Tan Kin Lian replies to "smears"

[kukubird58]

hahaha......my little bird heard from a demi god that papee got a secret weapon.....
those with better memory will know who he is......
for those who have forgotten, here is a clue....he was from the Aljuneid GRC.
another clue....the post of House Speaker was deemed too "small" for him.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

That is not impression that you gave us.

As a politician you must know how important picking up the forms personally is. It's an excellent photo opportunity, to give a couple soundbites, and signal to ordinary Singaporeans that it is an important event and not a trivial matter. Why would you even think of doing it. Do you know why Tony Tan and Tan Cheng Bock went to pick up the form with so many minders ready to do it including siblings, kids and grand kids?

Scroobal,

That is exactly so. I have explained, because TKL's family is still undecided about the merits of him standing as candidate, thus the difference in the arrangement. The key thing is, take the forms first.

There is nothing exceptional about such arrangement, it happens to George Yeo as well as Chiam.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Unrepented]

Given the context, the misquote is immaterial. In that neither its commission nor omission would have an effect so significant that a reasonable or informed reader after weighing all the specific facts and circumstances as reported in the said article in TODAY, would form a different opinion.

But since you were so uptight and emotional in the discussions, the misquote was verified and admitted in a subsequent post.

Free for all to see.

Most of us did cut you some slack in being emotional and making arrogant remarks about forumers who have just as much right to comment as you demand your opinion be heard as a member of this forum.

And to address your concern, if members in this forum endeavour to smear (as alleged or perceived), we would not have engaged in such casual banter. It would have been done with a measure of due diligence befitting the alleged or perceived cause. But I believe it is not the intent of the majority here.

I trust that I speak for most of us that, we just want the have the best among the available candidates for the job.

You are free to state your arguement, but please try to not get too emotional in the discourse. Its fair game.

Unrepented. The remark I said was in respond to MightyMouse because he was questioning why Tan Kin Lian set a target initially. Hence, I cited the two runners theory. Please do not mistaken, as I believe the target was importance to Tan Kin Lian. This is perhaps, because Tan Kin Lian has high expectation on himself.

Unfortunately, the petition has been discontinue prematurely. As such, I urge MightyMouse to move on.

I have never claim that I am representing Tan Kin Lian. However, I do not deny that I am his supporter though. I do not see any of my respond weighs authority, but of course, I speak with clear conscience.

I have already tried to play down your "my WP friend" allegation (which you admitted was wrong because I have investigated into it).

 

[scroobal]

Bro,

Your account below is painting a disastrous picture on how Tan Kin Lian ended up running for President. Her are my main points from your post below.

1. He was reluctant to run but you persuaded him.

2. He was upset with PAP's value system but chose not to run for Parliament but the Presidency. Seems completely out of whack with logic and common sense. The Elected Presidency is a creature of PAP and it is essentially a sterile office with little or no ability to change or do anything. Why not stand against the PAP if he feels strongly against the PAP.

3. He helped you and you are therefore helping him argument makes a mockery of the whole thing. This sort of argument is best left for buying lunch or dinner for someone and the other party reciprocates.

4. The word value keeps popping up but there is very little that we can see. Frankly, when I saw him use Tan Cheng Bock's name to do a survey for President, I realised that we are dealing with a manipulative individual. By now people are adding up all the comments and incidents and can see a clear pattern of an individual who has a big ego and manipulative. He claims that he is not affiliated to any political party but everyone who has dealing with have been opposition candidates. Associating with opposition figures is absolutely fine but why make such claims.

Look at today's comment by him to the press. He claims that he is closer to the ordinary Singaporean but can't even bothered to pick up his own form while Tony Tan is a multi- millionaire can do it as well as Tan Cheng Bock.

I hope you can see the number of disconnect between his comments and his actions. Maybe he can explain how he can fight the PAP sitting in the Istana instead of fighting for a parliament seat, attending meet the people sessions, writing letters to help residents and making the PAP accountable. One cannot deny the President's perks are really impressive and one does have to do much but enjoy the role.

The theme is still the same. Even before I approach him, he has already started a blog writing about issues and answering questions about investment and insurance. You are saying you don't know him prior to now but the truth is, you don't know doesn't mean he is not doing anything publicly. That's the point. He is providing a public service on his blog.

