Property News

[mpan12]

Yes, I know your situation as you've mentioned in the past. The whole point is not to say you are wrong, stupid or show why you've made a bad mistake.

The fact is that, not many people feel or think like you with regards to moving over to JB. Whatever makes you happy or works with you, stick with it! But your "thinking" profile is not typical of a Singaporean family.

I have friends and colleagues in your situation. 2,3 kids, combined salary below $8k. Some have wives who stay home and don't earn anything. Most live in 4 to 5 room HDB flats. After every weekend, they sometimes talked about how they had a good time visiting places on interest in Singapore, the foods they ate, the good time they spent with their relatives, etc. Some have cars, some don't. That doesn't make much difference in their quality of life. They still can send their kids to school and some affordable classes/tuition in Singapore. They don't lead a "peasant" lifestyle like you mentioned. No one bitched about how a plate of chicken rice in SG can get them 2 plates of hot fun in JB.

I don't see how their family income or profiles are largely different from yours. So your case is not exceptional. But they can still get by happily over in SG.

So that's why I say it's a matter of expectations. But the main point still remains -- It's not attractive for the general Singaporean family to move over to Iskandar just so that they can live cheaply in a big house. I'm trying to correct some misconceptions or blatant assumptions that property agents say about how Singaporeans will be attracted to live in Iskandar next time to get out of the high cost of living here.

It's not so simple such that Singapore = expensive so => let's all go to Iskandar. There are so many other factors to consider and it's not easy to change human psychology, whether they are justified or not. As of today, the consensus is that nobody wants to move over now or in the future, despite whatever bitching many do regarding Singapore being expensive, overcrowded, stressful, etc.

To extend the argument further, there will be a big problem with rental of properties in oversupply for the next few years with the lack of demand to keep up with it. Some even say there will be pockets of ghost towns here and there. I don't want to predict anything on this lest I get slammed. So let's wait and see.

If you are buying for your own stay and not so bothered whether the value of your property will rise or fall, well ok. It's the blind investors who rushed in thinking they will want to rent their units out that is the problem. If they still choose not to believe the warning signs, then it's dangerous to their finances. Unless they are rich enough to "throw money" without feeling the pinch.

It was unthinkable for me to move over to JB if you ask me this question three years ago. As a place to visit and shop and eat is ok as we like to do that a few times a month, but to stay? That is insanely crazy, what with all the traffic jams and "backward" lifestyle to contend with. And also suicidal to brave the daily commute to work during peak hours. Staying put was staying safe and staying comfortable..but it was also status quo.

So when baby came along in 2013 the first thought was "let's get a bigger HDB". The search for a bigger house with more rooms was depressing, considering the price of flats and the COV sellers are asking for. We can't wait for BTO which is not much bigger than our 4 room flat anyway, and existing bigger flats are $700K excluding COV. As you can see, there's not much option available in Singapore, for people like me with with not much money. JB was suggested to us as a viable option. So with baby in tow we decided to go out of our comfort zone and looked around for a bigger house for a much smaller price. And before long we found ourselves moved over, all in 5 months. Fast forward a couple of years, baby has grown in a non SG environment while her siblings had grown up in HDB neighbourhood, I have also gone through more than two years of daily work commute, on bike some more! Financially still very tight because of loans taken for the JB house but overall we feel that quality of life much better than before. The favourable currency rates definitely stretched the dollar. A $4 plate of chicken rice for one person can buy two plates of hor fun in JB.

Definitely there is a trade off when we move over from SG, but in my own experience so far, it has been more positive than negative. It may not be the same for everyone, depending on each person's situation and preferences.

The thing is that we changed our minds, what was once the unthinkable became the norm for us. So perhaps it is never say never. But it probably would take a leap of faith to step out of our kiasi SG trait. We had a lot of fears at the start too...but now we are more at ease. Maybe a few years down the road we become blended in, and start conversing in Malay...LOL!

 

[Frodo]

Yes, I know your situation as you've mentioned in the past. The whole point is not to say you are wrong, stupid or show why you've made a bad mistake.

