Puteri Harbour Community

[Stimpy]

Sibe Envy u bo leverage on ur PH mancave.
Mine's on 50% for 15yrs. Need slog abit.

Don't be envious, I've probably not allocated my capital efficiently! Was just taught credit is a last resort.

Anyway, it was a company equity sell off a while back, so not the result of long savings. Will have to slog myself to build up a war chest again. Sigh.

 

[xebay11]

You're SURE it (PH) will go well in 5 years.... and "sg market could tank spectacularly, along with HK and Aus.... Global house price bubble popping is not an outside bet but a real possibility."

Your statements and guesses are all running wild! We can imagine a lot. Anyone can make predictions with no one being a God to confirm their certainty.

Based on facts and data alone, I'd say it's more likely for properties in Iskandar region within the next 5 years, be it Medini, PH or elsewhere, we should see price stagnation (or even reduction) for some time due to the huge oversupply coming up. How they will move after that is anybody's guess. But I think this is more likely to happen.

Despite the fall in RM and developers dangling carrots for their properties in Iskandar, the sales have been extremely slow. Investors and general buyers are wary. But for SG, the govt is holding tightly to the cooling measures with no end in sight. They know the moment they release some of their grip, there will be tons of people rushing in to buy. As it is, even with those measures, recent sales have been robust. This speaks a lot about the different sentiments at both sides, SG and Iskandar.

By that time there would be newer and nicer developments and maintenance would have deteriorated. Investment properties must show IMMEDIATE returns, remember the good old days in Singapore where money was made by flipping while still in option period. That is called investment property and yet these guys talking about years or even decades to make money in Iskandar. Really shake head.

Also when these folks get criticized about the viability of their "investment" properties, all of them will say "so what? I buy for self stay, no worries, what" now when I stop posting, all come out and talk about CA and financing, ha ha ha ha, all delusional and hoping to make money all the time.

From the discussions here, retiring Sinkies take note, there are greedy people here who want a slice of your retirement funds, go rent from the true blue Malaysians who do not have such greedy thinking and also buy their properties at much better prices so that you can enjoy better rents.

Cheers.

 

[xebay11]

Sibe Envy u bo leverage on ur PH mancave.
Mine's on 50% for 15yrs. Need slog abit.

Aiyo what a foolish slave, take 15 year loan, whatever gains even if materialized when you sell decades later is eaten up by interest payments, good god! Where do you guys learn your investment strategies from?

Even at the 1% loans stage in Singapore, I never ever take loans for more than 5 years and use the leverage of cash.

 

[mpan12]

Yes, rental is dirt cheap in JB. When more condos and houses in Iskandar are completed, I am expecting rents to drop in price. There is not a lack of homes to choose from.

Tenants will thank the buyers from Singapore especially who are renting out their properties at prices which may not cover their monthly bank loans.

I did a quick calculation. If one bought a condo for RM720k and take out a 60% loan over 20 years, the interest paid at the end will be about RM218k. Let's round it down to RM200k for simplicity. So the cost of the whole condo is about RM920k.

Assume the rental is RM2,100 a month. That's already being discounted. It could be slightly lower given the high supply coming up in the next many years.

I've also not included maintenance costs to be paid, furniture to be bought and replaced, losses incurred due to months where there are no tenants.

So how many years of rental can one get back to just break even from this investment?

RM920k / RM2.1k = 438 months which is 36.5 years!!!

We have also not included the possibility of RM weakening against the SGD along the way. Historically, this has been the case.

If you choose to retire at 60 years old and move over to Iskandar, you can rent a property till you are 96.5 years old in order for the landlord to get back all his or her money paid for the property. In all likelihood, we may not live that long!

Realistically, if you rent for 20-25 years instead of buying, you have the option to move to different places or even choose to go to another country should the need arise. And the rental you pay is a lot less than what a buyer will have to pay for the property.

If you are a buyer, you may be stuck with the property should you be unable to sell it off next time. You may see it as "own stay" but if you rent instead of buying it, you could be paying a lot less in the long run.

See if the above makes sense to all of you.

 

[Investor888]

Its always good to read thru these threads by nay-sayers. It reminds me more that one has to look into the longer term when investing in properties. It also bring me memories of how my friends and relatives were lamenting on why I had the balls to buy Iskandar properties long time ago.