He got involved in Minibond saga basically because a lot of those victims wrote to him via his blog. He then decided to act on it. There is really nothing "opportunistic" about it.

To tell you the truth, when I approached him prior to the Minibond saga to talk about the possibility of standing as an Elected President candidate, he wasn't that keen at all. But he shared his values with me and agreed with me that something has gone wrong with the PAP's approach in governance. He declined to contest the EP but we became friends.

When the Minibond broke out, he actually requested help from some of his PAP friends first but all of them declined to help out in the Minibond campaign. It is only thereafter, he approached me to help him out with the Mandarin speeches.

In return, Kin Lian put up his promise to support me in terms of standing on my rally stage to speak for me if I ever contest for elections again (yes, I haven't decide to stand for GE at that time). Now, at that moment, he still held the view that he will not stand for EP. Another key reason for his decline on standing for EP is that he knew his wife will object. There is absolutely NOTHING OPPORTUNISTIC about speaking on my rally stage.

The Minibond saga might have influenced his initial thought of not contesting the EP. When I talked to him again about this issue later, though he is still not convinced about the merits of contesting the EP, I suggested why not we try out the will of the people by starting the petition campaign? That's how it gets started. But apparently, the response wasn't exactly good apart from the support from some of the Minibond victims. On the other hand, his wife is still resistant to that idea. Thus, we just shelved the idea aside.

A lot of things happened since then, issues of competency of PAP governance and policy issues emerged. Kin Lian started to feel the need to come forward as a candidate for EP. Though his wife is still reluctant to support his idea, he just make his first step. Subsequently, his wife began to support his move to go for candidacy.

Thus I would say that those who see Kin Lian's involvement in my campaign as "opportunistic" I feel that is doing injustice to his good will. He kept his promise which he made during the Minibond Saga as a return of my goodwill support of him. He didn't call me to ask to speak on my rally stage before or during the GE. Nope. He didn't take that initiative at all. I was the one who called him up to request his presence and support. That is why I think it is unfair for people, especially Scroobal, to insinuate that he was manipulative or opportunistic in speaking on NSP rally.

My apology to Kin Lian to cause such misunderstanding and aspersion due to my request of him helping me out during the campaign. He didn't utter a word of blame upon me for this matter but I feel that I will need to clarify here.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Brother Scroobal,

Running for GE is similar but NOT EXACTLY like running for EP. His reluctance stamps from respecting the views among his family, for both standing as GE and EP candidate. If he was reluctant to stand as EP, why would he be standing as GE candidate?

Yes, he doesn't need to do all these.

If you consider speaking on the rally stage of opposition campaigns as "connections", then I believe the connections would be much greater than being an MP or Minister of PAP!

I chose to help him has nothing to do with he supporting me in GE. Why? Even before he promised to help me in GE, I was already persuading him to stand for EP! Thus, since as I am the one who initiated it, whether he helped me during GE or not, I would naturally be helping him in EP basically because I was one of the people who have talked and persuaded him 3 years ago!

I believe you should stop looking things through your bias tainted glasses. Some may not believe that he should stand as opposition candidate basically because he was from PAP before. That would really be "biting the hands whom fed him". But here, standing as EP is totally different piece of cake.

Locke has tried to imply that he is biting the hands which fed him but this is really the wrong analogy unless you are saying by standing as a candidate for EP when PAP doesn't endorse means going against PAP! If this is true, then why no one ever consider TCB or even Dr Tony Tan as biting the hands of PAP when both claims that PAP didn't endorse them? The truth is, standing for EP has nothing to do with standing against PAP. Even as EP, it has nothing to do with anti or pro PAP but basically, you are just performing a role to safeguard the reserves and keep the checks and balances on ANY ruling party, be it PAP or otherwise.

Unless you are implying that any President who wants to put checks and balances or performing the role of safeguarding the reserves from PAP as ruling party must be necessary going against PAP! The it would mean that even TCB is "against" PAP which may not be the true... or Tony Tan? And by this logic, it would mean that only when the President just stop performing the role of checks and balances, protecting the reserves while PAP is ruling party would mean he is not opposition or anti-PAP!

