Property News

[mpan12]

You are viewing the situation from the point of view of those sellers. What about future buyers, especially the young couples who just yearn for affordable flats where they don't need to take hefty loans? They will suffer. They don't huat.

Also, only selected districts have such opportunities to have price surges from HDB flats.

I am not sure if this whole thing is intentional from the government. The Pinnacle is located in a prime location very near CBD. When they built it, they should have known the prices would shoot up quickly. Problem is, this is public housing. It's similar to saying why not build new BTO flats in Orchard Road, if there is space? Starting price $650k for a 3room flat. That's a no brainer. Everyone would want to grab it. Now imagine, 5 years later, how much do you think the 3room flat in Orchard Road can cost?

The other cunning move HDB did was to allow private developers to build flats in mature estates. Not surprisingly, all the flats were highly marked up in price. When it's time to sell, owners are now selling at much higher prices. $900k and above is common. All flats around them will correspondingly increase in price also.

Considered on the whole, this is devastating for Singapore. It means many commoners very soon can no longer think about owning homes in mature estates any more as they become very unaffordable. So most will flock to faraway places like Punggol and Sembawang. These areas in time too, will surge in price.

So in the end, what we will have is the whole country's public housing will be very expensive, with many mature estates' HDB flats leading the way, costing high $800k for 4 rooms and high $900k for 5 room. $1 million flats may become more and more common.

I'm not sure if this is the way the government is indirectly trying to make flat buyers be chained to their debts and not switch homes so easily.

I'm not confident in the way this country is being run any more! I seriously wonder how the children today will be able to buy their flats next time.

Can you imagine in 15 years' time, what the price of a flat will be? Let's make a guess!

Is your HDB flat not really an investment?
First, I would not agree or disagree that HDB is not an investment.
We just look at the facts to decided.

My married colleague, a young couple, was fortunate to get themselves a HDB 4rm unit at the Pinnacle in Tg Pagar about 6 years ago.
It cost them more than S$300K and they were complaining about the blood sucking HDB.
Now, they sold it for more than S$900K, a profit of about S$600,000 and more than 5 years of free lodging.
They bought a resale unit in the suburb for less then the profit earned.
And they are smiling to the bank and forgot entirely about that blood sucking demon they were cursing 6 years ago.

The Pinnacle has about 1,800 units of 4 and 5 rm flats and their asking price range from $700,000 to S1,100,000, depending on unit size and floor level.
All 1,800 owners are reaping a profit of not less then $600K average.
1,800 x $600,000 = 1,080,000,000!
$S1 billion!
Just one project, it managed to generate so much money for the owners is such a short time without doing much.
Who say Singapore is a bad place to live!
Where on earth you can find a country where the citizens can make so much money (perhaps while the govt make even more).

Surely not all will be capitalizing on this but many will so instantly, about S$1 billion were made, some on papers some in real hard cash!
It seems like all BTO units especially the design & build types are realizing a sure profit of at least 50% after the MOP.
The next Design & Build project that will be realizing another S$ billion for the owners will be the Skyville and Skyterrace @ Dawson, Queenstown and many more others.
When even an illiterate uncle can profit S$600,000 for doing nothing and when people can make good money easily, they will spend easily too.
Isn't this what economy is all about?

And back to the earlier question, what say you, guys?

 

[Bubble]

You are viewing the situation from the point of view of those sellers. What about future buyers, especially the young couples who just yearn for affordable flats where they don't need to take hefty loans? They will suffer. They don't huat.

Also, only selected districts have such opportunities to have price surges from HDB flats.

I am not sure if this whole thing is intentional from the government. The Pinnacle is located in a prime location very near CBD. When they built it, they should have known the prices would shoot up quickly. Problem is, this is public housing. It's similar to saying why not build new BTO flats in Orchard Road, if there is space? Starting price $650k for a 3room flat. That's a no brainer. Everyone would want to grab it. Now imagine, 5 years later, how much do you think the 3room flat in Orchard Road can cost?