Now 10 years later I still see them slogging from day to night and taking the first train to work in Tuas and I sometimes feel sad for them. How this 10 years have changed for our lives.

But this is life. Those who criticise can do so all the time. Its their right and we have to agree on that right. Afterall, the mouth belongs to them.

 

[Manhattan]

Exactly. I assume those who read this forum has some interest in the properties of iskandar. If with all the signs and you are still not making the move, either for investment or retirement. Don't regret 10 years later when you still surviving on the monthly paycheck

 

[cybermad]

Exactly. I assume those who read this forum has some interest in the properties of iskandar. If with all the signs and you are still not making the move, either for investment or retirement. Don't regret 10 years later when you still surviving on the monthly paycheck

Not all. Some just have too big a mouth to keep quiet about LOL !

 

[mpan12]

Aiyoh... not naysayer lah. This is a proper discussion. If the thinking and reasoning is wrong, please point it out nicely. Nobody is saying who is smarter than who, or who is so stupid to buy Iskandar.

The money is always yours. At the end, if you have it all worked out, if your sentiments about a place is strong, then feel free to share it.

There are many who have made money in other forms. They are not your stereotyped work day and night Singaporeans. I have heard of millionaires who don't own a car but take public transport every day. They lead a happy lifestyle. I know not so educated uncles and aunties earning commoner salaries who have done well in their SG properties. They don't have to invest overseas to make their money.

10 years ago you invested in Iskandar. How much did your investment cost? Was there an oversupply? The prices now have all been inflated. That's the difference. Think margin of safety and possibility of price appreciation given the scenario that exists today.

 

[xebay11]

Aiyoh... not naysayer lah. This is a proper discussion. If the thinking and reasoning is wrong, please point it out nicely. Nobody is saying who is smarter than who, or who is so stupid to buy Iskandar.

The money is always yours. At the end, if you have it all worked out, if your sentiments about a place is strong, then feel free to share it.

There are many who have made money in other forms. They are not your stereotyped work day and night Singaporeans. I have heard of millionaires who don't own a car but take public transport every day. They lead a happy lifestyle. I know not so educated uncles and aunties earning commoner salaries who have done well in their SG properties. They don't have to invest overseas to make their money.

10 years ago you invested in Iskandar. How much did your investment cost? Was there an oversupply? The prices now have all been inflated. That's the difference. Think margin of safety and possibility of price appreciation given the scenario that exists today.

I am OK with them calling names, at least my millions in fully paid properties are sitting safe I know what works and what doesn't and have the results to show for it and these guys have nothing in this world except hope and name calling.

 

[eric3417]

Aiyo what a foolish slave, take 15 year loan, whatever gains even if materialized when you sell decades later is eaten up by interest payments, good god! Where do you guys learn your investment strategies from?

Even at the 1% loans stage in Singapore, I never ever take loans for more than 5 years and use the leverage of cash.

Haiz… What to do? I dun have a rich dad for a headstart and millions sitting in the Bank.
So can only be a Foolish Slave let the Bank suck interest from me loh…
But hor, what investment u talking abt huh?
PH is not my investment leh.

Oso, Im from Gen X. Retirement is some way off.
So what's wrong with using 50% leverage from Bank to finance my future Retirement home?
Presume i live till 80 from my target retirement age of 50 in PH when the loan is repaid, that's 30years of rental saved!
Not to mention the residual value of that marina facing unit. Hopefully it's not like what u guys like to claim = $0.
LOLOL

:*:

 

[ECboy]

Haiz… What to do? I dun have a rich dad for a headstart and millions sitting in the Bank.
So can only be a Foolish Slave let the Bank suck interest from me loh…
But hor, what investment u talking abt huh?
PH is not my investment leh.

Oso, Im from Gen X. Retirement is some way off.
So what's wrong with using 50% leverage from Bank to finance my future Retirement home?
Presume i live till 80 from my target retirement age of 50 in PH when the loan is repaid, that's 30years of rental saved!
Not to mention the residual value of that marina facing unit. Hopefully it's not like what u guys like to claim = $0.
LOLOL

:*:

Actually most of you are very rich. For me I bought JB because its my hometown but mostly because i can't afford ANYTHING in SG, and there are a lot of people like me.

