Penalty for acquiring another passport

[kiwibird7]

According to the Singapore Constitution 134, 135; the SG govt MAY strip you of your Singapore citizenship if you possess a foreign passport/citizenship. There is no mention of any other penalty apart from the above. On this basis, it is clear that SINGAPORE does not allow dual citizenship for those who are no longer minors and it would be ILLOGICAL to continue having article 134, 135 above.

For those minors who have emigrated and deferred NS till age 21 would have to serve NS if they wish to retain their SG citizenship and have to renounce their foreign citizenship.

HOWEVER; having 2 passports or citizenships and lying about it (making false declarations) may result in criminal charges being laid which can result in jail or fines or both!

The embarkation cards may contain a section where one has to state if one has travelled on any other passports (obviously asking about dual citizenship)

My own foreign passport (NZ) states my country of birth as SINGAPORE, FULL NAME and DATE OF BIRTH. Unless one goes to the extreme of changing one's name, it would NOT BE difficult for the ICA online database for them to find out.

 

[Charlie9]

According to the Singapore Constitution 134, 135; the SG govt MAY strip you of your Singapore citizenship if you possess a foreign passport/citizenship. There is no mention of any other penalty apart from the above. On this basis, it is clear that SINGAPORE does not allow dual citizenship for those who are no longer minors and it would be ILLOGICAL to continue having article 134, 135 above.

For those minors who have emigrated and deferred NS till age 21 would have to serve NS if they wish to retain their SG citizenship and have to renounce their foreign citizenship.

HOWEVER; having 2 passports or citizenships and lying about it (making false declarations) may result in criminal charges being laid which can result in jail or fines or both!

The embarkation cards may contain a section where one has to state if one has travelled on any other passports (obviously asking about dual citizenship)

My own foreign passport (NZ) states my country of birth as SINGAPORE, FULL NAME and DATE OF BIRTH. Unless one goes to the extreme of changing one's name, it would NOT BE difficult for the ICA online database for them to find out.

Let us make assumptions or speculate about possible scenarios.

Assume that you acquired NZ citizenship, and also applied for a NZ passport. If we further assume that you chose or inadvertently forgot to renounce your SG citizenship, and your SG passport does not expire till 2011. Speculate that you travelled to SG with your SG passport, but when you returned to NZ, you have other documents or ID to prove your NZ citizenship.
How would the SG ICA know of you having acquired NZ citizenship.
What if in 2011, you applied for renewal of your SG passport?

 

[kiwibird7]

Let us make assumptions or speculate about possible scenarios.

Assume that you acquired NZ citizenship, and also applied for a NZ passport. If we further assume that you chose or inadvertently forgot to renounce your SG citizenship, and your SG passport does not expire till 2011. Speculate that you travelled to SG with your SG passport, but when you returned to NZ, you have other documents or ID to prove your NZ citizenship.
How would the SG ICA know of you having acquired NZ citizenship.
What if in 2011, you applied for renewal of your SG passport?

I don't think ICA actively goes searching for those who have obtained foreign citizenship. And the NZ govt does not volunteer such information to the SG govt even though the list of names are published in full at the citizenship ceremonies. The MFA (Singapore) if really (VERY ON THE BALL) can easily find out if they so wish.

The penalty applies when making a FALSE statutory declaration on the renewal of SG passport form which carries a jail & fine sentence if convicted of a false declaration.

The risks of making a false statutory declaration on the passport renewal form or embarkation form is simply not worth it.

 

[scroobal]

The primary matching field for all countries around the world for immigration, passport control and security purposes is the date of birth. It is the only field that is least likely to confuse IT/Computer/Systems. Names can be spelt differently, spaces can be re-arranged, surname and first name can be interchanged, deed poll can be done, so it is not reliable.

The 2nd reliable field for matching is Place of Birth.

Most entry immigration card do ask for "Use of different name" or something to that effect.

So in all likely hood, they can tell. Unless one has committed a crime, there is no reason to lie or make a false declaration.

You can travel in and out Singapore using a foreign passport (even if you are still in possession of Singapore citizenship) without hindrance unless you have unfulfilled NS obligations such as full time or reservists or wanted for any crime. To check for any outstanding NS reservist obligation, call your unit or CMPB.

