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The politics thread :)

Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Not just India foreign workers, so many India PMET - ah neh families with stroller type - are there too. Come to think of it, now that there are so many ah neh and Pinoys working in retail shops, actually there is no need to close the shops for CNY anymore, just business as usual will do lah!

Tis one i take issue with. Many jobs which sporeans are qualified were taken by those EP/S-Pass! Am i suppose to believe again and again silly excuses fm companies and garment tat Sporeans are choosy? If HR managers are Foreigners, pray tell me which nationalites would be their 1st choice to recruit?
 
Hi sis ginfreely,
He probably do not realise and forsee that foreigners will not only be swamping into healthcare but also at all levels in every sector of our economy to the stage where locals either accept the same pathetic pay which could not even cover their basic increasing cost of living or have to move to some cheaper country just to survive. The full scale damage will only be obvious in maybe 10yrs' time or more if we don't do anything about it now. Many people esp the better off locals and the foreigners here underestimate the seriousness of this issue as they are the only ones benefitting from these policies while the rest of us have to bear the brunt and make sacrifices just for those people.

At least in Malaysia, the BN although do have many unfair racial policies and face many corruption accusations, they do not try to wipe out their own people from their country and in fact most of their minorities are also enjoying the same or even higher much standard of living than the bumis the govt try to protect
Anyway, GONG XI FA CHAI to everyone here !!!
Snake year Huaaat Arrrrr !!!

Yeah you're spot on about the foreigners being let in not just in healthcare but every industry and at every level nowadays. We are like sitting ducks and can't do anything to stop them and this white paper means even more are coming.

For healthcare, this is a topic close to my heart. It used to be just nurses last time but now at every level from recept to nurse to doctor to radiographer to pharmacist. The irony is I used to find foreign nurses very warm, helpful and experienced two decades ago when my family member was warded for a long period of time in hospital. But my recent years experience with foreigners in healthcare have me concluded they lack both attitude and aptitude.

I think due to too many foreigners being let in nowadays, there is no or not enough control to ensure only highly qualified, experienced and caring foreigner healthcare professionals are brought in. If not, how to explain the recent year cases of India doctors who are molestor, Msia doctor who exposed himself to student, and foreign nurses who abuse elderly patients in nursing home?

My own personal experience is India doctor in polyclinic who talked on the phone for a long time while attending halfway to patient - totally unprofessional - and ER foreign doctor who can't insert Iv tube properly, etc.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

PAP goes all out for GDP growth at all cost. To tell you frankly how I think, I would rather not have this kind of growth.. The job creation seemed to benefit foreigners more than locals.. The GDP growth seemed to benefit 5% of elite populations rather than the majority.

Foreigners love Singapore govt.. However how many of them would really want Singapore citizenship?

Me too, what economic growth is it when I am pushed out of my own country and can't afford $100k COE? The job creation, the infrastructure, everything is for the benefit of foreigners, PAP whose salaries are tied to GDP and the rich who are allowed to exploit low salaries to maximise profit.
 
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Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Ladies n gentlemen, now ch 8 is showing "borders" featuring our msians daily lives coming to red dot n earn their living. :)

Some declare they r half "singkie". When reached their jb home, they wld watch ch8 n 5. Praise n tks MIW sky high....

Praise SG sky high but all remain as msians..
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Tis one i take issue with. Many jobs which sporeans are qualified were taken by those EP/S-Pass! Am i suppose to believe again and again silly excuses fm companies and garment tat Sporeans are choosy? If HR managers are Foreigners, pray tell me which nationalites would be their 1st choice to recruit?

True the foreigner PMETs are the real issue, they need not be here but are here. However, large numbers of foreign workers is also an issue, true they are here to build infrastructure, do service jobs etc but why are there so many if not for the fact that we are building infrastructure, need services to accommodate the large foreigner population? I think it is a vicious cycle that should be stopped.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

I wondered if We praised the BN sky high, how will they react?

Some declare they r half "singkie". When reached their jb home, they wld watch ch8 n 5. Praise n tks MIW sky high....
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

True the foreigner PMETs are the real issue, they need not be here but are here. However, large numbers of foreign workers is also an issue, true they are here to build infrastructure, do service jobs etc but why are there so many if not for the fact that we are building infrastructure, need services to accommodate the large foreigner population? I think it is a vicious cycle that should be stopped.

