Undermining WP in this forum

[CannonFairy]

Definitely not WP.

Which party does the ST undermine the most over the years?

Enough said.

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[Varuna]

WP should just open itself up to listening all voices..even if its from Chua Lee Hoong. Just as politicians in United States have learnt to cultivate journalists who are sympathetic to their cause.

I would listen if it is not rubbish. But unfortunately it is.

 

[Char_Azn]

Which party does the ST undermine the most over the years?

Enough said.

That's easy. SDP. Although u have to admit, much of it is self inflicted

 

[scroobal]

This is quite common in party politics. There is a lot of emotion and passion involved in politics and not everyone can stick to the same agenda. I am also disappointed with him as he should have been above all this having led a political party to its best performance ever. Lets not forget he was instrumental in delivering the scalp of one cabinet minister.

I seriously wonder what his agenda is now or he felt that a chance at parliament was killed by WP manovering and its payback time. One can still be a strident critic of the opposition but still can keep his dignity.

He does have one serious flaw - being obstinate. The TKL incident told me that he has no clue between loyalty and blind faith. Ramseth knew much better and he should have followed his example. I am sure he never expected the extraordinary outcome of the YSL affair which gave the WP an excellent opportunity to show its colours and fly its flag even his higher.

Suddenly to all the critics, the ball bounced into the PAP court and they cannot find the ball or the bal.

I understand, but I don't know which is worse, dark agenda in favour of PAP for agenda for its own envious, jealous emotion. We have to agree that PAP has done some good for the country and it is no wonder that they would have a few supporters who would naturally be against WP or any opposition. But the NSP village insect (not NSP as a whole) has done nothing good.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Scroobal,

I am sorry to say that, don't be fooled by insects.

Time will tell who are the ones who plotted to undermine WP, even destroying it slowly. Maybe you didn't notice, insects didn't defend YSL nor WP when the issue started, only obsessed with me. That is a good clue to start with.

Goh Meng Seng

This is quite common in party politics. There is a lot of emotion and passion involved in politics and not everyone can stick to the same agenda. I am also disappointed with him as he should have been above all this having led a political party to its best performance ever. Lets not forget he was instrumental in delivering the scalp of one cabinet minister.

I seriously wonder what his agenda is now or he felt that a chance at parliament was killed by WP manovering and its payback time. One can still be a strident critic of the opposition but still can keep his dignity.

He does have one serious flaw - being obstinate. The TKL incident told me that he has no clue between loyalty and blind faith. Ramseth knew much better and he should have followed his example. I am sure he never expected the extraordinary outcome of the YSL affair and gave the WP an excellent opportunity to show its colours and fly his flag even his higher.

 

[scroobal]

Clinton and RonRon are the two best things to happen to this forum. I am sort of convinced that they are totally against the PAP. The way they the paint the PAP even Sear Hock Rong is no up. These guys damage the PAP so badly that I am sure they are trying to figure out what to do.

Maybe the PAP finally got their IB team act together and decided to stop sending pple like Clinton666 and RonRon

 

[scroobal]

Lets assume that he is indeed responsible for undermining the Party and everything is his doing. That does not excuse your conduct. As someone who is honours grad, a former SG, a candidate for parliament on 2 occasions etc, you never ever stoop to such a low level. These things will come eventally fall into place. As I said, party politics involves emotion and passion. There are many who have toiled over years when opposition politics was such a dirty word only to see their place gone. Eric Tan is one such example. Thats reality and thats politics.

Lets leave the dirty work to people like Chua sisters and state media. Sadly except for Ms Chua the rest of state press left their powder dry.

Scroobal,

I am sorry to say that, don't be fooled by insects.

Time will tell who are the ones who plotted to undermine WP, even destroying it slowly. Maybe you didn't notice, insects didn't defend YSL nor WP when the issue started, only obsessed with me. That is a good clue to start with.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Excellent piece bro. Could we have more. Looks like you have been sleeping at the back of the class for sometime.

WP has to go through this period of baptism by fire. It is good for the party. It will strengthen the members (at least those who stick around) and help it galvanise itself to becoming a true Opposition that singaporeans can put their trust in...when one day the whole country starts to realise that the PAP of today is not the same as that of the 60s and 70s and start looking for a saviour.

WP should just open itself up to listening all voices..even if its from Chua Lee Hoong. Just as politicians in United States have learnt to cultivate journalists who are sympathetic to their cause, I do think that there are very few in the PAP camp that are truly die-hard.

PAPs "success" is based purely on its ability to build buildings and earn money from everyone, including its poor. The passion that flows through the WP does not flow through the PAP supporters. Many will just switch sides the minute the PAP runs out of money to distribute to them.

If WP can get its economic team into order...attract some true economists (not bogus fellas like Tan Jee Say...pui pui!!) into its fold, Singaporeans will certainly start to flock towards WP.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Apparently you have your bias.

