[Singapore Video] - Fight between older man and younger man

[nightsafari]

Sinkie or asiatic fighting is usually a joke because for years, asiatic tv have ridiculed boxing and other forms of practical street fighting. Asiatic tv boast how great their gongfu is, with all their chi and flying acrobatic, and how shitty boxing and wrestling is because the westerners know nothing about chi, or can't do somersaults or don't give out black belts.

If asians stopped wasting their time on flashy asiatic martial arts and started doing more basic boxing, we would be seeing more KOs with one or two punches as shown in the video below. No need for flashy but useless wing chun gatling punches that hurt a bit but doesn't deliver KOs most of the time.

that is a solid point. But I wonder if it's deeper than that? How sports and physical prowess is so under-emphasized here for instance.

 

[JohnTan]

that is a solid point. But I wonder if it's deeper than that? How sports and physical prowess is so under-emphasized here for instance.

Good Fighting is simply fighting - fast, effective and efficient, regardless its origin in the East or West. I suspect that many years ago, asiatic martial arts were as straightfoward as boxing and wrestling. Asiatic martial arts likely declined over the years when dance moves were incorporated into it for aesthetics or because political leaders clamped down on martial arts to reduce armed rebellion.

Shaolin is trying to regain some of their past effective fighting by getting their fighters to do more Sanda sparring. But it's still not on the same level as boxing or MMA yet.

 

[nightsafari]

Good Fighting is simply fighting - fast, effective and efficient, regardless its origin in the East or West. I suspect that many years ago, asiatic martial arts were as straightfoward as boxing and wrestling. Asiatic martial arts likely declined over the years when dance moves were incorporated into it for aesthetics or because political leaders clamped down on martial arts to reduce armed rebellion.

Shaolin is trying to regain some of their past effective fighting by getting their fighters to do more Sanda sparring. But it's still not on the same level as boxing or MMA yet.

hmm... maybe they got more showy to impress and attract potential students and sponsors to the school? I mean after all, it probably wasn't the best fighting that attracted most students, it was the best show the school can put on.

 

[JohnTan]

that is a solid point. But I wonder if it's deeper than that? How sports and physical prowess is so under-emphasized here for instance.

Physical prowess does play an important role in martial arts. A lot of times, fighting can spiral into brawling and shoving. A fighter who is physically stronger, has the advantage. In chink martial arts shows, old people in their 70s are often portrayed as the most highly skilled fighters because of some chi. Kids grow up watching such shows actually start to believe that physical condition plays very little role in martial arts.

And they learn how wrong they are in a road rage brawl with some guy who can't box but can still beat them up simply because of physical size difference.

 

[nightsafari]

Physical prowess does play an important role in martial arts. A lot of times, fighting can spiral into brawling and shoving. A fighter who is physically stronger, has the advantage. In chink martial arts shows, old people in their 70s are often portrayed as the most highly skilled fighters because of some chi. Kids grow up watching such shows actually start to believe that physical condition plays very little role in martial arts.

And they learn how wrong they are in a road rage brawl with some guy who can't box but can still beat them up simply because of physical size difference.

that's true.

 

[countryman]

Physical prowess does play an important role in martial arts. A lot of times, fighting can spiral into brawling and shoving. A fighter who is physically stronger, has the advantage. In chink martial arts shows, old people in their 70s are often portrayed as the most highly skilled fighters because of some chi. Kids grow up watching such shows actually start to believe that physical condition plays very little role in martial arts.

And they learn how wrong they are in a road rage brawl with some guy who can't box but can still beat them up simply because of physical size difference.

The only way for smaller size guys to win a fight over much bigger opponents is to attack the vital points eg: temple area, just above upper lip, otherwise like u said 90% the bigger guy will win.

 

[JohnTan]

The only way for smaller size guys to win a fight over much bigger opponents is to attack the vital points eg: temple area, just above upper lip, otherwise like u said 90% the bigger guy will win.

Yes you're right. Striking the vital spots can end a fight easily. However, vital spots, including groin area, are small and are surprisingly not easy targets.

Most people, who are unfamiliar with boxing, tend to punch other people in the chest area or cheek area. That's because those are big targets.

The KO area is actually at the lower left corner or lower right corner of your jaw. Use the hard bottom part of your palm, and strike firmly but lightly at the lower right corner of your jaw. You'll feel a slight jarring sensation all the way up to your brain. If that was an average punch instead, it would be a KO blow. That's why in boxing stance, the back fist should be raised high enough to protect that jaw area.

