Penalty for acquiring another passport

[Charlie9]

Alamak bro, you still don't get it. He has already found the gold. He just keeping his options for his family and himself. Its like paying the utility bill or renewing road tax.

There are things in Singapore that cannot be found elsewhere. Your logic is not to buy more than one car as no one can only drive 2 cars at one time. If you can afford it, buy a convertible for a sunny day, an SUV for bit of action up country and sleek sedan for your usual business acitvities.

You seem to be suffering for him. I don't think he or anyone else is asking you to follow what he does.

Brother [scroobal],
Thank you for your excellent response.
I read that post, but chose not to reply at that time, hoping to leave it as a mystery for him.
Have a good week.

 

[Charlie9]

Actually if I am not wrong, it was Charlie's era that the govt was hard on dissent and had the most number of detainees locked up. No speakers corner, no protest allowed, basically nothing. Many uni students were banished.

I however do agree that some will continue to have the scorched earth policy in mind due to the acts of this government. You are right in that people have different mindsets when making such decisions.

There is also the issue of next generation that might get caught by actions of their parents who have done things out of ignorance.

As you know, Singapore is the AP hub for many major MNCs. I aware of kids who migrated but whose employment has been rejected when posted to MNCs here. I know of a family whose son working for IBM Australia could not attend regional training in Singapore. In many of these cases, it purely administrative oversight or wrong information provided by ill informed friends and acquaintence.

Brother [scroobal]
Well said.
During my 23 years in SG, there was no dissent.
I may disagree with the ruling govt at that time, but I was very compliant during school days, on the ball (and may be a little garang) during NS and reservist, became more aware and broaden my perspective during university.
There is a time and place for different things.
I had negligible $$ in my CPF, and it is still there. May not be enough to pay for my airfare to SG.
Compared to my schoolmates in SG, we are financially poor. But life is for living, and creating alternatives and as many options as possible for our children.

 

[Satan]

For us, keeping our Singaporean citizenships are more about keeping all options open to allow for future opportunities, where-else for the rest of the people here, giving up their Singaporean citizenships is all about leaving a life of hardship, behind for promised lands. For them, a scorched earth approach is necessary, because Singapore is a past life that needs to be buried. Well, for me, since you know what's happening on my end, so you'll know why I would still keep the Singaporean citizenship, at least until I get shafted by the PAP government somewhere down the road.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Trout

You are right here Trout. People who left at a very young age and have little balance in their CPF accounts might want to hold on to their Singapore citizenship. If you take me hwoever, I do not seriously find any benefit in holding on to the Singapore citizenship as compared to having an Oz one. One thing is, mine and my wife's CPF amounts are substantial and I feel that I could make my funds work harder for me in Oz as compared to Singapore. But mind you, the giving up of the Singapore citizenship is my decesion. I'm not saying that everyone should do what I'm doing here. Each person should do what suits him the best but should at the end of the day be responsible for whatever decesion he makes for himself.

 

[Trout]

Well, I guess on the flipside, sometimes limiting your options via a scorched earth approach might be a good thing. It actually forces you into action by cutting off your path of retreat. After all, great men have often used this tactic to push their men into action. "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar, after crossing the Rubicon, 破釜沉舟 -- Xiang Yu at the Battle of Julu.

It might be the needed push for the diaspora to set root and do great things in their adopted countries. Too many open options and a possible retreat back to Singapore in event of failure leads to paralysis of choice and possible non-spiritual commitment of trying to succeed in your country of choice to emigrate to.

After all, most people are more comfortable with the familiar than the novel. Moving to a new country after spending 2-4 decades in Singapore is a huge mental step into the unfamiliar. I know I was in culture shock mode for at least 2-3 yrs when I went to Canada for school in 1999 when I was 16. I know most first generation immigrants, be they from asia, europe, africa, or the americas, still hold on to a huge part of their national culture/heritage while they are in a new country, and its only the middle-aged Singaporeans that generally choose to bury that past. However, given the thriving activity in this sub-forum...

Cheers,
Trout

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Bro what you say reminds me of a major theme from one of my favourite movies - Cinema Paradiso - where a wise simple man guides his young friend to move away permanently from a small town in Sicily, counseling him that the town is too small to enable him to ever find his dreams...moreover, the old man tells him that once he leaves, he must pursue his destiny wholeheartedly and never look back and never return — never returning to visit, never to give in to nostalgia, never to even write or think about them....

fast forward 30 years later and the once young man finally returns to his old hometown (as a successful film producer/director) for his old friend's funeral and though his hometown has changed greatly, he now understands why his old friend thought it was so important that he leave...

Well, I guess on the flipside, sometimes limiting your options via a scorched earth approach might be a good thing. It actually forces you into action by cutting off your path of retreat. After all, great men have often used this tactic to push their men into action. "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar, after crossing the Rubicon, 破釜沉舟 -- Xiang Yu at the Battle of Julu.

It might be the needed push for the diaspora to set root and do great things in their adopted countries. Too many open options and a possible retreat back to Singapore in event of failure leads to paralysis of choice and possible non-spiritual commitment of trying to succeed in your country of choice to emigrate to.

