Serious Terrex AFV confiscation in HKG: The Implications and Revelations

[gongkia]

Or an earlier incident in Washington where Pinky cracked a sick joke and slighted the Chinese...about free smoke if you just open your window and free pork stew if u just turn on your tap in Shanghai..

How can our leader make fun of a country on an international platform..?? This is definitely a BIG BIG DIPLOMATIC DISASTER.

Pinky is very DL China about the joint venture between China and Malaysia to build the Malacca port.

 

[Papsmearer]

Why there is no security personnel onboard?

Its a civilian vessel. As I mentioned in my first post, they should have shipped it via a RSN vessel like an Endeavour class ship.

 

[Papsmearer]

I wonder if the RCWS from the mexicans; it would be interesting how this fiasco develops and implications to vendors.

The Chinese can buy the RCWS from the Mexicans or make it under license if they want to. But it will not be cheap and the reason is that Uncle Sam will be mighty pissed at the Mexicans for selling the chinese the RCWS. In many ways, the RCWS is more sophisticated then anything the americans use. But now, you have a gift wrapped opportunity to dismantle a few for study and for reverse engineering........for free. U want or not?

 

[Papsmearer]

At a routine press briefing in Beijing on Friday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry's spokesman Geng Shuang said
China had "noticed" and was "verifying" news reports about the seizure of the Terrex vehicles.


He added: "All ships that enter Hong Kong should follow the laws of the Special Administrative Region.
We oppose countries that have diplomatic relations with us to have any form of official exchanges with Taiwan, including defence cooperation."

Wow, this is not a good development. here is a chinese govt official saying that they oppose countries that have diplomatic relations with the PRC and at the same time act like a whore by sleeping with taiwan especially on defence matters. Looks like we are not going to get the Terrex back anytime soon. And looks like the chinese are preparing to escalate the issue more.

 

[Papsmearer]

quite simple. avoid hk as a transit stop altogether. it has become a chicom port of convenience under chicom control for their shenaniganery.

I suspect that in the past many SAF equipment have been transhipped thru HKG and there had been no problem. But this is just a shot from the chinese for the PAP to play ball when all other countries in the region have done so. Gay Loong and his defiant "Not the Middle Kingdom anymore" comment pissed off the chinese and they want to teach aqua boy a lesson.

 

[Papsmearer]

Confirm US Marines contract is gone case already. ST Engineering will never win it now. Good job which ever fucker screwed this up. Potential multibillion USD$ contract is gone.

Hong Kong has seized a shipment of Singaporean armoured personnel carriers that was in transit from Taiwan to Singapore, in an embarrassing incident that analysts warn could put Singaporean military secrets at risk.

Hong Kong customs, which has tight restrictions on the import and export of arms, said the equipment was discovered after a routine search on Wednesday afternoon detected “suspected controlled items”.

Although it has its own customs force, semi-autonomous Hong Kong’s defence and foreign affairs are controlled by China.

Singapore, which has Southeast Asia’s most advanced armed forces, has carried out military training in self-governing Taiwan since the 1970s, much to the annoyance of China, which sees Taiwan as a breakaway province.



Although both countries have deep economic ties, political tensions between Singapore and China have escalated in recent months because of the island nation’s concerns about Beijing’s assertive behaviour in the South China Sea.

Defence analysts warned that the detention of the Terrex vehicles, which are made by a Singapore government controlled company and are being trialled by the US Marines, could expose Singaporean military technology.


“The main thing they’d be concerned about is the digital communications and the battle management system, which is pretty high-tech,” said Gordon Arthur of Shephard Media, a defence industry publisher. “They wouldn’t want China finding out about that.”

Jon Grevatt, an analyst for IHS Janes, another defence publishing company, agreed that “Singapore would be concerned about any foreign government, China or otherwise, having unsupervised access to its military technologies”.

Singapore’s defence ministry said “Singapore authorities are providing relevant assistance to the Hong Kong Customs and expect the shipment to return to Singapore expeditiously”.