The fact is that, not many people feel or think like you with regards to moving over to JB. Whatever makes you happy or works with you, stick with it! But your "thinking" profile is not typical of a Singaporean family.

I have friends and colleagues in your situation. 2,3 kids, combined salary below $8k. Some have wives who stay home and don't earn anything. Most live in 4 to 5 room HDB flats. After every weekend, they sometimes talked about how they had a good time visiting places on interest in Singapore, the foods they ate, the good time they spent with their relatives, etc. Some have cars, some don't. That doesn't make much difference in their quality of life. They still can send their kids to school and some affordable classes/tuition in Singapore. They don't lead a "peasant" lifestyle like you mentioned. No one bitched about how a plate of chicken rice in SG can get them 2 plates of hot fun in JB.

I don't see how their family income or profiles are largely different from yours. So your case is not exceptional. But they can still get by happily over in SG.

So that's why I say it's a matter of expectations. But the main point still remains -- It's not attractive for the general Singaporean family to move over to Iskandar just so that they can live cheaply in a big house. I'm trying to correct some misconceptions or blatant assumptions that property agents say about how Singaporeans will be attracted to live in Iskandar next time to get out of the high cost of living here.

It's not so simple such that Singapore = expensive so => let's all go to Iskandar. There are so many other factors to consider and it's not easy to change human psychology, whether they are justified or not. As of today, the consensus is that nobody wants to move over now or in the future, despite whatever bitching many do regarding Singapore being expensive, overcrowded, stressful, etc.

To extend the argument further, there will be a big problem with rental of properties in oversupply for the next few years with the lack of demand to keep up with it. Some even say there will be pockets of ghost towns here and there. I don't want to predict anything on this lest I get slammed. So let's wait and see.

If you are buying for your own stay and not so bothered whether the value of your property will rise or fall, well ok. It's the blind investors who rushed in thinking they will want to rent their units out that is the problem. If they still choose not to believe the warning signs, then it's dangerous to their finances. Unless they are rich enough to "throw money" without feeling the pinch.

You are right that generally Singaporeans will NOT want to move to JB regardless whether they bitch or complain much about the cost of living in SG or about other things like stress at work or in school. Most will simply not warm up to the idea at all.

The thing is that, and this is my point, 3 years ago I was exactly in that mode of thinking! We easily dismiss or snub the idea because we are "happy and comfortable" with life in safe and cozy Singapore. We had friends and lots of things to do in SG as well. Food was cheap and kids had music and gym and dance classes. Nothing compelled us to pack up and leave. We were just like most non-exceptional typical Singaporean families, dual income about $8k with 2-3 kids, except that we are one income seven pax family earning much lesser than $8k. Nothing caused us to give further thought to it beyond the usual reasons people give for avoiding JB like the plague, until it finally hit us that we are stuck in SG and cannot have that bigger HDB we much needed urgently simply because the cost of doing so was prohibitive. That was when the unthinkable, or the not thought about thing, became thinkable....and then doable...and then done.

What I want to point out really, is that life sometimes work out in a funny way and as such, it is really never to say never. Getting out of the comfort zone not easy. Perhaps a different mindset is required. Instead of buying JB property for investment, can also buy for stay and turn the existing HDB as the investment vehicle instead, with more stable and better yield! Of course not every family can just uproot and do that, nor should they, without counting the cost. But perhaps many can actually do that, with some less radical adjustments, but just that they simply don't give much thought to it, or have too much fears about doing that.

 

[jasonjst]

I went to biz school, they taught me, "Statistics do not lie, but liars do use statistics". So now I always view statistics with a pinch of salt, because we do not know the assumptions made and also how the data was collected ...

So most household earn abv 8k? If one day their income drop to 4k , can still survive ? Government should conduct income stress test for all household

 

[Tekkun]

You are right that generally Singaporeans will NOT want to move to JB regardless whether they bitch or complain much about the cost of living in SG or about other things like stress at work or in school. Most will simply not warm up to the idea at all.

