TKL has a WARNING for Scroobal.....

[Unrepented]

Between TCB and TKL. What makes you guess TKL most likely?

Well as mentioned, I hope to see a little more abrasion. There may or may not be any. If gahmen treats him well, and assuming his zeal to fight for the common man is still there, then he will have more leverage. To my mind, I just can't picture TT going against his former political masters. TCB, maybe he will. TKL, most likely. Again, these are all just guesses. So, my preference is TKL, TCB, TT.

 

[Windsor]

Yep, everyone has an asshole (very clever deduction of yours), and each is entitled to his/her opinion. What we are all doing is crystal ball gazing, based on precedence and what we read or know about what those three incumbents have done. We extrapolate from there and hope the person performs as anticipated. The supposedly "good things" that TT and TCB will do as president is also wishing thinking (in the same vein that you mentioned my statement was wishing thinking).

I refer you back to my statement : TKL is not in an advantaged position in this EP race. He's up against a previously PAP-linked giant. And a disgruntled ex-PAP. Both have huge support bases, having cultivated support in their many years of party service. In the front line and in the lime light. For TKL, he does not have that opportunity, save for the mini-bond episode. And yet, you persist in asking me for examples and substantiation. What he has done was in his personal capacity as a private citizen, and gleamed through conversations that some had with him, as well as read from his blogs.

So, tell me. Why do you think TT or TCB will make a good EP? In the end, the power of the EP is very limited anyway. Regardless of which one gets to be EP, life will go on as usual. Just that with TKL, I hope to see a little more abrasion! Get it?

In response, you are trying to avoid my very first opening question, so I will repeat it. Please explain to us in what way has he been a thorn in the side of the PAP? Has he been an obstacle or a nuisance to the PAP?

That was not an opinion you expressed, that was a statement you made. It was referring to the past and not as you put it crystal ball gazing,

I asked you for substantiation when you state he was a thorn in the side of the PAP and I put in affirmation that indeed he did something in the mini-bonds sage but apart from that he did nothing else. So please go back to the first question.

As for the wishful part, I accept that your statement that he speaking against the government was something he never did, except in his personal capacity, gleaned from reading his blogs. That is hearsay and unsubstantiated for anyone can write and say things in their personal blog. It is up to the reader to believe whether it is true or otherwise.

You have still not replied to my 3rd question so I will repost it:

"Thirdly, you have characterised TKL as a person who has tenacity and determination. Perhaps you can provide examples when he has shown how tenacious and determined he was?"

You came back all fired up rebutting me but not replying to my question 1 and 3. So I still do not get it. I am sure these 2 simple questions can be easily answered.

 

[karmabear]

OK I think TKL is improving his game now. If you look at his facebook and blog, his posts are much better and more worthy of attention. I think through sammyboy, he start seeing the light and ignore some of GMS fucked advice. I bet he picked up a lot of tips on how not to be a loser here. Nabei, he should start paying us some consulting fees.

http://networkedblogs.com/jPkCw

 

[glockman]

Between TCB and TKL. What makes you guess TKL most likely?

Maybe this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKw8ahcS1Oo&playnext=1&list=PL232C4D4CEFE0C75B

 

[glockman]

In response, you are trying to avoid my very first opening question, so I will repeat it. Please explain to us in what way has he been a thorn in the side of the PAP? Has he been an obstacle or a nuisance to the PAP?

That was not an opinion you expressed, that was a statement you made. It was referring to the past and not as you put it crystal ball gazing,

I asked you for substantiation when you state he was a thorn in the side of the PAP and I put in affirmation that indeed he did something in the mini-bonds sage but apart from that he did nothing else. So please go back to the first question.

As for the wishful part, I accept that your statement that he speaking against the government was something he never did, except in his personal capacity, gleaned from reading his blogs. That is hearsay and unsubstantiated for anyone can write and say things in their personal blog. It is up to the reader to believe whether it is true or otherwise.

You have still not replied to my 3rd question so I will repost it:

"Thirdly, you have characterised TKL as a person who has tenacity and determination. Perhaps you can provide examples when he has shown how tenacious and determined he was?"

You came back all fired up rebutting me but not replying to my question 1 and 3. So I still do not get it. I am sure these 2 simple questions can be easily answered.

OK, ok, you have your opinion. Stick with them if it floats your boat. Its not for me to educate you. His being a thorn in the side, pain in the arse, etc were done in his capacity as a private citizen (again I am stressing this). Go read his blogs, watch his youtube videos. Then maybe, your points 1,2,3,4 etc will be answered. And forget about my questions to you, don't answer them, I won't persist to ask. You're quite a tedious creature, a vexation to the spirit.

 

[Unrepented]

Another forumer has posted this and tcb video for comparison, about a week ago.

Frankly, many rally speakers had done better. I am still not convinced by your argument and statements. But thank you the reply

How about replying to forumer windsor's queries if you may

Maybe this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKw8ahcS1Oo&playnext=1&list=PL232C4D4CEFE0C75B

 

[Windsor]

Bro, believe me, I get you where your concerns on having a checker and cpf, etc are concerned.

