God is always with Leongsam.
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The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it
- Thread starter PTADER
- Start date
God is always with Leongsam.
Emailed him last night. His rank is still quite junior there so must wait awhile longer. He sends his regards to all in this forum.
Absolutely agree and I am with you on this. Leongsam will never understand. He is still single and a virgin.
Her fight with MID will benefit all NSman.
Yes. It will also pave the way for others who suffered losses in the past. This present case is only a tip of the ice berg.
Yup, the only differences are they type of punishment that can be meted out and who does the charging which is based on the rank of the accused.
Yup it will and in fact it already has to a certain extent. But there should be more to come.
The chap was training in a building for FIBUA in Murai. It was not in the open. The smoke "in the open" coming from the smoke grenades thrown just outside the building "dissipated" into the room he entered in the concentration it did because 3 times the number permitted were thrown. None thrown, no smoke, no risk. Less thrown, less smoke, less risk. More thrown, more smoke, more risk.
Have someone blow some cigarette smoke from one cigarette into your face in an enclosed space. Then try with 2, 10 and progressively more cigarettes. Once you start choking, don't stop but get more smoke from more cigarettes blown into your small enclosure.
That should help with your understanding.
I wasn't born yesterday. I've done FIBUA training. There isn't a single enclosed room anywhere.
If the concentration was so high to the point of being harmful to health the whole platoon would have been affected not just one soldier.
He died because he tried to hide his asthma condition. If he had been truthful and honest he's still be around today.
Who said anything about "enclosed rooms"??? I suggested that you carry out an experiment in an "enclosed space" with cigarettes. If you want to do it in a room with doors and windows, that's okay. But don't use little cigarettes then. Use smoke grenades.
Ministerial Statement (to Parliament) on National Service Training Deaths
Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen, 14 November 2012
...The COI found that the number of smoke grenades used in the exercise exceeded the limit specified in training safety regulations. The Training Safety Regulations, or TSR, stipulate that the minimum distance between each thrown smoke grenade should be not less than 20m and that the minimum distance between troops and the thrown smoke grenade should not be less than 10m. Based on the exercise layout, not more than two smoke grenades should have been used, but the Platoon Commander had thrown six grenades instead. The COI opined that "if the TSR had been complied with, PTE Lee and his platoon mates would not have been subjected to smoke that was as dense as that during the incident, and... for as long as they were during the incident" and that "reduced exposure to smoke would have reduced the risks of any adverse reactions to the smoke." The COI concluded that "the cause of death of PTE Lee resulted from inhalation of the fumes from the smoke grenades used in the incident".
Ministerial Statement (to Parliament) on National Service Training Deaths
Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen, 14 November 2012
"PTE Lee's pre-enlistment medical screening records revealed that he had a history of asthma."
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i am not sure if he is hiding his medical condition.. or he doesn't know he has this allergy of zinc chloride.. he only knows he has asthma. The army will not do a thorough test on him to check what he is allergic in.
i don't think the parents will know he is allergic to Zinc chloride.. A civilian life has not much opportunity to be exposed to Zinc Chloride.
He did not know and neither did MINDEF. That's why the death was nothing more than an unfortunate accident not a negligent or criminal act.
The parents should simply accept the fact and move on instead of trying lay blame and seek astronomical compensation.
Yes. SAF should pay the weregild and be done with it. A common man of his station 60k should be more than sufficient. That is why we have the White Horse classification after all.
If the officers had followed the safety regulations and only throw 2 smoke grenades, the concentration of the gas would've been 3 times less thus reducing the risk of death substantially, and the boy could still be alive and recovering in hospital. The key thing is the officers had knowingly broken the safety regulations that led to a death and that's negligent, no excuse for that.
Ministerial Statement (to Parliament) on National Service Training Deaths
Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen, 14 November 2012
"...The COI is of the opinion that the actions of the Platoon Commander, a Regular Captain, were negligent as he was aware of the specific TSR but did not comply with it.
These two deaths could have been avoided if safety instructions had been followed..." [The "two" refers to the "jeep death" of another soldier a month later].
Honestly that is a load of bull. The BOI committee is simply trying to cover their backsides.
The soldier was allergic to smoke grenades so 2 could have killed him just as efficiently.
Shouldn't the officers have asked if anyone is allergic to smoke from grenades ?
Like before an exercise, shouldn't the officers ask if anyone is not feeling well and cannot take part?
Why don't you propose a list of questions which OCs need to ask a recruit before the soldier wipes his arse after taking a dump????
Damned sinkies are getting more and more kiasu by the day.
Ministerial Statement (to Parliament) on National Service Training Deaths
Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen, 14 November 2012
"...They are also used by other militaries and agencies such as the United States and the Republic of Korea militaries because in acceptable concentrations of exposure, these smoke grenades are safe. Lung injury following exposure to zinc chloride fumes, and even deaths, have been reported in international literature but the numbers are few and mainly occur after exposure to high concentrations of zinc chloride fumes..."
Why don't you propose a list of questions which OCs need to ask a recruit before the soldier wipes his arse after taking a dump????
Damned sinkies are getting more and more kiasu by the day.
It is SOP ,no ?
What if the soldier dies during training because he is sick and is not fit to handle the rigors of training ?
