Rental and Resale (All about Rental and Resale prices in Iskandar)

[Tekkun]

I don’t think everyone is feeling negative about JB properties though for sure there are those who are. And this is the group of people who are thinking of cut and run. There is a need to discuss the repercussions of cut and run because apparently not everyone is fully apprised of what it really means. At least I don’t. For example, I didn’t know I have to pay back the 20% rebate the developer give off the SPA price. That’s RM150K I need to cough up immediately if I decide to back out. Sure die one. Unless someone with $2.6m don’t mind giving away money to bail me out? It’s just a mere fraction, chicken feed to him…. but elephant feet to me.:(

Note that "cut and run", over supply, downturns are all different subjects. Times maybe good but one can cut and run too. Not necessarily it will happen. It is just a what ifs situation.

 

[Tekkun]

Thanks for your well wishes! I really hope what we wish in our plans will come to pass. It has been a good ride so far for us. Believe it or not, it just occurred to me moments ago that back in Singapore we were living in second hand resale HDB and driving a second hand OPC but over in JB it's new property and new car. Yes, we did make some calculated moves but mostly took each step by faith. I can think of many things that could have gone wrong, most critical being unapproved housing loan or a low margin of finance. So I am thankful that we could clear these hurdles as everything needed to work together nicely. Had the bank approved a low margin of finance then I would not be able to raise a bigger downpayment in the time period given. Die there and then liao.

A guy who is aware of his risks is anytime better than those who do not know. At least he knows how to plan and made informed decisions.
So no worries...just don't drive through muddy water for you may never know an uncovered manhole is waiting for its victim. You should be alright.

 

[Tekkun]

CROSS-BORDER JURISDICTION AND ASSISTANCE IN INSOLVENCY: THE POSITION IN MALAYSIA AND SINGAPORE

Bankruptcy

In Malaysia, the successor provision is now contained within bankruptcy legislation and deals with the reciprocal recognition and enforcement of bankruptcy judgments and orders of other countries. The reconsolidation of bankruptcy law in Singapore in 1995 saw the re-enactment of the corresponding provision with some textual amendments.

154 The sections are principally designed to ensure close cooperation between Singapore and Malaysian courts, given the close historical links between the two countries as they permit the mutual recognition of acts by the Official Assignee without further formality.

155 The sections permit the High Court of each jurisdiction to act in aid of and be auxiliary to the courts of the other jurisdiction as well as the courts of any other designated country with jurisdiction in bankruptcy and insolvency matters, provided that these courts are required to act in aid of and be auxiliary to the courts in either Malaysia or Singapore.

156 Countries may be designated by the respective authorities through notification in the official Gazette of Malaysia or Singapore.

157An order of any such court seeking aid through a request to the High Court is deemed sufficient to allow the High Court to exercise jurisdiction in respect of the matter

 

[sgtsk]

Few possibilities, I really don't know. Could be:

1. Loans are not required and therefore the S&P is not stamped, it is transfer booking at deposit taking level for a fee.
2. There's a reassignment clause in the S&P and it is not considered as a standard Government controlled housing S&P Agreement.
3. Malaysian Government controls only housing S&P, commercial ones are out of its jurisdiction.
4. Chinese developers came in as master developers and given freedom space in marketing and selling their properties. I read it somewhere they were even given duty free status for materials used for these projects.

Some management or staff of developer company book units by writing checks which the accountant just locks up in the safe. These type of units could conveniently be let go.

 

[Tekkun]

Some management or staff of developer company book units by writing checks which the accountant just locks up in the safe. These type of units could conveniently be let go.

Normal trick. I myself had done the same with some sales people in the past.
Made some kopi money in the process.
Those were the days...2010

 

[xebay11]

CROSS-BORDER JURISDICTION AND ASSISTANCE IN INSOLVENCY: THE POSITION IN MALAYSIA AND SINGAPORE

Bankruptcy

In Malaysia, the successor provision is now contained within bankruptcy legislation and deals with the reciprocal recognition and enforcement of bankruptcy judgments and orders of other countries. The reconsolidation of bankruptcy law in Singapore in 1995 saw the re-enactment of the corresponding provision with some textual amendments.

154 The sections are principally designed to ensure close cooperation between Singapore and Malaysian courts, given the close historical links between the two countries as they permit the mutual recognition of acts by the Official Assignee without further formality.