The thing is that, and this is my point, 3 years ago I was exactly in that mode of thinking! We easily dismiss or snub the idea because we are "happy and comfortable" with life in safe and cozy Singapore. We had friends and lots of things to do in SG as well. Food was cheap and kids had music and gym and dance classes. Nothing compelled us to pack up and leave. We were just like most non-exceptional typical Singaporean families, dual income about $8k with 2-3 kids, except that we are one income seven pax family earning much lesser than $8k. Nothing caused us to give further thought to it beyond the usual reasons people give for avoiding JB like the plague, until it finally hit us that we are stuck in SG and cannot have that bigger HDB we much needed urgently simply because the cost of doing so was prohibitive. That was when the unthinkable, or the not thought about thing, became thinkable....and then doable...and then done.

What I want to point out really, is that life sometimes work out in a funny way and as such, it is really never to say never. Getting out of the comfort zone not easy. Perhaps a different mindset is required. Instead of buying JB property for investment, can also buy for stay and turn the existing HDB as the investment vehicle instead, with more stable and better yield! Of course not every family can just uproot and do that, nor should they, without counting the cost. But perhaps many can actually do that, with some less radical adjustments, but just that they simply don't give much thought to it, or have too much fears about doing that.

Those who dare to venture of out their comfort zones has a winning chance.
Those who dare not don't have no chance at all.
If you stand still, you can only move down.
Be a risk taker. Dare to change.

 

[Tekkun]

I went to biz school, they taught me, "Statistics do not lie, but liars do use statistics". So now I always view statistics with a pinch of salt, because we do not know the assumptions made and also how the data was collected ...

So most household earn abv 8k? If one day their income drop to 4k , can still survive ? Government should conduct income stress test for all household

When I was in biz school, not only I make use statistics, I make sure my statistics meets my findings which is finalised long before those statistics are collected.

 

[PuteriWorld]

I have never been to a business school. How I envy all of u here. My highest qualification was PSLE in fact as I dropped out of Sec 2.

 

[tstar]

it seems that the average household has a decent income. but for how long. can they still have such an income when they reach 55, while the retirement age is 65? that is a question.

if you stay put in sg or just go overseas occasionally for sightseeing, you won't realize that the average people in sg actually have much less money than in those places you think were backward 20 years ago.

i went to beijing and shen zhen quite often. trust me that most engineers if they have worked 20years they have at least 2 or 3 three bedroom flats in the city. One guy i know have 8 flats.

A flat was priced at about 80k sgd 15 years ago. 800sgd per sqm. nowadays 12k sgd per sqm. it turns out that a 100 sqm 3 bedroom flat easily sold for 1.2 mil sgd due to the booming market and properous manufacturing in china.

i am not talking about rich biz people but average telcom engineers like those in huawei etc. When they children grow up abd go overseas for uni, they sell one flat and that pays off the tuition in US or oz plus a big house plus living expenses throughout 4 years. that also explains why the property price has surged in sg. these people are super cash rich.

fortunately they are mostly interested in migrating to big countries. that is why even in an ulu place like auckland nz, the median house price in a good district like albany is 1.5 mil nzd while 15 years ago only 300k. if it were not for the garment control, the hdb price in sg today would surely become incredible..

the world has changed a lot. Science and high tech has changed a lot things..you got to see with your own eyes to realize that many engineers in sg probably have no choice but to retire in early 50s and then become taxi drivers or security guards with MNC moving out/downsizing due to high production cost and rental.
after all, Happiness is the vision one has in his heart.

 

[Manhattan]

Indeed the world has changed. Human civilization has come so far that in the first world, almost anybody from any country can buy a freehold land in those countries and well protected by law. What does it mean? How many freehold land in first world cities are there for people to buy? Very soon it will be saturated and the price can only go through the roof. If you have the means, buy freehold in first world cities and help your kids stay ahead in the next 50 years.

 

[Tekkun]

Indeed the world has changed. Human civilization has come so far that in the first world, almost anybody from any country can buy a freehold land in those countries and well protected by law. What does it mean? How many freehold land in first world cities are there for people to buy? Very soon it will be saturated and the price can only go through the roof. If you have the means, buy freehold in first world cities and help your kids stay ahead in the next 50 years.