That is why I have to stress again, FAIRNESS and INDEPENDENCE are two important traits. But that doesn't mean that when he has the inclination of being friendly to opposition members would necessary mean he will not be FAIR or INDEPENDENT. If that is the case, I guess an ex-PAP MP or Minister would be even MORE bias than anyone else!

It is TRUE that TKL is not affiliated to any opposition party because he has not joined any! He might have attended some opposition event but that doesn't mean he is affiliated at all. If attending event is said to be affiliation, then TCB who has attended Thank You Chiam See Tong dinner would have been considered as affiliated with opposition party as well!

Worse, TCB has admitted that he has given some advice to opposition members in his speech; that is CLOSER to affiliation!

As for the question why TKL didn't go fight PAP on GE since he is so unhappy about PAP, then you should ask TCB the same question as well. Since he has been all along so unhappy about PAP in many aspect, why did he stand under PAP? As of now, why did he choose to contest EP instead of standing as opposition candidate in GE2011?

The truth is, many people are unhappy with PAP but that doesn't mean that they would stand as opposition candidate; people just like you or any forummer here as well. Some even worse, so unhappy with PAP but still vote for them!

Goh Meng Seng

Bro,

Your account below is painting a disastrous picture on how Tan Kin Lian ended up running for President. Her are my main points from your post below.

1. He was reluctant to run but you persuaded him.

2. He was upset with PAP's value system but chose not to run for Parliament but the Presidency. Seems completely out of whack with logic and common sense. The Elected Presidency is a creature of PAP and it is essentially a sterile office with little or no ability to change or do anything. Why not stand against the PAP if he feels strongly against the PAP.

3. He helped you and you are therefore helping him argument makes a mockery of the whole thing. This sort of argument is best left for buying lunch or dinner for someone and the other party reciprocates.

4. The word value keeps popping up but there is very little that we can see. Frankly, when I saw him use Tan Cheng Bock's name to do a survey for President, I realised that we are dealing with a manipulative individual. By now people are adding up all the comments and incidents and can see a clear pattern of an individual who has a big ego and manipulative. He claims that he is not affiliated to any political party but everyone who has dealing with have been opposition candidates. Associating with opposition figures is absolutely fine but why make such claims.

Look at today's comment by him to the press. He claims that he is closer to the ordinary Singaporean but can't even bothered to pick up his own form while Tony Tan is a multi- millionaire can do it as well as Tan Cheng Bock.

I hope you can see the number of disconnect between his comments and his actions. Maybe he can explain how he can fight the PAP sitting in the Istana instead of fighting for a parliament seat, attending meet the people sessions, writing letters to help residents and making the PAP accountable. One cannot deny the President's perks are really impressive and one does have to do much but enjoy the role.

 

[GoldenDragon]

hahaha......my little bird heard from a demi god that papee got a secret weapon.....
those with better memory will know who he is......
for those who have forgotten, here is a clue....he was from the Aljuneid GRC.
another clue....the post of House Speaker was deemed too "small" for him.

Even before GE, a year ago or so, his helpers in Aljunied were all very confident he would be President next round.

 

[victoros]

Unrepented. I enjoyed those recent exchanges in this forum, and I agreed with you that except for those few bad breed that are fond of using vulgar language, most of the forumers here are sensible and reasonable people. I consider using vulgarity is a lot more worst than smearing.

We can confirm now that we have three candidates that will be contesting in the Singapore Presidential Election. They are TT, TCB and TKL but I suspect there may be another candidate coming on board pretty soon.

I think it is time for fellow Singaporeans to sit down and listen carefully to these candidates and hear what they can offer before casting your vote during middle or late August 2011. Good luck, fellow netizens.

Given the context, the misquote is immaterial. In that neither its commission nor omission would have an effect so significant that a reasonable or informed reader after weighing all the specific facts and circumstances as reported in the said article in TODAY, would form a different opinion.

But since you were so uptight and emotional in the discussions, the misquote was verified and admitted in a subsequent post.

Free for all to see.

Most of us did cut you some slack in being emotional and making arrogant remarks about forumers who have just as much right to comment as you demand your opinion be heard as a member of this forum.

