Thais Demonstrat a brand new form of Political Movement

[cleareyes]

You may call it any name, but it is unlike anything else that we had ever seen.

It is the most effective ever disruption to an unwanted regime without a military coupe.

unwanted by who?

the general population vote for thaksin and his party and now the minorty try to pull him down, so telkl me, who is the one not respecting the princples of democracy, thaksin or PAD?

 

[scroobal]

Yeah and pigs shall fly

Most foreigners can't get the equation right. Its rather complex, because the permutations are many but as you correctly pointed it is still is the King/Prem factor.

The common man's vote is still being trampled by the elites. Old man should learn from Prem and guess what, Yap will be none the wiser.

 

[Ramseth]

The UK is a constitutional monarhy. Thailand is also a constitutional monarchy. However, the constitutional monarchy in Thailand is not like what one'd expect in the UK. In the UK, Parliament is supreme. The Monarch in Parliament reigns and exercises royal prerogatives through the Prime Minister who must have support of Parliament.

In Thailand, the armed forces don't answer to the Defence Minister or even the Prime Minister. They can exercise powers in the name of the Monarch too, just as Parliament exercise powers in the name of the Monarch. The Thai armed forces can declare war on a foreign state without going through the government, and can also refuse to act on a declaration of war if the generals are not satifsfied that the government has made the right call. The army's loyalty is to the King and it's duty is to keep the borders intact and the system functioning within the borders.

Singaporeans accustomed to our Westminister-derived system may wonder, how can the Thai armed forces do that to the government? Don't they rely on the government for their appointments, salaries, promotions and budgets? The answer is that they don't.

Imagine the CCP and the KMT in China before 1949. Both sides were supposedly political parties, but fighting with bullets instead of ballots. The difference with Thailand here was that, both sides in China then were armed.

In Thailand, the armed forces didn't become a political party, but retained certain political and discretionary powers. The elected Parliament represents the Monarch through election. The armed forces represent the Monarch through residual convention, backed by some real financial muscles of course. It's common knowledge that Thai army and police chiefs have stakes in many businesses, just like many businesses in China are still owned and controlled by the PLA.

The PLA pledges allegiance to the CCP and the PRC, which are one the same. No problem there, nothing to coup about. However, the Thai military pledges allegiance to the Thai King, as distinct from the Thai Parliament. As long as civilian political winds blow their way, favourably and tolerably, life goes on.

What caused the 2006 coup was that most military leaders came to a point to decide that Thaksin's methods and policies had become intolerably threatening.

Look at it this way. In conventional academic terms of the separation of power among organs of state, there're the exceutive, the legislature and the judiciary. In Thailand, there're the executive, the legislature, the judiciary and the army. Whatever the army do, as long as the King doesn't publicly object or condemn, it's deemed to be in the name of the King, and therefore legitimate.

 

[Ramseth]

Sorry for being long-winded. Tried to be as concise as possible. Point is, Singaporeans just opening their political eyes may see this as something new. Wow! A brand new form of political movement in Thailand! Be in Thailand long enough, and one'd know it's nothing new. A tradition in fact. And in fact, many are getting tired of this tradition. Now, that's something new. Let's see how it unwinds.

 

[silverfox@]

General Prem and the King appear to have alot to answer for with regards the present political impasse in Thailand.

The King says he doesn't want to be involved in the politics. But he endorses the coup. What does this say?

In thailand, you cannot say anything bad about the King, if not its considered treason. The King in thailand is like God to the people.
It becomes like when you go to a church, everyone worships their God
When go to a mosque, everyone worships their God
When go to a temple, everyone worships their God too.

Will any of these worshippers say anything bad about their God? No.

In thailand, they are considering banning all foreign websites which says any single bad thing about their King. This is to preserve their monarchy's image.

Right or wrong, I don't know.
I only know that God don't and wouldn't die.
Before you think he is God, he is actually just a human. Like you and me
Humans do err. :o

 

[uncleyap]

It is clear that you have never lived in Thailand for a considerable period of time both pre Thaksin, Thaksin and post Thaksin eras.

Which Thais are now paying the real heavy price? And prior to Thaksin's rule did the thai elites truly help the majority thai peasants?

Thais "smarter than Singaporeans", don't make me laugh. More like the thai elites and bangkok middle classes not forgetting the king and army elites being selfish and only interested in looking after their own interests.

It is very cheap deal for Thug-Sin to give some honey to rural peasants in exchange for the political supports which he needed to EXPLOIT HUGE LUCRATIVE INTEREST once he secured his political position.

His filthy deal with Temasek in his Shin Corp is already the proven and doubtless one, his tax evasion & his recent conviction regarding his wife's piece of lucrative prime land in Rachada district is another. The TRT election frauds which led to the party being disbanded is yet another proven case.

