New Romance of 3 Kingdom serial drama is out

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Wah Subok can get theological as well.

Guan Yi Gor is loyalty personified, that's why he's "worshipped" by the HK Police and the HK underworld. Not so much out of superstition, but more of what Yi Gor stood for.

人在做 天在看! That's why the Chinese like to 拜拜, out of respect for all beings.

 

[sleaguepunter]

our self appointed zhuge liang tok rubbish again. every events that happen all within his predictions woh. can twist stories until veri good. suddenly Yizhou become famous for agriculture produce become zhuge liang stunning work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujiangyan_Irrigation_System

suddenly the work of a Qin official Li Bing is forgotten, all credits become Zhuge liang liao. So Shu become a great agriculture centre due to zhuge liang.

hahaha.... so knowledge leh....

 

[Alamaking]

our self appointed zhuge liang tok rubbish again. every events that happen all within his predictions woh. can twist stories until veri good. suddenly Yizhou become famous for agriculture produce become zhuge liang stunning work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujiangyan_Irrigation_System

suddenly the work of a Qin official Li Bing is forgotten, all credits become Zhuge liang liao. So Shu become a great agriculture centre due to zhuge liang.

hahaha.... so knowledge leh....

LOL, sleaguepunter, let him talk lah, wait he said he's Zhuge descendant, twist here twist there, we also LL.

 

[Subok]

our self appointed zhuge liang tok rubbish again. every events that happen all within his predictions woh. can twist stories until veri good. suddenly Yizhou become famous for agriculture produce become zhuge liang stunning work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujiangyan_Irrigation_System

suddenly the work of a Qin official Li Bing is forgotten, all credits become Zhuge liang liao. So Shu become a great agriculture centre due to zhuge liang.

hahaha.... so knowledge leh....

I do not need to know a lot, I just need to know enough to know that you do not know.

Why Chengdu/Szechuan ppl respect Zhuge Liang a lot? It was because prior to Zhuge Liang, Shu was inward looking cottage self sustaining region. Even if you look at the warring Era, this Liu Zhang live in almost relative tranquility oblivious to the rest of the warring dukes. Reason being Shu was not readily accessible and not a agriculture rich region compare to Jingzhou.

Not many saw the potential until Zhuge Liang came along. This is no Baloney. The entire story or records of Three Kingdom is a macro view of the era that time. For micro, you need to go into the individual state for their own historical records.

I feel so sorry for you. 无知小贼速退 杀你污我刀耳

 

[Subok]

LOL, sleaguepunter, let him talk lah, wait he said he's Zhuge descendant, twist here twist there, we also LL.

How come I did not think of that! I better tell go back to my clan house to check if the blood line and heritage can be traced to house of Zhuge !

those who cannot hold their own tends to do guerrillas warfare. *sigh

Pull my punches, but you take my hand to whack you? What for? 无小鹏无名贼速退 杀你污我刀耳

 

[Ramseth]

Why Chengdu/Szechuan ppl respect Zhuge Liang a lot? It was because prior to Zhuge Liang, Shu was inward looking cottage self sustaining region. Even if you look at the warring Era, this Liu Zhang live in almost tranquility oblivious to the rest of the warring dukes. Reason being Shu was not readily accessible and not a agriculture rich region compare to Jingzhou.

Not many saw the potential until Zhuge Liang came along. This is no Baloney. The entire story or records of Three Kingdom is a macro view of the era that time. For micro, you need to go into the individual state for their own historical records.

I'm neutral in this but I have to have a say in 公道话。Actually, it's true and obvious for anyone who've visited Chengdu or Sichuan. The honour and respect accorded to Zhuge Liang was not only military, but civil and agricultural development of that region (primarily in support of the military of course but in the long run beneficial to countless generations).

Cao Cao was never interested in Bashu (as then known) unbelieving that it could amount to anything except unconditional surrender after he'd conquered Dongwu. He miscalculated on Bashu and failed in his Dongwu adventure. That was the pivotal point that gave rise to three kingdoms.

 

[Alamaking]

How come I did not think of that! I better tell go back to my clan house to check if the blood line and heritage can be traced to house of Zhuge !

those who cannot hold their own tends to do guerrillas warfare. *sigh

Pull my punches, but you take my hand to whack you? What for? 无小鹏无名贼速退 杀你污我刀耳

You want me to remind you your knowledge about ROTK again har? no need liao bah, said so many times liao, hehehe

 

[Ramseth]

There're arguments that during the Chibi battle, Zhou Yu and Huang Gai won it with the burning of Cao Cao's fleet, nothing much to do with Zhuge Liang. People who lived in the region most of their lives should know the weather best. There wasn't need for Zhuge to forecast the weather or "borrow the wind."