The other cunning move HDB did was to allow private developers to build flats in mature estates. Not surprisingly, all the flats were highly marked up in price. When it's time to sell, owners are now selling at much higher prices. $900k and above is common. All flats around them will correspondingly increase in price also.

Considered on the whole, this is devastating for Singapore. It means many commoners very soon can no longer think about owning homes in mature estates any more as they become very unaffordable. So most will flock to faraway places like Punggol and Sembawang. These areas in time too, will surge in price.

So in the end, what we will have is the whole country's public housing will be very expensive, with many mature estates' HDB flats leading the way, costing high $800k for 4 rooms and high $900k for 5 room. $1 million flats may become more and more common.

I'm not sure if this is the way the government is indirectly trying to make flat buyers be chained to their debts and not switch homes so easily.

I'm not confident in the way this country is being run any more! I seriously wonder how the children today will be able to buy their flats next time.

Can you imagine in 15 years' time, what the price of a flat will be? Let's make a guess!

WHEN SOMEONE GAIN,THE OTHER WILL SUFFER.WHILE THE COUPLE GAINED now
,THE FUTURE GENERATION WILL SUFFER THE HIGH COST OF HDB IN THE FUTURE

 

[AHGS14]

For people who owns only 1 property and want to live in it, rising property prices does more hamr than good. Property tax is tied to the value of the property. You derive no income/benefit(except for feeling shiok) from the rising value, but yet have to cough out more for the rising property tax.

 

[freekazoid]

Nice and steady climb

 

[eric3417]

You are viewing the situation from the point of view of those sellers. What about future buyers, especially the young couples who just yearn for affordable flats where they don't need to take hefty loans? They will suffer. They don't huat.

Also, only selected districts have such opportunities to have price surges from HDB flats.

I am not sure if this whole thing is intentional from the government. The Pinnacle is located in a prime location very near CBD. When they built it, they should have known the prices would shoot up quickly. Problem is, this is public housing. It's similar to saying why not build new BTO flats in Orchard Road, if there is space? Starting price $650k for a 3room flat. That's a no brainer. Everyone would want to grab it. Now imagine, 5 years later, how much do you think the 3room flat in Orchard Road can cost?

The other cunning move HDB did was to allow private developers to build flats in mature estates. Not surprisingly, all the flats were highly marked up in price. When it's time to sell, owners are now selling at much higher prices. $900k and above is common. All flats around them will correspondingly increase in price also.

Considered on the whole, this is devastating for Singapore. It means many commoners very soon can no longer think about owning homes in mature estates any more as they become very unaffordable. So most will flock to faraway places like Punggol and Sembawang. These areas in time too, will surge in price.

So in the end, what we will have is the whole country's public housing will be very expensive, with many mature estates' HDB flats leading the way, costing high $800k for 4 rooms and high $900k for 5 room. $1 million flats may become more and more common.

I'm not sure if this is the way the government is indirectly trying to make flat buyers be chained to their debts and not switch homes so easily.

I'm not confident in the way this country is being run any more! I seriously wonder how the children today will be able to buy their flats next time.

Can you imagine in 15 years' time, what the price of a flat will be? Let's make a guess!

Actually HDB BTOs in non mature estates are relatively affordable. Cheap if you include eligible grants.
So there are affordable choices available for these Gen Y / strawberries.
They must buy within their capabilities.

 

[sgcount]

Looks strong. But can also tell high-rise condos are the slowest or more resistant in the climb.

Interesting to see how the prices will increase when many condos in Medini, PH and Danga areas are completed in 1-2 years' time. I'm expecting them to be pretty flat till 2019/2020.

Nice and steady climb

View attachment 25786

 

[Tekkun]

Looks strong. But can also tell high-rise condos are the slowest or more resistant in the climb.

Interesting to see how the prices will increase when many condos in Medini, PH and Danga areas are completed in 1-2 years' time. I'm expecting them to be pretty flat till 2019/2020.

Ujana is doing well. It is situated just inside East Ledang entrance, walking distance to the Medini shops.

