Tesla is the worst performing stock in the S&P 500. Analysts say it has further to fall

[glockman]

This doesn't accurately reflect how much money was made by the US. All that stuff resulted in full employment during the war and round the clock factories. All that is GDP. Discounted or "no cost" is a red-herring. The result was they had a strong economy while Europe was in shambles and had a leg up post war AND a cash stream to count on. It worked so well for them that they decided to engage in multiple wars after that. A far cry from the pre-war policy. Korea, Vietnam and the ME. With each one succeedingly being less profitable and more costly.

Bottom line no matter the minor details is that the US benefited from overseas involvement by numbers far exceeding their inputs with a few serious miscalculations. They didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts no matter how they sell it.

yes. dumbest act I've seen in my life from a "leader".

The result was they did improve the world, but make no mistake, what actually got them up in the morning was self-benefit. I don't mind. It was still a better place. Until an orange baboon and his legion of losers came along.

Yep, the US did it all to protect itself, shape geopolitics, and to ensure they remain the most powerful nation on earth. Heck, they'll even sanction assassinations on foreign land, but I have no objection when islamic terrorists are the target. Anyway when the net effect is peace and no war, yes all of us are ok with that.

Like I said before, we know the trump administration wants to steer itself away from being a global interventionist and from being the world's policeman (because it's costing them too much money aka less profitable like you mentioned), it can simply engage their allies in dialogue and aid in the transition. Don't need to be so arrogant, obnoxious and downright despicable. By doing so, they are showing up their behaviour and reinforcing the view that people who hate the US have held all along.

In my book, the canadians have always been the nicer North Americans. Except for the part they tend to be passive aggressive (as told to me by someone).

 

[Leongsam]

Not so glockie.

As it happens one of my prior areas of specialization is American industrialization. It's been quite a few years since I've touched the stuff so my numbers are a bit fuzzy, but I still remember the main points.

Prior to WW2, the US was a technological and cultural backwater. Something like 20-something in the worlds top powers. Maybe higher but definitely out of the top 10. To cut a long story short. Two major things happened before they entered ww2. One was Britain had to hand over every single technological and intellectual advance they had over the rest of the world. I forgot the name of the operation, but some guy had to fly over with all that info to hand to the Americans. Tech leap #2. The second was lend-lease.

Tech leap #1 was taking all those fleeing Jewish and non-Jewish scientists from Europe.

Sometime in the 00s, I remember reading that Britain finally made the last payment on the lend-lease act. That's right. The UK was paying the US for all the war materiel and whatnot supplied for ww2. Every single bullet that Britain fired was cash going from the British empire to the US. For half a century. Without signing this act, the US refused to enter ww2.

Tech leaps #3 and #4 came after the end of ww2. All the German scientists that escaped penalties were subsequently hired by the US. Even more egregious NONE of the Nip scientists who were responsible for warcrimes were ever sentenced. They all went to work for US concerns. For exmaple, Unit 713's scientists were all directly or indirectly under the protection and employ of US corps. If you've never heard of unit 713, be disgusted first for why they buried that info then be disgusted by what they did.

This is what led to the incredible wealth and upsurge of US influence post ww2. Prior to that, all international navigation had to speak French. Hence Mayday. They're still sore at it today...

That's also incorrect. Having dealt with the US government on more than one occasion, I can tell you that it is inefficient. i.e. they need a kick up the pants. Because everything takes too long.

But what Trump is doing is not giving a kick up the pants. He's lobotomizing them so he can run rampant and unchecked. Even more, all the things he's doing to the US government is literally handing the world to China and Russia on a silver platter. Those foreign aid agencies? That's how China doesn't even own more of the world than it does now. All the services and spending he's cutting? He's positioning the US and it's ex-Allies to not be able to withstand a Russian onslaught whether it's military or technological (cyberwarfare).