What I'm trying to understand is why some think that the relationship between pap government and TKL will be an antagonistic one and that TKL will be constantly fighting for the peoples' rights, whereas TCB and TT will not?

Or as bro Windsor points out, the president's powers are limited anyway. Even if the relationship between TKL and pap government was antagonistic, would this be better for ordinary Singaporeans than if TCB or TT was the president?

I have already stated that the EP cannot interfere with how the CPF should be collected, dispense and whatnots where it concerns the citizens. It only affects CPF as stated in Wiki as:

"changing or increase in powers of the Central Provident Fund Board to invest moneys belonging to it;[22] and the borrowing of money, the giving of any guarantee or the raising of any loan by the Government if in the President's opinion the bill is likely to draw on reserves not accumulated by the Government during its current term of office."

And the selection of key appointments within the organisation.

Mind you he to consult his team of presidential advisers before making any decision.

The relationship between the EP and the government can never be one that is antagonistic as some supporters of TKL were led to believe. You can read their posts which even mentioned the EP as "opposition EP."

I do share your view that it is preferable to have TKL or TCB as EP rather than TT. Let us wait for the COE to be out before we beat our drums.

 

[Windsor]

Another forumer has posted this and tcb video for comparison, about a week ago.

Frankly, many rally speakers had done better. I am still not convinced by your argument and statements. But thank you the reply

How about replying to forumer windsor's queries if you may

Apparently he has already decided not to answer and back up on what he wrote. So I can only conclude that in reality TKL has never been a thorn in the side of the PAP and everything he said about TKL are his own perceptions, not to be taken seriously.

 

[scroobal]

Yes. CEC appoints a cadre and vice versa. It is an ingenious closed loop system and devised by Toh Chin Chye and follows the Papacy in the Vatican. Being a PAP member for 100 years is worthless as they cannot influence anything including voting for the leadership. Being a cadre is a different ball game. Cadre appointments are never revealed to the general membership. Cadres only realise who new cadres are when they turn up to vote the CEC.

There are about 6,000 which only grew in the last 10 years. 20 years ago there were less than a 1,000. The list of cadres are not kept by branch but by PAP HQ and known only by key party members.

Eh scroobal,

Correct me if I m wrong, to b a cadre member you need to b sponsored either by a cadre or CEC member rte? Does that mean he had to be trusted by e party coz I read that the idea of getting such sponsors is to ensure that e CEC never falls into external ctrl? If so then he must be a v trusted member back than rte? N prob impt as well since e CEC is voted in by e cadres??
N if so, he wasn't honest in saying he wasn't impt then

 

[tanwahtiu]

wah lan, you mean there is a secret society in Singapore operated by PAP, better migrate and leave it to Ah nehs and Ah Tiongs to break this gangster.

Yes. CEC appoints a cadre and vice versa. It is an ingenious closed loop system and devised by Toh Chin Chye and follows the Papacy in the Vatican. Being a PAP member for 100 years is worthless as they cannot influence anything including voting for the leadership. Being a cadre is a different ball game. Cadre appointments are never revealed to the general membership. Cadres only realise who new cadres are when they turn up to vote the CEC.

There are about 6,000 which only grew in the last 10 years. 20 years ago there were less than a 1,000. The list of cadres are not kept by branch but by PAP HQ and known only by key party members.

 

[jw5]

I do share your view that it is preferable to have TKL or TCB as EP rather than TT. Let us wait for the COE to be out before we beat our drums.

Bro Windsor,

My choices in order of preference are now TCB, TT and then TKL.
Yes, even TT before TKL.

 

[bearpaws]

scroobal: would it be fair to state that each and every member of the elite pyramid club would thus be a cadre member(but not vice versa?)

 

[sense]

Yes. CEC appoints a cadre and vice versa. It is an ingenious closed loop system and devised by Toh Chin Chye and follows the Papacy in the Vatican. Being a PAP member for 100 years is worthless as they cannot influence anything including voting for the leadership. Being a cadre is a different ball game. Cadre appointments are never revealed to the general membership. Cadres only realise who new cadres are when they turn up to vote the CEC.

Interesting insight.

Is TKL still part of the 6000 cadres now?

Am I too far off to say that TKL became a 'PAP cadre-reject', thus explaining his post-30yrs resentment with the PAP? Otherwise, what is the key reason on why he became fed-up with the PAP? :*:

I've found and have archived a 1998 ST article on PAP cadre and it's interested to note how WKS tried to downplay the role of a cadre: http://is.qd/LWE0RR

On further thought, I doubt TCB is a cadre, in view of the thorny issues that he tends to raise with the PAP. On the other hand, it would be a major surprise if TT is not a cadre. Wonder what negative impact do we get if a PAP cadre is also the Singapore President, hmmmm...

 

[Windsor]

Bro Windsor,

My choices in order of preference are now TCB, TT and then TKL.
Yes, even TT before TKL.

