New Romance of 3 Kingdom serial drama is out

[Alamaking]

Watched finished liao
Best Actor is still this Sima Yi guy, the last 20 episodes is all about him

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Watched finished liao
Best Actor is still this Sima Yi guy, the last 20 episodes is all about him

Wah u really big fan of his. Then have you watched this movie?

http://baike.baidu.com/view/3408.htm

That was his most memorable movie to date, not a major part but unforgettable as 龙二, until San Guo.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Like for example = did he really borrow the East Wind from the Gods or he just simply knew of the change in wind direction coming soon?

Zhuge Liang in his advance knowledge of the forth coming weather knew the east wind will be blowing soon but scholars in Cao Cao's camp probably not as advance as Zhuge Liang stated otherwise hence giving Cao Cao false confidence that enemy would never use fire to attack his chained naval fleet. Zhuge Liang then could not just go around telling the generals or Zhou yu "according to my knowledge and studies -- ying yang. .bla bla bla - east wind will be blowing ...". He had to use methods believable then to convince them, which was pagan worship and pagan-styled prayers to ask for east wind from heaven.

actually i wanted to read to the end b4 putting my two cents in but i cannot tahan any more.

first, zhuge liang didnt really participate in the battle of chibi. it was a battle plan sorely by zhou yu, what u saw on tv was pure friction. being a native of jiangdong and commander of Wu naval forces, zhou yu would have know the change of weather better than anyone else in the battle.

the story we saw was added in by the author to make zhuge liang look good while making the villians "ie cao cao & zhou yu" look stupid. If u can lay your hand on the real history of battle of chibi, u will see the different.

by the way, peasants from the past behave the same as peasants of today, ie same as sporean. So they wont care which warlord is righteous or not, all they care is which warlord can give them peace and stablity. For your info, liu bei and zhuge liang spread rumours that cao army will kill the whole population of Xinye, that why the peasants aka refugees fled together with liu bei who intend to use them as human shield.

as much as liu zhang is not as good as liu bei but he not the useless ruler as protrayed in romance of three kingdoms. Under his rule, Ba Shu enjoy peace and stablity. He genuinely care for his subjects that he was willing to hand over the kingdom to cao cao so that the ppl of ba shu can avoid the ravages of war.

 

[Alamaking]

actually i wanted to read to the end b4 putting my two cents in but i cannot tahan any more.........

You want to start a war with subok again har? wait he use Chengdu economy to rebuke your claim again hor :p:p:p

 

[Alamaking]

Wah u really big fan of his. Then have you watched this movie?

http://baike.baidu.com/view/3408.htm

That was his most memorable movie to date, not a major part but unforgettable as 龙二, until San Guo.

I really cannot tahan his laughter, when he laughs, i will laugh exactly like he laugh, hahahhaa

 

[sleaguepunter]

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Who got watch this anime?

i have this, i think it has 9 DVD. i brought more than 6 mths ago, but i only watch the first disk. not bad for a cartoon but i brought more for my son to watch.

 

[sleaguepunter]

i personally think that the san guo yen yi didnt to justice to Cao Cao. He a reformer, he see the old way aka confucious style was preventing ppl from doing their best. He dont believe that ablities of a person have anything to do with his or her birthrights. he promote men with abilities irregardless of the person past. He can accept ppl into his rank even the person had try to murder him, ie Jia Xu and Zhang Xiu. The gentry hate him because he do away with theirs privilages. That the reason why they wrote so many false stories about him. The peasants were uneducated so stories written by these gentry become "official".

while there were many "inventions" credited to zhuge liang, cao cao lifelong works also benefited the masses at that time. He too wrote medical books and many of his policies are beneficial to the masses. If cao cao was as bad as protrayed in the book, then rebellions would have broke out all over his turf, which didnt happen at all. his land reform attract refugees to settle in his land which provide him with sufficient provisions to wage campaigns against other war lord. What happen he accepted the surrender of the 300K qingzhou soldiers, together with about 1 million refugees who were descentant of the yellow turbans. he recongnise the basic of a country is not land but the ppl who lived in it. So despite having accepted the surrender of 300k, he demob them to work in the lands as he didnt have enough provisions to have such a huge number of standing army.