At immigration, they might tell you to use your Singapore passport, just whip it out and use it. That is the convention sought by most countries. If you go to Canadian or Australian immigration and ask them which passport to use, they will tell you to use the passport of the country that you are entering fo census purposes.

This is my question:

If I enter Singapore on a foreign passport, will immigration know that I'm also a Singapore citizen if I don't tell them?

 

[allanlee]

I don't think ICA actively goes searching for those who have obtained foreign citizenship. And the NZ govt does not volunteer such information to the SG govt even though the list of names are published in full at the citizenship ceremonies.

The duties of the deputy secretary at the Spore High Commission includes collecting and collating information of each and every singkee granted citizenship in that particular foreign country......... you can be very sure there is already a file opened on you by the time you renounce your citizenship

 

[Papsmearer]

As long as you are employed or studying overseas, deferment will be granted. Those with migration PR only have to show to CMPB for exit permit and deferment. I believe it is 2 years and just keep renewing.

Thousands of singaporeans have migrated over the years. You must surely know some who will tell these simple steps.

Let me know if you want any other myths cleared.

Really. So, if you decide to live in another country permanently, or lets say for 30 years until your Reservist obligations are done, you will have to renew your exit permit 15 times. Is that right. U will also have to apply for a new passport at the nearest singapore embassy, as your passport would have expired long before than. So, you would say that MINDEF exit permit office would not smell a rat and happily renew u every 2 years. U are saying that they would not have notified some other office that u are probably not intending to return. Plus u have to get a job letter from your employer every 2 years to renew your exit permit. Seriously, who does all this. Your theory part sounds good, but u are the one labouring under the myth. In reality, no one goes through all this shit. they may decide to renew their exit permit the first few times, but after a while, they are not going to give shit. They will just let their exit permit expire and travel on their new passport.

 

[kiwibird7]

Really. So, if you decide to live in another country permanently, or lets say for 30 years until your Reservist obligations are done, you will have to renew your exit permit 15 times. Is that right. U will also have to apply for a new passport at the nearest singapore embassy, as your passport would have expired long before than. So, you would say that MINDEF exit permit office would not smell a rat and happily renew u every 2 years. U are saying that they would not have notified some other office that u are probably not intending to return. Plus u have to get a job letter from your employer every 2 years to renew your exit permit. Seriously, who does all this. Your theory part sounds good, but u are the one labouring under the myth. In reality, no one goes through all this shit. they may decide to renew their exit permit the first few times, but after a while, they are not going to give shit. They will just let their exit permit expire and travel on their new passport.

I am not so sure about the 2 yr renewal, mine was renewed on a 1 yr basis every year. I can tell you for a fact that it is NOT A MYTH and everyone (NS liable SG emigrant) I know of in NZ does go thru this 'shit'. Those that don't live to regret not following the mundane crap because the consequences of NOT doing so are NOT WORTH IT!

Like the countless ignorant emigrant parents who failed to register their teen sons for NS deferment, exit permits, registration for NS etc doomed their sons as fugitives from SINGAPORE for life

Going against these rules hurt only yourself eventually and not the PAP govt even though one may obtain foreign nationality after a matter of a few years.

The PAP govt, namely MINDEF will PUNISH those who do not have a valid permit, without a valid exit permit one is liable for ICT and possibly charged for AWOL from NS liabilities.

DO NOT forget that all emigrants would still have CPF in SINGAPORE pending their renunciation of SG citizenship which could be rejected on the basis of problems with MINDEF or warrants of arrest for AWOL.

Some may still have HDB flats registered in their names and fugitives won't be able to come back to sell their flats.

Many would like to come back for the funerals of their parents, fugitives and AWOLees cannot return without the risk of arrests at the airport.

 

[scroobal]

Read the post again - you must show PR documents. Some people will renew, just as one renews road tax, insurance etc. Some don't which might cause a problem down the road. Always keep your options open. I know some have expressed their desire to return here for retirement or at least keep a second house and travel between the 2.