Herein lies the problem. Every Jiangdong native would agree that then wasn't the season for the south-east wind. Cao Cao with his military experience was always on alert against arson attacks and brought along his weatherman to assure him that then wasn't the season for the south-east wind. That's why he dared to confidently chain-link his fleet. Anamolies in usual weather during any season happens now and then occasionally, and always take even long-time natives by surprise.

Question is, if it was Zhuge Liang who correctly forecast it, how did he do it? He was the only known Taoist master there and then. Those days, a Taoism were very different from nowadays. It was the understanding of the way of nature between heaven and earth, and man's place in it during his lifetime.

In ancient original Taoism untainted with superstition and idol worshipping, reading the stars were always mentioned. 所谓的夜观星像。Is it art and science or just charlatan myth? There's an art and science to it that even modern meterologists use it, with better precision equipment of course. Even animals use it as part of their natural instincts, like birds and cats never got caught drenched in sudden rain.

Reading cloud movements in daylight is common, even most laymen had some rudimentary knowledge of that. However, how to read it at night? Basically, it's using the stars to read it. The stars are stationary and illuminary if unblocked by the clouds. The clouds may be stationary, moving or simply not there. Reading the skies at night, in ancient times without scientific equipment, was especially important. It could foretell weather in the next few days instead of just the next few hours.

Back to the Chibi battleground, even if Zhuge Liang correctly forecast it, it'd be just a stroke of luck that he happened to see it coming. If the wind wasn't coming, he'd probably have to work out another way with Zhou Yu how to handle Cao Cao.

 

[Subok]

There're arguments that during the Chibi battle, Zhou Yu and Huang Gai won it with the burning of Cao Cao's fleet, nothing much to do with Zhuge Liang. People who lived in the region most of their lives should know the weather best. There wasn't need for Zhuge to forecast the weather or "borrow the wind."

Herein lies the problem. Every Jiangdong native would agree that then wasn't the season for the south-east wind. Cao Cao with his military experience was always on alert against arson attacks and brought along his weatherman to assure him that then wasn't the season for the south-east wind. That's why he dared to confidently chain-link his fleet. Anamolies in usual weather during any season happens now and then occasionally, and always take even long-time natives by surprise.

Question is, if it was Zhuge Liang who correctly forecast it, how did he do it? He was the only known Taoist master there and then. Those days, a Taoism were very different from nowadays. It was the understanding of the way of nature between heaven and earth, and man's place in it during his lifetime.

In ancient original Taoism untainted with superstition and idol worshipping, reading the stars were always mentioned. 所谓的夜观星像。Is it art and science or just charlatan myth? There's an art and science to it that even modern meterologists use it, with better precision equipment of course. Even animals use it as part of their natural instincts, like birds and cats never got caught drenched in sudden rain.

Reading cloud movements in daylight is common, even most laymen had some rudimentary knowledge of that. However, how to read it at night? Basically, it's using the stars to read it. The stars are stationary and illuminary if unblocked by the clouds. The clouds may be stationary, moving or simply not there. Reading the skies at night, in ancient times without scientific equipment, was especially important. It could foretell weather in the next few days instead of just the next few hours.

Back to the Chibi battleground, even if Zhuge Liang correctly forecast it, it'd be just a stroke of luck that he happened to see it coming. If the wind wasn't coming, he'd probably have to work out another way with Zhou Yu how to handle Cao Cao.

How did Zhuge Liang did it?

If u look at the Chinese almanac or 黃曆, 通勝, weather is part of the forecast. the forecast even includes today's weather. I would say more than 70% accuracy. As Chinese Physicians will use them to see the fore-coming weather conditions in order to prescribe the medicine according to the ying and yang.

My hypothesis for Zhuge Liang's during Chibi was that he probably knew about the change in coming wind-direction due to his in-depth knowledge of the meteorological conditions according to 黃曆, 通勝 but it may not be 黃曆, 通勝 as these books were collections of "other" books which were not specified in entirety.