And to address your concern, if members in this forum endeavour to smear (as alleged or perceived), we would not have engaged in such casual banter. It would have been done with a measure of due diligence befitting the alleged or perceived cause. But I believe it is not the intent of the majority here.

I trust that I speak for most of us that, we just want the have the best among the available candidates for the job.

You are free to state your arguement, but please try to not get too emotional in the discourse. Its fair game.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

I would be the first to say that Tony Tan is so closely linked and tied to the PAP that he is a party man through and through despite his "resignations". The question is how between TLK and TCB what are the links and the depth of connections between the candidates and the PAP.

The PAP would want a President who acts within the limits of their design and does nothing overtly political, leaving policy and decision making powers to the cabinet. In a debate with a liberal lawyer he stated clearly and I have to agree with his reading, that whilst the constitution clearly states what he can or cannot do and the manner in which he can be over ruled by parliament, it leaves out or does not say what he CAN SAY OR CANNOT SAY.

There is no dispute that the Queen cannot or will not by convention disagree with the government of the day. The issue is that convention remains undecided and an evolving mechanism as we go forward as a nation politically.

I see the role of the President as both a moral role and a uniter of all Singaporeans above and beyond politics. I do not see him directly challenging or disagreeing with the government of the day but neither do I see him accepting all the policies blindly. The question is how do u morally unite all Singaporeans and disagree with the government whilst uniting the people and the state. I would argue lead by example for example if the President refuses to accept his salary or donates his salary above half a million SGD or a million. this is clearly a disagreement with the gov policy on political talent without an open challenge. Firm and moral leadership but who to deliver ?

TLK in my view is one level below TT in eating from the PAP buffet. The chinese have a saying never bite the hand that feeds you and instinctly I cannot trust a person who would bite someone who has accepted so much from the PAP.

TCB has had a bite but by my definition the smallest from all concerned and has demonstrated the most moral courage in disagreeing. Thus he has my vote.


Locke

Brother Scroobal,

Running for GE is similar but NOT EXACTLY like running for EP. His reluctance stamps from respecting the views among his family, for both standing as GE and EP candidate. If he was reluctant to stand as EP, why would he be standing as GE candidate?

Yes, he doesn't need to do all these.

If you consider speaking on the rally stage of opposition campaigns as "connections", then I believe the connections would be much greater than being an MP or Minister of PAP!

I chose to help him has nothing to do with he supporting me in GE. Why? Even before he promised to help me in GE, I was already persuading him to stand for EP! Thus, since as I am the one who initiated it, whether he helped me during GE or not, I would naturally be helping him in EP basically because I was one of the people who have talked and persuaded him 3 years ago!

I believe you should stop looking things through your bias tainted glasses. Some may not believe that he should stand as opposition candidate basically because he was from PAP before. That would really be "biting the hands whom fed him". But here, standing as EP is totally different piece of cake.

Locke has tried to imply that he is biting the hands which fed him but this is really the wrong analogy unless you are saying by standing as a candidate for EP when PAP doesn't endorse means going against PAP! If this is true, then why no one ever consider TCB or even Dr Tony Tan as biting the hands of PAP when both claims that PAP didn't endorse them? The truth is, standing for EP has nothing to do with standing against PAP. Even as EP, it has nothing to do with anti or pro PAP but basically, you are just performing a role to safeguard the reserves and keep the checks and balances on ANY ruling party, be it PAP or otherwise.

Unless you are implying that any President who wants to put checks and balances or performing the role of safeguarding the reserves from PAP as ruling party must be necessary going against PAP! The it would mean that even TCB is "against" PAP which may not be the true... or Tony Tan? And by this logic, it would mean that only when the President just stop performing the role of checks and balances, protecting the reserves while PAP is ruling party would mean he is not opposition or anti-PAP!

That is why I have to stress again, FAIRNESS and INDEPENDENCE are two important traits. But that doesn't mean that when he has the inclination of being friendly to opposition members would necessary mean he will not be FAIR or INDEPENDENT. If that is the case, I guess an ex-PAP MP or Minister would be even MORE bias than anyone else!

It is TRUE that TKL is not affiliated to any opposition party because he has not joined any! He might have attended some opposition event but that doesn't mean he is affiliated at all. If attending event is said to be affiliation, then TCB who has attended Thank You Chiam See Tong dinner would have been considered as affiliated with opposition party as well!