As a SG PR + foreign wife, I cannot touch HDB so only condo. For condo, no need to say la, totally outpriced. I've been working for 9 years and after paying off all my debts like any other GenY who spends too much, i pretty much have tiny savings, really tiny, like S$10k. Can buy what?

Even if I "ikat perut" maybe can save S$30-40K? Still, can buy what?

So for me, nowhere else to go luckily it's also my hometown

You'll be surprised how big the middle income foreign workforce is that are in this trap. So JB seems to be he easy way out (not the only way).

 

[mpan12]

I don't think the value will be $0. It's more like how you are going to sell to the next buyer if there are so many units there. Can there be a loss or you think you will highly likely profit simply because you can see water from your condo?

What is the appreciation value? Who are your future tenants or buyers? How much are they willing to pay?

If you think your condo is nice, there are many other equally nice ones or even nicer, higher floors and bigger ones. There will be many more coming up.

Not every tenant is also tempted to pay high rental simply because PH faces the marina. A short drive away, there are thousands of others in Medini. If rental there is cheaper, then they will go there.

Not sure if you're a Singaporean. But for this group of people, they are more comfortable with saying that a certain property belongs to them. Renting doesn't feel right. Not Shiok... like you don't own something.

But if you have done the math, you will see renting makes a lot of sense if you wish to retire in JB. Even if you rent for 30 years, the amount you have to spend is likely lesser than an owner of the property. See the calculations I did above.

Renting is better simply because you are talking about JB where rentals are low and the entry prices most buyers have gone into are too high. There is a lot of land there and Malaysians are generally not the ones who will pay so high for rental and purchase your condo next time. You are mainly depending on fellow investors and expats. Actually I think expats will likely rent also. This pool of people is definitely more limited.

The good thing about being a tenant is that you can move anytime you want. For eg, if you feel like it, you can stay in a penthouse for a few months. After that, move to a 4000 sq ft house for a year and live like a king. The next year, move to CG Danga Bay facing the Straits with dirt cheap monthly rental. You may get a spanking new home every time, no need to worry about your condo looking run down, or worry about whether there will be tenants, whether you can sell off, if the RM currency becomes weaker, etc.

After all, this is not your first or main property I believe. So renting it is not a bad thing or "lose face" if that is how Singaporeans feel.

Of course, as I've said as usual, unless you feel you have excess cash and hands itchy must buy something, no one can stop you. This is the only group of people whom I think buying Iskandar properties now (not last time) is understandable. Too rich dunno where to put money any more.

But if you want to make sure you are not taking huge risks, do the math and see if what you are doing makes sense.

Haiz… What to do? I dun have a rich dad for a headstart and millions sitting in the Bank.
So can only be a Foolish Slave let the Bank suck interest from me loh…
But hor, what investment u talking abt huh?
PH is not my investment leh.

Oso, Im from Gen X. Retirement is some way off.
So what's wrong with using 50% leverage from Bank to finance my future Retirement home?
Presume i live till 80 from my target retirement age of 50 in PH when the loan is repaid, that's 30years of rental saved!
Not to mention the residual value of that marina facing unit. Hopefully it's not like what u guys like to claim = $0.
LOLOL

:*:

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Also, need to factor in non-resident income tax @26% for house owners who rent out their unit! At the end of the day, not much meat left, except holding on to some brick & mortar, which need maintenance & upkeep.

Yes, rental is dirt cheap in JB. When more condos and houses in Iskandar are completed, I am expecting rents to drop in price. There is not a lack of homes to choose from.

Tenants will thank the buyers from Singapore especially who are renting out their properties at prices which may not cover their monthly bank loans.

I did a quick calculation. If one bought a condo for RM720k and take out a 60% loan over 20 years, the interest paid at the end will be about RM218k. Let's round it down to RM200k for simplicity. So the cost of the whole condo is about RM920k.

Assume the rental is RM2,100 a month. That's already being discounted. It could be slightly lower given the high supply coming up in the next many years.

I've also not included maintenance costs to be paid, furniture to be bought and replaced, losses incurred due to months where there are no tenants.

So how many years of rental can one get back to just break even from this investment?

RM920k / RM2.1k = 438 months which is 36.5 years!!!

We have also not included the possibility of RM weakening against the SGD along the way. Historically, this has been the case.

If you choose to retire at 60 years old and move over to Iskandar, you can rent a property till you are 96.5 years old in order for the landlord to get back all his or her money paid for the property. In all likelihood, we may not live that long!