After all, most people are more comfortable with the familiar than the novel. Moving to a new country after spending 2-4 decades in Singapore is a huge mental step into the unfamiliar. I know I was in culture shock mode for at least 2-3 yrs when I went to Canada for school in 1999 when I was 16. I know most first generation immigrants, be they from asia, europe, africa, or the americas, still hold on to a huge part of their national culture/heritage while they are in a new country, and its only the middle-aged Singaporeans that generally choose to bury that past. However, given the thriving activity in this sub-forum...

Cheers,
Trout

 

[longbow]

Scroobal. Just want a recap.

So if you already have a HDB flat and then obtain another citizenship, what are the repercussion according to what you know.

Are we required to sell them immediately (Since new HDB are only for Singaporeans).

With passports we can play this cat and mouse game of not wanting to know if you have a foreign passport. But HDB rules are pretty specific.

 

[axe168]

You are right here Trout. People who left at a very young age and have little balance in their CPF accounts might want to hold on to their Singapore citizenship. If you take me hwoever, I do not seriously find any benefit in holding on to the Singapore citizenship as compared to having an Oz one. One thing is, mine and my wife's CPF amounts are substantial and I feel that I could make my funds work harder for me in Oz as compared to Singapore. But mind you, the giving up of the Singapore citizenship is my decesion. I'm not saying that everyone should do what I'm doing here. Each person should do what suits him the best but should at the end of the day be responsible for whatever decesion he makes for himself.

Bravo! I guess we all have to ask a question.. can we bring further growth to our retirement fund ie more than 2.5% ? If the answer is YES.. then it is worth renouncing it. At the end of the day if you wana return to SG, all you need is to return the CPF + 2.5% . That's easy !!

If the govt accepts inferior migrants.. then we (as a true blue ex-sinkie) who served the NS for 2.5yrs and who hold graduate degrees and hv tones of experience.. will have far greater chance of success of reinstating our citizenship. u say teo bo ?

On 2nd thot, the world outside SG may offer an equal or higher opportunities... so should we return ? Hmmmmm.... tough qns.

 

[axe168]

Brother brother... the tighter the security or jail cell for the innocent ppl, would result more breakouts and breakfreez...

Iron fist and controlled environment no longer exist in today's world. If there is no "consultation process" in place.. so why are we playing by the so called rules ? Who's rule is that ? Your rule or my rule ? I got the biggest dick does it mean i can set the rule

One has no choice or alternative will have to play by the rules set by any monopoly operator. LPPL. How many Casinos do we have in the world ? If the SG Black-Jack table set ridiculous rules, then we shld all go to Macau Casino or Crown Casino..

The sky is the limit !

i think you have raised an interesting old chestnut issue that the singgie diaspora should perhaps consider with less emotion and more rationality...

bottom line singapore is NOT pap...so why the need for the "scorched earth policy"?...why burn your boats unnecessarily?...why let your dislike for the paps deprive you of the option of returning to singapore should you chose to do so, same for your family...even if it is only to pay a visit to relatives or for a plum job placement/biz venture...never say never, i mean look at the previous president of NUS who left singapore with a poly education but returned years later headhunted by the paps to become NUS president...why not play the paps at their own game and reserve all your options?...if you can keep your singgie passport without incurring any downside why not (same for your family)?...at very least ensure that you and your family are not barred from entering singapore...i mean unless you fall into the cat of tan wah piow, francis seow and tang liang hong what's the beef, particularly in this day and age of globalisation?

 

[scroobal]

This is the extract from their website. The key operating word would be review so it is not exactly cast in stone. It appears that they will give you time. I know that the minimum occupation period rules must be followed.

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10206p....p?OpenDocument

If there are changes to the flat owners' citizenship (Singapore citizenship or Singapore Permanent Resident status), their eligibility to continue to own the flat will be reviewed.
If the flat owners cannot retain the flat, they will need to dispose the flat in the open market if they have completed the minimum occupation period (MOP) as at the point of change of their citizenship. The seller’s eligibility to resell the flat is subject to the resale policy at the time of application.

If the occupation period for the flat has not been completed, HDB will acquire the flat and compensate the owners at a price determined by HDB

Scroobal. Just want a recap.

So if you already have a HDB flat and then obtain another citizenship, what are the repercussion according to what you know.

Are we required to sell them immediately (Since new HDB are only for Singaporeans).

With passports we can play this cat and mouse game of not wanting to know if you have a foreign passport. But HDB rules are pretty specific.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

so again i ask what's the beef and why limit your options unless there is a detrimental downside?

One has no choice or alternative will have to play by the rules set by any monopoly operator.

 

[longbow]

Would you know if one can meet this MOP by merely leaving the flat vacant?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

i gather it is possible if you have a job placement overseas...

Would you know if one can meet this MOP by merely leaving the flat vacant?

 

[Lion_Barbell]

Would you know if one can meet this MOP by merely leaving the flat vacant?

