TKL has a WARNING for Scroobal.....

[Unrepented]

This is exactly one of additional issues with this candidate after reading the post by forumer kinlian. I didn't want to comment inorder to cut him some slack.

If the post he held as a pap cadre is as impotent as he painted, then..... why hold if for 30 years? Part of his job requirement in ntuc? What were the benefits of being a cadre such that one would want to hold it for 30 years

He was one of very first cadre members of the party, a position he held for 30 years until one year after his retirement. You can only become a cadre in the early years if you are trusted and regarded as a party inner and not merely a follower as they select the all powerful CEC.

 

[jw5]

Be more focus on the fruits as we see there is not many fruit checkers to choose from and let's find a alternative solution EP that will check the fruits and report to the people.

Bro tanwahtiu

May I ask you a question?
Many supporters of TKL assume that the relationship between the pap government and TKL will be an antagonistic one and he will "fight" for the peoples' rights and the country's benefits against a supposedly "oppressive" government.
What if he becomes president, and the pap government shows a lot of respect and deference to him?
Why do you assume that he will be a "fighter" for the rights and benefits of ordinary Singaporeans against the pap government whereas TCB and even TT will not?

 

[tanwahtiu]

If PAP from the begining has had showed accountability there should not be an issue today. OTC has tried and failed and there is already a lesson we learned from it. We don't put in a fighter we put in a checker. PAP is not oppresive gahment, it is they refused to be checked where the fruits are and how many are there. people want their CFP money when they hit 55 and when that cannot be retrieve at age 55 people will suspect what happen to the fruits in GIC and TH?

So the issue of EP is tied together with the withdrawing of CPF money at age 55, fair dinkum? If there is more than enough money in the CPF board to withdraw at 55 I believe many don't be bothered who to vote for EP? At least we try, can we?

Bro tanwahtiu

May I ask you a question?
Many supporters of TKL assume that the relationship between the pap government and TKL will be an antagonistic one and he will "fight" for the peoples' rights and the country's benefits against a supposedly "oppressive" government.
What if he becomes president, and the pap government shows a lot of respect and deference to him?
Why do you assume that he will be a "fighter" for the rights and benefits of ordinary Singaporeans against the pap government whereas TCB and even TT will not?

 

[boman]

Not very presidential to use an American term regarding TKL's threats to sue.

 

[Unrepented]

IMO, this is a double edged sword. I am sure not only citizens are interested to know too.

A closed door committee made up of representatives elected by citizens and govt representatives.

it is they refused to be checked where the fruits are and how many are there. people want their CFP money when they hit 55 and when that cannot be retrieve at age 55 people will suspect what happen to the fruits in GIC and TH?

 

[knightriderz]

Eh scroobal,

Correct me if I m wrong, to b a cadre member you need to b sponsored either by a cadre or CEC member rte? Does that mean he had to be trusted by e party coz I read that the idea of getting such sponsors is to ensure that e CEC never falls into external ctrl? If so then he must be a v trusted member back than rte? N prob impt as well since e CEC is voted in by e cadres??
N if so, he wasn't honest in saying he wasn't impt then

This guy has real problem with managing his profile. His efforts to erase his past with the PAP by downplaying his various roles he held with it goes towards addressing his own integrity. He has repeatedly made claims of his independence, repeatedly highlighted the association of the other candidates with PAP shows how dishonest he is.

When I first revealed his past, I did not use the term dishonest but his pattern of behaviour does indicate it. The Straits Times will never reveal or highlight the political importance of such roles of Branch Secretary or the Chairman of the Citizens Consultative Committee and this chap had capitalised on it.

He was one of very first cadre members of the party, a position he held for 30 years until one year after his retirement. You can only become a cadre in the early years if you are trusted and regarded as a party inner and not merely a follower as they select the all powerful CEC.

Get this - he was a PAP member and a PAP cadre member long before Tony Tan and Tan Cheng Bock became a member and pulled up their first pair of White pants as an adult. He has also being a member of the PAP for a longer period than both of them.

How he is now claiming to be an independent and pretends no association with the PAP is beyond me. Despite making some passing remark of the PAP, he has never revealed the intnal abuse of the PAP such
- use of the tax payer funded grassroots organisation to further the cause of the PAP
- does not reveal how grassroots are used by the PAP to campaign for them
- never revealed hoe many cadres are there or who they are despite the first question raised by someone in his own blog by asking the person who raised the question to ask an appropriate question
- never revealed anything at all about the PAP except that he felt their values have changed.

The other two candidates like many MPs were asked to join after being offered a slot as a candidate for the Parliament. He however volunteered to join as a member.

 

[Windsor]

Bro tanwahtiu

May I ask you a question?
Many supporters of TKL assume that the relationship between the pap government and TKL will be an antagonistic one and he will "fight" for the peoples' rights and the country's benefits against a supposedly "oppressive" government.
What if he becomes president, and the pap government shows a lot of respect and deference to him?
Why do you assume that he will be a "fighter" for the rights and benefits of ordinary Singaporeans against the pap government whereas TCB and even TT will not?