155 The sections permit the High Court of each jurisdiction to act in aid of and be auxiliary to the courts of the other jurisdiction as well as the courts of any other designated country with jurisdiction in bankruptcy and insolvency matters, provided that these courts are required to act in aid of and be auxiliary to the courts in either Malaysia or Singapore.

156 Countries may be designated by the respective authorities through notification in the official Gazette of Malaysia or Singapore.

157An order of any such court seeking aid through a request to the High Court is deemed sufficient to allow the High Court to exercise jurisdiction in respect of the matter

Any examples of this actually happening?

 

[rotikok]

Last time Johor property discussions were super optimistic, rental surely can get, prices sure go up....no need and no room to discuss about what happens if it does not.... last time was, impossible to happen

No la....few years back i brought out the concern about hard to get rental. Back then ppl were too allure by paper gain on ppty price psf because subsequent later project all priced higher psf price. This bought into their belief that they are all in the green, they doesnt seem to understand the linkage btw rental yield and ppty price. They even laugh at my idea of overlooking at rental yield and advise me to just look at capital appreciation is enough, again using singapore advance country experience to say me wrong. Haha they forget they are in malaysia.

 

[Tekkun]

Any examples of this actually happening?

Tang Yong Kiat Rickie v Sinesinga Sdn Bhd (transferee to part of the assets of United Merchant Finance Bhd) and others
[2014] SGHCR 6

Suit No: OSB No 84 of 2013
Decision Date: 11 March 2014
Court: High Court
Coram: Chan Wei Sern Paul AR
Counsel: Chia Foo Yeow (Loo & Partners LLP) for the plaintiff; Chua Beng Chye, Raelene Pereira and Cherie Tan (Rajah & Tann LLP) for the first defendant; Ryan Loh and Matthew Teo (Rajah & Tann LLP) for the second, third and fourth defendants.

Subject Area / Catchwords
Insolvency Law – Bankruptcy – Annulment of bankruptcy order
Insolvency Law – Cross-border insolvency – Recognition of foreign insolvency proceedings

http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/la...-merchant-finance-bhd-and-others-2014-sghcr-6

 

[Manhattan]

Some management or staff of developer company book units by writing checks which the accountant just locks up in the safe. These type of units could conveniently be let go.

I will be very wary of such developer, obviously they are trying to give an impression that the project is selling very well and 'oh, I have a buyer who bought 3 units but he is willing to let go of one, and you know what? I can even get you the original launch price if you interested'

Buyers be wary, if they can do this, it shows the integrity of the company, you don't know what else they are doing.

 

[mpan12]

I think Tekkun is definitely wrong to say cannot dump. It is definitely possible, but only at a loss (with the current situation and much difficulty to find buyers) and also several penalties to pay, especially those with bank loans. Whether the unit is already VP or not, definitely it can be resold. As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with the developer because you are just finding a new owner for your own unit. I don't know of any government restriction (similar to HDB's 5-year MOP) on this as yet by Malaysia.

HDB's 5-year MOP is imposed because they claimed that it is "subsidized" housing. Believe it or not is all up to you.

Yah... Maybe it's a case of "Malaysia boleh"?

I don't care what it is. Neither will my friend be bothered to ask since it has been granted. And all these are done legally. So no point arguing whatever. We are no experts and we can sit here to discuss and speculate till cows come home.

I'd still emphasize it's up to individuals what they want to do with their investments, or in general, life.

Is Iskandar good for you? Do you want to buy a property or properties and live there? You decide.

Some prefer to label themselves "peasants" and die die must try landed house or condo. (I've lived in a condo in SG. It's just a place for me. A cozy home with loved ones is more important!)

Reminds me of a friend many years ago who earned only S$3+k a month but he always bought branded goods because he wanted to feel good. Hahaha.. Irony is that the poor wants to look and feel rich, whereas some rich remain humble and look poor but they are very contented.

Advice is advice. No one is forcing down your throat you must do this or that. Internet is free info, some are good, some are bad. You decide again what to take it with you.

Some people are rich enough to take high risks. I'm sure you have heard of millionaire gamblers who went to MBS and lost millions of $ within a single day. But these high-stake rollers can make back a lot more in their lives. Similarly, some people can take the risks of investing in Johor with negative returns because of their own choice.