Worse, TCB has admitted that he has given some advice to opposition members in his speech; that is CLOSER to affiliation!

As for the question why TKL didn't go fight PAP on GE since he is so unhappy about PAP, then you should ask TCB the same question as well. Since he has been all along so unhappy about PAP in many aspect, why did he stand under PAP? As of now, why did he choose to contest EP instead of standing as opposition candidate in GE2011?

The truth is, many people are unhappy with PAP but that doesn't mean that they would stand as opposition candidate; people just like you or any forummer here as well. Some even worse, so unhappy with PAP but still vote for them!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[jw5]

Given the context, the misquote is immaterial. In that neither its commission nor omission would have an effect so significant that a reasonable or informed reader after weighing all the specific facts and circumstances as reported in the said article in TODAY, would form a different opinion.

Is the above lawyer or accountant talk? :o

Can I answer your colour question: How do you explain colour to a blind man?

Ans:
You don't have to.
1. If he was born blind, he doesn't need to know.
2. If he was not born blind, he will already know.
3. If he was born blind but he recovers, he will find out himself.

 

[Unrepented]

I do not agree, and am never of the opinion that people who are fond in using vulgar language are of bad breed.

On the other hand, people who are nice and polite may not be good people.:o

I am surpised that you enjoyed those recent exchanges calling forumers fools, tell people to keep quiet etc.

Unrepented. I enjoyed those recent exchanges in this forum, and I agreed with you that except for those few bad breed that are fond of using vulgar language, most of the forumers here are sensible and reasonable people.

 

[wikiphile]

TLK in my view is one level below TT in eating from the PAP buffet. The chinese have a saying never bite the hand that feeds you and instinctly I cannot trust a person who would bite someone who has accepted so much from the PAP.

Locke

A very good point there bro, since the PAP came into power, all Singaporeans big and small have been the beneficiaries of PAP's policies (not to mention some getting the worst brunt of it) one way or another. A small group, the men in white have benefitted lots and an even smaller circle within the organization benefitted the most.

Had TKL been just Mr. TKL and not TKL formerly of NTUC and PAP, we will not be debating about his past.

 

[jw5]

The word value keeps popping up but there is very little that we can see.

Associating with opposition figures is absolutely fine but why make such claims.

Look at today's comment by him to the press. He claims that he is closer to the ordinary Singaporean but can't even bothered to pick up his own form while Tony Tan is a multi- millionaire can do it as well as Tan Cheng Bock.

I hope you can see the number of disconnect between his comments and his actions.

1. Perhaps, the issue is more about values than value. Obviously, all 3 candidates being talked about have some value, otherwise we would also be discussing Mr Ooi or the former satay man.

2. Associating with opposition members is probably to get the opposition vote, and hope the pap vote is split between the 2 doctors. Make the claim so as not to incur the pap's wrath and perhaps pick up the odd light pap vote.
Maybe he didn't forsee that he could split the opposition vote by himself.

3. He gave a statement saying that Tony had 20 years of close association with pap government etc, again perhaps because of point 2. Just take away the word government and he could be talking about himself.

4. Wondering whether GMS can see the disconnect and is saying it's ok, doesn't matter, not important, or he can't see it at all.
Quite sure it's not due to lack of education.

 

[jw5]

It is TRUE that TKL is not affiliated to any opposition party because he has not joined any! He might have attended some opposition event but that doesn't mean he is affiliated at all. If attending event is said to be affiliation, then TCB who has attended Thank You Chiam See Tong dinner would have been considered as affiliated with opposition party as well!

Worse, TCB has admitted that he has given some advice to opposition members in his speech; that is CLOSER to affiliation!

Affiliation mean association or connection to individuals or organizations.
You don't have to join an organization or be a member to be affiliated with them.
"English educated people" also know how to analyse the meaning of english words and "understand subtlety".

TCB could be said to have some affiliation with opposition parties as well, but please show us any statement he has made that claims he doesn't or won't.
In any case, we would be happy to examine TCB as well. Most of us are not here typing all this because we like him, at least certainly not me. We simply have to make a choice.