I suspect that the religions ceremony was not the "catalyst" for the rain but probably it was done on 3 reasons:-

1. He might not know the exact time and day but he knew it was a day or two within the predicted period, the ceremony was carried out veiled his uncertainty.

2. Even if he knew about the fore-coming wind, by doing a religious ceremony, seemingly "asking" for celestial help, probably intentionally to mask his intimate knowledge which may invite jealousy and death threat from Zhou Yu. OR,

3. The people then were very rooted in pagan practices. By using a ceremony familiar to them like 毛山道术，奇門遁甲, Zhuge Liang appeals to their pagan beliefs and thus winning their trust.

The "borrowing" of the east wind, even if it was real/fake, should not jeopardize Zhuge Liang key role in negotiating an alliance between Liu and Sun.

My humble opinions

 

[Subok]

You want me to remind you your knowledge about ROTK again har? no need liao bah, said so many times liao, hehehe

You are really a JOKE. claiming this claiming there no proof. When a foul seem to be coming, "break" track avoid. NA bei you are a typical forum snake.

I would want to hear your take of Cao Cao was an HERO. Even YOUR Yi ZHONG TIAN did not call him a HERO though he championed views different from others.
:oIo:

 

[Ramseth]

If u look at the Chinese almanac or 黃曆, 通勝, weather is part of the forecast. the forecast even includes today's weather. I would say more than 70% accuracy. As Chinese Physicians will use them to see the fore-coming weather conditions in order to prescribe the medicine according to the ying and yang.

My hypothesis for Zhuge Liang's during Chibi was that he probably knew about the change in coming wind-direction due to his in-depth knowledge of the meteorological conditions according to 黃曆, 通勝 but it may not be 黃曆, 通勝 as these books were collections of "other" books which were not specified in entirety.

Although 黄历 was available since the Qin Dynasty, it was available only in bamboo-bound volume form to royalties, nobilities and landed gentries only. Paper had been invented by Three Kingdoms era, but still not in wide use. A mass market circulation paper-page-bound book as we know it today only appeared in the Song Dynasty after the invention of printing.

In any case 黄历 forecasts general weather patterns, not interim short-term anamolies. Zhuge Liang, supposing he was the one who did it, would have to read the skies directly himself for that.

I suspect that the religions ceremony was not the "catalyst" for the rain but probably it was done on 3 reasons:-

1. He might not know the exact time and day but he knew it was a day or two within the predicted period, the ceremony was carried out veiled his uncertainty.

2. Even if he knew about the fore-coming wind, by doing a religious ceremony, seemingly "asking" for celestial help, probably intentionally to mask his intimate knowledge which may invite jealousy and death threat from Zhou Yu. OR,

3. The people then were very rooted in pagan practices. By using a ceremony familiar to them like 毛山道术，奇門遁甲, Zhuge Liang appeals to their pagan beliefs and thus winning their trust.

I suppose it's a combination of all three factors. For sure, the ritual couldn't be the catalyst or inducer of wind. One reason why Taoism developed into pagan superstition and idol worshipping was probably also because ancient Taoist masters had the tendency to practice mysticism.

They knew how some things happened or was happening or were done through scentific rationalising and deducing, but they wouldn't teach laymen (especially enemies or potential enemies) how it was done. Thereby, maintaining an aura or mystic and supernatural superiority.

The most important reason for the Zhuge Liang borrow east wind ritual was rationally, to buy time for escape, whether the east wind came or not.

The "borrowing" of the east wind, even if it was real/fake, should not jeopardize Zhuge Liang key role in negotiating an alliance between Liu and Sun.

That, I agree. Zhou Yu, after the Chibi battle, realised in anger that Zhuge Liang and Liu Bei had nothing to lose even if he was defeated. Whoever won (Cao Cao or Zhou Yu) were bound to sustain huge casualties. Whoever won, Zhuge Liang would invade Jingzhou, otherwise he might as well go back to Longzhong and sleep. Zhou Yu winning just made his job easier.

 

[Subok]

If I may... same sentiments exactly...

 

[Subok]

You want me to remind you your knowledge about ROTK again har? no need liao bah, said so many times liao, hehehe

非诚勿扰! guess you do not even know the meaning

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Finished watching the new San Guo.

Credit to the producers, watching the 95-episode drama was a breeze, and I am quite a picky watcher, or perhaps it's the subject matter that made me glued to the screen.

