Pope Francis says migrants are ‘like Jesus, forced to flee’

[whoami]

All the commandment and religious stuff are actually man made. Even I'm also referring to chinese folklore religion and all kind of religion.

If Prophet can live long until 21th century, he would have change and edit some of his commandment. He is human so he can't live tat long plus his commandment is base on his timeline.

I have discussed in detail in particular with abang @nightsafari. Not just him but with other atheist as well. Prophecies and predictions fm the Quran and the Prophet. Something tat not any ordinary human possessed. Of course its easy to just brush aside afterall the Quran was a written one. But the very fact it has not been altered (as promised by Allah swt) past 1400 yrs speaks volume. Its a miracle

 

[A Singaporean]

Fair comment. But if its a commandment from God, we cant ignore it. Wat we do may sound like 1400 yrs ago. But our thinking still 2020. Generally.

LOL. This is the best joke I read today.

 

[whoami]

LOL. This is the best joke I read today.

Only a retard would think is a joke. LOL

 

[A Singaporean]

Only a retard would think is a joke. LOL

This is what happened since 1400 years ago

 

[A Singaporean]

You IQ is low. US helped Iraq and Kuwait to get rid of Dictator Saddam Hussein. That time, Saudi and Turkey volunteered themselves as the lunching bases. Their pilots also took part in the air strikes.

Intelligence gave wrong info may happen and missile has no eye, so hit wrong target resulted in some innocent civilian casualties did happen.

Compare the Pope and christian leaders with muslim Imams, the differences in attitude and outlook towards humanity. Stop saying Islam is the religion of Peace when imams don't practice and preach peace.

Islam a religion of peace? We should immediate propose ISIS for the Nobel Peace Prize. LOL.

 

[nightsafari]

I have discussed in detail in particular with abang @nightsafari. Not just him but with other atheist as well. Prophecies and predictions fm the Quran and the Prophet. Something tat not any ordinary human possessed. Of course its easy to just brush aside afterall the Quran was a written one. But the very fact it has not been altered (as promised by Allah swt) past 1400 yrs speaks volume. Its a miracle

hi abang. how are you? sorry been away a bit. I thought I would get freer, but instead I am getting busier. Looks like my time to talk cock sing song will not be much for the forseeable future. I hope to be more free next year. Please excuse me if I cannot log in regularly for our discussions.

During this time, I've had a chance to think some further thoughts. Please allow me to share them with you.

Before I start as always is my usual request. That you not consider my position as something against god. Your relationship with god is for you and him alone. No one else. Not for any other human to interfere with. Certainly not me. But I feel certainly not for anyone else either.

Remember you mention that Islam has no contradictions? I've come across a few and would like to share them with you for your opinion.

1) Mohammed and Allah vs Islam

This is perhaps the most jarring contradiction. We have some documentary evidence of Mohammed's life and his deeds. Remember the Consititution of Medina? I've run across a few other works that are for sure by him in my spare time in the last few months. I can't read too much in 1 go. One of them is the Ashtiname of Mohammed. One thing struck me. Mohammed is always trying to achieve peace. Always. I don't know about all his other life or whatnot, but in official documents everything he does is to try to achieve some kind of peace between squabbling or contentious people. For him Assalamu aleikum is truly his way of life in his official dealings. Not just talk. A lot of people say it and next minute turn around and want to fight and scold people or go to war. One thing I see over and over again is that he extends his hand in peace and mercy whenever he has a choice with how to deal with others. Especially when he deals with foreigners.

Adding to this it has been mentioned to me that Allah is all merciful and all forgiving. I cannot know because I myself have no evidence, but if like Allah, Mohammed is his prophet, then he is a good example and the principles match. All merciful and all forgiving. As far as I can tell.

But when we refer to Islam, I fail to see mercy and forgiveness. I instead see punishment and revenge. Not love and mercy, but fear, punishment and control. I lack the capacity to source it all, but I'm informed by actions of sharia law and the story of orang panggang. It is story of fierce punishment. Not a story of mercy. Whether justifiable or not, it doesn't seem to follow the principles of mercy and forgiveness. Here is the #1 contradiction.

