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Stallholders in row with Workers Party town council

tanwahp

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Asset
The scaffolding is a logistical problem that some contractor overlooked or failed to deliver on time. There was some breakdown in communication too. Such things happen with all political parties, regardless who is in charge.

AHPETC has the experience, but does experience have absolutely everything to do with timeline? Maybe if we do not stretch it too far. Or we can use the same argument and claim that a normal baker needs 4 hours to bake a cake and an experienced baker of 20 years can bake one in 20 seconds. Probably no one here knows how long it takes to book, transport and secure manpower to set up a scaffolding.
 

Gigo88

Alfrescian
Loyal
NEA is the coordinating agency for the cleaning. I opined that all AHPETC need to ensure that they provide the manpower for the cleaning as per agreement.

GMS smart-ass suggestion that AHPETC should be professional and source for a contractor to do the scaffolding. This may just play into NEA hands. NEA can easily turn around and tell AHPETC that you so smart, next time, you go and do all the cleaning and NEA will lay their hands off all the coordinating work for the cleaning of hawker centres in all the oppositon wards.

Maybe this is what NEA is aiming for as doing good work in an opposition ward is not going to get you any points with your boss (PAP). In fact, you many even get negative points if you do that job well. Our civil servants are supposed to be neutral, but we all know that they will bend over backwards to serve the PAP.

PAP is the government and the government is the PAP, as I have been told. NEA could be just playing dirty politics like some other govt agency.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Here again, the mystery continues... I really wonder why WP AHTC which has employed FMSS which claimed to have over 20 years of experiences in managing TC do no know this .....

Town councils bear scaffolding cost: NEA
Published on May 30, 2013

ALL town councils have always been responsible for paying contractors to erect scaffolding where required to clean hawker centres, the National Environment Agency (NEA) said in a statement last night.

These include walls, fans, lighting-exhaust systems and ceilings which are part of routine spring cleaning.

The agency was responding to a letter by Mr Yeo Soon Fei, deputy general manager of Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council (AHPETC), published in The Straits Times Forum Page yesterday.

Mr Yeo's letter came after a Sunday Times report last week, which said stallholders of two food centres in Bedok claimed they now had to pay for the scaffolding that is erected for the washing, when they never had to in the past.

The two food centres are in Blocks 511 and 538 of Bedok North Street 3, within Aljunied GRC and managed by the AHPETC, run by Workers' Party.

In his letter, Mr Yeo said that AHPETC was informed by NEA that scaffolding would be erected to facilitate the cleaning exercise at Block 538 Bedok Market in March. But "for reasons unknown, the scaffolding was not provided", resulting in the town council's cleaners being unable to carry out the work. Workers' Party chairman Sylvia Lim did not respond to The Sunday Times' query on the scaffolding last week.

JOYCE LIM


NEA is the coordinating agency for the cleaning. I opined that all AHPETC need to ensure that they provide the manpower for the cleaning as per agreement.

GMS smart-ass suggestion that AHPETC should be professional and source for a contractor to do the scaffolding. This may just play into NEA hands. NEA can easily turn around and tell AHPETC that you so smart, next time, you go and do all the cleaning and NEA will lay their hands off all the coordinating work for the cleaning of hawker centres in all the oppositon wards.

Maybe this is what NEA is aiming for as doing good work in an opposition ward is not going to get you any points with your boss (PAP). In fact, you many even get negative points if you do that job well. Our civil servants are supposed to be neutral, but we all know that they will bend over backwards to serve the PAP.

PAP is the government and the government is the PAP, as I have been told. NEA could be just playing dirty politics like some other govt agency.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
I guess the so call "smartass" lies in AHTC. :smile:

It is either WP has not been cleaning those places high up there for decades or that it made hawkers and stallholders to pay for it... you choose. If it has been doing all these in the past, setting up scaffolding to do the cleaning, why should it expect the hawkers to pay and provide the scaffolding this time round?

That's so much professionalism here... I guess.