I bought 999 years leasehold. As it is as good as freehold in UK as it is freely transferable.
On the contrary in Malaysia, leasehold transfer is subjected to approval from land office. Policies change and so do politicians.
Freehold in Malaysia is highly recommended.

 

[tstar]

indeed.

many foreigners profit tremendously from the miraculous beijing property market ptovided they bought 10 years ago.

South koreans are the ones. if you go to an area called Wang Jing in the district of Chao yang in beijing. you will find yourself like in South Korea. people on the streets speak korean. Signboards are in Korean...

the korean bought flats when this place was a construction site in 2002 to 2004 at 3500 to 4000 china yuan (800 sgd) psqm.most them went to live in beijing as husband working there as electrical/mechanical engrs or kids go to universities there. it is not easy to get enrolled in a good univ in South korea without a good academic record. so they bought bigger flats (150 sqm) for an entire family to live in.

now already 60k china yuan (13k sgd) psqm. and still going up.

as my friends said, only in their WILDEST dreams they realize they have become a multi-millionair in USD ten years after living in beijing, as they are just humble engineers. Back in Korea, they could hardly afford to eat beef. Now they have made enough money that is unimaginable in Korea.

 

[mpan12]

Yes got it.....

It's a different mindset indeed. But some things we can't force it on people. This explains why some become rich, others remain poor, some can retire by 50, some have to work till they are 70. We are all different.

Some can do business like they are born for it and become multi-millionaire. Others try to follow the same process but they fail not long later.

Can't just change the mindset of the general Singaporean to like the move over to Iskandar. There are too many factors internally (personal lifestyle, concern over kids education, work in Singapore, prefer quality time with family than travel every day...) and externally (lack of trust in Msian government, safety, poor transportation, uncertainty in future...).

You are right that generally Singaporeans will NOT want to move to JB regardless whether they bitch or complain much about the cost of living in SG or about other things like stress at work or in school. Most will simply not warm up to the idea at all.

The thing is that, and this is my point, 3 years ago I was exactly in that mode of thinking! We easily dismiss or snub the idea because we are "happy and comfortable" with life in safe and cozy Singapore. We had friends and lots of things to do in SG as well. Food was cheap and kids had music and gym and dance classes. Nothing compelled us to pack up and leave. We were just like most non-exceptional typical Singaporean families, dual income about $8k with 2-3 kids, except that we are one income seven pax family earning much lesser than $8k. Nothing caused us to give further thought to it beyond the usual reasons people give for avoiding JB like the plague, until it finally hit us that we are stuck in SG and cannot have that bigger HDB we much needed urgently simply because the cost of doing so was prohibitive. That was when the unthinkable, or the not thought about thing, became thinkable....and then doable...and then done.

What I want to point out really, is that life sometimes work out in a funny way and as such, it is really never to say never. Getting out of the comfort zone not easy. Perhaps a different mindset is required. Instead of buying JB property for investment, can also buy for stay and turn the existing HDB as the investment vehicle instead, with more stable and better yield! Of course not every family can just uproot and do that, nor should they, without counting the cost. But perhaps many can actually do that, with some less radical adjustments, but just that they simply don't give much thought to it, or have too much fears about doing that.

 

[Frodo]

Yes got it.....

It's a different mindset indeed. But some things we can't force it on people. This explains why some become rich, others remain poor, some can retire by 50, some have to work till they are 70. We are all different.

Some can do business like they are born for it and become multi-millionaire. Others try to follow the same process but they fail not long later.

Can't just change the mindset of the general Singaporean to like the move over to Iskandar. There are too many factors internally (personal lifestyle, concern over kids education, work in Singapore, prefer quality time with family than travel every day...) and externally (lack of trust in Msian government, safety, poor transportation, uncertainty in future...).