2) Idolatry

A point that has occurred to me is that I've heard idolatry was specifically forbidden by Mohammed. But Islam like it's two predecessor religions featuring Abraham is full of idolatry. Please allow me to give you an example. The most obvious one is qibla. Why on earth does a being that is so powerful to transcend our perception need a certain direction of facing when doing certain tasks? That makes no sense at all. Why in the world would the house of god be a cube? Again, I find religions very disrespectful of god if god truly exists. Why pray so many times a day? None of this makes sense for a creator to demand. But it makes sense for a ruler on earth to demand to ensure control of his people.

3) Perfection in an auto-narrative.

I really struggle to see a link between Mohammed and Islam. I see Islam using Mohammed's name again and again and examples of his life again and again. But after that it teaches some things that totally oppose what he did. Or Muslim followers do exactly the opposite of what Mohammed would do. From my perception, it seems that Islam is using Mohammed just like how Christianity uses Jesus. This is not perfect my friend. It is a travesty. It is perfectly written, but it is quite far from perfectly in line with Mohammed's principles.

These above are some thoughts. But if anything the punchline I've come to is this. If you wish to find God, please do so. He is your creator. Why should someone else tell you how to behave? They are no different from you in ignorance or wisdom. Certainly not the Jews who established the foundations of Islam. There are many things that Islam can teach you right. But there are also things within that can teach you wrong.

I've heard that Islam considers Jesus a prophet just like Mohammed. I can see that. They both embodied peace and mercy. If anything is done with peace and mercy, I believe it will be correct. Otherwise it's a mistake. And if you live your life like either and bring peace and mercy unto others, it is my belief that you have come closer to god. Kneeling and scraping to architecture in Arabia so many times a day is not coming closer to god.

Peace be upon you abang.

 

[whoami]

hi abang. how are you? sorry been away a bit. I thought I would get freer, but instead I am getting busier. Looks like my time to talk cock sing song will not be much for the forseeable future. I hope to be more free next year. Please excuse me if I cannot log in regularly for our discussions.

During this time, I've had a chance to think some further thoughts. Please allow me to share them with you.

Before I start as always is my usual request. That you not consider my position as something against god. Your relationship with god is for you and him alone. No one else. Not for any other human to interfere with. Certainly not me. But I feel certainly not for anyone else either.

Remember you mention that Islam has no contradictions? I've come across a few and would like to share them with you for your opinion.

1) Mohammed and Allah vs Islam

This is perhaps the most jarring contradiction. We have some documentary evidence of Mohammed's life and his deeds. Remember the Consititution of Medina? I've run across a few other works that are for sure by him in my spare time in the last few months. I can't read too much in 1 go. One of them is the Ashtiname of Mohammed. One thing struck me. Mohammed is always trying to achieve peace. Always. I don't know about all his other life or whatnot, but in official documents everything he does is to try to achieve some kind of peace between squabbling or contentious people. For him Assalamu aleikum is truly his way of life in his official dealings. Not just talk. A lot of people say it and next minute turn around and want to fight and scold people or go to war. One thing I see over and over again is that he extends his hand in peace and mercy whenever he has a choice with how to deal with others. Especially when he deals with foreigners.

Adding to this it has been mentioned to me that Allah is all merciful and all forgiving. I cannot know because I myself have no evidence, but if like Allah, Mohammed is his prophet, then he is a good example and the principles match. All merciful and all forgiving. As far as I can tell.

But when we refer to Islam, I fail to see mercy and forgiveness. I instead see punishment and revenge. Not love and mercy, but fear, punishment and control. I lack the capacity to source it all, but I'm informed by actions of sharia law and the story of orang panggang. It is story of fierce punishment. Not a story of mercy. Whether justifiable or not, it doesn't seem to follow the principles of mercy and forgiveness. Here is the #1 contradiction.