Realistically, if you rent for 20-25 years instead of buying, you have the option to move to different places or even choose to go to another country should the need arise. And the rental you pay is a lot less than what a buyer will have to pay for the property.

If you are a buyer, you may be stuck with the property should you be unable to sell it off next time. You may see it as "own stay" but if you rent instead of buying it, you could be paying a lot less in the long run.

See if the above makes sense to all of you.

 

[PuteriWorld]

Aiyoh... not naysayer lah. This is a proper discussion. If the thinking and reasoning is wrong, please point it out nicely. Nobody is saying who is smarter than who, or who is so stupid to buy Iskandar.

The money is always yours. At the end, if you have it all worked out, if your sentiments about a place is strong, then feel free to share it.

There are many who have made money in other forms. They are not your stereotyped work day and night Singaporeans. I have heard of millionaires who don't own a car but take public transport every day. They lead a happy lifestyle. I know not so educated uncles and aunties earning commoner salaries who have done well in their SG properties. They don't have to invest overseas to make their money.

10 years ago you invested in Iskandar. How much did your investment cost? Was there an oversupply? The prices now have all been inflated. That's the difference. Think margin of safety and possibility of price appreciation given the scenario that exists today.

10 years ago, semi Ds at prestigious D10 areas in Nusajaya are selling for RM 700K. That's way way above market rate as Leisure Farm Semi D was selling at RM 400k ( which was severly overpriced ) "Stupid" people dived into it and the rest is history.

10 years ago, there is no oversupply. Err.. there is ZERO demand basically. Which Sinkie in the right frame of mind will uproot himself to the Crime Capital of Malaysia and living in the midst of huge jungles? Those were the days we saw huge spiders the size of our palm ( no kidding ) and centipedes ( huge ones! ) in our house. Wild Boar can be seen loitering around the roads next to the huge forest.

Now no more I guess.

 

[eric3417]

I don't think the value will be $0. It's more like how you are going to sell to the next buyer if there are so many units there. Can there be a loss or you think you will highly likely profit simply because you can see water from your condo?

What is the appreciation value? Who are your future tenants or buyers? How much are they willing to pay?

If you think your condo is nice, there are many other equally nice ones or even nicer, higher floors and bigger ones. There will be many more coming up.

Not every tenant is also tempted to pay high rental simply because PH faces the marina. A short drive away, there are thousands of others in Medini. If rental there is cheaper, then they will go there.

Not sure if you're a Singaporean. But for this group of people, they are more comfortable with saying that a certain property belongs to them. Renting doesn't feel right. Not Shiok... like you don't own something.

But if you have done the math, you will see renting makes a lot of sense if you wish to retire in JB. Even if you rent for 30 years, the amount you have to spend is likely lesser than an owner of the property. See the calculations I did above.

Renting is better simply because you are talking about JB where rentals are low and the entry prices most buyers have gone into are too high. There is a lot of land there and Malaysians are generally not the ones who will pay so high for rental and purchase your condo next time. You are mainly depending on fellow investors and expats. Actually I think expats will likely rent also. This pool of people is definitely more limited.

The good thing about being a tenant is that you can move anytime you want. For eg, if you feel like it, you can stay in a penthouse for a few months. After that, move to a 4000 sq ft house for a year and live like a king. The next year, move to CG Danga Bay facing the Straits with dirt cheap monthly rental. You may get a spanking new home every time, no need to worry about your condo looking run down, or worry about whether there will be tenants, whether you can sell off, if the RM currency becomes weaker, etc.

After all, this is not your first or main property I believe. So renting it is not a bad thing or "lose face" if that is how Singaporeans feel.

Of course, as I've said as usual, unless you feel you have excess cash and hands itchy must buy something, no one can stop you. This is the only group of people whom I think buying Iskandar properties now (not last time) is understandable. Too rich dunno where to put money any more.

But if you want to make sure you are not taking huge risks, do the math and see if what you are doing makes sense.

I factored in the renting part in 2030 when I'm 50 & retired till the day i submit IC.
With inflation it's actually = my buying price + some interest to banks or more.
Even if my PH unit stagnates in value when i die it's still better than renting.