Bro...making sense out of this, it clearly shows that the PAP is not good for Singapore. There are good people running the country, there is never a doubt. It is the style of governance and the legacy left by the old man. As long as he is alive, any changes will be cosmetic at best, but not overhauling the entire machinery especially those who push the control buttons. The monopolistic policies and the tight control the PAP has on the country will only court disaster for slowly but surely, there has been a reduction in numbers of potential leaders left.

We see this even before GCT took over and in the 2011 GE, the PAP fielded individuals who fell short of our expectations. They have admitted that good leaders are getting scarce and therefore the bar has been lowered to admit these individuals into their ranks.

However I am not going to say more on this subject as this is the wrong thread and has no relevance here. I envision a renewed Singapore that will see the future generations of Singaporeans through the 20th Century after 2016 but complete change after 2020.

 

[jw5]

Bro...making sense out of this, it clearly shows that the PAP is not good for Singapore. There are good people running the country, there is never a doubt. It is the style of governance and the legacy left by the old man. As long as he is alive, any changes will be cosmetic at best, but overhauling the entire machinery especially those who push the control buttons. The monopolistic policies and the tight control the PAP has on the country will only court disaster for slowly but surely, there has been a reduction in numbers of potential leaders left.

Bro, if you scrutinize the things TKL have done and said, not sure how different he is from some pappies over the years. Not even looking at the years he was in pap.
Say something negative about him, it's smears. Ask supporters and detractors to e-mail him to "have a chat". I think I prefer my president to be "aloof", rather than to ask people "for a chat".

He mentioned Tang Liang Hong's case, which has really pissed me off. Did he mention it because he agreed with pap's actions? If he agreed, he's no better than them. Did he mention it because he disagreed with pap's actions? This incident happened in 1997/8, was he a pap member then? If he disagreed, why didn't he resign?
Third option. He neither agreed nor disagreed. Then why mention it?

 

[BusNo64]

.............

PORLUMPAR!! :oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[Windsor]

Bro, if you scrutinize the things TKL have done and said, not sure how different he is from some pappies over the years. Not even looking at the years he was in pap.
Say something negative about him, it's smears. Ask supporters and detractors to e-mail him to "have a chat". I think I prefer my president to be "aloof", rather than to ask people "for a chat".

He mentioned Tang Liang Hong's case, which has really pissed me off. Did he mention it because he agreed with pap's actions? If he agreed, he's no better than them. Did he mention it because he disagreed with pap's actions? This incident happened in 1997/8, was he a pap member then? If he disagreed, why didn't he resign?
Third option. He neither agreed nor disagreed. Then why mention it?

I agree with your observations. I have said all I need to say about him for now. I am more interested to wait for the COE before I give my 2 cents worth. Without knowing who is eligible to be a candidate, our time mulling over these issues can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Debonerman]

I agree with your observations. I have said all I need to say about him for now. I am more interested to wait for the COE before I give my 2 cents worth. Without knowing who is eligible to be a candidate, our time mulling over these issues can be better spent elsewhere.

Like Tin Pei Ling's billboard for MacPherson SMC? Who says she is not willing to take one on one with any Nicole Seahs in an SMC?

 

[Windsor]

Like Tin Pei Ling's billboard for MacPherson SMC? Who says she is not willing to take one on one with any Nicole Seahs in an SMC?

Now that you mentioned it, TPL can do as she wants as she was elected. Nicole is meant for better things but has to bide her time. If anyone were to ask me, she is wasting her time in Macpherson. There are bigger fish to fry.

 

[scroobal]

No, resigned from PAP one year after the he retired in 2008. He was however a cadre when it numbered a few hundred in the early days he continued to be cadres until 2008. Cadre who no longer participate are removed from the register. You cannot remain inactive and still remain on the register. No only MPs are not aware of the register it also includes some cabinet ministers. The man entrusted to keep inner secrets of PAP not only from members and the general public is former head of IT for OCBC and former MP Lau Ping Sum. Note the link to OCBC again.

All MPs automatically become cadres in order that they can direct branch secretaries who are all not only cadres but trusted and totally committed. But MPs are cadres by default.

You must resign from all political parties to be President.

It should be known that not all cadres turn for the 2 year session to elect the CEC. There is a more powerful group made up of movers and shakers who only come in the event of factionalism. That is why the register is kept secret.

Interesting insight.

Is TKL still part of the 6000 cadres now?

Am I too far off to say that TKL became a 'PAP cadre-reject', thus explaining his post-30yrs resentment with the PAP? Otherwise, what is the key reason on why he became fed-up with the PAP? :*:

I've found and have archived a 1998 ST article on PAP cadre and it's interested to note how WKS tried to downplay the role of a cadre: http://is.qd/LWE0RR

On further thought, I doubt TCB is a cadre, in view of the thorny issues that he tends to raise with the PAP. On the other hand, it would be a major surprise if TT is not a cadre. Wonder what negative impact do we get if a PAP cadre is also the Singapore President, hmmmm...