My main point is, if you know you've made a mistake, there's nothing to be shameful of. Cutting losses is in fact a very smart thing to do, if you analyze your own situation and feel you'll be financially better off. You have to be brave and farsighted to do this. Be objective. It doesn't work for all.

I always give this analogy: Do you want to lose an arm now but can still live well and strong, or you want to take a high risk that you may lose all 4 limbs next time?

 

[Funniman]

Wahpiang...these days sibeh jialat leh. , ask buyers to do fire sales... Dey die their bisnes. Then say advice only mah. You like, you do lah.
Mebbe trying to see got cheap cheap sales or not. Buyers not so stupid wan.

 

[kawan2sgmy]

You are a very resourceful person! By helping others we also learn much from it! Thank you! Looks like from your posting, the issue can be discussed in depth.

CROSS-BORDER JURISDICTION AND ASSISTANCE IN INSOLVENCY: THE POSITION IN MALAYSIA AND SINGAPORE

Bankruptcy

In Malaysia, the successor provision is now contained within bankruptcy legislation and deals with the reciprocal recognition and enforcement of bankruptcy judgments and orders of other countries. The reconsolidation of bankruptcy law in Singapore in 1995 saw the re-enactment of the corresponding provision with some textual amendments.

154 The sections are principally designed to ensure close cooperation between Singapore and Malaysian courts, given the close historical links between the two countries as they permit the mutual recognition of acts by the Official Assignee without further formality.

155 The sections permit the High Court of each jurisdiction to act in aid of and be auxiliary to the courts of the other jurisdiction as well as the courts of any other designated country with jurisdiction in bankruptcy and insolvency matters, provided that these courts are required to act in aid of and be auxiliary to the courts in either Malaysia or Singapore.

156 Countries may be designated by the respective authorities through notification in the official Gazette of Malaysia or Singapore.

157An order of any such court seeking aid through a request to the High Court is deemed sufficient to allow the High Court to exercise jurisdiction in respect of the matter

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Can somebody help to summarise the case in simple English? After reading, I still like catch no ball leh.

Tang Yong Kiat Rickie v Sinesinga Sdn Bhd (transferee to part of the assets of United Merchant Finance Bhd) and others
[2014] SGHCR 6

Suit No: OSB No 84 of 2013
Decision Date: 11 March 2014
Court: High Court
Coram: Chan Wei Sern Paul AR
Counsel: Chia Foo Yeow (Loo & Partners LLP) for the plaintiff; Chua Beng Chye, Raelene Pereira and Cherie Tan (Rajah & Tann LLP) for the first defendant; Ryan Loh and Matthew Teo (Rajah & Tann LLP) for the second, third and fourth defendants.

Subject Area / Catchwords
Insolvency Law – Bankruptcy – Annulment of bankruptcy order
Insolvency Law – Cross-border insolvency – Recognition of foreign insolvency proceedings

http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/la...-merchant-finance-bhd-and-others-2014-sghcr-6

 

[kawan2sgmy]

You probably have seen or gone through such a situation to be able to give such good advice!
One has to be decisive and take action or inaction is also an action. Unless one feels there is light at the end of the tunnel, say 5 yrs or 10 yrs from now. If not, it's like paying for long term medication to upkeep the soul.
But since JB is like hinterland to S'pore, the time will come for it to flourish, but don't know when. So it very much depends how much time we can wait.

Yah... Maybe it's a case of "Malaysia boleh"?

I don't care what it is. Neither will my friend be bothered to ask since it has been granted. And all these are done legally. So no point arguing whatever. We are no experts and we can sit here to discuss and speculate till cows come home.

I'd still emphasize it's up to individuals what they want to do with their investments, or in general, life.

Is Iskandar good for you? Do you want to buy a property or properties and live there? You decide.

Some prefer to label themselves "peasants" and die die must try landed house or condo. (I've lived in a condo in SG. It's just a place for me. A cozy home with loved ones is more important!)

Reminds me of a friend many years ago who earned only S$3+k a month but he always bought branded goods because he wanted to feel good. Hahaha.. Irony is that the poor wants to look and feel rich, whereas some rich remain humble and look poor but they are very contented.

Advice is advice. No one is forcing down your throat you must do this or that. Internet is free info, some are good, some are bad. You decide again what to take it with you.