 

[nusajaya2020]

Ujana is walking distance to Anjung neighbourhood centre (Mydin). I've yet to see anyone walking to Medini other than some workers. Still, it's probably the best located condo unit in Nusajaya for now. Medini in 2-3yrs, and Sunway in 3-5yrs could develop and change all that.

 

[Frodo]

Actually HDB BTOs in non mature estates are relatively affordable. Cheap if you include eligible grants.
So there are affordable choices available for these Gen Y / strawberries.
They must buy within their capabilities.

I suppose not all are eligible for the grants as there are various criteria imposed? Larger flats mean smaller grants too, right? Besides, BTOs may not be ideal for some people depending on their circumstances.

 

[Frodo]

Think the author over-analyzed the topic in an academic manner. Sounded like a young chap with little experience.

The HDB market is already topsy-turvy now. What is a cheap flat ? What is an expensive flat? What is considered affordable? There are no more clear guidelines.

A few decades ago, HDB flats were clearly catered for the commoners. But no thanks to the greedy PM Lee Hsien Loong, like private properties, they have also become speculative in the last 5-10 years. Prices have shot up by more than 60% in a record short time.

No one consciously buys a flat as an investment. But due to the volatility even in flat prices these days, public housing has in a way become a viable route to make money from. This deviates from the original fundamental purpose.

I agree with you that no one, or perhaps a few, buy HDB as an investment property, unless one thinks to sell it off after MOP and then makes a bundle. But depending on location, that bundle may not be big enough to make the next purchase as prices would have also moved up during those 5 years. And there may also be a resale levy. It may thus require higher loan quantum for next property purchase.:o

 

[Frodo]

Is your HDB flat not really an investment?
First, I would not agree or disagree that HDB is not an investment.
We just look at the facts to decided.

My married colleague, a young couple, was fortunate to get themselves a HDB 4rm unit at the Pinnacle in Tg Pagar about 6 years ago.
It cost them more than S$300K and they were complaining about the blood sucking HDB.
Now, they sold it for more than S$900K, a profit of about S$600,000 and more than 5 years of free lodging.
They bought a resale unit in the suburb for less then the profit earned.
And they are smiling to the bank and forgot entirely about that blood sucking demon they were cursing 6 years ago.

The Pinnacle has about 1,800 units of 4 and 5 rm flats and their asking price range from $700,000 to S1,100,000, depending on unit size and floor level.
All 1,800 owners are reaping a profit of not less then $600K average.
1,800 x $600,000 = 1,080,000,000!
$S1 billion!
Just one project, it managed to generate so much money for the owners is such a short time without doing much.
Who say Singapore is a bad place to live!
Where on earth you can find a country where the citizens can make so much money (perhaps while the govt make even more).

Surely not all will be capitalizing on this but many will so instantly, about S$1 billion were made, some on papers some in real hard cash!
It seems like all BTO units especially the design & build types are realizing a sure profit of at least 50% after the MOP.
The next Design & Build project that will be realizing another S$ billion for the owners will be the Skyville and Skyterrace @ Dawson, Queenstown and many more others.
When even an illiterate uncle can profit S$600,000 for doing nothing and when people can make good money easily, they will spend easily too.
Isn't this what economy is all about?

And back to the earlier question, what say you, guys?

Those lucky 1800 unit owners in Pinnacle!

But not everyone gets a shot to sit on a goldmine like the Pinnacle or similar one.:(

I wonder if there is any statistics compiled on how much profit sellers make from sale of HDB?

 

[Tekkun]

Ujana is walking distance to Anjung neighbourhood centre (Mydin). I've yet to see anyone walking to Medini other than some workers. Still, it's probably the best located condo unit in Nusajaya for now. Medini in 2-3yrs, and Sunway in 3-5yrs could develop and change all that.

Ya..correction. Those My din shops, not Medini. Is Anjung situated in Medini Precinct at all?