 

[gongkia]

Who heads will get roll?

 

[numero uno]

I suspect that in the past many SAF equipment have been transhipped thru HKG and there had been no problem. But this is just a shot from the chinese for the PAP to play ball when all other countries in the region have done so. Gay Loong and his defiant "Not the Middle Kingdom anymore" comment pissed off the chinese and they want to teach aqua boy a lesson.

already told you so in my past posts about this middle kingdom and what it means , and a big big faux pas by you know who and and he really pissed them off. first with the beijig free smoke joke in front of USA senate and now this. really big trouble ahead.

 

[numero uno]

You are one hundred percent right. Once again, the PAP has fucked up here. Why bother to tell the whole world that you are sending an SAF Team? U are just antagonizing the Chinese more and more. When you tell them that you are sending a SAF team over, you are telling them that we will send military personnel and you better allow them full and unfettered access to the AFVs. does this sound like something the Chinese will appreciate, especially when they are holding all the cards and you are holding non?

The SAF needs to secure and monitor the status of the Terrexes. They need to remove items like the optics and computers and any software that can be hacked and downloaded from the Battlefield management system. They need to put someone in there to make sure that the PLA is not climbing all over the AFV and cutting this out and removing that, etc. A SAF Team will accomplish this IF and that is the big IF, the PLA and the Chinese will allow them access to the AFVs and allow them authority to safeguard the AFVs to the degree that they want. The Chinese have made no such concessions to them, so trying to bulldoze and force their hand by sending in a SAF Team, in my opinion is the stupid play.

A better way would be to send a small team of 3 or 4 armour officers and ST Engineering staff who know the Terrex inside out and give them diplomatic passports. Send them to HKG right away and attach them to the consulate staff there. Have the SIngapore consulate in HKG request the chinese to allow access for their embassy staff to examine the Terrex, and if approved, then send this team in to assess what has been taken and what has been tampered with. This way, it sounds like a civil service branch of the singapore govt is requesting access to singapore property in the custody of the chinese. Instead of an army team coming in to see it.

Fucking Vivian the Chindian is shit useless as Foreign Minister, just like he was shit useless with YOG. he will be lucky if the chinese don't arrest this SAF team and throw them in jail for a gang rape.

really incompetent ministar of foreign affairs who think he is big shot. they expect the chinese to kow tow? my foot. this transhipment is not new and probably going on for a while when they use taiwan evergreen ships to ship out large vehicles. landing ships have only limited fuelling range unlike big container ships which probably stop in HK as a transit to offload some goods and they probably got played out when somebody intentionally tranfer out the vehicles and alert the PLA abouit the vehicles. this is payback for all the "middle kingdom" insults, free beijing smoke and pork soup on tap insults. expect more to come and all business ties inccluding tianjin project to go down the drain. doing business with the chinese have told me that for these guys, face is number one, then money. they are way smartter and sneakier than you think . defintely smarter than that ministar vivi or cambridge or harvard alumni,

 

[WujiBo]

We oppose countries that have diplomatic relations with us to have any form of official exchanges with Taiwan, including defence cooperation."

Chee Bye Kia! SGP is not a colony of China. We can do whatever we want who we want to be friends with!

Say it Ah Loong! In front of their farking face!

 

[Papsmearer]

The PAP is so stupid, treat these fucking PLA tiongs like Princes and they turn around and fuck us over. 70% gong cheebye voted for this shit. when it comes to dealing with Tiongs, no point to be nice to them and spend money on them. Turns out we don't even get to first base. The fucking PAP don't spend $26K teaching its own citizens english, but does so for PLA officers. Good, they can add the cost of 9 Terrex to this bill.

[h=1]Mindef explains S$25,900 language course for PLA officer[/h]
SINGAPORE — Language proficiency is important for foreign military officers who attend staff college courses here and the Defence Minstry will help them gain that proficiency so that they benefit from their time here, said Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen in Parliament yesterday (Nov 5).
He was replying to a question from Non-Constituency Member of Parliament Lina Chiam who had asked about a tender that had been called to provide an English Language course for an officer from China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA).


