to aid the poor. I dobut he has any policy ready except the dream that democracy is the magic pill for everything