On a less onerous note, have you ever wondered why your computers run microsoft, apple and google? Yup, you guessed right. Those foreign "aid" payments. It's a very cheap cost for guaranteeing a world market for their movies, TV shows and software. All this additional money allows them to have additional US bases and diplomatic missions (soft power) overseas. Incredibly cheap for the return.

Tariffs alone are a disaster. Say what you want for the rest of the world. It may suffer, but it will move on. The US will forever be hobbled in isolation. The only reason they've flown so high and continue to fly high is that the rest of the world pays into them. Now with tariffs that will stop. With foreign "aid" cut, no one will be forced to enforce US laws overseas. Remember when we used to able to get software anywhere? Guess how it got killed off.

He's not right. He's an imbecile of incredible proportions and his policies appear to have been suggested to him. He's nothing but a TV host reciting the script fed to him. I doubt he even understands a fraction of what he's saying. While I'm not surprised dumb Americans swallow his shtick, I'm perplexed at how many outside the country can't even gather a moment's critical thinking to dispel this utter horseshit.


View attachment 216765

You certainly are an evangelist for the left but you're way out of date. The America that Obama and Biden created bears almost zero resemblance to the America that exists in your mind based upon your distant experiences.

I had a business in California. I shut it down just before Trump's firsts term in 2017 simply because it became just too hard to run under blue state rules and regulations. I don't need to go into details as what has happened to the leftards is public knowledge. The party has been hijacked by the fringe activists which is what caused their downfall in the first place. The bureaucracy plus the ideologies (green, minority rights etc) choked us to death.

If you'd asked me which party I aligned with in the 80s and 90s the answer would be unequivocally the Democrats but the party swung so far left it has now become unrecognizable. Clinton was a hero in more ways than one. Kennedy inspired me during my childhood. On the other hand the Republicans were warmongers and killjoys who wanted to ban porn.

Musk was a Democrat till 2021 and one of the smartest men in the world decided he'd had enough of them when he saw what the Biden admin was doing and how they behaved. I'm surprised it took him so long to dawn on him. Perhaps his autism prevented him from picking up the cues earlier.

Anyway Trump has won and the rules of engagement with the rest of the world have changed. I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the end game of the current tariff war and I don't understand economics well enough to dissect what is going on now. However I do agree with Trump that the rest of the world has been taking advantage of the US taxpayer at a level that the USA simply cannot afford.

With a 36 TRILLION deficit and a A TRILLION per year in interest payments with China being the main beneficiary it simply cannot end well for the US if nothing is done. The budget has to be balanced and quickly.

Is the Trump/Elon team the best there are for the job? I honestly cannot think of a better pair. Both are disruptors with zero respect for the status quo. Had Harris won the deep state puppet masters behind the scenes would have simply carried on what they had been doing during Biden era and I'm sure you'd agree that they don't have the average American taxpayer in mind when they plot their course.

Will Trump make things better or worse? Only time will tell it's like Tesla shares I have faith but others see only disaster ahead. If I'm still around at the end of 2028 we can revisit this issue and sort out the spoils. In the meantime I'm enjoying the popcorn.

 

[Leongsam]

Intermission... watch one of the most exciting bike races on the Calendar. It used to be a sprinter classic but not anymore.... !!!

 

[Leongsam]

Not so glockie.

As it happens one of my prior areas of specialization is American industrialization. It's been quite a few years since I've touched the stuff so my numbers are a bit fuzzy, but I still remember the main points.

Prior to WW2, the US was a technological and cultural backwater. Something like 20-something in the worlds top powers. Maybe higher but definitely out of the top 10. To cut a long story short. Two major things happened before they entered ww2. One was Britain had to hand over every single technological and intellectual advance they had over the rest of the world. I forgot the name of the operation, but some guy had to fly over with all that info to hand to the Americans. Tech leap #2. The second was lend-lease.

Tech leap #1 was taking all those fleeing Jewish and non-Jewish scientists from Europe.