Talk abt foreign WP workers, i am really concern over any "imported" illness fm them eg TB, Dengue etc

Come 2030, can u imagine how it will be like in SinkieLand....

http://www.livescience.com/27052-tuberculosis-tb-incurable-antibiotics.html
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

I wondered if We praised the BN sky high, how will they react?

Actually BN not so bad lah. They have Gerakan, MCA, MIC and UMNO..each taking care of their own respective race. BN oso built low cost houses for the rakyat. Quota for foreigner in the interest of the rakyat. They even allow rakyat to voice their discontentment in public area. Medical only $1.00. Oil oso subsidize etc etc. If...if only BN can give PR status to Sporean like me easily....
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Actually, I agreed with you on that. He is quite capability of bringing in vast investments but his personal life ....
People that I met, including my JB relatives hated him like hell.

BTW, come across this. Hope there is live telecast on the rally.

--
More than 3,000 will be going to Hong Lim to support rally
February 13th, 2013 | Author: Editorial
What started out as a modest event to protest against the projections in the Population White Paper has now snowballed into a people’s movement.

Mr Gilbert Goh, President of Transitioning.org and organizer of the event, was initially expecting not more than 200 people to attend the protest rally – ‘Say NO to 6.9 million population’, which will be held at Hong Lim Park Speakers’ Corner on 16 Feb (Sat) at 4pm. Hong Lim Park Speakers’ Corner is, of course, the designated place for legal public protests to be held at.

The latest count on the event’s Facebook page, ‘Protest against 6.9 million population by 2030‘, now showed that 3,070 people saying they will be attending the protest event and another 1,489 saying they may attend (as of 5:30pm,13 Feb). Mr Goh also confirmed that international presses like AP, CNN, Bloomberg, Reuters, Yahoo! and Australian Broadcasting Corporation will be at Hong Lim to cover the event.

Under the White Paper projections, Singapore population will potentially reach 6 million by 2020 and 6.9 million by 2030. Between now till 2030, another million more foreign workers are expected to be imported into Singapore. Singaporeans are generally incensed that the White Paper was quickly endorsed by the PAP-dominated Parliament without much say by the citizens.

On the last day of the Parliamentary debate, sensing the immense displeasure expressed by Singaporeans, PM Lee then said that the Singapore population by 2030 will be “significantly below 6.9 million”. However, he still maintained that Singapore will need at least 6 million. He said, “In my view, by 2030, 6 million will not be enough to meet Singaporeans’ needs as our population ages.”

Mr Goh said, “We want to show the government that there is a consolidated voice against its population growth policy. We want them to hear us… We can’t take this lying down!”

12 speakers have confirmed to speak after going through twenty over people who wanted to speak on that day. They include politicians as well as ordinary Singaporeans, who simply want their voices to be heard:

Mr Lee Kah Jing – acturist
Mr Cradius Tan – medical technolist
Ms Samantha Chia – event co-ordinator
Mr Nizam Ismail – lawyer
Ms Sem Teo – banking executive
Mr Kumaran Pillay – businessman
Mr Leong Sze Hian – financial service professional
Mr Tan Kin Lian – ex-Presidential candidate in 2011 PE
Mr Tan Jee Say – ex-Presidential candidate in 2011 PE
Mr Vincent Wijey – SDP politician
Mr Ravi Philemon – NSP politician
Ms Jeannette Chong – NSP politician
Each will speak for 10 mins.

Mr Goh said that the politicians will be speaking in their own personal capacity as a Singaporean rather than a politician so as not to make the event look like a political rally. He said, “Hopefully, the event can unite Singaporeans together as one powerful voice in peaceful protest against the population white paper.”

Ms Oniatta Effendi, a Suria Malay artiste, will also be singing on that day and, according to Mr Goh, the event promises to be “an occasion whereby nationalistic emotions will be stirred as we try to encourage frustrated Singaporeans to fall in love with their country again”.

Largest post-independence public protest in Singapore?

The protest event on 16th Feb (Sat) at Hong Lim may very well turn out to be the largest post-independence public protest in Singapore if the 3,000+ people who said they will be attending, turn up.