The interest Thug-Sin & cronies can milk with political powers which they bought from simple rural peasants are HUGE compared against the tiny prices they paid with Tax Payer's funds to give some honey to the simple rural peasants.

You can claim those fighting Thug-Sin were his business competitors, what ever you say. They are right to stop Thug-Sin because he used political power to do business in corrupted way, just like fucking CB famiLEE LEEgime here. They are absolutely smarter than Singaporeans to have decided to stop Thug-Sin before he became Shinawatra-LEEgime, before TRT party became PAp, before Thug-Sin became old dog thief, before Thug-Sin's wife became Ho Jinx, before Shin-Corp became Temasek, before Thai king became Prata, before Thai Court became Kangaroo, before Thai media became 162th, before Thai citizens became slaves serving the Thug-Sin & cronies like Singaporean slaves.

When these happened, Thug-Sin would had become too difficult and too costly to be removed, and the prices in long term paid by Thais will be much much much higher than what they are now paying to stop the greedy selfish bastards.

I congratulate the Thais for stopping Thug-Sin!

 

[tun_dr_m]

unwanted by who?

the general population vote for thaksin and his party and now the minorty try to pull him down, so telkl me, who is the one not respecting the princples of democracy, thaksin or PAD?

I for one will not blindly adopt what is called principles of democracy.

Western poison that had been causing too much myths.

LKY is bad and fucked up but not exactly due to the un-democratic symptoms exhibited.

Many governments and so called democrats had regarded Chen Shui Bian as very democratic politician & Taiwan under him was regarded as highly democratic and transparent and accountable. But look at all the stinking corruption of Chen Shui Bian now discovered!

Democracy is good? Is a solution?

Don't get fooled!

Lack of democracy is even unnecessarily bad.

Democracy handed by ruler (free of condition & price) over to people could be still rejected strongly by people - look at the true example in Bhutan.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/23/MNFIVLCDS.DTL&type=politics

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christof-putzel/bhutan-lost-in-democracy_b_93170.html

http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/institutions/bhutan_s_unique_democracy_a_first_verdict

 

[tun_dr_m]

Perhaps, but how has this helped Thailand and more importantly the majority thai peasants?

I am not so sure about Thaksin helped peasants too. Singaporeans all used to appreciate Lee Kuan Yew like god thinking he helped. Now Singaporeans saw that he exploited more than he helped.

 

[tun_dr_m]

unwanted by who?

the general population vote for thaksin and his party and now the minorty try to pull him down, so telkl me, who is the one not respecting the princples of democracy, thaksin or PAD?

Thaksin & his party was obviously ordered by court to dissolve due to verdict on committing election frauds. I am not sure he really got voted or rigged it like PAP.

Democracy I am in lots of doubts about.

 

[silverfox@]

It is very cheap deal for Thug-Sin to give some honey to rural peasants in exchange for the political supports which he needed to EXPLOIT HUGE LUCRATIVE INTEREST once he secured his political position.

To start off with, the past Prime Ministers didn't even bothered to give honey to rural peasants. If not would there be a Prime Minister who is more iconic than Thaksin. :o

If you think its cheap deal, why didn't the past prime ministers tried helping the rural peasants at the very least? Or were they busy helping their own pockets not even leaving that bit for others?

 

[silverfox@]

Thaksin & his party was obviously ordered by court to dissolve due to verdict on committing election frauds. I am not sure he really got voted or rigged it like PAP.

Democracy I am in lots of doubts about.

You should check the amount of support Thaksin has in the rural north.

 

[tun_dr_m]

You should check the amount of support Thaksin has in the rural north.

Just only few days ago as shown in this thread these so called massive supporters of Thaksin gathered to await for a phone call from him from London, and what was the size?

Only about 60K!

Compared with 5 to 8 times more of anti-Thaksin pro-PAD crowds in hundreds of thousands.

So what are you talking about? Big support? These people won't show up!

 

[cleareyes]

Thaksin & his party was obviously ordered by court to dissolve due to verdict on committing election frauds. I am not sure he really got voted or rigged it like PAP.

Democracy I am in lots of doubts about.

With the political comfusion in thailand, i have doubts if there is really any evidence of vote rigging at all.

we for singapore, u have to prove that there is vote rigging and seriously, i m sure u have no evidence.

btw, hearsay dun count as evidence.

 

[cleareyes]

Just only few days ago as shown in this thread these so called massive supporters of Thaksin gathered to await for a phone call from him from London, and what was the size?

Only about 60K!

Compared with 5 to 8 times more of anti-Thaksin pro-PAD crowds in hundreds of thousands.

So what are you talking about? Big support? These people won't show up!

hundreds of thousands?

i dun think the figure for PAD demostration is more than 10k.

 

[scroobal]

The UK is a constitutional monarhy. Thailand is also a constitutional monarchy. However, the constitutional monarchy in Thailand is not like what one'd expect in the UK.

Good write-up.

