Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for support

[phouse3]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

http://hk.ibtimes.com/articles/20081016/mini-bonds.htm
Hong Kong Chief Executive talks about Consumer Council helping in joint lawsuits, tapping into consumer legal action funds and the government injecting additional funds if necesssary.

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/284775.asp
CASE prepared to help investors sue banks

http://938live.sg/portal/site/938Li...aram=18d2638896593110VgnVCM100000e101000aRCRD
Law Minister of Singapore says "class action suit possible"

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

http://hk.ibtimes.com/articles/20081016/mini-bonds.htm
Hong Kong Chief Executive talks about Consumer Council helping in joint lawsuits, tapping into consumer legal action funds and the government injecting additional funds if necesssary.

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/284775.asp
CASE prepared to help investors sue banks

http://938live.sg/portal/site/938Li...aram=18d2638896593110VgnVCM100000e101000aRCRD
Law Minister of Singapore says "class action suit possible"

Putting the HK's story aside.
In Singapore, CASE and Law Minister would agree that class action suit is possible, because there is no law stopping you.

Under the Financial Adviser Act, the banks are exempted from the duty to recommend the right structured deposit products to the customers. This means that the most important common base is missing. That is probably why Glenn Knight said that collective action is difficult.

 

[phouse3]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

del.............

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

del....

therefore, del....

 

[miosux]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

that's just bullshit... stan chart's risk assessment team took a look at the minibonds and refused to offer them to their customers. what does that tell you about MAS chairman who signed off on the minibonds? there are other banks that did not offer the minibonds as well. why???

... but MAS and DBS looked the other way. and they say no conflict of interest for the ex-head of mas to be sleeping with the head of temasek... yeah right...

I look at things differently.

I would argue that the minibonds are perfect. That's the reason you bought it in the first place. In fact, if you show the schematics to any banker or the MAS Chairman, he/she would think it is safe too without expert investigation and hind-sight...

 

[kakowi]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Under the Financial Adviser Act, the banks are exempted from the duty to recommend the right structured deposit products to the customers. This means that the most important common base is missing. That is probably why Glenn Knight said that collective action is difficult.

I am sufficiently intrigued by your point because of its implications. Intrigued because it appears to say that the bank is excused from the duty to make right recommendations.

Section 23 (4) states that section 27 applies to the bank and section 23 (5) states that section 27 applies to the bank's representative (even though they are exempted from holding a license)

Section 27 (3d) states:

<DL>

(d) the person suffers loss or damage as a result of doing that act, or refraining from doing that act, as the case may be,
​

</DL>

then, without prejudice to any other remedy available to that person, the licensee is liable to pay damages to that person in respect of that loss or damage.
​

Zombie, can you clarify? The points and counter-points flying around are quite bewildering to the uninitiated. Thanks.

 

[phouse3]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

that's just bullshit... stan chart's risk assessment team took a look at the minibonds and refused to offer them to their customers. what does that tell you about MAS chairman who signed off on the minibonds? there are other banks that did not offer the minibonds as well. why???

... but MAS and DBS looked the other way. and they say no conflict of interest for the ex-head of mas to be sleeping with the head of temasek... yeah right...

Hi,

It's so bloody obvious the person bullshitting is not me.

The minibonds failed because Lehman failed. And Lehman failed because the FED allowed it to fail. Did Standchart expect all these in advance? Did Standchart expect a sub-prime crisis too? Did Standchart expect AIG to fail?Well, not unless they are god.

Yeah. I am an idiot. And any intelligent reader should believe your claim that the ex-head of MAS is sleeping with the head of Temasek and that's the reason they allowed the sale of minibonds. Do you think I should laugh or cry?

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

The points and counter-points flying around are quite bewildering to the uninitiated.

You may refer to the guidelines

http://www.mas.gov.sg/resource/legi...delines_on_Structured_Deposits_Rev_4May06.pdf

16 Some clients may not require any recommendation from a financial
adviser or its representatives on their selection of a structured deposit.

17 A financial adviser and its representative may dispense with the usual
fact-finding and needs-based analysis process when dealing with such
clients. However, appropriate warnings should be made to such clients
highlighting that they may wish to seek advice from a financial adviser
before making a commitment.

At the minimum, the warning should convey
the following message:
“(a) Unlike traditional deposits, structured deposits have an
investment element and returns may vary. You may wish to
seek advice from a licensed or an exempt financial adviser
before making a commitment to purchase this product.
(b) In the event that you choose not to seek advice from a licensed
or an exempt financial adviser, you should carefully consider
whether this product is suitable for you.”