Really. So, if you decide to live in another country permanently, or lets say for 30 years until your Reservist obligations are done, you will have to renew your exit permit 15 times. Is that right. U will also have to apply for a new passport at the nearest singapore embassy, as your passport would have expired long before than. So, you would say that MINDEF exit permit office would not smell a rat and happily renew u every 2 years. U are saying that they would not have notified some other office that u are probably not intending to return. Plus u have to get a job letter from your employer every 2 years to renew your exit permit. Seriously, who does all this. Your theory part sounds good, but u are the one labouring under the myth. In reality, no one goes through all this shit. they may decide to renew their exit permit the first few times, but after a while, they are not going to give shit. They will just let their exit permit expire and travel on their new passport.

 

[scroobal]

Good post bro and something to keep in mind for all.

I am not so sure about the 2 yr renewal, mine was renewed on a 1 yr basis every year. I can tell you for a fact that it is NOT A MYTH and everyone (NS liable SG emigrant) I know of in NZ does go thru this 'shit'. Those that don't live to regret not following the mundane crap because the consequences of NOT doing so are NOT WORTH IT!

Like the countless ignorant emigrant parents who failed to register their teen sons for NS deferment, exit permits, registration for NS etc doomed their sons as fugitives from SINGAPORE for life

Going against these rules hurt only yourself eventually and not the PAP govt even though one may obtain foreign nationality after a matter of a few years.

The PAP govt, namely MINDEF will PUNISH those who do not have a valid permit, without a valid exit permit one is liable for ICT and possibly charged for AWOL from NS liabilities.

DO NOT forget that all emigrants would still have CPF in SINGAPORE pending their renunciation of SG citizenship which could be rejected on the basis of problems with MINDEF or warrants of arrest for AWOL.

Some may still have HDB flats registered in their names and fugitives won't be able to come back to sell their flats.

Many would like to come back for the funerals of their parents, fugitives and AWOLees cannot return without the risk of arrests at the airport.

 

[Charlie9]

Really. So, if you decide to live in another country permanently, or lets say for 30 years until your Reservist obligations are done, you will have to renew your exit permit 15 times. Is that right. U will also have to apply for a new passport at the nearest singapore embassy, as your passport would have expired long before than. So, you would say that MINDEF exit permit office would not smell a rat and happily renew u every 2 years. U are saying that they would not have notified some other office that u are probably not intending to return. Plus u have to get a job letter from your employer every 2 years to renew your exit permit. Seriously, who does all this. Your theory part sounds good, but u are the one labouring under the myth. In reality, no one goes through all this shit. they may decide to renew their exit permit the first few times, but after a while, they are not going to give shit. They will just let their exit permit expire and travel on their new passport.

I have diligently applied for renewal of my exit permit every year during the initial years (because I had completed only several in-camp training, etc.), and thearefter every two years, after I asked CMPB to consider two-year renewals, for almost 26 years. Eventually, CMPB notified me that I do not have to apply for a two-year renewal, because during that last two-year renewal, I will be 50 years old, and accordingly, would be released from my reservist obligations. It has been many months since I do not have to apply for exit permit.

During my initial years in Canada, I had to renew my work visa (permit) every year, before applying for premanent residence (or landed immigrant status), it was a very inconvenient every six months.

With respect, to provide our children with as many options as possible, I may ask my wife to consider applying for European Union status (if there is such a thing) via application for citizenship of the country where my wife was born, for our children. Perhaps, I may do some research. I would speculate that the process for European countries is probably not as tedious and/or require as many details and documents required by SG.

 

[Papsmearer]

I have diligently applied for renewal of my exit permit every year during the initial years (because I had completed only several in-camp training, etc.), and thearefter every two years, after I asked CMPB to consider two-year renewals, for almost 26 years. Eventually, CMPB notified me that I do not have to apply for a two-year renewal, because during that last two-year renewal, I will be 50 years old, and accordingly, would be released from my reservist obligations. It has been many months since I do not have to apply for exit permit.

During my initial years in Canada, I had to renew my work visa (permit) every year, before applying for premanent residence (or landed immigrant status), it was a very inconvenient every six months.

With respect, to provide our children with as many options as possible, I may ask my wife to consider applying for European Union status (if there is such a thing) via application for citizenship of the country where my wife was born, for our children. Perhaps, I may do some research. I would speculate that the process for European countries is probably not as tedious and/or require as many details and documents required by SG.