The points raised by me throughout the saga is exactly the same as LTK. However, WP made the critical mistake of not giving appropriate comment at the start of the issue. "We don't comment on rumours" doesn't go down well with people.

I have even given the hint of "last chance" for YSL to clarify, never mind whether it is admission or denial. In fact, if you look at the time line of event, I have made timely comments as well as criticisms on what went wrong with WP and YSL management of the crisis.

I guess there are a lot of supporters like you blinded by your support for WP. Hindsight is useless in solving the problem while foresight is being seen as "attack" or "attempt to undermine" WP. I rest my case.

Goh Meng Seng

Lets assume that he is indeed responsible for undermining the Party and everything is his doing. That does not excuse your conduct. As someone who is honours grad, a former SG, a candidate for parliament on 2 occasions etc, you never ever stoop to such a low level. These things will come eventally fall into place. As I said, party politics involves emotion and passion. There are many who have toiled over years when opposition politics was such a dirty word only to see their place gone. Eric Tan is one such example. Thats reality and thats politics.

Lets leave the dirty work to people like Chua sisters and state media. Sadly except for Ms Chua the rest of state press left their powder dry.

 

[mesmerised]

I would listen if it is not rubbish. But unfortunately it is.

Yes. WP yet to bring in intellectuals into its fold yet. What it has are plenty of passionate souls who can be highly emotional and erratic. LTK, SL and CSM can be the glue to keep the party intact. But to move from rhetoric to truly providing alternative solutions, they need to bring in others. Unfortunately , those with that intellectual bandwidth had grouped themselves under SDP and locked themselves up with CSJ.

WP had a bad showing during the Salary debate. The next huge opportunity will come with the budget debate. Budget 2012 is full of holes and it's important that WP put in proposals and counter arguments that will show it for what it is : throwing more good money to save bad policies.

The GPC Chairs will be out to prove their mettle. If again WP comes out short, Duchess Chua Lee Hoong will have another field day squirting her juice at the WP MPs faces!

 

[Perspective]

This is quite common in party politics. There is a lot of emotion and passion involved in politics and not everyone can stick to the same agenda. I am also disappointed with him as he should have been above all this having led a political party to its best performance ever. Lets not forget he was instrumental in delivering the scalp of one cabinet minister.

I seriously wonder what his agenda is now or he felt that a chance at parliament was killed by WP manovering and its payback time. One can still be a strident critic of the opposition but still can keep his dignity.

He does have one serious flaw - being obstinate. The TKL incident told me that he has no clue between loyalty and blind faith. Ramseth knew much better and he should have followed his example. I am sure he never expected the extraordinary outcome of the YSL affair which gave the WP an excellent opportunity to show its colours and fly its flag even his higher.

Suddenly to all the critics, the ball bounced into the PAP court and they cannot find the ball or the bal.

I am beginning to suspect that Brocoli may have a point.

Everyone is talking about whether Yaw did right or wrong or whether WP did well or not. Only one person (or fat insect) was more interested in the cause or the source of the news that brought Yaw down - and firmly pointed to someone else.

Now, the person whom he claims brought Yaw down is unlikely to be on talking terms with him or confided in him, so how did the chap know it was him and be so confirmed? Furthermore, he does not dare name the person to date despite being so confirmed. Before Brocoli accused him, no one was pushing it to him and he was already pointing fingers to the "cause". As himself said "此地无银三百两".

There is also the long period/history of engaging the Chinese press that started the news.

There is one more thing. Three women in the whole opposition camp had known Yaw since varsity days - Angela Oon, Frieda Chan and Lee Wai Leng. The first two became "connected" to Yaw's "affair". The third went to NSP and is close to the fat insect, hence spared. All the puzzles seem to fit.

I believe it's not a sole effort but if he managed to "assist" in bringing Yaw down, Yaw was partly to blame for having skeletons. But it's scary, devious insect who does that to his former friends and then, on top of that, tries to frame and link more people who are former friends for his work. Wonder what was Jixiaolan thinking to try and "patch up". And I feel sad for his brother who died for this kind of cause and brother.

I am not trying to bring you into this, Scroobal. Just that at next GE 2016, if you hear forummers who live in the constituency he contest, under whichever opposition party it will be, say they will spoil their vote or vote PAP because of him, please don't blame them or ask them to "look at the bigger picture". Because they might really be looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Perspective]

Lets assume that he is indeed responsible for undermining the Party and everything is his doing. That does not excuse your conduct. As someone who is honours grad, a former SG, a candidate for parliament on 2 occasions etc, you never ever stoop to such a low level. These things will come eventally fall into place. As I said, party politics involves emotion and passion. There are many who have toiled over years when opposition politics was such a dirty word only to see their place gone. Eric Tan is one such example. Thats reality and thats politics.