Some people are rich enough to take high risks. I'm sure you have heard of millionaire gamblers who went to MBS and lost millions of $ within a single day. But these high-stake rollers can make back a lot more in their lives. Similarly, some people can take the risks of investing in Johor with negative returns because of their own choice.

My main point is, if you know you've made a mistake, there's nothing to be shameful of. Cutting losses is in fact a very smart thing to do, if you analyze your own situation and feel you'll be financially better off. You have to be brave and farsighted to do this. Be objective. It doesn't work for all.

I always give this analogy: Do you want to lose an arm now but can still live well and strong, or you want to take a high risk that you may lose all 4 limbs next time?

 

[Tekkun]

Can somebody help to summarise the case in simple English? After reading, I still like catch no ball leh.

Something like this:

A Singaporean owe money to some financial institution in Malaysia.
Malaysia sue him and made him a bankrupt and at the same time also made him a bankrupt in Singapore.
It means that the Official Assignee can seize his assets in Singapore. Malaysian OA is also recognised by Singapore without any formality.
This guy applied to Singapore court to set aside the Singapore bankruptcy saying it is not correct as the offence happen in Malaysia.
The judge say it is correct and no reasons to reject the decision made that he is also a Singapore bankrupt.

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Wow, thank you so much, btw, I guess it's also for the benefit of others as well, court documents are so long winded, and the words keep repeating itself until see already also 'luan'' Thanks again!

Something like this:

A Singaporean owe money to some financial institution in Malaysia.
Malaysia sue him and made him a bankrupt and at the same time also made him a bankrupt in Singapore.
It means that the Official Assignee can seize his assets in Singapore. Malaysian OA is also recognised by Singapore without any formality.
This guy applied to Singapore court to set aside the Singapore bankruptcy saying it is not correct as the offence happen in Malaysia.
The judge say it is correct and no reasons to reject the decision made that he is also a Singapore bankrupt.

 

[Tekkun]

A forum is for everyone to put forward his case without any hindrance. In this case, mpan is telling his side of the story while anybody can chip in, countering where necessary. Everyone reading these arguments learn a thing or two from the process. Take in what is good and reject what is not. This is what the forum is all about.

mpan12, no hard feels.

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Oh I just have this thought, not sure if it is workable ornot.
The spouse buy Singapore house (private) under one name (HDB flat is exempted, and incidentally, the couple also cannot decouple the flat if bought under husband & wife names).
Then if want to buy in M'sia, use the other spouse's name.
By such doing, only 1 person go bankrupt, the Singapore asset is still safe.
Just to add, complications may arise if the couple divorce. If they stay good till death do them apart, then probably not much issue.

Something like this:

A Singaporean owe money to some financial institution in Malaysia.
Malaysia sue him and made him a bankrupt and at the same time also made him a bankrupt in Singapore.
It means that the Official Assignee can seize his assets in Singapore. Malaysian OA is also recognised by Singapore without any formality.
This guy applied to Singapore court to set aside the Singapore bankruptcy saying it is not correct as the offence happen in Malaysia.
The judge say it is correct and no reasons to reject the decision made that he is also a Singapore bankrupt.

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Agree! I always tell myself: Take in the essence, and throw away the poison! hahaha!

A forum is for everyone to put forward his case without any hindrance. In this case, mpan is telling his side of the story while anybody can chip in, countering where necessary. Everyone reading these arguments learn a thing or two from the process. Take in what is good and reject what is not. This is what the forum is all about.

mpan12, no hard feels.

 

[Frodo]

You probably have seen or gone through such a situation to be able to give such good advice!
One has to be decisive and take action or inaction is also an action. Unless one feels there is light at the end of the tunnel, say 5 yrs or 10 yrs from now. If not, it's like paying for long term medication to upkeep the soul.
But since JB is like hinterland to S'pore, the time will come for it to flourish, but don't know when. So it very much depends how much time we can wait.

In my view, generally speaking people who want short term investments should avoid JB properties, unless they have some privy information about certain property gems somewhere. Otherwise, if really die die want to invest in JB, then have to treat it as a long term investment. So it is not so much about “JB property cannot touch! Avoid like the plague!” but more of doing your due diligence homework as to which development has good potentials, understanding the way things work in MY, having realistic expectations, and managing those expectations along the way.

In short, know what you are getting into. If you don't know what you are getting into, don't get into it.:p