The last large public protest was the Minibond protest held in Oct 2008, when angry investors protested about the way banks sold them the toxic financial products and demanded compensation. Reuters reported a figure of 600 [Link] who turned up at the protest held in Hong Lim while TOC reported a figure of more than 1,000 [Link].

Mr Goh said, “I hope that Singaporeans will turn out in full force to protest peacefully against the damaging anti-Singapore population white paper.”

Mr Goh even suggested that protesters draw their own placards and banners and “wave them around so that your voice will be heard loud and clear”.

A lady, Ms Mee Lee, has also volunteered to paint the “6.9 million logo” on the faces of children and adults and she has generously consented to donate all the proceeds to offset the cost of organizing the event.

Another Singaporean has confirmed with Mr Goh that he will be donating 25 cases of bottled water for the event.

Mr Goh also hoped to set up livestreaming for the event so that Singaporeans, who are not attending, can watch from home.

According to the programme of the event, there will be a saying of the pledge and singing of the national anthem towards the end of the event.

Will you be at Hong Lim Park on 16 Feb? Be there or be square!

--
Actually BN not so bad lah. They have Gerakan, MCA, MIC and UMNO..each taking care of their own respective race. BN oso built low cost houses for the rakyat. Quota for foreigner in the interest of the rakyat. They even allow rakyat to voice their discontentment in public area. Medical only $1.00. Oil oso subsidize etc etc. If...if only BN can give PR status to Sporean like me easily....
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Actually BN not so bad lah. They have Gerakan, MCA, MIC and UMNO..each taking care of their own respective race. BN oso built low cost houses for the rakyat. Quota for foreigner in the interest of the rakyat. They even allow rakyat to voice their discontentment in public area. Medical only $1.00. Oil oso subsidize etc etc. If...if only BN can give PR status to Sporean like me easily....

Sorry whoami I am going to offer another viewpoint to your points raised:

1) Umno is the taikor in BN, they have the biggest influence and all the rest of the BN components kowtow to UMNO. We Msian Chinese consider MCA and Gerakan as UMNO lapdogs. e.g. Umno politicians run down others, MCA keep quiet. PAS makes some statement only, MCA will keep accusing DAP of not keeping PAS in check. If MIC were so effective, why did the Hindraf protests came about previously? In name, yeah BN component parties were supposed to represent the races in Msia but they are in the eyes of the minority races, ineffective and UMNO lapdogs.

2) BN build low cost houses for rakyat - This imho is a basic responsibility of an elected govt, ensure the well to do are taxed more and redistributed to the less well off. Imho, the elected govt should focus more on building affordable housing as developers will cater to where the profits are. i.e. govt focus on taking care of the less well off while private sector entities focus on those with money. Dont raise foreigner limit just becos there isnt enough affordable housing. This is an indication of govt failure to cater/build affordable housing.

3) The rakyat had to go thru a number of BERSIH rallies, anti-lynas demonstrations cos we are sick and tired of BN's bullying. That caused Najib to repeal ISA and other restrictive laws and to introduce the Public Assembly Law to allow for protests within defined rules. This didnt came about because the govt became enlightened.

Like how ginfreely mentioned it is easy for Msians (esp Msian Chinese) to praise Singapore, I see the same thing coming from you about BN in Msia too ;)

I dont blame you for having your viewpoints above, but I see a need to point out how Msian Chinese would view your statements.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

I think the point is that the Malaysian has been unpopular with many of their citizens since day one but the Singapore govt took the turn for the worse only a few years ago. If continue this way, soon many Singaporeans will be much worse off than their neighbours.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

It cant be denied that the better paying jobs are still in SG compared to Malaysia, though Singapore has taken a turn for the worse over the last 10 years under Dragon's leadership. Malaysia's corruption, crime rates, and government's executional skills remain big issues for the citizens there.

The grass is always greener on the other side. In fact, many Malaysian Chinese envy our Govt a lot for our low crime rates, better economy & MRT lines. That said, overcrowding, transport, housing, healthcare, foreigner issue are big concerns in Singapore, and the present Cabinet appears incapable of solving them. If this Govt was transported back to 1965 to solve the issues then, I think Singapore would have all but degenerated into chaos....
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

a ruler with the units measurement in cents and dollars. titter.gif
 
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Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Ladies n gentlemen, now ch 8 is showing "borders" featuring our msians daily lives coming to red dot n earn their living. :)

Some declare they r half "singkie". When reached their jb home, they wld watch ch8 n 5. Praise n tks MIW sky high....