The course had cost S$25,900. The personalised, one-on-one, 360-hour course, was needed to get the officer to the level of proficiency conducted by a qualified English instructor, explained Dr Ng.
The Ministry of Defence had put out a tender on government’s e-procurement portal — GeBiz — for the course language course. “We had about five or six people, companies, who replied. The contract was awarded to the lowest offer that met the requirements and this was the amount of S$25,900, which worked out to about S$70 an hour. All this was in strict compliance with government’s regulations,” Dr Ng said.
Dr Ng also said that militaries have for many years exchanged officers to attend the staff college courses in each other’s country to establish better ties and such officers can become very useful resource persons.
“When our SAF officers go to other countries, they do the same in terms of spending some months to gain language proficiency,” he said.

 

[WujiBo]

They have no farking sense of gratitude?

They sent so many of their civil serpants to study post graduate degrees in Lee Kuan Yew institute.

And nearly one third of the professors in NTU came from China.

 

[Papsmearer]

I wonder whether CMA CGM replaced the experienced sinkie staff at APL after they bought it from NOL and then hired some cheap FT who was not familiar with the shipping manifest and documentation needed for the Terrex. Hence u have today's fuck up.

 

[kryonlight]

Chee Bye Kia! SGP is not a colony of China. We can do whatever we want!

[video=youtube;7bfaRdTMdfY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bfaRdTMdfY[/video]

 

[Papsmearer]

They have no farking sense of gratitude?

They sent so many of their civil serpants to study post graduate degrees in Lee Kuan Yew institute.

And nearly one third of the professor's in NTU came from China.

I guess the PAP thinks they have. hahahahah

 

[hsienloong]

This is only just a foreplay for PM Lee Hsien Loong and the PAP.
Wait till the actual screwing starts and you will see
PM Lee Hsien Loong and the PAP desperately throwing in their towels.

 

[johnny333]

PAP has been losing money in China since the Suzhou project days. Die, die, they insist on doing business there. They also want to buy cheap trains & elevators from China. They give the PRC in Spore more face than their own citizens that you now have PRC in Spore with an entitlement attitude.

It's about time that the PAP got their just deserts. Unfortunately 30% of the "lesser mortals" are innocent by standers.

 

[Papsmearer]

They have moved the Terrexes out of the docks now, so its not good news. It will mean the PRC has no intention to quickly return them.

[h=1]Seized SAF vehicles moved to cargo examination compound: HK media[/h]

SINGAPORE — The Hong Kong authorities have moved the seized Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) vehicles away from the port for storage, the territory’s media reported on Friday (Nov 25), raising questions about whether they will be returned expeditiously, as Singapore has requested.
Meanwhile, the incident widened on Friday, when China waded into the fray, saying it had noticed the news reports of the seized Terrex Infantry Carrier Vehicles (ICVs) and was verifying them. However, a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman sidestepped questions from reporters at a routine press briefing about whether Singapore had contacted Beijing on the issue and what would happen to the nine armoured vehicles next.


Nevertheless, the spokesman, Mr Geng Shuang, said: “All ships that enter Hong Kong should follow the laws of the Special Administrative Region. We oppose countries that have diplomatic relations with us to have any form of official exchanges with Taiwan, including defence cooperation.”
On Friday, Hong Kong’s Oriental Daily News published reports — complete with pictures and a video — of the vehicles being moved in the early hours under police escort to Hong Kong Customs’ cargo examination compound at the River Trade Terminal.