Goh Meng Seng
 

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
Town councils bear scaffolding cost: NEA
Published on May 30, 2013

ALL town councils have always been responsible for paying contractors to erect scaffolding where required to clean hawker centres, the National Environment Agency (NEA) said in a statement last night....

I have a question, why NEA does not threaten to sue Yeo for saying NEA informed him/AHPETC that the hawker association would handle the scaffolding?

Or NEA actually said that but the hawker association last min play punk to sabo both NEA and AHPETC?

I think now we just need 1 more press release from this mysterious hawker association.........
 

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
I guess the so call "smartass" lies in AHTC. :smile:

It is either WP has not been cleaning those places high up there for decades or that it made hawkers and stallholders to pay for it... you choose.

You so smart can only come up with just 2 possibilities? I so stupid also can come up with a few more.......

I think you have very low opinion of hawkers. Besides being rejected by WP, you also rejected by hawkers? Anyway:-
a) WP has not been cleaning those places high up there for decades
and the hawkers only now then realize the ceiling is starting to look dirty......

b) it made hawkers and stallholders to pay for it
and the hawkers only now then realize it is their $$............
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I have a question, why NEA does not threaten to sue Yeo for saying NEA informed him/AHPETC that the hawker association would handle the scaffolding?

Or NEA actually said that but the hawker association last min play punk to sabo both NEA and AHPETC?

I think now we just need 1 more press release from this mysterious hawker association.........

The mysterious hands of the PAP will be revealed ...behind the NEA and the mysterious hawker association.
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It is either WP has not been cleaning those places high up there for decades or that it made hawkers and stallholders to pay for it... you choose. If it has been doing all these in the past, setting up scaffolding to do the cleaning, why should it expect the hawkers to pay and provide the scaffolding this time round?

Harban Goh, I didn't know that the WP has been running the TC for decades.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
I suppose by yr logic, WP must be so prescient, so able to read the minds of and shld guess what every govt ministry dept is supposed to be doing and doing it, and take on everyone's task. So if WP is unprofessional, what do you say abt NEA for failing to come upfront with the issue in the first place? Unethical and dishonest? Pretty crafty and dishonest of NEA to keep mum all this time while you were firing away at WP! NEA is using you as a pawn and a cat's paw. And I never heard you make any comment or admonish NEA for failing in their job.

With you, WP is as good as damned if you do and damned if you dont. When you are overwhelmed with emotions in your hearts, there will be nothing left in your mind, least reasoning... thus blind.

You are being subjective here.

I didn't attack WP wrongly and I am consistent in upholding my principles. It looks "wrong" to you because you have taken side. WP is unprofessional. Any professional service and solution provider will always be there to solve problems, not to push blame later. AHTC didn't contact the hawkers at first instance when they found that there wasn't scaffolding provided... which I cannot figure out why should hawkers need to provide scaffolding to contractors who are supposedly to be professional in getting such equipment in the first place.

The fact is, they just left the job undone....happily and put the blame on the hawkers. That's totally unprofessional behavior no matter how you see it.

When you are overwhelmed with emotions in your hearts, there will be nothing left in your mind, least reasoning... thus blind.


Goh Meng Seng
 
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SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
http://therealsingapore.com/content...y-not-paying-contractors-clean-hawker-centres
NEA BLAMES WORKERS PARTY FOR NOT PAYING CONTRACTORS TO CLEAN HAWKER CENTRES
NEA

The National Environment Agency (NEA) said all town councils have always been responsible for paying contractors to erect scaffolding where required to clean walls, fans, lighting exhaust systems, and ceilings of hawker centres as a routine part of spring cleaning.

It added that the town councils would have to coordinate with the hawkers on the schedule of the cleaning exercise.

NEA said there should be no additional charges as the town councils have already collected Service and Conservancy Charges from the hawkers.

NEA said Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council was reminded of this point at several occasions, including the most recent meeting in April 2013 involving the Town Council, Hawker Association and NEA.