Sometime in the 00s, I remember reading that Britain finally made the last payment on the lend-lease act. That's right. The UK was paying the US for all the war materiel and whatnot supplied for ww2. Every single bullet that Britain fired was cash going from the British empire to the US. For half a century. Without signing this act, the US refused to enter ww2.

Tech leaps #3 and #4 came after the end of ww2. All the German scientists that escaped penalties were subsequently hired by the US. Even more egregious NONE of the Nip scientists who were responsible for warcrimes were ever sentenced. They all went to work for US concerns. For exmaple, Unit 713's scientists were all directly or indirectly under the protection and employ of US corps. If you've never heard of unit 713, be disgusted first for why they buried that info then be disgusted by what they did.

This is what led to the incredible wealth and upsurge of US influence post ww2. Prior to that, all international navigation had to speak French. Hence Mayday. They're still sore at it today...

That's also incorrect. Having dealt with the US government on more than one occasion, I can tell you that it is inefficient. i.e. they need a kick up the pants. Because everything takes too long.

But what Trump is doing is not giving a kick up the pants. He's lobotomizing them so he can run rampant and unchecked. Even more, all the things he's doing to the US government is literally handing the world to China and Russia on a silver platter. Those foreign aid agencies? That's how China doesn't even own more of the world than it does now. All the services and spending he's cutting? He's positioning the US and it's ex-Allies to not be able to withstand a Russian onslaught whether it's military or technological (cyberwarfare).

On a less onerous note, have you ever wondered why your computers run microsoft, apple and google? Yup, you guessed right. Those foreign "aid" payments. It's a very cheap cost for guaranteeing a world market for their movies, TV shows and software. All this additional money allows them to have additional US bases and diplomatic missions (soft power) overseas. Incredibly cheap for the return.

Tariffs alone are a disaster. Say what you want for the rest of the world. It may suffer, but it will move on. The US will forever be hobbled in isolation. The only reason they've flown so high and continue to fly high is that the rest of the world pays into them. Now with tariffs that will stop. With foreign "aid" cut, no one will be forced to enforce US laws overseas. Remember when we used to able to get software anywhere? Guess how it got killed off.

He's not right. He's an imbecile of incredible proportions and his policies appear to have been suggested to him. He's nothing but a TV host reciting the script fed to him. I doubt he even understands a fraction of what he's saying. While I'm not surprised dumb Americans swallow his shtick, I'm perplexed at how many outside the country can't even gather a moment's critical thinking to dispel this utter horseshit.


View attachment 216765

Should American taxpayers be funding OZ universities? Australia is not a 3rd world country it's an extremely wealthy state with vast mineral reserves, a comprehensive infrastructure and an embedded social welfare system.

 

[Willamshakespear]

I'm technically trained. To be qualified for Level 5 FSD, Lidar and Radar sensors are definitely a must. Only that moron @Leongsam and that evil bastard Elon, will still insist that this is possible just with Imaging Technology. There is no way that Imaging Technology alone can fulfill the safety requirement and protocols

In one instance in China, there was one (I think it's a Xiaomi) EV which "saw" a large billboard vehicle advertisement upon approaching an overhead bridge. Its system then mistook it for an actual stationary vehicle and automatically applied emergency braking. It was of course rear ended and also caused a chain collision to those vehicles on its rear. WTF?

Dear Mr Winners,

The insignificant nobody me am glad you are technically trained. If so, then you would had identified & found a solution to the problem in the example you had provided.

There is MORE to imaging tech then one presumes & it lays within the definitions & perimeters of MATTER, as we know it today....

In the example you provided, it had NOTHING to do with FSD, Lidar or Radar sensors used that caused the pile up on a road in China. The problem lays with the COMPUTING POWER OF THE CHIP used in that supposed Xiaomi car.