2) Idolatry

A point that has occurred to me is that I've heard idolatry was specifically forbidden by Mohammed. But Islam like it's two predecessor religions featuring Abraham is full of idolatry. Please allow me to give you an example. The most obvious one is qibla. Why on earth does a being that is so powerful to transcend our perception need a certain direction of facing when doing certain tasks? That makes no sense at all. Why in the world would the house of god be a cube? Again, I find religions very disrespectful of god if god truly exists. Why pray so many times a day? None of this makes sense for a creator to demand. But it makes sense for a ruler on earth to demand to ensure control of his people.

3) Perfection in an auto-narrative.

I really struggle to see a link between Mohammed and Islam. I see Islam using Mohammed's name again and again and examples of his life again and again. But after that it teaches some things that totally oppose what he did. Or Muslim followers do exactly the opposite of what Mohammed would do. From my perception, it seems that Islam is using Mohammed just like how Christianity uses Jesus. This is not perfect my friend. It is a travesty. It is perfectly written, but it is quite far from perfectly in line with Mohammed's principles.

These above are some thoughts. But if anything the punchline I've come to is this. If you wish to find God, please do so. He is your creator. Why should someone else tell you how to behave? They are no different from you in ignorance or wisdom. Certainly not the Jews who established the foundations of Islam. There are many things that Islam can teach you right. But there are also things within that can teach you wrong.

I've heard that Islam considers Jesus a prophet just like Mohammed. I can see that. They both embodied peace and mercy. If anything is done with peace and mercy, I believe it will be correct. Otherwise it's a mistake. And if you live your life like either and bring peace and mercy unto others, it is my belief that you have come closer to god. Kneeling and scraping to architecture in Arabia so many times a day is not coming closer to god.

Peace be upon you abang.

Peace be to u too, bang.

I am fine bang. Cant wait to go office leh. NP. I know ur busy. Buang masa sini tak ada hasil. Sekali2 surf sini ok lah sebab cari makan lagi penting ya. As i had mentioned u are one of those very very few whom i dont mind putting aside some time just to answer ur questions. Ask and u will be given.

1. Teres plenty of mercy and forgiveness mentioned in the Quran. Of course u dont find such examples highlighted in social media/press. Wat u read in the press are nothing but violence. Even in this forum. But did it ever occur to u despite all those negative comments yet we have lots of converts to Islam. I was a witness to the converts. So i know.

If u care to read the Quran, u will know those days in Mecca the Prophet (PBUH) and his followers bore with great patience utmost humiliation and persecution without any retaliation. The Prophet himself suffered insults and personal injuries from the hands of his persecutors. He was prevented from offering his prayers, he allowed himself to be spat upon, to have dust thrown upon him, and to be dragged out of Ka’ba by his own turban fastened to his neck. Can quote u many incidents whereby under such extreme hardship and suffering, the Prophet very patience and did not retaliate. Had people of Mecca not committed such gross injustices and persecuted helpless Muslims in minority there was no question of permission being granted to fight. And for war, if it is war and not mere ghazwa Qur’an clearly lays down that

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you and do not be aggressive. Surely Allah does not love aggressors. [2:190]

So u see, teres mercy mentioned many times in the Quran. Muslims were also told many times to make peace if enemy of Islam so request. Many verses mentioned in the Quran. Peace/lives is of utmost importance in Islam.

As for orang panggang...hehehehe....tat one is a warning to mankind i.e. Allah's swt creation. Warning after warning been given to mankind. Prophets after prophets. Messengers after Messengers were sent as warners to mankind. Now the last Prophet and Messenger, Muhammad s.a.w. been sent by Allah. And the Quran is the final testament. No such thing as believe in god died for ur sin and u go scot free without answering ur bad or evil deeds. Reap wat u sow. Do good deeds, follow the commandment of Allah swt, and u shall be rewarded into paradise.