It added that Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council should fulfil its statutory duties in safeguarding the hygiene and health of the patrons of the hawker centres under its charge.



Below is influential blogger Leong Sze Hian's take on the issue:

I refer to the article “NEA says town councils responsible for paying contractors to erect scaffolding” (Channel NewsAsia, May 30).

NEA says town council’s responsibility?

It states that “The National Environment Agency (NEA) said all town councils have always been responsible for paying contractors to erect scaffolding where required to clean walls, fans, lighting exhaust systems, and ceilings of hawker centres as a routine part of spring cleaning.”

AHPETC says NEA said hawkers’ association’s responsibility?

In contrast, the Deputy General Manager of Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council said in its reply “Food centre cleaning: Town council replies” (Straits Times forum, May 29) that “WITH regard to the cleaning exercise at the Block 538 Bedok North market in March, it was the National Environment Agency (NEA), the coordinating agency, that informed us in February that the hawker association would be making the necessary arrangements for the scaffolding to clean the high areas (“Stallholders in row with WP town council“ Sunday)”.

Who to believe?

So, who do we believe – NEA or AHPETC?

Since “it was the National Environment Agency (NEA), the coordinating agency, that informed us in February that the hawker association would be making the necessary arrangements for the scaffolding to clean the high areas”, I would like to suggest that AHPETC provide more information – was it in writing and if so produce the document – if it was oral, who told you? – was it at a meeting, telephone conversation, etc?

As to “NEA said there should be no additional charges as the town councils have already collected Service and Conservancy Charges from the hawkers, what AHPETC said is totally different – “We stress that at no point in time did any of our authorised personnel advise hawkers or anyone that there would be additional charges imposed by the town council on the hawkers for the cleaning”.

So, for the sake of clarity, why not produce the evidence as to who said it (if any since AHPETC said it wasn’t anybody authorised by them) – was it in writing, oral by whom, etc?

In this connection, the Straits Times article “Stallholders in row with WP town council” said “Stallholders said they were informed they had to pay for the scaffolding that is erected for the washing, but said they never had to in the past”.

So, who was the source of the above statement – stallholders’ association, some stallholders, a stallholder – now that AHPETC says that there was no such thing?

Media protocol?

As a matter of protocol and courtesy, the NEA should reply to the AHPETC’s letter through the Straits Times forum, instead of only through the Straits Times article (“Town councils bear scaffolding cost: NEA, May 30) and Channel NewsAsia.

Anyone who reads the Straits Times forum (which is free online) may not read the Straits Times proper (must pay) or may not read CNA (which is free), and vice versa. That’s why media protocol is as I understand it so well established and practised universally. Otherwise, some readers may be left “hanging in the air” with just “half the story” or arguably just one side of the story.

So, how did the above happen?

One-sided story?

Well, we can only speculate as concerned citizens and if I may add – as a resident of Serangoon Gardens, which is in AHPETC, I must say that I am not very happy because anyone who reads the NEA’s side of the story in CNA without having read AHPETC’s side of the story in the Straits Times forum of 29 May or its subsequent article on 30 May- may get the impression that we (the residents) live in a town council that is “stupid”, “incompetent”, or something. (By the way, these have been the sort of comments that I have been hearing in “coffee shop” talk and national conversation”)

NEA work with town council?

Aren’t Government agencies supposed to work with town councils? Why doesn’t the NEA and AHPETC get together (maybe at the same time with the press) and come out with more meaningful statements, instead of this “tit for tat” quarrel across different channels?

This is akin to 2 boxers throwing punches at each other, but in 2 different boxing rings.

Is such behaviour in the interest of residents and Singaporeans?

How come one-sided story?

This is what puzzles me most and I cannot understand – since the story “Stallholders in row with WP town council” came out in the Straits Times of 26 May, why did the NEA make its subject controversial statement to CNA whose report makes no mention of what AHPETC said (which is totally different from the NEA’s version)?

In other words, the CNA report only carries one side of the story – the NEA one.