Lets leave the dirty work to people like Chua sisters and state media. Sadly except for Ms Chua the rest of state press left their powder dry.

I have to agree that insects didn't defend YSL nor WP when the issue started, only obsessed with me, Perspective, as the cause.

 

[byleftcan]

Clinton and RonRon are the two best things to happen to this forum. I am sort of convinced that they are totally against the PAP. The way they the paint the PAP even Sear Hock Rong is no up. These guys damage the PAP so badly that I am sure they are trying to figure out what to do.

And the old saying for these PAP diehards - with friends like that, who needs enemies?

That is the beauty of this forum. I'm not sure where satire begins and ends with some of the members here.

 

[Ramseth]

The points raised by me throughout the saga is exactly the same as LTK. However, WP made the critical mistake of not giving appropriate comment at the start of the issue. "We don't comment on rumours" doesn't go down well with people.

How and what to comment without evidence? The circumstantial evidence came only when the PRC woman accepted a press interview.

Hindsight is useless in solving the problem while foresight is being seen as "attack" or "attempt to undermine" WP. I rest my case.

[/QUOTE]

What's your foresight? No opposition members and not even PAP members have any case to begin with or to rest, except LHL as PAP Sec-Gen and KBW as PAP Chair uttered some nonsense since they had to in their ruling party positions after YSL expulsion was announced. Then, Speaker of Parliament Palmer followed constitutional procedure to allow YSL a week to appeal without prejudging anything. I wasn't surprised, neither do I blame them. But you? What has it got to with you?

 

[skponggol]

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[Perspective]

If there has been more organised and much earlier attempt to "undermine" WP, perhaps, the Yaw Shin Leong Incident would not occur.

Who expose YSL ? The WP's non-existent "魏徵" ? The WP cadres ? The WP leaders ?

It is WP hard-core so-called critics like TR Emeritus and MSM...

Without these "enemies", Yaw would still happily and proudly serve as WP MP, screwing more women, causing greater long-term damage to WP, especially closer to the election.

Instead of asking why these so-called "enemies" are so eager to destroy Yaw, why don't you ask why those WP "supporters" are so eager to cover-up and defend Yaw before the scandal broke up till he was sacked.

Who is helping WP and who is hurting WP ???

To be frank, I can't disagree. Some said it was only less than 1 year, but the worst the "Yawgate" would inevitably happen is in, say, 2015. Then even Aljunied may bye bye.

Not that I agree you (SKP) were "helping" WP. I know you won't, though now I know you and not with PAP and sorry for that.

 

[byleftcan]

Who is helping WP and who is hurting WP ???

Good question. The irony of the more "help" rendered, the more harm inflicted instead. Those who tried to downplay the issue and allowed the matter to fester did more harm then help. These people in WP who pushed for that position would gradually be sidelined in the party.

Thankfully the WP leadership cut the Gordian Knot and went for double or nothing. They know that even if there is a by-election, Hougang would still be theirs. WP is more and bigger than Yaw Shin Leong, Low Thia Khiang or other individuals. It is not like SDP, PAP or SPP where one strong character defined party image.

 

[skponggol]

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[Thick Face Black Heart]

Lets assume that he is indeed responsible for undermining the Party and everything is his doing. That does not excuse your conduct. As someone who is honours grad, a former SG, a candidate for parliament on 2 occasions etc, you never ever stoop to such a low level. These things will come eventally fall into place. As I said, party politics involves emotion and passion. There are many who have toiled over years when opposition politics was such a dirty word only to see their place gone. Eric Tan is one such example. Thats reality and thats politics.

Lets leave the dirty work to people like Chua sisters and state media. Sadly except for Ms Chua the rest of state press left their powder dry.

Everything that GMS says is based on hunches, unreliable sources of info, gut feel, and pure speculation. Other than GMS, we should leave TRE and ShinMin to engage in such behaviour. It does not contribute at all to the health of the discourse or to the opposition movement. People who care about their own image or dignity do not involve themselves in such a manner.

One good thing that has come out of the YSL fiasco is that they discovered his character flaw sooner rather than later. We now know he has a bad habit of running away from problems and becoming uncontactable when things go awry. Imagine if issues had cropped up at the local constituency level a couple of years into his term, when he had already made an impact and cemented bonds with all residents. The potential damage he could have done would be far greater because of the time he already had as MP. In a sense, its good he's out sooner rather than later.

As for Richard and TRE, Richard Wan will one day learn to be more discerning, but sadly I suspect not without paying a hefty price first. TRE is a volatile site, you're not sure when it will explode one day and drag him into the murky depths. The number rule of engagement is you reveal your ID only when everyone in the room has pledged to do likewise. He's obviously being made up of to front an operation and to bear the mess should they fumble.

 

[skponggol]

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