And those who have believed and done righteous deeds - We will surely assign to them of Paradise [elevated] chambers beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. Excellent is the reward of the [righteous] workers [Q29:58]

2. If a King or Ruler can demand tis and tat, why cant ur Creator? And watever HE commanded u to do, teres hikmah. As mentioned in the Quran:

And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you [might] turn, there is the Face of Allah. Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing [2:115]

Since Allah swt, is everywhere. Then why faced the Kiblat. U see, while praying at home or Masjid i have to face certain directions right. So wat better way than facing the direction of Kaaba. Kaaba is a house built by the hands of the Pillar of Monotheism, Hazrat Ibrahim (a.s.) and was the center of attention of all the Prophets and guides of Monotheism. Commanding HIS subjects to pray facing the Kaaba is also form of unity among the Ummah. So we dont pray to idol, certainly not the Kaaba. Like i always said Islam has always been the most misunderstood religion. I dont blame u....especially the atheist. Oh yes. Praying 5 times a day considered very minimal leow. One prayer the most 5mins. Lunch 1 hour. Cant even spare 10mins for prayer? Prayers very important cos it shows u remember ur Creator..not just by heart but by actions too. Tats why when we died, we will be questioned by two angels of death Munkar and the other Nakir. We will be asked "Who is your Lord, what is your religion, who is your prophet?"

3. Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is the last Messenger of Allah s.w.t. As mentioned in the Quran (as well in my siggy)

“And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the Aalameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists)” [al-Anbiya’ 21:107]

Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for whoever has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah often. [Surah Al-Ahzab: 33:21].

So u can see Islam and the Prophet go hand in hand. Islam doesnt teach wrong stuff. Maybe u can give some examples. Btw u cant judge the religion simply by the actions of the believers. Certain rulers or garment introduce certain laws. They have their reasons for such rules/laws (political or othewise) though Quran may not specify such laws.

We believe in the 5 Pillars of Islam. 1st is faith in Allah. Second is Prayer. See the importance tere? So much benefits we get fm prayers. On the contrary to wat u tink, each time after my prayer session, i feel so fresh...like as though i am clear of my sins for tat day...insyaAllah.

Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance. [Q 20:14]

 

[duluxe]

Remember you mention that Islam has no contradictions? I've come across a few and would like to share them with you for your opinion.

1) Mohammed and Allah vs Islam

The Quran is the scripts of Satan promoting enemity and violence towards non muslims. Like wolf in a sheep skin with some symbolic merciful verses covering the immoral, violence and intolerance verses that mainstream muslims actually follow and practice like death sentence for apostasy (no compulsion in islam we don't actual see in practice is symbolic)......

Muhammad is deceptive in nature, would deceptive be assoicated with God or Satan?

“War is deceit.”-Muhammad, Bukhari 52:269

koran 98:6
Indeed, those who disbelieve from the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, to stay there forever. They are the worst of ˹all˺ beings.

koran 9:30
The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them;

koran 2:65
And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

koran 5:51

O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people (Allah indeed guides the good doing muslims in jihad and striking the neck). ( any muslim who befriends an infidel becomes an infidel ).

The Islamic Quran is 90% a photocopy of the Jewish Torah …translated into another language called Arabic.

 

[duluxe]

3) Perfection in an auto-narrative.

I really struggle to see a link between Mohammed and Islam. I see Islam using Mohammed's name again and again and examples of his life again and again. But after that it teaches some things that totally oppose what he did.

Let’s take a look at what muhammed DID do during his life.

muhammed
– owned slaves and fcuked female slaves, traded in slaves, gave slaves as gifts, owned
concubines (a nice word for “sex slave”);
– called black people “raisin heads;”
– killed unarmed farmers whom he ambushed;
– killed all the men of a group of jews who had surrendered to
him, selected sex slaves from the women, and sold all the
women and children whom he did not rape into slavery;
– allowed his followers to rob caravans and kill the people in
the caravan;
– contracted hits on people whom he didn’t like;
– allowed muslims to lie if it benefits allah, islam, or muhammed;
– told his companions (the first musliims) to kill anybody who
left islam;
– told his followers that muslims are the best of people, that
non-muslims are the worst of *ALL* creatures.

Therefore, we should expect pious muslims to rape infidel women and children, kill infidel men and to kill apostates.

Keep in mind that absolutely *NOTHING * is known about muhammed except for what is in Islamic scriptures.
I dislike the cult of islam, not the common muslims. You look at the evil effects on believers in countries where Islam can be practised freely, except Sinkieland and China.