But why even bother to go thru all of this for 26 years!! Was it worth it? Did you use your S'pore passport so often during this period to justify it? Why not just renounce and not bother with all these renewal shit? Did your children benefit from u doing all these song and dance with MINDEF? And why are u doing it for your children? What makes u think they want to go to Europe? Is there not enough opportunities in Canada and the US? If they really want to go to europe, they will find the means to do that themselves. People like u are truly a mystery to me.

 

[scroobal]

Alamak bro, you still don't get it. He has already found the gold. He just keeping his options for his family and himself. Its like paying the utility bill or renewing road tax.

There are things in Singapore that cannot be found elsewhere. Your logic is not to buy more than one car as no one can only drive 2 cars at one time. If you can afford it, buy a convertible for a sunny day, an SUV for bit of action up country and sleek sedan for your usual business acitvities.

You seem to be suffering for him. I don't think he or anyone else is asking you to follow what he does.

But why even bother to go thru all of this for 26 years!! Was it worth it? Did you use your S'pore passport so often during this period to justify it? Why not just renounce and not bother with all these renewal shit? Did your children benefit from u doing all these song and dance with MINDEF? And why are u doing it for your children? What makes u think they want to go to Europe? Is there not enough opportunities in Canada and the US? If they really want to go to europe, they will find the means to do that themselves. People like u are truly a mystery to me.

 

[Trout]

Alamak bro, you still don't get it. He has already found the gold. He just keeping his options for his family and himself. Its like paying the utility bill or renewing road tax.

There are things in Singapore that cannot be found elsewhere. Your logic is not to buy more than one car as no one can only drive 2 cars at one time. If you can afford it, buy a convertible for a sunny day, an SUV for bit of action up country and sleek sedan for your usual business acitvities.

You seem to be suffering for him. I don't think he or anyone else is asking you to follow what he does.

Hi Scroobal,

Well, you need to understand that Kiwibird and most of the people here who have participated in this thread left Singapore in their middle age with a bitter taste in their mouths due to the hardships they suffered under PAP rule. Charlie, on the other hand, and I guess I fall along with him as well into this group, at least at the current moment, left Singapore at the start of our working careers with little emotional baggage associated with the policies of the government, and thus have little bitterness towards Singapore.

For us, keeping our Singaporean citizenships are more about keeping all options open to allow for future opportunities, where-else for the rest of the people here, giving up their Singaporean citizenships is all about leaving a life of hardship, behind for promised lands. For them, a scorched earth approach is necessary, because Singapore is a past life that needs to be buried. Well, for me, since you know what's happening on my end, so you'll know why I would still keep the Singaporean citizenship, at least until I get shafted by the PAP government somewhere down the road.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[scroobal]

Actually if I am not wrong, it was Charlie's era that the govt was hard on dissent and had the most number of detainees locked up. No speakers corner, no protest allowed, basically nothing. Many uni students were banished.

I however do agree that some will continue to have the scorched earth policy in mind due to the acts of this government. You are right in that people have different mindsets when making such decisions.

There is also the issue of next generation that might get caught by actions of their parents who have done things out of ignorance.

As you know, Singapore is the AP hub for many major MNCs. I aware of kids who migrated but whose employment has been rejected when posted to MNCs here. I know of a family whose son working for IBM Australia could not attend regional training in Singapore. In many of these cases, it purely administrative oversight or wrong information provided by ill informed friends and acquaintence.

Hi Scroobal,

Well, you need to understand that Kiwibird and most of the people here who have participated in this thread left Singapore in their middle age with a bitter taste in their mouths due to the hardships they suffered under PAP rule. Charlie, on the other hand, and I guess I fall along with him as well into this group, at least at the current moment, left Singapore at the start of our working careers with little emotional baggage associated with the policies of the government, and thus have little bitterness towards Singapore.