 

[victoros]

I always believe no vulgar language (used against other netizens) should be tolerated. I do not use them and hence, calling such forumers as fool is the least that I can say. You are correct that people who are nice and polite may not be good people, but in my opinion, those using vulgarity on fellow netizens are definitely a bad breed. No matter what kind of style Internet culture is, he cannot challenge the bottom line of social public morality for using vulgar language online.

I do not agree, and am never of the opinion that people who are fond in using vulgar language are of bad breed.

On the other hand, people who are nice and polite may not be good people.:o

I am surpised that you enjoyed those recent exchanges calling forumers fools, tell people to keep quiet etc.

 

[Zombie]

The Minibond saga might have influenced his initial thought of not contesting the EP. When I talked to him again about this issue later, though he is still not convinced about the merits of contesting the EP, I suggested why not we try out the will of the people by starting the petition campaign? That's how it gets started. But apparently, the response wasn't exactly good apart from the support from some of the Minibond victims. On the other hand, his wife is still resistant to that idea. Thus, we just shelved the idea aside.

Quote from TKL 3 years ago in the news on 100,000 signatures.

Nov 23, 2008
Tan Kin Lian eyes presidency
Ex-NTUC Income's chief will run if he has 100,000 people willing to support him
By Nur Dianah Suhaimi

I will only do it if enough people want me to lead. If Singaporeans want change, they must have a stake in it and show their commitment by putting down their names. I cannot do this without strong support

No matter who initiated it, TKL is the one who set "100,000 strong support" as a precondition, in his own words.

The wife thing is funny. For 3 years, the wife has always been the problem, but can be resolved in just a few days after someone collected the form on his behalf.

 

[Unrepented]

Among those who stepped forward thus far, imo TCB had displayed an aptitude suitable for the office. To say the least, TCB has made known his stand on FT policies (that is all I know:o)

I have a theory : I think TCB may be able to garner the support of voters who voted for opposition in the last GE, plus some from pap supporters. Maybe someone or people dont wish that to happen.:o

TCB has had a bite but by my definition the smallest from all concerned and has demonstrated the most moral courage in disagreeing. Thus he has my vote.


Locke

 

[Unrepented]

1. Actually hor..... I asked my neighbour's five year old son for advice one.:o

Tonight I go tell his parents the good news that their child got potential to be lawyer or accountant Btw, do you think his son can be also become doctor bo

2. And watch out for the change in my sig. later

Is the above lawyer or accountant talk? :o

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear JW5,

I put it from another perspective, show me WHICH candidates have not declared that he is INDEPENDENT?

Once you say you are independent, isn't it by logic you are declaring that you do not have any "association" or "affiliation" or whatever with any political parties?

The cup is either half full or half empty. Thus, from this perspective, I think there isn't any difference between all the candidates. TCB has BOTH "affiliation" with opposition as well PAP! TT has more than "affiliation" with PAP. TKL has openly declared his disagreement with PAP and has resigned long ago from PAP, as compared to TCB (1 month ago) and TT (1 day ago)!

So, what's your point?

Goh Meng Seng

2. Associating with opposition members is probably to get the opposition vote, and hope the pap vote is split between the 2 doctors. Make the claim so as not to incur the pap's wrath and perhaps pick up the odd light pap vote.
Maybe he didn't forsee that he could split the opposition vote by himself.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

what abt the truth viz TKL's bo liao 100k petition to run for EP??...what abt his bo liao no show at the ED office to collect EP forms, instead sending his bud??...r these 'smears' that TKL seems to allude to amongst other things in his latest media comments?...

Karmabear. It shows your stupidity here. Tan Kin Lian supporters will definitely devote their time to distribute flyers during the campaigning period. However, the writ has not been serve which means, no activity can take place right now. The fact that there are few netizens attempting to discredit Tan Kin Lian with false allegations and stories, one of Tan Kin Lian supporter and that is ME, decide to come forward to speak the truth instead.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

wah lau...to quote TKL's 'big time' supporter GMS...this one is more PAP than PAP...hahahahaha...

Nonetheless, I am thankful that you do not support Tan Kin Lian. This is because Tan Kin Lian supporters are a lot more smarter though.