Actually I am not talking about forcing the idea or changing the mindsets of people like an evangelist for Iskandar properties. But having lived through the experience for more than a couple of years, it ain't that bad. And that's what I can hope to share with others to dispel or allay some fears. In the past it was easy for me to run through, rather academically, a 101 reasons for why I would never ever want to live in JB and rather stay in SG. But when reality finally hit home and there is a real situation that has come before me, most of the reasons suddenly don't seem so formidable, even the daunting and horrifying prospect of the daily commute to work!

Yes, we are indeed all different, though in some ways Singaporeans are a common breed that proudly wears the traits of kiasism and kiasuism. These are also the traits that may hold us back in making that decision. However, those who wish to consider moving out of Singapore cannot expect JB, or other countries for that matter, to be the same or even similar as Singapore or we will be disappointed, simply because we are first world in everything mah! LOL! There will be some things that favour us and others that do not, trade-offs are inevitable in major life decisions.

 

[mpan12]

Yes, I know where you're coming from. But I'm continuing the previous discussion that Iskandar cannot depend on Singaporeans moving over to make up the demand for housing there, for reasons I've already given.

Maybe it can work out for you because it fits into what you desire, your work, your lifestyle, your spouses' and children's agreement, etc. But it's almost impossible for this to happen to the general population in SG.

For eg, not everyone entertains the idea of waking up so early to escape the traffic. Not everyone can go home at a certain time after work. I've spoken to a mother who is a bit keen to consider moving to Iskandar. But she received strong objections from her school-going children. So it's a no go.

For many others, like my colleagues, their life in SG is good. Despite how people always complain life is tough/expensive in SG, they live comfortably in their HDB flats which have been fully paid. Some live in condos or even landed properties, their children go to top schools in SG... there is little or no reason for them to move over.

Nothing is for free. I believe what one gains from the cheap food and housing in Iskandar, there are trade offs. Of course, don't mention the group of people with lots of spare cash, in retirement mode, nothing to do almost everyday, can drive in and out JB at desired timing, sip coffee, play golf.... That's not the lifestyle of the common people.

For myself, my work is important to me and I cannot possibly be late in the morning. I also do sometimes stay back after work. So I totally don't like the feeling that I have to go to/leave work by a set timing. That's of course just one of the reasons I won't move over.

Like I said, if it works for you, then great. But I don't see Iskandar "moving forward with a bang" in many years. It cannot possibly depend on Singaporeans going there to live. That's one dangerous assumption people make.

Actually I am not talking about forcing the idea or changing the mindsets of people like an evangelist for Iskandar properties. But having lived through the experience for more than a couple of years, it ain't that bad. And that's what I can hope to share with others to dispel or allay some fears. In the past it was easy for me to run through, rather academically, a 101 reasons for why I would never ever want to live in JB and rather stay in SG. But when reality finally hit home and there is a real situation that has come before me, most of the reasons suddenly don't seem so formidable, even the daunting and horrifying prospect of the daily commute to work!

Yes, we are indeed all different, though in some ways Singaporeans are a common breed that proudly wears the traits of kiasism and kiasuism. These are also the traits that may hold us back in making that decision. However, those who wish to consider moving out of Singapore cannot expect JB, or other countries for that matter, to be the same or even similar as Singapore or we will be disappointed, simply because we are first world in everything mah! LOL! There will be some things that favour us and others that do not, trade-offs are inevitable in major life decisions.

 

[Investor888]

Of course to each his own. There are domestic rats being breed since young and living in a 1 sq meter cage. For 10 years they are fed very well. If you move them to a bango they wont like it. Same as human beings.

I myself tried to move to a banglo in Iskandar. Very spacious and the side garden is now the size of my 3 bedroom flat size in Singapore

AFter some time I sold off the bango as I had trouble employing a maid and I spent 10 straight hours on vacuuming and mopping my entire house every week. So my sundays are spent holding some mop or cleaners etc

Now I am stay in in a small apartment and it took me 5 minute to clean my house.

Yes, I know where you're coming from. But I'm continuing the previous discussion that Iskandar cannot depend on Singaporeans moving over to make up the demand for housing there, for reasons I've already given.