The black guy on the right is how most sinkies and untrained boxers stand, with both hands lowered, and the jaw unprotected. It's an open invitation for a KO shot at the jaw.

Another negative example is the common TKD fighting stance, with both hands lowered to the chest level. It happens because of bad training habits, or fatigue leading to standing naturally in a lazy method, which is a sign of bad regular training. A number of TKD sparring ends with one side getting kicked in the head. TKD sparrers usually aren't worried about getting punched because both parties are equally unfamiliar with proper boxing and punching techniques. Their sparring opponent will usually step back to launch a kick, or simply punch them in the chest like an beginner.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Yes you're right. Striking the vital spots can end a fight easily. However, vital spots, including groin area, are small and are surprisingly not easy targets.

Most people, who are unfamiliar with boxing, tend to punch other people in the chest area or cheek area. That's because those are big targets.

The KO area is actually at the lower left corner or lower right corner of your jaw. Use the hard bottom part of your palm, and strike firmly but lightly at the lower right corner of your jaw. You'll feel a slight jarring sensation all the way up to your brain. If that was an average punch instead, it would be a KO blow. That's why in boxing stance, the back fist should be raised high enough to protect that jaw area.

View attachment 128529

The black guy on the right is how most sinkies and untrained boxers stand, with both hands lowered, and the jaw unprotected. It's an open invitation for a KO shot at the jaw.

View attachment 128530

Another negative example is the common TKD fighting stance, with both hands lowered to the chest level. It happens because of bad training habits, or fatigue leading to standing naturally in a lazy method, which is a sign of bad regular training. A number of TKD sparring ends with one side getting kicked in the head. TKD sparrers usually aren't worried about getting punched because both parties are equally unfamiliar with proper boxing and punching techniques. Their sparring opponent will usually step back to launch a kick, or simply punch them in the chest like an beginner.


View attachment 128531

Wow you are obviously a grand master

Can I sign up for self defense classes at your RC?

 

[JohnTan]

that's true.

The only way for smaller size guys to win a fight over much bigger opponents is to attack the vital points eg: temple area, just above upper lip, otherwise like u said 90% the bigger guy will win.

I was looking again at the fight. From this screenshot, the younger man was already in a better self defense position. Both his hands are up and very close to his own face/head area. It's a much better position to protect himself from getting punched in the face and also to punch back if needed. His hand positions, be it by luck or skill, is in a natural position to defend or attack or just getting the attacker to back off. It's far better than the silly postures of traditional martial artists like Ip Man or Wong Fei Hung movies.

The old fart may look more aggressive, but his left hand is way below his head, so there's no defense for his own head. And his right hand is telegraphing his punch.

 

[JohnTan]

Wow you are obviously a grand master

Can I sign up for self defense classes at your RC?

You can sign up for the basics at your nearest CC. The advanced classes are for grassroots leaders only. We need an ace up our sleeves if we get attacked by oppies who are bigger than us. I've trained some of the aunties at my RC to subdue big size oppies if they try to hinder us in our grassroots outreach in Hougang and Aljunied.

 

[LexLuthor]

My guess is the old uncle did not have the physical means to defend because his immunity has been compromised after having 3 jabs.

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

There is no need for overkill.
Once the guy slipped, young guy can just walk away.
He was already beaten up pretty bad.

show no mercy to mudslimes

 

[nightsafari]

Yes you're right. Striking the vital spots can end a fight easily. However, vital spots, including groin area, are small and are surprisingly not easy targets.

Most people, who are unfamiliar with boxing, tend to punch other people in the chest area or cheek area. That's because those are big targets.

The KO area is actually at the lower left corner or lower right corner of your jaw. Use the hard bottom part of your palm, and strike firmly but lightly at the lower right corner of your jaw. You'll feel a slight jarring sensation all the way up to your brain. If that was an average punch instead, it would be a KO blow. That's why in boxing stance, the back fist should be raised high enough to protect that jaw area.

View attachment 128529

The black guy on the right is how most sinkies and untrained boxers stand, with both hands lowered, and the jaw unprotected. It's an open invitation for a KO shot at the jaw.

View attachment 128530

Another negative example is the common TKD fighting stance, with both hands lowered to the chest level. It happens because of bad training habits, or fatigue leading to standing naturally in a lazy method, which is a sign of bad regular training. A number of TKD sparring ends with one side getting kicked in the head. TKD sparrers usually aren't worried about getting punched because both parties are equally unfamiliar with proper boxing and punching techniques. Their sparring opponent will usually step back to launch a kick, or simply punch them in the chest like an beginner.