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Looking forward, where prices of public and private properties are consolidating and coming down, which type of housing is a better investment , in terms of rental returns, but more emphasis on capital appreciation, with time horizon 10-20 yrs, say for a single who consistently contributes to nation building: a resale HDB or condo? Assuming both are 99LH.

Is your HDB flat not really an investment?
First, I would not agree or disagree that HDB is not an investment.
We just look at the facts to decided.

My married colleague, a young couple, was fortunate to get themselves a HDB 4rm unit at the Pinnacle in Tg Pagar about 6 years ago.
It cost them more than S$300K and they were complaining about the blood sucking HDB.
Now, they sold it for more than S$900K, a profit of about S$600,000 and more than 5 years of free lodging.
They bought a resale unit in the suburb for less then the profit earned.
And they are smiling to the bank and forgot entirely about that blood sucking demon they were cursing 6 years ago.

The Pinnacle has about 1,800 units of 4 and 5 rm flats and their asking price range from $700,000 to S1,100,000, depending on unit size and floor level.
All 1,800 owners are reaping a profit of not less then $600K average.
1,800 x $600,000 = 1,080,000,000!
$S1 billion!
Just one project, it managed to generate so much money for the owners is such a short time without doing much.
Who say Singapore is a bad place to live!
Where on earth you can find a country where the citizens can make so much money (perhaps while the govt make even more).

Surely not all will be capitalizing on this but many will so instantly, about S$1 billion were made, some on papers some in real hard cash!
It seems like all BTO units especially the design & build types are realizing a sure profit of at least 50% after the MOP.
The next Design & Build project that will be realizing another S$ billion for the owners will be the Skyville and Skyterrace @ Dawson, Queenstown and many more others.
When even an illiterate uncle can profit S$600,000 for doing nothing and when people can make good money easily, they will spend easily too.
Isn't this what economy is all about?

And back to the earlier question, what say you, guys?

 

[eric3417]

My 2cents is private condo either buc or under 5yrs old.
2hot spots to look at. D22. Jurong East/west area. D14. Paya lebar/aljunied area.

Resale HDB is quite Ex if location is good to rent decently.
Many are quite old if in mature Estates. If bo SER jialut.

West side 1decent 6yrs old condo to consider is The Centris.
Good rental yield. Psf ard $1k for an integrated project.

East side can consider BUC - Sims Oasis at appx $1.3k psf city fringe.
Botanique at Bartley at $1.2k+ psf not bad but mostly good units sold by now.

Cheers!

 

[mpan12]

This fact cannot be ignored: Malaysians prefer to work in Singapore for obvious reasons. They get paid a lot higher than in Malaysia, and enjoy a fantastic exchange rate.

The article below talks about Malaysian GRADUATES not afraid to do odd jobs in Singapore because the pay is so much higher:

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hard-pays-off-better-across-224328486.html

Imagine, you are an educated Malaysian but you are willing to do hard labour. That speaks a lot about their sentiments. Money talks!

There is also an article some time back about a not-so-educated Malaysian manicurist working in Singapore I think. She's paid like S$2,000 a month, equivalent to RM6,000 which is the salary of a professional accountant back in her home.

For the educated Malaysians, most would like to migrate to Singapore. Many of my Malaysian colleagues have gotten their PRs, some want to be Singaporeans. They don't want to go back to Malaysia. I remember my classmates in the past, be it primary school or university, all crossed over to Singapore for a better and unbiased education.

The question now is: How should those who have set up companies in Iskandar going to find skilled labour? No Singaporeans in the right mind will move over there to work for lower pay. Malaysians themselves are going across the causeway for better pay. Already, I was told some present business owners in Singapore are not keen to relocate to Iskandar because of this very reason. I'm not sure how accurate those reports are when they say it's so attractive to move to Iskandar for business. Maybe this applies for a selected few only.

In time to come, Singapore has no choice but to increase its foreign labour. The government is just buying time and careful not to make Singaporeans angry. Once the economy gets better, they have settled the BTO flats shortage and MRT train operations are smoother (give them another 2-3 years for all these to happen), we should be seeing the floodgates open again. More foreigners including Malaysians will flock here.