 

[duluxe]

Remember you mention that Islam has no contradictions? I've come across a few and would like to share them with you for your opinion.


Peace be upon you abang.

Quran 2:102, allah tells muslims that if 2 or more revelations clash, the latest-revealed is what muslims should obey. Most of the latest revelations are the most viiolent. Pious muslims kill and beheading with the permission of Allah. Allahu Akbar!

Most common muslims can't read and understand Arabic and depends on imams for translating and dictating. If they can read arabic, the good ones will become atheists.

 

[syed putra]

Ask any Muslims, almost all of them know ISIS is a creation of US/Jews. Killing innocent is a major sin. Wat more killing in the name of God!

IS is supported by middle eastern gomen initially Saudi to topple shiite dominated baath party in Syria, and later turkey.

 

[whoami]

IS is supported by middle eastern gomen initially Saudi to topple shiite dominated baath party in Syria, and later turkey.

And who support Saud up till today? My 10 yr nephew also know.

 

[syed putra]

But when we refer to Islam, I fail to see mercy and forgiveness. I instead see punishment and revenge. Not love and mercy, but fear, punishment and control. I lack the capacity to source it all, but I'm informed by actions of sharia law and the story of orang panggang. It is story of fierce punishment. Not a story of mercy. Whether justifiable or not, it doesn't seem to follow the principles of mercy and forgiveness. Here is the #1 contradiction.

2) Idolatry

A point that has occurred to me is that I've heard idolatry was specifically forbidden by Mohammed. But Islam like it's two predecessor religions featuring Abraham is full of idolatry. Please allow me to give you an example. The most obvious one is qibla.

That's because islam got corrupted and became a religion. Historical records about mohamad was completely erased until 170 years after his death, they started to rewrite about him.
There could be other versions of the Quran but those too were eliminated until only one copy was left. Here is a good documentary that could explain msny things based on historical and archaeological facts on mohamed and Islam. Religionist will discard these as they were brainwashed since young not to accept facts.

I've heard that Islam considers Jesus a prophet just like Mohammed. I can see that. They both embodied peace and mercy. If anything is done with peace and mercy, I believe it will be correct. Otherwise it's a mistake. And if you live your life like either and bring peace and mercy unto others, it is my belief that you have come closer to god. Kneeling and scraping to architecture in Arabia so many times a day is not coming closer to god.

We have to look into how much influence the jews had in the middle east. Most of the stories in bible and quran can be traced back to jewish myths. Historians tried to find evidence of Moses in Egyptian history but could not.
The foundation of the Quran is about believing in god and being just and righteous. But muslims have long abandoned this putting religion and race first, like what umno currently doing.

 

[nightsafari]

That's because islam got corrupted and became a religion. Historical records about mohamad was completely erased until 170 years after his death, they started to rewrite about him.
There could be other versions of the Quran but those too were eliminated until only one copy was left. Here is a good documentary that could explain msny things based on historical and archaeological facts on mohamed and Islam. Religionist will discard these as they were brainwashed since young not to accept facts.




We have to look into how much influence the jews had in the middle east. Most of the stories in bible and quran can be traced back to jewish myths. Historians tried to find evidence of Moses in Egyptian history but could not.
The foundation of the Quran is about believing in god and being just and righteous. But muslims have long abandoned this putting religion and race first, like what umno currently doing.

I've come to the same conclusion that you propose after doing a little digging. I'm afraid that the current version is nothing like what Mohammed would've wanted to do with.

Thanks for the documentary link.

 

[nightsafari]

And who support Saud up till today? My 10 yr nephew also know.

two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[nightsafari]

Peace be to u too, bang.

On the contrary to wat u tink, each time after my prayer session, i feel so fresh...like as though i am clear of my sins for tat day...insyaAllah.

If it does bring you peace, then go for it.

 

[whoami]

two wrongs do not make a right.

Its politically motivated. And not all Sunni Muslims support Saud.

 

[congo9]

The Pope is like some worldly man. How can he compared Jesus with these migrant?

Jesus saves
Migrant flee