Arguably, CNA may have been sloppy and could have done a more thorough news report – unless CNA doesn’t read the Straits Times (granted that they are in a way competitors). Because if it had read AHPETC’s reply to the Straits Times the day before CNA published the NEA’s press statement – why didn’t it say anything at all about what AHPETC had clarified?

Or could it be that the NEA’s press statement to CNA made no mention that it was in response to AHPETC’s reply to the Straits Times forum, or did CNA omit this very important part?

Is this in the interest of readers and Singaporeans who rely on the media to tell us what’s happening around us everyday?

Why we need social media?

Maybe, arguably – that’s why social media may play such an important role, particularly in Singapore which has a press freedom ranking of 149th (which may be stifled by the new MDA licensing rules and the $50,000 performance bond).

In any case, the Straits Times arguably did a much better job at reporting than CNA, because its report did carry the AHPETC’s clarification to what the NEA said.

AIM reporting?

The media reporting of the AIM saga is a good example to note – that good and fair reporting requires both sides of the story to be told – and not have reports that is a repetition of one side of the story without sufficient mention of the other side’s story that has already been clarified earlier.

As analogy, if I say where’s the missing million today and tomorrow the other side explains why there is no missing million, it may not be fair for me to run another story the following day about another person who is asking about the missing million without sufficient mention of the earlier “no missing million” clarification.

Need abundance of media?

The reality may be that a lot of people may just read the headlines and form an impression or perception – that’s why an abundance of media, both mainstream and social media is so important, particularly in Singapore.

May be NEA & AHPETC weren’t speaking the same language (English) in their meetings?

With regard to “NEA said Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council was reminded of this point at several occasions, including the most recent meeting in April 2013 involving the Town Council, Hawker Association and NEA – were any minutes taken at these meetings? If so, can the minutes be made public?

Well done! NEA

In respect of “It added that Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council should fulfil its statutory duties in safeguarding the hygiene and health of the patrons of the hawker centres under its charge” - To my living memory, I do not recall the NEA having ever taken any town councils to task over a ”Town Council should fulfil its statutory duties”. So, well done NEA – you are arguably, finally appearing to be doing a great job, at least from the perspective of historical statistical occurence.

*The author blogs at www.leongszehian.com
 

tate

Alfrescian
Loyal
[h=1]NEA sends Aljunied town council reminder on cleaning of common areas[/h]
ST_20130601_JYCLEAN01_3684717e.jpg

Stallholders at three food markets and centres in Aljunied GRC, including Block 511’s centre in Bedok North Street 3 (above), said they were told to pay for erection of scaffolding to clean high areas. NEA said town councils must bear the costs of cleaning, including the erection of scaffolding. -- ST PHOTOS: AZIZ HUSSIN

By Joyce Lim

THE National Environment Agency (NEA) has sent a formal notice to Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council (AHPETC), reminding it of its legal obligations, after it failed to do a thorough cleaning of a market and food centre in Bedok.

The advisory issued yesterday to the Workers' Party (WP)-led town council stated that under Section 18 (1) of the Town Councils Act, town councils are responsible for the maintenance and cleanliness of all common property, including markets and hawker centres.

It noted that since the 2003 Sars outbreak, all town councils have been expected to do spring cleaning of Housing Board-owned markets and hawker centres under their charge.

The NEA, which has had a coordinating role in the spring cleaning of these hawker centres since 2004, said town councils must "carry out a thorough cleaning" of all common areas including drains, columns, floors and fans. "The ceilings, beams and exhaust ducts are to be cleaned at least once a year during major spring cleanings," said the NEA note, released to the media.
 

tate

Alfrescian
Loyal
THE National Environment Agency (NEA) has sent a formal notice to Aljunied-Hougang-Punggol East Town Council (AHPETC), reminding it of its legal obligations, after it failed to do a thorough cleaning of a market and food centre in Bedok.