If businesses can't sustain in Iskandar despite the cheaper land and rents there, residential homes can't thrive with the lack of demand. Something to think about....

 

[Manhattan]

Beats me too. Your questions should be posted to all the towkays who invested rm 50 billions in iskandar over the past 10 years just in manufacturing alone. What did they see and we didn't ?

 

[RedsYNWA]

For many towkays investing in Iskandar, there's no need to find lots of skilled labour: just a few skilled managers and lots of unskilled ones will do.

 

[mpan12]

Have no idea.... Maybe those towkays have too much money?

China developer Country Gardens could plunge so much money. They have even openly commented they are not afraid if there are no buyers. They build first, and (they think) buyers will come naturally. What they are doing baffles most people. Clearly, this is a case of having too much money to dispose.

Peter Lim has a lot of money too. But his is a different game. He is into motor sports which is a niche area few or none can repeat easily in the region. He also has the money to recently switch his property investment to healthcare. That signals his own sensing that the property business is not going to do well.

The normal towkays I know cannot do like those 2 giants mentioned above. So for normal businesses, they will face the important question of how they are going to get skilled labour and build their businesses.

So what we hear are only money pouring into Iskandar but what else? Much of this money could have come during 2011 to 2013. After that, many investors have become very cautious and wise up to the risks involved.

I often see picture and headlines on the news about how so much money has been poured into Iskandar. But very little concrete plan is given on how all the infrastructure, planning and labour issues will come together nicely to make it sustainable.

 

[kawan2sgmy]

Thanks for the highlights, will continue to monitor the market, still got plenty of time to look look see see, hopefully can get a good and cheap unit during this downturn.
Resale HDB does not seem attractive at this moment, the major pull back is that the lease balance has gone off some 30 yrs or more.
But a lot of people mention that if you get a condo first, then there is no turning back to buy a HDB.
But if you buy HDB, you can still buy pte after MOP. But then the money gets diluted; not too keen to use too much leverage.
Money not enough problem!

My 2cents is private condo either buc or under 5yrs old.
2hot spots to look at. D22. Jurong East/west area. D14. Paya lebar/aljunied area.

Resale HDB is quite Ex if location is good to rent decently.
Many are quite old if in mature Estates. If bo SER jialut.

West side 1decent 6yrs old condo to consider is The Centris.
Good rental yield. Psf ard $1k for an integrated project.

East side can consider BUC - Sims Oasis at appx $1.3k psf city fringe.
Botanique at Bartley at $1.2k+ psf not bad but mostly good units sold by now.

Cheers!

 

[RedsYNWA]

Have no idea.... Maybe those towkays have too much money?

China developer Country Gardens could plunge so much money. They have even openly commented they are not afraid if there are no buyers. They build first, and (they think) buyers will come naturally. What they are doing baffles most people. Clearly, this is a case of having too much money to dispose.

Peter Lim has a lot of money too. But his is a different game. He is into motor sports which is a niche area few or none can repeat easily in the region. He also has the money to recently switch his property investment to healthcare. That signals his own sensing that the property business is not going to do well.

The normal towkays I know cannot do like those 2 giants mentioned above. So for normal businesses, they will face the important question of how they are going to get skilled labour and build their businesses.

So what we hear are only money pouring into Iskandar but what else? Much of this money could have come during 2011 to 2013. After that, many investors have become very cautious and wise up to the risks involved.

I often see picture and headlines on the news about how so much money has been poured into Iskandar. But very little concrete plan is given on how all the infrastructure, planning and labour issues will come together nicely to make it sustainable.

Our company has set-up a manufacturing facility in Iskandar. We get a few skilled managers (Malaysians & Singaporeans) to manage the plant, while the remaining positions are filled up by unskilled labour. Materials, labour, utilities and more importantly, setup cost (land and reno) are significantly lower than SG.

Does that answer your question?