View attachment 128531

no dispute for most of it. except the TKD stance is intentional.

Scoring in TKD is a narrow box from shoulders down to the belt. No head shots. So the hands are lowered to protect the scoring area.

Of course this is absolute garbage in the real world where a happy head shot is a fair target.

but I am surprised that you know this. I didn't know the food catering business required such knowledge.

 

[Rogue Trader]

View attachment 128533

I was looking again at the fight. From this screenshot, the younger man was already in a better self defense position. Both his hands are up and very close to his own face/head area. It's a much better position to protect himself from getting punched in the face and also to punch back if needed. His hand positions, be it by luck or skill, is in a natural position to defend or attack or just getting the attacker to back off. It's far better than the silly postures of traditional martial artists like Ip Man or Wong Fei Hung movies.

The old fart may look more aggressive, but his left hand is way below his head, so there's no defense for his own head. And his right hand is telegraphing his punch.

Amazing. UFC should invite you to be the fight analyst and commentator like Joe Rogan

 

[JohnTan]

no dispute for most of it. except the TKD stance is intentional.

Scoring in TKD is a narrow box from shoulders down to the belt. No head shots. So the hands are lowered to protect the scoring area.

If the TKD stance is intentional, then the stance is wrongly taught. It's always important to keep your guard up to guard your head.

Head shots in TKD used to be allowed. Singapore TKD kinda banned it after some teen got kicked in the head back in 2010 and died shortly.

Sun, Apr 18, 2010
The Straits Times

THE president of the Singapore Taekwondo Gymnasium (STG), Dr Stephen Koh Chee Liang, found nothing wrong with the kick which floored 17-year-old Vincent Tan Sze Hao, who later died.

In fact, it was a 'rather light high kick' to the left side of Vincent's head, Dr Koh said during a coroner's inquiry into the youth's death.

But that kick from his 15-year-old opponent caused Vincent to collapse onto the mat during a tournament last July.

He died four days later from severe head injuries.

At yesterday's inquest, a two-minute video of the bout was played in court.

Vincent, who weighed 97.3kg and stood at 1.7m, was seen sparring with his opponent, who weighed in about 24kg lighter and was 1.64m tall.

Vincent's widowed mother Nur Julia-Tan, a hawker, could not bear to watch the video and left the courtroom when it was played.

His sister Dwie Indah-Tan, 25, stayed behind with Mr Sunil Sudheesan, who is representing the Indonesian Chinese family together with Mr Subhas Anandan, to watch the video.

After watching the video, Dr Koh, 69, told the court that he did not think there was anything wrong with the kick: 'I have been in the STG for many years and I have seen much worse scenarios.'

Since Vincent's death, all taekwondo tournaments have been called off, said Dr Koh.

Vincent, who held a blue belt, was sparring with an opponent holding a brown belt, which is one level of expertise above blue.

Dr Koh said that since the death, he has suggested to the People's Association that only holders of the black belt - the highest level in taekwondo - can spar with one another during tournaments.

In future, the organisers of any tournament must ensure that an ambulance is on standby to take any injured person to hospital, he added.

He also said that the STG has barred those below the age of 18 from engaging in head kicks during tournaments, with effect from Sept 9 last year. Previously, taekwondo competitors aged 15 and above were allowed to kick at the head.

https://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20100416-210800.html

but I am surprised that you know this. I didn't know the food catering business required such knowledge.

Grassroots work is dangerous and self defence skills come in handy. Back in the 1960s, grassroots leaders faced physical threats from Communists and Indon special forces. Today, we face similar threats from oppies and their bengs.

 

[nightsafari]

If the TKD stance is intentional, then the stance is wrongly taught. It's always important to keep your guard up to guard your head.

Head shots in TKD used to be allowed. Singapore TKD kinda banned it after some teen got kicked in the head back in 2010 and died shortly.

View attachment 128555

Sun, Apr 18, 2010
The Straits Times

THE president of the Singapore Taekwondo Gymnasium (STG), Dr Stephen Koh Chee Liang, found nothing wrong with the kick which floored 17-year-old Vincent Tan Sze Hao, who later died.

In fact, it was a 'rather light high kick' to the left side of Vincent's head, Dr Koh said during a coroner's inquiry into the youth's death.

But that kick from his 15-year-old opponent caused Vincent to collapse onto the mat during a tournament last July.