For us, keeping our Singaporean citizenships are more about keeping all options open to allow for future opportunities, where-else for the rest of the people here, giving up their Singaporean citizenships is all about leaving a life of hardship, behind for promised lands. For them, a scorched earth approach is necessary, because Singapore is a past life that needs to be buried. Well, for me, since you know what's happening on my end, so you'll know why I would still keep the Singaporean citizenship, at least until I get shafted by the PAP government somewhere down the road.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[kiwibird7]

Hi Scroobal,

Well, you need to understand that Kiwibird and most of the people here who have participated in this thread left Singapore in their middle age with a bitter taste in their mouths due to the hardships they suffered under PAP rule. Charlie, on the other hand, and I guess I fall along with him as well into this group, at least at the current moment, left Singapore at the start of our working careers with little emotional baggage associated with the policies of the government, and thus have little bitterness towards Singapore.

For us, keeping our Singaporean citizenships are more about keeping all options open to allow for future opportunities, where-else for the rest of the people here, giving up their Singaporean citizenships is all about leaving a life of hardship, behind for promised lands. For them, a scorched earth approach is necessary, because Singapore is a past life that needs to be buried. Well, for me, since you know what's happening on my end, so you'll know why I would still keep the Singaporean citizenship, at least until I get shafted by the PAP government somewhere down the road.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Trout

Since you have mentioned me. Let me inform you that it is neither emotional baggage or bitterness BUT wisdom brought on by experience and sharing.

Those who have emigrated without the so called 'emotional baggage' have not garnered enough experience of the ways of the PAP yet to know that there are really "NO OPTIONS" the moment you affixed that PR permit sticker/chop onto your SG PASSPORT.

GCT has already branded those with that PR status as QUITTERS. Someone I know had sons who had the NZ PR but wanted to serve their NS as a SAF regulars to enjoy perhaps a SAF scholarship and higher pay. Their application to sign on as a regular was rejected and they didn't even qualify for OCS and ended up as Sargeants after completing their NS. It would have been a tragedy had they suffered death or irreversible physical injury from their NS training after 2 yrs training to become operationally handicapped NS men.

When TONY TAN visited NZ, only NON NZ PR Singaporeans studying at the Canterbury University were invited for cocktails. Those S'porean students with NZ PR were NOT invited. That is the PAP mentality towards those who have overseas PRs. The PAP would rather welcome immigrants from 3rd world countries than touch S'poreans with overseas PRs with a ten foot pole.

Of course, those young emigrants with hardly any CPF to talk about in the first place won't lose much hanging on to their SG passports. But their options in returning to S'pore for work would be restricted to the private sector cos they will be black-listed from govt jobs including those of STAT BOARDS and GLC/GIC companies. And if they are private entreprenuers, they can forget about securing govt contracts for their businesses. SO MUCH for keeping OPTIONS open!

 

[scroobal]

There are now ex-citizens of Singapore who hold appointments in NUS and AStar. There are foreigners in civil service, statutory boards including Departments in places like the Monetary Authority of Singapore.

Things have changed quite dramatically over the years. Since the early 1990s, even the elite Admin service is open to non-citizens by there is a requirement to convert to Singapore citizenship as one progresses.

Except for the SAF understandbly so, I expect things will change and much of the global practices will be adopted.

Since you have mentioned me. Let me inform you that it is neither emotional baggage or bitterness BUT wisdom brought on by experience and sharing.

Those who have emigrated without the so called 'emotional baggage' have not garnered enough experience of the ways of the PAP yet to know that there are really "NO OPTIONS" the moment you affixed that PR permit sticker/chop onto your SG PASSPORT.

GCT has already branded those with that PR status as QUITTERS. Someone I know had sons who had the NZ PR but wanted to serve their NS as a SAF regulars to enjoy perhaps a SAF scholarship and higher pay. Their application to sign on as a regular was rejected and they didn't even qualify for OCS and ended up as Sargeants after completing their NS. It would have been a tragedy had they suffered death or irreversible physical injury from their NS training after 2 yrs training to become operationally handicapped NS men.

When TONY TAN visited NZ, only NON NZ PR Singaporeans studying at the Canterbury University were invited for cocktails. Those S'porean students with NZ PR were NOT invited. That is the PAP mentality towards those who have overseas PRs. The PAP would rather welcome immigrants from 3rd world countries than touch S'poreans with overseas PRs with a ten foot pole.