You are wrong. Astro channel more actractive than sdarhob n meow tv. Wah lai tai is rock.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Another good article that I would like to share ....

S Korea – they grow economy thru innovation & productivity
February 14th, 2013 | Author: Contributions
Due to low fertility rate of 1.2 and a generation of baby boomers born around 1960s, the S. Korean society is one of the fastest ageing in the world. So far the S. Korean govt has not resorted to massive immigration and opening the floodgates to cheaper foreign labor. Businesses without access to cheap foreign labor have to increase productivity by investing in automation, improving its businesses processes and innovation.


Despite mounting pressure from businesses demanding cheap foreign labor from Philippines, China and India, the S. Korean leaders did not succumb to pressure to implement pro-business policies to allow businesses to import cheap labor to boost their profits. The S. Korean economy did not sink from the lack of labor force growth instead flourished with improvements in labor productivity and the innovation of home grown industries.

We sometimes forget that S. Korea is a relatively small country with a population of 50M given its cultural influence and industrial giants like Samsung. The policy choices made by S. Korea are hardly unique. Smaller countries like Finland and Denmark (5.5m population) with ageing population chose to focus on maximizing the talents of their indigenous population and growth through productivity.

The PAP claims we need to import foreigners to care for old (support ratio argument). The aged in these countries are well taken care of without the need for massive import of people. Did our massive import of people in the last decade help to secure a comfortable life for our elderly? No, many of our old folks are working at an age when they should be retired and struggling with poor health because there is little help for them from the state.

The White Paper “projects” a 45% foreigner population and this % is higher if you count foreigners converted to citizens – the people born and raised in Singapore will probably drop to below 50%.

To see how extreme the PAP policies have been and will continue to be with the White Paper, we take a look at S. Korea’s plan for 2030:

“With one of the world’s fastest-aging populations, South Korea has gone from a country where labor was the only abundant resource to one seeking staff to help run the plants and farms of Asia’s fourth-largest economy. While neighboring Japan has largely rejected imported labor as a solution to its aging workforce, South Korea is beginning to accept it. Immigrants have risen sevenfold since 2000, to 2.8 percent of the population, and could make up more than 6 percent by 2030, the government said.” Bloomberg Report [Link]


World class innovations from S. Korea
Yes, a dynamic vibrant world beating S. Korean economy that presently has 2.8% foreigners will increase it to 6% by 2030. By keep its labor force tight, and not yielding to pressure from businesses for cheap foreign labor, S. Korea had been able to build on its its first economic miracle to create a 2nd carried by the cultural creativity of Gangnam Style and technological innovation in Samsung’s Note II.

Singaporeans today are told there is no alternative but to continue with with old policies of growth by importing labor. Our business lobbies, the various chambers of commerce, echo the threats of businesses to leave or close down unless they are given access to foreign labor – the last 15 years of pro-business policy of opening the floodgates to foreign labor has made our businesses more dependent on foreign labor. Unless we take bold steps to break out of this vicious cycle now, the damage we bring to ourselves will be irreparable.

.

Lucky Tan

* Lucky Tan is an avid online blogger since 2005. He likes to study the thoughts of Singapore leaders and the laws of Singapore. He blogs at http://singaporemind.blogspot.com.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

Another good article that I would like to share ....

S Korea – they grow economy thru innovation & productivity
February 14th, 2013 | Author: Contributions
Due to low fertility rate of 1.2 and a generation of baby boomers born around 1960s, the S. Korean society is one of the fastest ageing in the world. So far the S. Korean govt has not resorted to massive immigration and opening the floodgates to cheaper foreign labor. Businesses without access to cheap foreign labor have to increase productivity by investing in automation, improving its businesses processes and innovation.


Despite mounting pressure from businesses demanding cheap foreign labor from Philippines, China and India, the S. Korean leaders did not succumb to pressure to implement pro-business policies to allow businesses to import cheap labor to boost their profits. The S. Korean economy did not sink from the lack of labor force growth instead flourished with improvements in labor productivity and the innovation of home grown industries.