Maybe it can work out for you because it fits into what you desire, your work, your lifestyle, your spouses' and children's agreement, etc. But it's almost impossible for this to happen to the general population in SG.

For eg, not everyone entertains the idea of waking up so early to escape the traffic. Not everyone can go home at a certain time after work. I've spoken to a mother who is a bit keen to consider moving to Iskandar. But she received strong objections from her school-going children. So it's a no go.

For many others, like my colleagues, their life in SG is good. Despite how people always complain life is tough/expensive in SG, they live comfortably in their HDB flats which have been fully paid. Some live in condos or even landed properties, their children go to top schools in SG... there is little or no reason for them to move over.

Nothing is for free. I believe what one gains from the cheap food and housing in Iskandar, there are trade offs. Of course, don't mention the group of people with lots of spare cash, in retirement mode, nothing to do almost everyday, can drive in and out JB at desired timing, sip coffee, play golf.... That's not the lifestyle of the common people.

For myself, my work is important to me and I cannot possibly be late in the morning. I also do sometimes stay back after work. So I totally don't like the feeling that I have to go to/leave work by a set timing. That's of course just one of the reasons I won't move over.

Like I said, if it works for you, then great. But I don't see Iskandar "moving forward with a bang" in many years. It cannot possibly depend on Singaporeans going there to live. That's one dangerous assumption people make.

 

[Travis]

I think Frodo"s point is - he don"t think Iskandar needs to depend on an exodus of Singaporeans to succeed...all it needs is sufficient people with the same mindset as him to move over and Iskandar will be impacted.

Imagine if only 1% of Singaporean move over ....we will be looking at more than 50 000 living in JB. Imagine the catalytic effect of that 50 000. Not only will it drive spending in JB, but if 10% of the 50 000 are restless retirees who decides to start a small business n employ 2 staff on average (that will be 10 000 new jobs created in Iskandar) .....you get my point on the domino effect of these 50 000.

You might highlight the 300 000 units in Forest city and other units that will come online eventually in 20-30 years n how 50 000 is insignificant but I am looking at these 50 000 moving over in the next 10 years and this is certainly realistic from a 10 years perspective right? ....20-30 years will be a completely different horizon n discussion.

Although 50 000 is not huge but it will definately contribute to the tipping point for Iskandar and, Johor don't need the entire Iskandar to prosper to succeed, if 50% of their lofty plans come to fruition, Johor will be changed forever!

 

[RedsYNWA]

Yes, I know where you're coming from. But I'm continuing the previous discussion that Iskandar cannot depend on Singaporeans moving over to make up the demand for housing there, for reasons I've already given.

Maybe it can work out for you because it fits into what you desire, your work, your lifestyle, your spouses' and children's agreement, etc. But it's almost impossible for this to happen to the general population in SG.

For eg, not everyone entertains the idea of waking up so early to escape the traffic. Not everyone can go home at a certain time after work. I've spoken to a mother who is a bit keen to consider moving to Iskandar. But she received strong objections from her school-going children. So it's a no go.

For many others, like my colleagues, their life in SG is good. Despite how people always complain life is tough/expensive in SG, they live comfortably in their HDB flats which have been fully paid. Some live in condos or even landed properties, their children go to top schools in SG... there is little or no reason for them to move over.

Nothing is for free. I believe what one gains from the cheap food and housing in Iskandar, there are trade offs. Of course, don't mention the group of people with lots of spare cash, in retirement mode, nothing to do almost everyday, can drive in and out JB at desired timing, sip coffee, play golf.... That's not the lifestyle of the common people.

For myself, my work is important to me and I cannot possibly be late in the morning. I also do sometimes stay back after work. So I totally don't like the feeling that I have to go to/leave work by a set timing. That's of course just one of the reasons I won't move over.

Like I said, if it works for you, then great. But I don't see Iskandar "moving forward with a bang" in many years. It cannot possibly depend on Singaporeans going there to live. That's one dangerous assumption people make.

Actually Johor itself is quite a diversified economy. Most traffic jams in JB are due to the locals, and not Singaporeans. I dont think Johor's economy needs to depend on Singaporeans going there to live.