Just pure image tech lays upon the digitized pixels used, & such are in x & y axis form. In order that the image be processed as a flat surface or a 3 dimensional object lays within the onboard computer chip of the car, to determine the z axis, & such requires huge computational power when all 3 axis are calculated at every single mere dot as enabled by those sensors.

Perhaps Xiaomi had been using a classical computer chip, despite its boasts of plentitude of sensors & thus made the error.

Thus the RACE for better chips Worldwide, even at the Quantum level, to process & provide valuable or critical information at even beyond light speed in REAL TIME....

 

[winners]

Dear Mr Winners,

The insignificant nobody me am glad you are technically trained. If so, then you would had identified & found a solution to the problem in the example you had provided.

There is MORE to imaging tech then one presumes & it lays within the definitions & perimeters of MATTER, as we know it today....

In the example you provided, it had NOTHING to do with FSD, Lidar or Radar sensors used that caused the pile up on a road in China. The problem lays with the COMPUTING POWER OF THE CHIP used in that supposed Xiaomi car.

Just pure image tech lays upon the digitized pixels used, & such are in x & y axis form. In order that the image be processed as a flat surface or a 3 dimensional object lays within the onboard computer chip of the car, to determine the z axis, & such requires huge computational power when all 3 axis are calculated at every single mere dot as enabled by those sensors.

Perhaps Xiaomi had been using a classical computer chip, despite its boasts of plentitude of sensors & thus made the error.

Thus the RACE for better chips Worldwide, even at the Quantum level, to process & provide valuable or critical information at even beyond light speed in REAL TIME....

Hello Shakespear,

Firstly, I may be technically inclined, but I am also not the genius of everything. Just like you, we have limitations in our knowledge. There are also many aspects of technically trained personnel in their own field of specialties and nobody is capable of every field in this technology. Just like in medicines, there are oncologist, gynaecologist, physio therapists, cardiologist, etc, each in its own special field of training. So, don't assume that everything is built wholesale. I'm sure your brain is fully capable of such differentiation, otherwise, you wouldn't have nicknamed yourself as Willamshakespear, or should it be Williamshakespeare instead?

I have been observing your posts for quite a while now. Although you usually begin by being humble in your starting sentences, but your follow up statements are mostly cynical towards your addressees. I believe this is just another way of expressing your hypocritical characteristics by nature, which I don't buy into.

Next, how do you know that Xiaomi is using a classical computer chip? Are you working in their engineering or R&D department? If not, don't assume as it only makes an ass out of u and me. As you've said it yourself, strong computer chips require huge computational power when all 3 axes are calculated and this will become a huge drain source which every EV maker will try to minimize in order to extend its range. So, there has to be a balance between using too much computational power drain against its useful range of travel to be derived. I'm sure you are capable of acknowledging that an EV's battery has no infinite power supply.

Finally, at this moment of technical advancement, nothing beats Lidar and Radar as compared to standalone Imaging Technology. There is no argument about this. Lidar is a ranging device, which measures the distance to a target whilst radar uses radio waves to determine the distance and velocity of the targets they hit. They both complement each other in determining objects in real time ahead of the vehicle. How does Imaging Technology can achieve in comparison? It can only determine what is ahead by comparing its size as it tries to get nearer to the object, but no definite source of measurement.

So, I hope I can at least clear your misconception on the basics of Lidar, Radar and Imaging Technology. Otherwise, do not just blabber at others if you are so incapable of reasoning out for yourself. Okay?

 

[Willamshakespear]

Finally, at this moment of technical advancement, nothing beats Lidar and Radar as compared to standalone Imaging Technology. There is no argument about this. Lidar is a ranging device, which measures the distance to a target whilst radar uses radio waves to determine the distance and velocity of the targets they hit. They both complement each other in determining objects in real time ahead of the vehicle. How does Imaging Technology can achieve in comparison? It can only determine what is ahead by comparing its size as it tries to get nearer to the object, but no definite source of measurement.