We sometimes forget that S. Korea is a relatively small country with a population of 50M given its cultural influence and industrial giants like Samsung. The policy choices made by S. Korea are hardly unique. Smaller countries like Finland and Denmark (5.5m population) with ageing population chose to focus on maximizing the talents of their indigenous population and growth through productivity.

The PAP claims we need to import foreigners to care for old (support ratio argument). The aged in these countries are well taken care of without the need for massive import of people. Did our massive import of people in the last decade help to secure a comfortable life for our elderly? No, many of our old folks are working at an age when they should be retired and struggling with poor health because there is little help for them from the state.

The White Paper “projects” a 45% foreigner population and this % is higher if you count foreigners converted to citizens – the people born and raised in Singapore will probably drop to below 50%.

To see how extreme the PAP policies have been and will continue to be with the White Paper, we take a look at S. Korea’s plan for 2030:

“With one of the world’s fastest-aging populations, South Korea has gone from a country where labor was the only abundant resource to one seeking staff to help run the plants and farms of Asia’s fourth-largest economy. While neighboring Japan has largely rejected imported labor as a solution to its aging workforce, South Korea is beginning to accept it. Immigrants have risen sevenfold since 2000, to 2.8 percent of the population, and could make up more than 6 percent by 2030, the government said.” Bloomberg Report [Link]


World class innovations from S. Korea
Yes, a dynamic vibrant world beating S. Korean economy that presently has 2.8% foreigners will increase it to 6% by 2030. By keep its labor force tight, and not yielding to pressure from businesses for cheap foreign labor, S. Korea had been able to build on its its first economic miracle to create a 2nd carried by the cultural creativity of Gangnam Style and technological innovation in Samsung’s Note II.

Singaporeans today are told there is no alternative but to continue with with old policies of growth by importing labor. Our business lobbies, the various chambers of commerce, echo the threats of businesses to leave or close down unless they are given access to foreign labor – the last 15 years of pro-business policy of opening the floodgates to foreign labor has made our businesses more dependent on foreign labor. Unless we take bold steps to break out of this vicious cycle now, the damage we bring to ourselves will be irreparable.

.

Lucky Tan

* Lucky Tan is an avid online blogger since 2005. He likes to study the thoughts of Singapore leaders and the laws of Singapore. He blogs at http://singaporemind.blogspot.com.

South Korea is a very stressful society, much more than Singapore with the current and projected number of immigrants.
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

It cant be denied that the better paying jobs are still in SG compared to Malaysia, though Singapore has taken a turn for the worse over the last 10 years under Dragon's leadership. Malaysia's corruption, crime rates, and government's executional skills remain big issues for the citizens there.

The grass is always greener on the other side. In fact, many Malaysian Chinese envy our Govt a lot for our low crime rates, better economy & MRT lines. That said, overcrowding, transport, housing, healthcare, foreigner issue are big concerns in Singapore, and the present Cabinet appears incapable of solving them. If this Govt was transported back to 1965 to solve the issues then, I think Singapore would have all but degenerated into chaos....

Er no one denies that Msia's corruption and crime rate are big issues, but what does it say about SG when so many Singaporeans are now flocking to JB despite these issues?
 
Re: Singapore plans rare protest as population debate rages

................
3) The rakyat had to go thru a number of BERSIH rallies, anti-lynas demonstrations cos we are sick and tired of BN's bullying. That caused Najib to repeal ISA and other restrictive laws and to introduce the Public Assembly Law to allow for protests within defined rules. This didnt came about because the govt became enlightened.

Like how ginfreely mentioned it is easy for Msians (esp Msian Chinese) to praise Singapore, I see the same thing coming from you about BN in Msia too ;)

I dont blame you for having your viewpoints above, but I see a need to point out how Msian Chinese would view your statements.

Different leh, whoami and family converting to Msians, so it is okay for him to praise BN sky high..actually he only said BN not bad - not sky high - provide the basics like you say about affordable housing and medical, precisely these basics are what PAP is lacking and Singaporeans got to ci kei bo chong..

Btw just curious how Msians managed to execute these protests when still having ISA? Didn't the Msian intelligence or police capture these protestors under ISA?
 
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