 

[scroobal]

hundreds of thousands?

i dun think the figure for PAD demostration is more than 10k.

I don't think the chap understands which is the democratically elected side and which is not.

He also cannot understand how come after the first pad uprising, the coup followed by a martial rule for 1 years and the same lot got re-elected to the chagrin of the king.

It confused Uncle yap and this chap.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Longer version, read "The King Never Smiles" by Paul Handley. Banned in Thailand and author probably cannot enter Thailand for fear of arrest.

PS. Thaksin's latest speech from a UK phone booth appears to be quite interesting, perhaps he was sending an 'olive banana' to the King:p

Sorry for being long-winded. .

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I was quite amazed to read of the Queen attending the funeral of one of the PAD members who was recently killed in the violence.

However I also recently read somewhere that the Crown Prince was curiously somewhat critical of PAD and these comments were not carried in the Thai media.

Wayang siamese style.

The King says he doesn't want to be involved in the politics. But he endorses the coup. What does this say?

 

[yinyang]

Thailand cannot make the fundamental changes untyil and unless the monarchy, the army elites and biz elites/bangkok middle classes are prepared to relatively honestly and in goodfaith share power and fair equity with the majority thai peasants.

That in a nutshell, about sums it all up -given realities of big divide

Yeah and pigs shall fly. Again you are talking through your arse.Has the Philippines truly progressed and provided a reasonable standard of living for its majority peasants since Edsa I in 86'? All the Philippines has seen since the fall of Marcos 22 years ago is a change of power amongst the corrupt Filippino elites, with the Filippino majority peasants still getting shafted. Even after Edsa II and the fall of Estrada in 01' what has happened for the majority Filippino peasants? In the main, nothing still same old shit.

For the average joe (oops, pinoy version) life is still the dumps. Try getting past plastic fantastic of makati, and it's all very evident. Just to digress -in my books, on slums and safety there's no comparison with bkk. Also, a nation full of attorneys (solicitors). Even judiciary is bent:p

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

The fact that you continue and persist to play down the real good that Thaksin has done for the majority thai peasants (which was never done by politicians and the ruling elites before and after Thaksin) as vouched by the thai peasants themselves says alot about you Yap Keng Ho. At the end of the day, true real tangible benefits to the majority peasants is what counts and matters. Not your dubious self-righteous self inflated ego crap.

Btw you also conveniently ignore the fact that Thaksin was already a billionaire before he became PM. More importantly it has been over 2 years since the coup against Thakisn and his political enemies have yet to convict of any real substantial corruption charges, the latest court ruling against Thaksin is not for real substantial corruption only on ethics.

It is very cheap deal for Thug-Sin to give some honey to rural peasants in exchange for the political supports which he needed to EXPLOIT HUGE LUCRATIVE INTEREST once he secured his political position.

His filthy deal with Temasek in his Shin Corp is already the proven and doubtless one, his tax evasion & his recent conviction regarding his wife's piece of lucrative prime land in Rachada district is another. The TRT election frauds which led to the party being disbanded is yet another proven case.

And how has all this really and truly benefitted the majority thai peasants and the principles of democracy? Thaksin's political enemies are now doing the "milking" and worst still unlike Thaksin who at least really and truly helped the majority thai peasants, now the same are getting shafted once again. Btw this is no "claim", it is a fact. Wonder why the King threw a fit when Forbes recently ranked him as the richest monarch in the world?

Fact of the matter is that the Thais aren't smarter, it is just a political power game being played out by the King and the old traditional establishment at the expense of the majoriity thai peasants.

The interest Thug-Sin & cronies can milk with political powers which they bought from simple rural peasants are HUGE compared against the tiny prices they paid with Tax Payer's funds to give some honey to the simple rural peasants.

You can claim those fighting Thug-Sin were his business competitors, what ever you say. They are right to stop Thug-Sin because he used political power to do business in corrupted way, just like fucking CB famiLEE LEEgime here. They are absolutely smarter than Singaporeans to have decided to stop Thug-Sin before he became Shinawatra-LEEgime, before TRT party became PAp, before Thug-Sin became old dog thief, before Thug-Sin's wife became Ho Jinx, before Shin-Corp became Temasek, before Thai king became Prata, before Thai Court became Kangaroo, before Thai media became 162th, before Thai citizens became slaves serving the Thug-Sin & cronies like Singaporean slaves.

Again I ask who is really paying the price and pain for the self-interest and greed & power thirst of the King and the old traditional establishment?

It is clear that you, Yap keng Ho, do not really care for the plight of the majority thai peasants and more importantly nor for the plight of the ordinary Singaporean. All you care about is your dubious self-righteous self-inflated ego militant radicalism crap.

When these happened, Thug-Sin would had become too difficult and too costly to be removed, and the prices in long term paid by Thais will be much much much higher than what they are now paying to stop the greedy selfish bastards.

I congratulate the Thais for stopping Thug-Sin!