P N Balji wrote an article on Tony Tan, which I Quote:

"An important clue popped up when he was asked about the president's role as defined by the constitution: "Obviously, no constitution is set in stone for ever, and I would expect the government of the day to review it from time to time and to make changes where necessary, with the approval of parliament."

Dr Tan is known to be careful, measured and purposeful with his words. Every statement he issues, every quote he gives and every answer he sends out is thought through with precision."

Link: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/singapore-next-president-very-different-one-071411540.html

Here it states very clearly what is expected of the EP and the limits of his powers. Consultations with the government of the day, is the key word. If TKL has any illusions that he will be the EP that can do anything different from past EPs, then he is dreaming. TCB and TT has a far bigger advantage in having been inside the inner circle of the PAP, and has a deeper insights and working knowledge and with closer links to those in the corridors of power. A far better advantage than TKL, considered as an outlier with no experience in parliament.

A big mistake is the mindset of many that TKL who is not that close to the PAP can represent the people's interest and make much needed changes. This is pure fantasy on both TKL and those who supported him. It will not happen and TKL will have to eat his words and be acquiescent.

Please read what P N Balji wrote and what Tony Tan said. Believe me that should either TT or TCB be the new EP, our hope will be that they have our interest at heart. TKL may have that but against the PAP he will definitely be stonewalled and more or less ignored. A classic example of not who you are but who you know and the compromise reached between the EP and the PAP. Direct confrontation by the EP will not achieve the desired results, trust me.

 

[Windsor]

So the issue of EP is tied together with the withdrawing of CPF money at age 55, fair dinkum? If there is more than enough money in the CPF board to withdraw at 55 I believe many don't be bothered who to vote for EP? At least we try, can we?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Executive Powers of the EP covers certain areas of the CPF but has no jurisdiction over retirement age, withdrawals or contributions. Can you specify where it is stated?

 

[tanwahtiu]

windsor,

can an oppo EP deny Old fart a grand state funeral since old fart is now a MP status only. Ep can watch how gahment is to spend tax payers money on unneccesary spending of state coffer.

 

[jw5]

If PAP from the begining has had showed accountability there should not be an issue today. OTC has tried and failed and there is already a lesson we learned from it. We don't put in a fighter we put in a checker. PAP is not oppresive gahment, it is they refused to be checked where the fruits are and how many are there. people want their CFP money when they hit 55 and when that cannot be retrieve at age 55 people will suspect what happen to the fruits in GIC and TH?

Bro, believe me, I get you where your concerns on having a checker and cpf, etc are concerned.

What I'm trying to understand is why some think that the relationship between pap government and TKL will be an antagonistic one and that TKL will be constantly fighting for the peoples' rights, whereas TCB and TT will not?

Or as bro Windsor points out, the president's powers are limited anyway. Even if the relationship between TKL and pap government was antagonistic, would this be better for ordinary Singaporeans than if TCB or TT was the president?

 

[tanwahtiu]

Make amendment to it, constitution is man made and can bend to suit the current situation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Executive Powers of the EP covers certain areas of the CPF but has no jurisdiction over retirement age, withdrawals or contributions. Can you specify where it is stated?

 

[jw5]

Please read what P N Balji wrote and what Tony Tan said. Believe me that should either TT or TCB be the new EP, our hope will be that they have our interest at heart. TKL may have that but against the PAP he will definitely be stonewalled and more or less ignored. A classic example of not who you are but who you know and the compromise reached between the EP and the PAP. Direct confrontation by the EP will not achieve the desired results, trust me.

That's a good point. Yes, I know what TT has been for the most part of his life.
He's a smart rich guy born with a silver spoon, who doesn't understand a lot of things.
But if someone tells me that he will be compliant and in cahoots with a potentially rogue government or ministars, I find it hard to believe.
NOT saying that the other 2 will, just in case anyone whines about smearing.

The elected president has limited powers. He's not going to block a significant number of potentially draconian policies, certainly not going to introduce his own policies. The issue is not about whether we hate pap, or who is associated more with pap, or who will take on the pap more, or who will be less compliant.

The issue is about who is the most suitable person to be president of our country and who will benefit the country and the ordinary people more.
As I said before, if this was TKL (opposition party) vs TCB (pap), I would vote for the former.
My personal choices for elected president are, in order, TCB, TT and TKL. Really.

 

[tanwahtiu]

Now that WP has entered Parliment winning Aljunied GRC, will they be antagonising the PAP? No! it is peoples' choice to put them in and up to them to perform and win peoples' trust. Just as long as there is someone PAP dislike to be EP I think half the battle is won already.

Old fart will not be around in the next EP or GE, or even he is around he is just as good as deaf, blind or mute. So might as well put someone that will kick PAP arse for the next 5 years and re-assess the situation again.

Bro, believe me, I get you where your concerns on having a checker and cpf, etc are concerned.

What I'm trying to understand is why some think that the relationship between pap government and TKL will be an antagonistic one and that TKL will be constantly fighting for the peoples' rights, whereas TCB and TT will not?