Of course, those young emigrants with hardly any CPF to talk about in the first place won't lose much hanging on to their SG passports. But their options in returning to S'pore for work would be restricted to the private sector cos they will be black-listed from govt jobs including those of STAT BOARDS and GLC/GIC companies. And if they are private entreprenuers, they can forget about securing govt contracts for their businesses. SO MUCH for keeping OPTIONS open!

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

i think you have raised an interesting old chestnut issue that the singgie diaspora should perhaps consider with less emotion and more rationality...

bottom line singapore is NOT pap...so why the need for the "scorched earth policy"?...why burn your boats unnecessarily?...why let your dislike for the paps deprive you of the option of returning to singapore should you chose to do so, same for your family...even if it is only to pay a visit to relatives or for a plum job placement/biz venture...never say never, i mean look at the previous president of NUS who left singapore with a poly education but returned years later headhunted by the paps to become NUS president...why not play the paps at their own game and reserve all your options?...if you can keep your singgie passport without incurring any downside why not (same for your family)?...at very least ensure that you and your family are not barred from entering singapore...i mean unless you fall into the cat of tan wah piow, francis seow and tang liang hong what's the beef, particularly in this day and age of globalisation?

Hi Scroobal,

Well, you need to understand that Kiwibird and most of the people here who have participated in this thread left Singapore in their middle age with a bitter taste in their mouths due to the hardships they suffered under PAP rule. Charlie, on the other hand, and I guess I fall along with him as well into this group, at least at the current moment, left Singapore at the start of our working careers with little emotional baggage associated with the policies of the government, and thus have little bitterness towards Singapore.

For us, keeping our Singaporean citizenships are more about keeping all options open to allow for future opportunities, where-else for the rest of the people here, giving up their Singaporean citizenships is all about leaving a life of hardship, behind for promised lands. For them, a scorched earth approach is necessary, because Singapore is a past life that needs to be buried. Well, for me, since you know what's happening on my end, so you'll know why I would still keep the Singaporean citizenship, at least until I get shafted by the PAP government somewhere down the road.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Trout

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

perhaps that was the case in the past...but i don't think it applies that much nowadays...globalisation has turned everything on its head and pap being pragmatic to the core has had to bite the bullet on this one...i personally know of emigrants who have been headhunted back to join MAS/GIC/Temasek/GLCS and the public legal service...play the game and keep your options open unless there is any real apparent downside...

Of course, those young emigrants with hardly any CPF to talk about in the first place won't lose much hanging on to their SG passports. But their options in returning to S'pore for work would be restricted to the private sector cos they will be black-listed from govt jobs including those of STAT BOARDS and GLC/GIC companies. And if they are private entreprenuers, they can forget about securing govt contracts for their businesses. SO MUCH for keeping OPTIONS open!

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

yes...in fact the irony now seems to be that it is better to be an ex-singgie headhunted back to singapore...would not even rule out a future cabinet minister or even a pm being an ex-singgie returnee

There are now ex-citizens of Singapore who hold appointments in NUS and AStar. There are foreigners in civil service, statutory boards including Departments in places like the Monetary Authority of Singapore.

Things have changed quite dramatically over the years. Since the early 1990s, even the elite Admin service is open to non-citizens by there is a requirement to convert to Singapore citizenship as one progresses.

Except for the SAF understandbly so, I expect things will change and much of the global practices will be adopted.

 

[scroobal]

I will tell you an interesting story about an NUS Don who in the late 1980s got so fed with the perks given to foreigners who were on the same grade as him that he decided to do something about it.

He migrated to Sydney, worked for 2 years at St Vincent's, qualified for his OZ citizenship and reapplied to NUS. He not only got back his seat, he qualified for all the perks.

I chatted to the wife and him and they told me that they had no relatives in OZ and only owned a house there.

In fact, now ex-=singaporeans who have withdrawn their CPF can come back and work in Singapore without putting it back.

yes...in fact the irony now seems to be that it is better to be an ex-singgie headhunted back to singapore..

The writing was on the wall when Aline Wong became an MP and a minister of State years ago. I am with you on this - the PAP does not own Singapore and everyone born and raised here has a share in this pie no matter where they are in this world.

.would not even rule out a future cabinet minister or even a pm being an ex-singgie returnee