This could have been avoided by AHPETC. Maybe some heads will roll in AHPETC? Hope they learn some valuable lessons..
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
NEA has avoided clarifying if they (or one of their junior staff) had indeed mis-informed AHPETC that they or the hawkers had taken care of the scaffolding.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Lies have been told and money is involved in the AHTC - Hawker Centre saga. AHTC claimed that no authorized persons from AHTC has told hawkers that they need to pay extra for scaffolding or washing of ceiling but hawkers in Hougang ST 21 claimed that they have been told to pay for the scaffolding else the contractors won't clean anything above 2.5m.

So, someone must be lying and money is involved. If the one who told the hawkers about paying for the scaffolding is not from AHTC, then who is he from? The contractor? NEA? This needs some investigation and we should get to the bottom of it. If it is told by AHTC staff (authorized or otherwise), then AHTC should take action against its staff or it he or she is autorized personal, then AHTC will have to apologize. If it is told by the contractor in the bid to save cost by passing the cost to the hawkers, then the contractor should be taken to task and banned from future work or contract. If it is by NEA, then NEA will have a lot of things to explain..... Just get to the bottom of it.

People who have done no wrong, will have absolutely nothing to fear... whether it is public investigation or interrogation.

Goh Meng Seng
 

DEDEER

Alfrescian
Loyal
Goh meng seng pap dog

Still waiting for your explanation and apology for the 5% tan kin kian fiasco.
 
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scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Why are you losing sleep over a small tiff that is petty politics.

NEA despite being part of the public service did everything except answer a simple question. Did they or did they not tell tell the TC that the scaffolding will be provided.

We are talking about public servants whose salary comes from tax payers.

I can tell you now that East Coast is a goner with all these bullying tactics.

Lies have been told and money is involved in the AHTC - Hawker Centre saga. AHTC claimed that no authorized persons from AHTC has told hawkers that they need to pay extra for scaffolding or washing of ceiling but hawkers in Hougang ST 21 claimed that they have been told to pay for the scaffolding else the contractors won't clean anything above 2.5m.

People who have done no wrong, will have absolutely nothing to fear... whether it is public investigation or interrogation.

Goh Meng Seng
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Aiyah, most people understand that the TC slipped. They have enough experience to have got something in writing. Sure they will lose some brownie points but I am also sure that the NEA despite its coordinating role also screwed it up.

And more importantly refused to answer the question about what they said to the TC about provision of scaffolding.

This could have been avoided by AHPETC. Maybe some heads will roll in AHPETC? Hope they learn some valuable lessons..
 

DEDEER

Alfrescian
Loyal
Goh Meng Seng aka PAp attack dog

Your ANALysis & expertist on the below listed are highly appreciated. No one is more qualified then you to give advice :

1) How to turn even the most hardcore opposition away

2) How to lose every election you participate

3) How to lose your election deposit

4) How to act yaya even though you have been wrong many times in your ANALysis

5) How to look like 60s when you are in your 40s.
 

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
Lies have been told and money is involved in the AHTC - Hawker Centre saga. AHTC claimed that no authorized persons from AHTC has told hawkers that they need to pay extra for scaffolding or washing of ceiling but hawkers in Hougang ST 21 claimed that they have been told to pay for the scaffolding else the contractors won't clean anything above 2.5m.

So, someone must be lying and money is involved. If the one who told the hawkers about paying for the scaffolding is not from AHTC, then who is he from? The contractor? NEA? This needs some investigation and we should get to the bottom of it. If it is told by AHTC staff (authorized or otherwise), then AHTC should take action against its staff or it he or she is autorized personal, then AHTC will have to apologize. If it is told by the contractor in the bid to save cost by passing the cost to the hawkers, then the contractor should be taken to task and banned from future work or contract. If it is by NEA, then NEA will have a lot of things to explain..... Just get to the bottom of it.

Did I miss something?

I thought somebody was so confident, so sure, so full of himself that AHPETC is the one that is unprofessional?

===EDIT===
But now so many "if"?
 
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