Dun understand why u guys keep harping on the sell to who or rent to who issues?
I am buying as a safe haven for myself & wife who likes PH for future retirement.
It's not meant for speculation or CA. So who cares if can't rent or sell?

Seriously u guys can see beyond 2030?

Salute!

 

[eric3417]

Actually most of you are very rich. For me I bought JB because its my hometown but mostly because i can't afford ANYTHING in SG, and there are a lot of people like me.

As a SG PR + foreign wife, I cannot touch HDB so only condo. For condo, no need to say la, totally outpriced. I've been working for 9 years and after paying off all my debts like any other GenY who spends too much, i pretty much have tiny savings, really tiny, like S$10k. Can buy what?

Even if I "ikat perut" maybe can save S$30-40K? Still, can buy what?

So for me, nowhere else to go luckily it's also my hometown

You'll be surprised how big the middle income foreign workforce is that are in this trap. So JB seems to be he easy way out (not the only way).

Hi ECBoy,

Pls dun be envy of us. There's Pros & Cons being a Sinkie. :o
If you are rich. Being a Sinkie is absolutely Fantastic. U can have almost everything u need here.
But if you are middle class and below, u will struggle with everyday living and Inflation. Medical is also Big boo boo…

I have many msian friends. Some really close ones who came to SG to study as my classmates.
Today they are Happy in Msia. 1 of them can raise 3kids with 5k myr. Cost of living is low for him. He stays in Kulai.
Big land with Big house. 2 cars some more. lol. He never Envy me leh ECboy. In fact i envy him. Serious. He is happy & relax most of the time.
His wife plants his own vegetables and they enjoy a lot of family time in their Kampong. Really enjoy my time whenever i visit them. Damn relax.

 

[Frodo]

Actually most of you are very rich. For me I bought JB because its my hometown but mostly because i can't afford ANYTHING in SG, and there are a lot of people like me.

As a SG PR + foreign wife, I cannot touch HDB so only condo. For condo, no need to say la, totally outpriced. I've been working for 9 years and after paying off all my debts like any other GenY who spends too much, i pretty much have tiny savings, really tiny, like S$10k. Can buy what?

Even if I "ikat perut" maybe can save S$30-40K? Still, can buy what?

So for me, nowhere else to go luckily it's also my hometown

You'll be surprised how big the middle income foreign workforce is that are in this trap. So JB seems to be he easy way out (not the only way).

I can only afford my HDB, nothing else in Singapore. Not even another lau pok chia! And you have more in your bank account than me. I am still paying off debts. For me JB is the only easy way out, just as Singapore is the impossible way in.

 

[Tekkun]

I can only afford my HDB, nothing else in Singapore. Not even another lau pok chia! And you have more in your bank account than me. I am still paying off debts. For me JB is the only easy way out, just as Singapore is the impossible way in.

Two school of thoughts

One is for rentals of the condos rather than to own it. It is the short term, cut and run strategy. No strings attached, just enjoy what you want and no long term commitment. Whatever you have is temporary and does not belong to you. But it is not wrong. Many many world cities are in rental mode. They do not buy but rent long term and it is very normal eg London or Sydney.

The other is to own the condo permanently building it up as holiday / retirement home. There’s residual value in the end of the day. It is long term commitment. Come what may, for better or for worse, it is permanent unless you want to dispose it. It is asset building. Slowly one after another. Take your time. By the time you hit 60, you most probably have more than a handful.

 

[freekazoid]

Two school of thoughts

One is for rentals of the condos rather than to own it. It is the short term, cut and run strategy. No strings attached, just enjoy what you want and no long term commitment. Whatever you have is temporary and does not belong to you. But it is not wrong. Many many world cities are in rental mode. They do not buy but rent long term and it is very normal eg London or Sydney.

The other is to own the condo permanently building it up as holiday / retirement home. There’s residual value in the end of the day. It is long term commitment. Come what may, for better or for worse, it is permanent unless you want to dispose it. It is asset building. Slowly one after another. Take your time. By the time you hit 60, you most probably have more than a handful.

I bet you the Rental School Thoughts pupils had never ever in the position where they have to rent a house for long term. If they were they would not have that thought process.

 

[Tekkun]

I bet you the Rental School Thoughts pupils had never ever in the position where they have to rent a house for long term. If they were they would not have that thought process.

The difference is one has multiple properties and the other had rental receipts. And they are very happy about it. Different people different strokes.