18 These warnings should be in writing and should be prominent and
clear, and a financial adviser and its representative should document that
these warnings have been duly read and understood by the client, and that
the client wishes to proceed after having understood the features of the
product.

So, if there is sufficient risk warning, it is not a must for FA to recommend the right product. And if you signed on their disclaimer forms, largi best. That is why they take care of vulnerable investors first.

 

[kakowi]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

ok, thanks

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Kakowi

Is minibond defined by MAS, as structured deposit?
I assumed yes, though I still have doubt.
I think there is no confirmation yet.

 

[chinkangkor]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

The use of the word 'Deposit' is rather misleading to the public.

 

[kakowi]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

i have no idea...sorry

 

[phouse3]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Putting the HK's story aside.
In Singapore, CASE and Law Minister would agree that class action suit is possible, because there is no law stopping you.

Under the Financial Adviser Act, the banks are exempted from the duty to recommend the right structured deposit products to the customers. This means that the most important common base is missing. That is probably why Glenn Knight said that collective action is difficult.

What you are saying obviously doesn't make any sense at all.

If there is no case because the FIs are immuned under the Financial Adviser Act, it makes no difference whether you sue in a big group or in smaller groups or individually. Have you understood Glenn Knight's proposal?

 

[masgnoeL]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/10/collective-legal-action-approach.html

Check it out. I believe Glenn is trying to minimise legal risk by choosing a "test case". But that test case does not mean it will work for everyone.

Choosing a test case is the right thing to do. Can you imagine how enormous a task it is for a local lawyer to bring a clasee action, not on one bank, but on multiple banks? First, our own lawyers aren't skilled enough in class action. Second, this is not USA. Our judicial system has never seen this type of case before. The normal reaction is to see it off, as fast as it can and bury it into the legal archives, then burn it.

Like it or not, if it goes the way of a class action, I say don't waste your money on Glenn Knight. This case has to be backed by a representative organization, a collective. If not, it has to transform itself into a criminal situation. By the way, I wonder if these Lehman bonds are sold in USA too? Why no investors protest in USA? Is it because it is not sold to retail investors there, but only to institutional investors and accredited investors? Or not at all?

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

The use of the word 'Deposit' is rather misleading to the public.

"Deposit" is defined in the Banking Act.

MAS did insist that all products that are not deposits, to have the word "deposit" removed from all informations pertaining to the products.

But it does not mean that products without the name "deposit", are not deposits.

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

because the FIs are immuned under the Financial Adviser Act,

Don't get me wrong. FIs are not immuned under the FAA.

When I said "banks are exempted from the duty to recommend the right structured deposit products to the customers", I was in fact saying 2 things about section 27.

1) FA section 27 talks about right recommendation only when FA recommends. It does not say that all products sold must be right product. Marketing, advertising and even distributing pamphlets are not recommendations.

2) FA section 27 does not apply across the board. FA need not start off all the sales talks with risk profile analysis, because some products are exempted.

So, even if Minibond is an investment product covered entirely under FAA section 27, there are many loopholes. The bigger the investor group, the more the loopholes.

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Choosing a test case is the right thing to do.

I agree.

 

[miosux]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Hi,

It's so bloody obvious the person bullshitting is not me.

The minibonds failed because Lehman failed. And Lehman failed because the FED allowed it to fail. Did Standchart expect all these in advance? Did Standchart expect a sub-prime crisis too? Did Standchart expect AIG to fail?Well, not unless they are god.

Yeah. I am an idiot. And any intelligent reader should believe your claim that the ex-head of MAS is sleeping with the head of Temasek and that's the reason they allowed the sale of minibonds. Do you think I should laugh or cry?

you called yourself the idiot...

SC and the other banks that didn't get involved with mb looked at it said 'no, we're not going to sell this shit'

MAS looked at it then and said 'yes, all you FIs in s'pore can sell this, even to retail investors in $1000 tranches'

*clap clap clap*

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Today's media: UBS(USA) being sued by US retail customers over Lehman Notes for mis-selling and misrepresentation. I think the total value sold by UBS(USA) was US$1B.

By the way, I wonder if these Lehman bonds are sold in USA too? Why no investors protest in USA? Is it because it is not sold to retail investors there, but only to institutional investors and accredited investors? Or not at all?

 

[cass888]

Re: Tan Kin Lian and Glenn Knight initiate to sue the banks and petition MAS for supp

Today's media: UBS(USA) being sued by US retail customers over Lehman Notes for mis-selling and misrepresentation. I think the total value sold by UBS(USA) was US$1B.

Because only Singaporeans thinks the government owes it to them ot recover money on a risky investment.