The most gut wrenching scene of any RTK drama personally is no doubt 诸葛亮 sulking in the rain at 上方谷. :(:(:(

For the new San Guo, it was a fitting end to a great show.

Although the event was never found in all official historical records, it exemplifies what 谋事在人，成事在天 is all about. Shu Han was doomed to fail but at least I know where Zhuge Liang's stubborness was coming from as 汉贼不两立，王业不偏安, either I kill you or you kill me.

 

[Alamaking]

非诚勿扰! guess you do not even know the meaning

LOL. Last time invite you to discuss, you dun want. After I know your 5 tiger generals and Liu Bei's wife is Xiao Qiao are enough to convince me not to waste too much time on you liao.

You did say that right? :p:p

 

[Subok]

Finished watching the new San Guo......
Although the event was never found in all official historical records, it exemplifies what 谋事在人，成事在天 is all about. Shu Han was doomed to fail but at least I know where Zhuge Liang's stubborness was coming from as 汉贼不两立，王业不偏安, either I kill you or you kill me.

they left out a few key scenes which I felt was significant to the sho我。Zhuge Liang subdued Meng Hou's heart and will. This was important because without the pledge of allegiance from Meng Hou, Zhuge Liang expedtion against Wei would always face problems from the Meng Hou. how Zhuge Liang managed to find his protegee Jiang Wei. And in the old San Guo it also shows Jiang Wei's expedition after Zhuge Liang's death and eventual domination by the Sima. I do not know what you think, but I am of the view that after Cao Cao's death everything seem "chop chop" rush to finish line and while watching episode 95 you can almost "hear" the director and the rest of the crew "panting in sign of relief"


One of the greatest disappointment was this sentence,
兄弟如手足, 妻子如衣服, . 衣服破了尚可缝, 手足断， 安可再续？

This was one of the trademark sentence of Liu Bei. In the old version Liu Bei said those words to Zhang Fei when Zhang Fei lost Xuzhou to Lu Bu. Those words were spoken at a moment reassuring of their brotherhood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAQa5qrEsJA

While in the new Romance, those words were spoken to win Zhang Song's heart therefore the significance was not there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUugywv2Gsg

But there is a new version here just for laugh:-

兄弟如手足, 妻子如衣服, 你穿我衣服， 我断你手足！

 

[Subok]

LOL. Last time invite you to discuss, you dun want. After I know your 5 tiger generals and Liu Bei's wife is Xiao Qiao are enough to convince me not to waste too much time on you liao.

You did say that right? :p:p

Yes, I did say those and I admit was my mistake. Whatever the case is that all you can do? :oIo:

 

[elephanto]

Yes, I did say those and I admit was my mistake. Whatever the case is that all you can do? :oIo:

hmmm, subok is very gracious to admit error & move on...

alamaking, if you continue to harp on these 2 points despite the errata, then you really run out of bullets & risked being boorish ....

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

I doubt the Communist Party censors will pass the re-enactment scenes of Meng Huo's 7 captures and releases given China's current ethnic tensions, eg in Xinjiang. Well afterall this new San Guo caters to a different generation.

I thought the battle of wits between Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi were quite good befitting of a finale to a 95-episode epic, and don't get me started on Kongming's crying in the rain again. :(:(:(:(:(:(

 

[Subok]

I sincerely suspect it got anything to do with the CCP. In fact, the first version was funded by CCP while this new version is private. If CCP got anything to do, maybe the first edition should be the one edited. My gut feel is there is kind of "rush" to end the show after Cao Cao's death, which incidentally supports the synopsis that this new version purportedly is more incline to show the "better" humane side of Cao Cao, focusing more on former's achievement and quest for stability rather than his political shrewdness in displacing his enemies. Therefore, Cao Cao's death also bring about a kinda "haste" to end the show.

My own reason why Meng Hou/Jiang Wei's expedition should be shown because the latter personified the kind of rule Zhuge Liang wished to establish, that of benevolence while Jiang Wei's expeditions show an extended part of Zhuge Liang that continued to live in parts, in the life and person of Jiang Wei. Jiang Wei's eventual death, the grieve and disappointment, wrapped up the demise of Shu Empire.

It is a pity. The new version is more brilliant in its cinematography, but lacks in throughout authenticity even in its dialogues (perhaps to retain the show relevance to current generation) but use of words like “呗” a Colloquial word which I suspect a word not in used then, much like our Singlish "la".