As long as 5% of Singaporeans and 10% of Malaysians/PR residing in SG view JB as a viable option to live in while working in SG, you are going to see the sales rocket. This will be obvious in the coming years when the infrastructure for connectivity matures.

Granted these infrastructure will take a long time to fully develop, but Johor's economy will continue to record >5% growth in the next 10-20 years, and this will fuel local consumption. There has been a lot of talk in the past 2 years of a crashing property market, but so far Johor's and to a larger extent, Malaysia's property market have been v resilient.

 

[jasonjst]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=21j_OCNLuYg

Please watch full video , n you will find your answer too.

Living in Jb vs Living in Sg , I finally found my answers , after living in JB for 5 years vs living in SG for 50 years. It only take me 5years to fully own a Freehold Landed , got pond , garden .... possible to be self substaintable if I follow this guy

 

[Frodo]

Yes, I know where you're coming from. But I'm continuing the previous discussion that Iskandar cannot depend on Singaporeans moving over to make up the demand for housing there, for reasons I've already given.

Maybe it can work out for you because it fits into what you desire, your work, your lifestyle, your spouses' and children's agreement, etc. But it's almost impossible for this to happen to the general population in SG.

For eg, not everyone entertains the idea of waking up so early to escape the traffic. Not everyone can go home at a certain time after work. I've spoken to a mother who is a bit keen to consider moving to Iskandar. But she received strong objections from her school-going children. So it's a no go.

For many others, like my colleagues, their life in SG is good. Despite how people always complain life is tough/expensive in SG, they live comfortably in their HDB flats which have been fully paid. Some live in condos or even landed properties, their children go to top schools in SG... there is little or no reason for them to move over.

Nothing is for free. I believe what one gains from the cheap food and housing in Iskandar, there are trade offs. Of course, don't mention the group of people with lots of spare cash, in retirement mode, nothing to do almost everyday, can drive in and out JB at desired timing, sip coffee, play golf.... That's not the lifestyle of the common people.

For myself, my work is important to me and I cannot possibly be late in the morning. I also do sometimes stay back after work. So I totally don't like the feeling that I have to go to/leave work by a set timing. That's of course just one of the reasons I won't move over.

Like I said, if it works for you, then great. But I don't see Iskandar "moving forward with a bang" in many years. It cannot possibly depend on Singaporeans going there to live. That's one dangerous assumption people make.

In my view it is a moot point whether Iskandar depends on Singapore to succeed. The history and connection between the two states is already so interlinked to begin with. I do not deny that Singapore would contribute significantly to Iskandar, but to say that apart from Singapore, Iskandar cannot make it? I believe JB would want to benefit from SG as much as possible, but yet it is also courting investments from other countries. I doubt the JB govt or Sultan look to Singapore as the salvation of Iskandar.

 

[Frodo]

Actually Johor itself is quite a diversified economy. Most traffic jams in JB are due to the locals, and not Singaporeans. I dont think Johor's economy needs to depend on Singaporeans going there to live.

As long as 5% of Singaporeans and 10% of Malaysians/PR residing in SG view JB as a viable option to live in while working in SG, you are going to see the sales rocket. This will be obvious in the coming years when the infrastructure for connectivity matures.

Granted these infrastructure will take a long time to fully develop, but Johor's economy will continue to record >5% growth in the next 10-20 years, and this will fuel local consumption. There has been a lot of talk in the past 2 years of a crashing property market, but so far Johor's and to a larger extent, Malaysia's property market have been v resilient.

LOL! During the 3 days following the CNY public holidays the Woodlands checkpoint was like a breeze for bikes. It was as though the whole peak hour jams I encounter everyday was caused solely by Malaysian Chinese!

 

[AHGS14]

A silver tsunami is fast developing, if it had not already arrived in sg. A lot of these "silvers" planned their retirements based on the much lower cost of living then, and would find it challenging living today on their savings. The real question to ask for these folks who have a LOT OF TIME at hand is: "Do you want to Live-a-Life(although the environment is less than ideal) or merely SURVIVE".