On Friday night, a team from the SAF was expected to reach Hong Kong to “address the security of the equipment”, said Singapore’s Ministry of Defence (Mindef). The Singapore Consulate General in Hong Kong is also assisting in the matter.
In its second public statement on the incident in as many days, the ministry said the SAF contracted APL as the commercial shipping line to transport nine Terrex ICVs and associated equipment to Singapore. APL is a unit of shipping giant CMA CGM Group, which bought over homegrown company Neptune Orient Lines earlier this year.
Mindef said that all commercial shipping lines used by the SAF are required to “comply with stringent requirements for protection against theft and tampering of equipment during the shipment, in addition to applying for all relevant permits”.
“These requirements have worked well and there have been no incidents of losses, theft or tampering over the years,” Mindef said. It added that the SAF will review the circumstances of the incident and determine if added measures are required.
The seizure of the Terrex vehicles — which were shipped from Taiwan — made headlines on Thursday after Hong Kong media, including the South China Morning Post (SCMP), broke the news.
Mindef said that during the transit through Hong Kong, “customs officials raised queries if the necessary permits and declarations by APL were in order and in the process detained the Terrex ICVs”.
It added that APL officials have assured the SAF that they are working with Hong Kong authorities to resolve the issue.
Mindef said that APL was required to adhere to all regulations, including declaring the equipment it transports in the ship’s cargo manifest and obtaining the permits needed to transit through ports. “The nine Terrex ICVs are training platforms with no ammunition or sensitive equipment on board,” the ministry said.
Responding to media queries, an APL spokesperson said the firm was extending its full cooperation to the Hong Kong authorities and working with the various stakeholders. “The matter is pending discussion and we are unable to comment further,” the spokesperson said. Nevertheless, the company is “committed to ensuring cargo security as well as full compliance with all regulatory and trade requirements in its conduct of business”.
EXPERTS WEIGH IN
Meanwhile, an SCMP report on Friday claimed that the incident was at the centre of “diplomatic tension between Singapore and China” over Singapore’s military exchanges with Taiwan. The report quoted unidentified sources as saying that Singapore would need to contact the Chinese Ministry of Foreign *Affairs to secure the return of the vehicles.
Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Dong was quoted as saying: “Singapore will probably be in big trouble this time because Beijing could use this chance to give the city-state a hard time (in retaliation for) Singapore’s stand on the South China Sea issue.”
However, political and security experts TODAY spoke to played down such a prospect. They also pointed out that military exchanges between Singapore and Taiwan have spanned decades with China’s knowledge.
Associate Professor Li Mingjiang, from the S Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said Beijing did not need to use the incident to pressure Singapore, when other channels, both formal and informal, are available.
He added: “We’ve not seen really seen any notable signs … that Beijing is very upset about Singapore’s military training activities in Taiwan. I’ve not heard such complaints from Chinese officials or policy elites.”
On Mr Geng’s comments, he noted that Chinese officials were bound to respond to the media in a manner that emphasises the “one China” principle.
Dr Lam Peng Er, a senior research fellow at the National University of Singapore’s East Asian Institute, said that Singapore’s military training in Taiwan was due to space constraints on the island-state, and it was “very clear” to China that it was not intended to provoke.
On the South China Sea issue, Professor James Tang, a political scientist at the Singapore Management University, noted that the temperature has gone down a notch, and “it doesn’t help China’s case to be too harsh on Singapore”.
Referring to Mr Geng’s comments, another SCMP report claimed the seizure could be a “strategic calculation” by Beijing to send “a warning shot” to Singapore.
But Mr Xu Guangyu, a retired major-general in the Chinese military, felt it was a “simple incident” that should not be played up. “It does trigger speculation in such an international atmosphere, but I believe it is an accident, not something done on purpose to create tension,” Mr Xu told the SCMP. “Even if China wants to send Singapore a signal, there are numerous ways and channels. This case as leverage is just too loose and weak.”

 

[songsongjurong]

LHL is running this island to ground. Perhaps he should complain to international court and recall PRC ambassador for tongue lashing...but balless him will not dare to.

 

[Papsmearer]

Seems like China is now escalating the issue. They are now scolding us for having military ties with the taiwanese. Even though they know about this for many decades. Old Fart had discussed this issue and Exercise Starlight with deng xiao peng many years ago and was told that it would be ok and that China will turn a blind eye to it. Seems like they have changed their minds now. Gay Loong bend over backwards to cater to the Chinese is now coming back to bite him on the arse.