In my family's case, nope.
My dad was posted overseas and our family went with him.
As our 3 year old flat cannot be sold because the 5 year period was not up, it was rented out. However the tenant moved out after 1 year and for another year it was left vacant.
When the 5 year was up, my dad wanted to sell the flat but was informed the 2 years we were overseas does not count. We were only able to sell after the 7th year.

 

[longbow]

Perhaps in your case, HDB knew that you were not physically staying in the flat because your Dad applied for special permission to rent the unit out because of overseas work.

Otherwise how would they even know.

I would think that if you left it empty and register your flat as your official address as per NRIC that flat for all practical purpose is your home.

Now if you are overseas then it might be a problem because HDB might be able to cross check with immigration whether you were in Singapore or not.

Now given that this forum is about immigration, can you apply to rent out the whole flat because you are now PR of another country. Apparently you can apply to HDB to rent out your whole unit if you are overseas on education or job assignment. But what about folks that are PR overseas? There must be lots of people who are PR overseas with flats in Singapore.

In my family's case, nope.
My dad was posted overseas and our family went with him.
As our 3 year old flat cannot be sold because the 5 year period was not up, it was rented out. However the tenant moved out after 1 year and for another year it was left vacant.
When the 5 year was up, my dad wanted to sell the flat but was informed the 2 years we were overseas does not count. We were only able to sell after the 7th year.

 

[axe168]

so again i ask what's the beef and why limit your options unless there is a detrimental downside?

Yes the detrimental downside is my son's NS :( According to the absurd law, when he reach 18 he can be the charged :( I was informed, as long as we dont enjoy the so-called "Singapore Privileges", we shld be alright.. but then, what's the definition of S. Privilege ? .. Sadly, we dont know and ICA rep dont know too ..

Whatever the circumstances, now is the time for the Daddy and Mummy to get out.. prove our residency and citizenship status.. and be innocent !!! We did not enjoy the Singaporean freebies.. but we did have the 7%GST wavier as a foreigner.. heehee..

We live in FEAR and RULES all our life.. it feels good to be free..

 

[scroobal]

No. As far as HDB is concerned, on its record, it shows that the flat has been occupied by you prior to sale. I get the impression that HDB work on what you tell them. I know axe 168 did mention in his past postings of having successfully disposed of his flat.

Maybe others with similar experience can help out.

Would you know if one can meet this MOP by merely leaving the flat vacant?

 

[scroobal]

You are getting the drift.

Perhaps in your case, HDB knew that you were not physically staying in the flat because your Dad applied for special permission to rent the unit out because of overseas work.

Otherwise how would they even know.

I would think that if you left it empty and register your flat as your official address as per NRIC that flat for all practical purpose is your home.

Now if you are overseas then it might be a problem because HDB might be able to cross check with immigration whether you were in Singapore or not.

Now given that this forum is about immigration, can you apply to rent out the whole flat because you are now PR of another country. Apparently you can apply to HDB to rent out your whole unit if you are overseas on education or job assignment. But what about folks that are PR overseas? There must be lots of people who are PR overseas with flats in Singapore.

 

[scroobal]

I think you are missing the point. The person with dual citizenship is better of than one with a single citizenship if all things remain equal. It simple arithmetic of having more options and opportunities for yourself and your kids.

It matters little if the law places an obligation and one gives up the citizenship without following the rules. The end effect is your male offsprings can never enter Singapore while parents having erred still can. A certain disservice to one's son.

Many have made the right decision to withdraw their CPF because of it low returns and unfortunately that calls for renoucing the citizenship. I am sure if it was not requirement they would have held on to it. So if CPF is not a factor and if one follows the rules set out to seek exemption from NS, why screw yourself and your kids.

I have been asked to help on so many occasions when their kids are refused employment pass or refused entry that I know that it quite an issue.

Yes the detrimental downside is my son's NS :( According to the absurd law, when he reach 18 he can be the charged :( I was informed, as long as we dont enjoy the so-called "Singapore Privileges", we shld be alright.. but then, what's the definition of S. Privilege ? .. Sadly, we dont know and ICA rep dont know too ..

Whatever the circumstances, now is the time for the Daddy and Mummy to get out.. prove our residency and citizenship status.. and be innocent !!! We did not enjoy the Singaporean freebies.. but we did have the 7%GST wavier as a foreigner.. heehee..

We live in FEAR and RULES all our life.. it feels good to be free..

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

that's interesting...i think in the case that i alluded to it involved a friend working for EDB who was posted to the States...i think he may have got a waiver from hdb on the grounds that he was working for another stat board??...

In my family's case, nope.
My dad was posted overseas and our family went with him.
As our 3 year old flat cannot be sold because the 5 year period was not up, it was rented out. However the tenant moved out after 1 year and for another year it was left vacant.
When the 5 year was up, my dad wanted to sell the flat but was informed the 2 years we were overseas does not count. We were only able to sell after the 7th year.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

yes well said

So if CPF is not a factor and if one follows the rules set out to seek exemption from NS, why screw yourself and your kids.

.