So, I hope I can at least clear your misconception on the basics of Lidar, Radar and Imaging Technology. Otherwise, do not just blabber at others if you are so incapable of reasoning out for yourself. Okay?

Sigh...you still don't understand...

"How does Imaging Technology can achieve in comparison?"

The electromagnetic field holds many spectrums & each can be measured. ULTIMATELY, ITS the DIGITIZED DATA from each spectrum that NEEDS to be processed. It's NOT just the size - xy axis at face value, but including the z axis that NEEDS to be understood in digitized lingo for the computer chip's algorithms to analyze & react beyond light speed to provide critical reaction.

It's ok. It's not an easy subject. I sincerely wish you all the best with your knowledge.

 

[winners]

Sigh...you still don't understand...

"How does Imaging Technology can achieve in comparison?"

The electromagnetic field holds many spectrums & each can be measured. ULTIMATELY, ITS the DIGITIZED DATA from each spectrum that NEEDS to be processed. It's NOT just the size - xy axis at face value, but including the z axis that NEEDS to be understood in digitized lingo for the computer chip's algorithms to analyze & react beyond light speed to provide critical reaction.

It's ok. It's not an easy subject. I sincerely wish you all the best with your knowledge.

Your explanation above is very vague. Can you be more detailed? Quote and reference to a reliable source with facts to convince me, or are you just making them up?

Furthermore, your mention of electromagnetic field clearly demonstrates that you are totally confused and simply assuming (again) that the Imaging Technology used in TESLA is similar to those used in medical applications. Tell me, since when does TESLA's Imaging Technology requires electromagnetic field? They are 2 different technologies and use different means of detection. The latter uses various forms of energy, like X-rays, sound waves, or magnetic fields, to create images, whilst the former uses only pixels from captured images. So, how does the Z-axis comes into play when captured images are only 2-dimensional?

Just for your information, I've been trained, worked and programmed on the Japanese FANUC (initially a part of FUJITSU Japan) Flexible Automation System (FAS) utilizing the FANUC robotics system. In addition to the usual 3-axes (X, Y and Z) movements, there are still another 3 axes (U, V and W) corresponding to the angular (rotational) movement on each of the X, Y and Z axis. I also have knowledge on the use and programming of the SIEMENS Simumerik CNC system as well as the MELDAS CNC Programming System by MITSUBISHI ELECTRIC. I had to have working knowledge to all the above because we cater to clients from different countries who will insist on using their preferred CNC controllers. For example, most European users will use the SIMENS system whilst Asians use mostly FANUC controllers and to a lesser extent, the MELDAS controllers. There are still others like MAZAKTROL, TOSNUC (from TOSHIBA) and HEIDENHAIN systems, which I admit that I'm not familiar with, although function wise, they are still the same, except for the differences in their programming formats and protocols. What are you trained on to challenge me?

Your knowledge into these 2 types of different Imaging Technologies is very shallow. Get your facts right, otherwise, don't bull-shit here. You are simply deceiving yourself and others in this forum just with those shallow knowledge of yours because you don't even have a decent idea of how FSD works. Just by claiming that TESLA's Imaging Technology uses electromagnetic field is truly a disgrace to yourself here. Why don't you even say that TESLA is also using Ultrasound Imaging to detect fetuses, especially for their Catgirl robots, LOL?

 

[winners]

In the example you provided, it had NOTHING to do with FSD, Lidar or Radar sensors used that caused the pile up on a road in China. The problem lays with the COMPUTING POWER OF THE CHIP used in that supposed Xiaomi car.

Interestingly, how do you explain your above deduction? I think you don't even know how does FSD works? How and what contribute to the operational aspects of a FSD system? If there is no sense of distance measurements and directions, how then can FSD works? How will the system recognize what's ahead and what are the road contours ahead? You are simply incorrigible in your naive argument and reasoning, yet you still want to insist your correctness.

Never mind, you are still an infant child when it comes to the perspective of understanding such a technology.