Or as bro Windsor points out, the president's powers are limited anyway. Even if the relationship between TKL and pap government was antagonistic, would this be better for ordinary Singaporeans than if TCB or TT was the president?

 

[Unrepented]

You think like casino gambling. Just buy opposite.

Just as long as there is someone PAP dislike to be EP I think half the battle is won already.

 

[Windsor]

windsor,

can an oppo EP deny Old fart a grand state funeral since old fart is now a MP status only. Ep can watch how gahment is to spend tax payers money on unneccesary spending of state coffer.

Can he deny it? Good question bro.

I am not sure about you, but my perception of where LKY stands with Singaporeans is this.

Despite everything he has done, there will be a majority of us who will not deny him a state funeral. With LHL as the PM and the army of MIW, together with Singaporeans that has an affection for LKY, anyone who oppose it will be dead meat.

Put up a poll if you wish, but I believe I am right. Scroobal, what say you?

 

[jw5]

Yes, that's why I asked you what if the pap government under the new and improved pink shirted one, decide to be very respectful and deferent to the potential newly elected president TKL?

Why do you and others assume he will go headon against them?
If the relationship is antagonistic, yeah, sure, there will be sparks which will be fun to watch. Much more than with TT, who would almost certainly go along with a group of people he has been associated with for more than 20 years, and it will be very boring.

 

[Windsor]

Make amendment to it, constitution is man made and can bend to suit the current situation.

Exactly, amendments need to be done to the constitution. However, the process is long and tedious plus it must be tabled in Parliament. The EP alone and even with all oposition MP's agreeing, I can guarantee you nothing will happen. It must have the approval of the MIW before this can ever happen.

As I had stated, don't have any illusions that TKL as EP can wave a magic wand and make any changes. LKY and his merry men has covered all the loopholes after what had happened before and after OTC was the EP.

 

[glockman]

You have lionised TKL by saying he has been a thorn in the side of the PAP (see highlighted phrase).

Please explain to us in what way has he been a thorn in the side of the PAP? Has he been an obstacle or a nuisance to the PAP? Did he persuade or swayed certain unjust decisions that were detrimental to the populace in the past? Please elaborate and provide instances as to my knowledge TKL has achieve zilch apart from the mini-bonds saga.

Likewise please provide instances where he had spoken against the gahmen in the past, or was your statement wishful thinking that is what he will do as our EP?

Thirdly, you have characterised TKL as a person who has tenacity and determination. Perhaps you can provide examples when he has shown how tenacious and determined he was? Without any substantiation, we are unable to gauge the measure of the man, whom you have elevated to be larger than life.

You have impressed upon us that this man deserved to be our EP. Making general statements that he did this and that and what makes him so wonderful is your personal opinion about him. You need to do better than that as opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.

Yep, everyone has an asshole (very clever deduction of yours), and each is entitled to his/her opinion. What we are all doing is crystal ball gazing, based on precedence and what we read or know about what those three incumbents have done. We extrapolate from there and hope the person performs as anticipated. The supposedly "good things" that TT and TCB will do as president is also wishing thinking (in the same vein that you mentioned my statement was wishing thinking).

I refer you back to my statement : TKL is not in an advantaged position in this EP race. He's up against a previously PAP-linked giant. And a disgruntled ex-PAP. Both have huge support bases, having cultivated support in their many years of party service. In the front line and in the lime light. For TKL, he does not have that opportunity, save for the mini-bond episode. And yet, you persist in asking me for examples and substantiation. What he has done was in his personal capacity as a private citizen, and gleamed through conversations that some had with him, as well as read from his blogs.

So, tell me. Why do you think TT or TCB will make a good EP? In the end, the power of the EP is very limited anyway. Regardless of which one gets to be EP, life will go on as usual. Just that with TKL, I hope to see a little more abrasion! Get it?

 

[jw5]

So, tell me. Why do you think TT or TCB will make a good EP? In the end, the power of the EP is very limited anyway. Regardless of which one gets to be EP, life will go on as usual. Just that with TKL, I hope to see a little more abrasion! Get it?

May I answer this question which u directed at Windsor?
I don't know if TT or TCB will make a good EP, but my reasons for putting them ahead of TKL are in post #19 in this thread.

Can I ask you what makes u think there will be more abrasion with TKL? Did it occur to you that the pappies may decide to treat him with respect and deference to avoid that?

 

[glockman]

May I answer this question which u directed at Windsor?
I don't know if TT or TCB will make a good EP, but my reasons for putting them ahead of TKL are in post #19 in this thread.

Can I ask you what makes u think there will be more abrasion with TKL? Did it occur to you that the pappies may decide to treat him with respect and deference to avoid that?

Well as mentioned, I hope to see a little more abrasion. There may or may not be any. If gahmen treats him well, and assuming his zeal to fight for the common man is still there, then he will have more leverage. To my mind, I just can't picture TT going against his former political masters. TCB, maybe he will. TKL, most likely. Again, these are all just guesses. So, my preference is TKL, TCB, TT.