[h=1]Beijing warns against Taiwan ties as Singapore tries to free troop carriers in Hong Kong[/h]
Beijing on Friday warned countries against maintaining military ties with Taiwan, after Singaporean armored troop carriers were seized en route from the island that Beijing regards as a breakaway province.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said that Beijing was verifying reports that Hong Kong customs had seized nine Singapore troop carriers and other equipment in 12 containers being shipped from Taiwan after military exercises.
Singapore's defense ministry said on Thursday it was trying to free the carriers "expeditiously", while Hong Kong customs said on Friday that its officers were still investigating the shipment.

Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs referred questions to the defense ministry. The defense ministry did not comment beyond its official statement.
"The entry and exit of foreign personnel and goods in the Hong Kong special administrative region should respect its relevant laws," Geng said.
"I wish to reiterate that the Chinese government consistently and resolutely opposes any form of official exchanges, including military exchanges and cooperation, between countries with which we have diplomatic relations and the Taiwan region."
The seizure comes amid mounting regional uncertainty and signs of rising tension between China and Singapore, which has deepened its security relationship with the United States over the last year and remains concerned over Beijing's assertive territorial stance in the South China Sea.
Regional diplomatic sources say Chinese officials are particularly concerned at Singapore's hosting of increased deployments of U.S. P-8 Poseidon surveillance planes, which are equipped with various sensors that can target China's expanding Hainan-based submarine fleet.
Officials on both sides have unusually traded barbs in public in recent months, including an accusation by Singapore's ambassador to China in September that a major state-run Chinese newspaper had fabricated a report about Singapore's position on the South China Sea.
Chinese leaders have repeatedly told Singaporean counterparts not to get involved in the territorial dispute, in which China asserts sovereignty over waters and islands claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.
Singapore has no claims, but as the biggest port in Southeast Asia, its open economy depends on continued free navigation in the area.
Manila and Kuala Lumpur are now the focus of Chinese diplomatic charm offensives, further complicating Singapore's neighborhood just as the election of Donald Trump to the U.S. presidency compounds strategic uncertainties, regional diplomats and analysts say.
CHINA MAY PRESSURE SINGAPORE, EXPERTS SAY
Singapore has had a longstanding if low-key military relationship with Taiwan, despite having a strong diplomatic relationship with Beijing as well as with a range of Western militaries.
Singaporean defense experts say the Singaporean military still maintains a small semi-permanent presence in Taiwan, with larger numbers of infantry troops being sent to the island for annual training drills.
It has gradually reduced that training, moving to other facilities in Australia and India, but is unlikely to pull out of Taiwan completely, experts said.
Singapore has also traditionally served as a venue for diplomacy between Beijing and Taipei.
Bernard Loo, a security expert at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said that while some kind of administrative mistake may have sparked the detention, he suspected that Chinese officials would be keen to use the case to send another signal of concern to Singapore.
"In the current climate between Singapore and China, this one is a real opportunity for Beijing to pressure Singapore a bit more," he said.

Regional diplomats said that Chinese military officials could be expected to discreetly inspect the vehicles and other equipment.
While state-of-the-art, the Singaporean vehicles are not considered particularly sensitive military equipment.
While Hong Kong runs a separate government system from mainland China under the terms of its handover from Britain to China in 1997, including customs, Beijing has the right to get involved in issues related to foreign affairs and defense.
Singapore defense ministry officials said on Friday the shipment involved no ammunition or sensitive equipment, and had earlier contracted commercial shipping line APL to handle the cargo.
"APL was required to comply with all regulations including ... obtaining the necessary permits required to transit through ports," a ministry statement said.
APL staff are now working with Hong Kong officials to free the shipment, aided by Singaporean diplomats and military officials.
An APL spokesman confirmed the discussions.
"APL is committed to ensuring cargo security as well as full compliance with all regulatory and trade requirements in its conduct of business," the spokesman said. APL is a subsidiary of the French-based CMA CGM Group.