He died four days later from severe head injuries.

At yesterday's inquest, a two-minute video of the bout was played in court.

Vincent, who weighed 97.3kg and stood at 1.7m, was seen sparring with his opponent, who weighed in about 24kg lighter and was 1.64m tall.

Vincent's widowed mother Nur Julia-Tan, a hawker, could not bear to watch the video and left the courtroom when it was played.

His sister Dwie Indah-Tan, 25, stayed behind with Mr Sunil Sudheesan, who is representing the Indonesian Chinese family together with Mr Subhas Anandan, to watch the video.

After watching the video, Dr Koh, 69, told the court that he did not think there was anything wrong with the kick: 'I have been in the STG for many years and I have seen much worse scenarios.'

Since Vincent's death, all taekwondo tournaments have been called off, said Dr Koh.

Vincent, who held a blue belt, was sparring with an opponent holding a brown belt, which is one level of expertise above blue.

Dr Koh said that since the death, he has suggested to the People's Association that only holders of the black belt - the highest level in taekwondo - can spar with one another during tournaments.

In future, the organisers of any tournament must ensure that an ambulance is on standby to take any injured person to hospital, he added.

He also said that the STG has barred those below the age of 18 from engaging in head kicks during tournaments, with effect from Sept 9 last year. Previously, taekwondo competitors aged 15 and above were allowed to kick at the head.

https://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20100416-210800.html



Grassroots work is dangerous and self defence skills come in handy. Back in the 1960s, grassroots leaders faced physical threats from Communists and Indon special forces. Today, we face similar threats from oppies and their bengs.

the whole thing is centred around legal and illegal hits. In TKD in practiced in most of the Western-centric world, no kick to the head is allowed in any form. Demos and exhibitions are of course where they show off those kicks. There's also the 1 hit at a time thing that TKD assumes is how the fight works. All strikes and blocks are 1 for 1. So a TKD kick also has the equivalent TKD block. So in TKD theory, that guard is actually the scripted guard for a scripted kick. Of course the real world is hardly so neat.

I didn't see how that kid died, but it seems pretty obvious it was from the fall and not from the kick. Of course, a head kick tends to put the recipient in a fall in a head first position.

 

[Balls2U]

the whole thing is centred around legal and illegal hits. In TKD in practiced in most of the Western-centric world, no kick to the head is allowed in any form. Demos and exhibitions are of course where they show off those kicks. There's also the 1 hit at a time thing that TKD assumes is how the fight works. All strikes and blocks are 1 for 1. So a TKD kick also has the equivalent TKD block. So in TKD theory, that guard is actually the scripted guard for a scripted kick. Of course the real world is hardly so neat.

I didn't see how that kid died, but it seems pretty obvious it was from the fall and not from the kick. Of course, a head kick tends to put the recipient in a fall in a head first position.

No wonder I found the sparring at the Olympic games quite strange. You kick once, and I kick you back. Like pussies sparring. During my time, we can execute multiple kicks, slamming kicks to the head and face, jumping back thrusts etc. The Koreans were really good at that time. I remember attending a boot camp session under some Korean master. Damn siong.

 

[JohnTan]

Amazing. UFC should invite you to be the fight analyst and commentator like Joe Rogan

I could do a great colour commentary like those people in the WWE or soccer.

 

[nightsafari]

No wonder I found the sparring at the Olympic games quite strange. You kick once, and I kick you back. Like pussies sparring. During my time, we can execute multiple kicks, slamming kicks to the head and face, jumping back thrusts etc. The Koreans were really good at that time. I remember attending a boot camp session under some Korean master. Damn siong.

Ah yes, jumping back thrust.

I'm willing to bet that you were doing this pre-1990 yes? In 1980, the Olympics committee recognized TKD as an olympic sport. Guess what? Everyone and his dog sought to make the martial art into some pathway to Olympics. So the martial art itself changed from kick everyone's ass to score 1 point.

I'm not entirely sure of the whole politics of the thing, but I do know that at some point the WTF became more prominent than the ITF. It's my understanding that the ITF is older and more "hard" and the WTF is the pussified version we tend to see today.

At the boot camp did you ever get the master's take on how to take kicks? Blocks with hands seem to be relatively useless. For myself, it's largely been to siam. I wonder what a grandmaster's insight would be on this.

 

[nightsafari]

I could do a great colour commentary like those people in the WWE or soccer.

Maybe do some livecast on SBF.