As much as it was accept that liu bei attract many talents due to his righteous but dont u think it very strange cao cao have more and better talents. When cao cao have xun yu, he was just a small warlord in chenliu with only 5k men. with only xiahou brothers and cao ren/hong, his followers beome larger with enemy generals surrender to him. Just look at Zhang Liao, another righteous general, good buddy of guan yu yet served under the "evil" cao cao, it just dont add up.

if he claimed he watch the tv/vcd 4 times, i read the san guo zhi in both english and traditional chinese scripts countless times.

 

[Alamaking]

................................................................................. if he claimed he watch the tv/vcd 4 times, i read the san guo zhi in both english and traditional chinese scripts countless times.

LOL, he dun even want to discuss with me in detail about sanguo, he will only rebutt me with Chengdu economy, LOL :p:p:p

 

[Subok]

LOL, he dun even want to discuss with me in detail about sanguo, he will only rebutt me with Chengdu economy, LOL :p:p:p

I had already said that there will be tear in the middle whichever camp you belong to and I don’t intend to convert u.

Actually I wanted to write a simple thesis regarding the difference between Cao Cao and Zhuge Liang but I stop after cao cao worshipers would want it otherwise no matter what.

In this episode of RTK, if you really really do your homework - Cao Cao is the main character that this film is featuring and not the rest. Reason? In this show they are trying to re-look at the history of defining who was traditionally perceived as "GOOD" and "EVIL", therefore here in this new series of RTK, a new term emerges.

The use of HERO and an Ambitious leader aka 英雄 versus 枭雄. Here the focus is on how Cao Cao though not traditionally knows as a "HERO", he is still after all a 枭雄. Please go and read up on the show spynosis.

Chengdu would not have its day if not for Zhuge Liang push for its development and this is a KNOWN fact in Szechuan. Your inability to link the studies of geomagnetism and geography by Zhuge Liang to current date uses shows your lack of in depth knowledge of history.

Yi Zhong Tian although is a known Cao Cao supporter but why I point you to him is because NEITHER did he degrade the contribution of Zhuge Liang. And just for your info, it was known in the Chinese Scholastic Circles, Yi Zhong Tian make headlines often by taking sides and thesis of those least agreed by the masses. In the scholastic field he was able to emerge and survive with often what the conventional view as abstract. In saying so, I believe Yi Zhong Tian open a new perspective of how in depth studies can be made to a Character otherwise written off by majority. And even I had said that Cao Cao "deserve a STAR in the Hollywood walk as as Hall of fame" just as his place in history but Zhuge Liang surpasses that. Even Cao Cao before his death ordered that there be numerous grave and tombstone all linked to him and his real burial ground be kept secret. Why?

Zhuge Liang and Cao Cao, both are of almost the same make maybe only a few cuts above each other in their respective field. If you do a comparison study of both their lives, they are alike in many ways, e.g. both are great Prime Ministers, military strategist and both harbors ambition to unit the whole of China.

Again I say - Cao Cao will be mentioned in the same breath in history or honor you would ascribe to people like Wu Sangu, He Shen, Yuan Shikai, Mao Zedong etc etc etc (You add to the list yourself) in fact, I would even say in the same breath Cao Cao was as great a leader and visionary as Mr Lee Kuan Yew. Both accomplished and succeeded in their visionary leadership BUT Zhuge Liang does not stand in the same pedestal.

People who are pragmatic and result orientated will often favor Cao Cao and gang, whereas dreamers and idealist often side with Liu Bei and gang. How many times in the chronicles of the Three Kingdom that people got frustrated over Liu Bei's idealist and righteous appeal? Even today, there will still be people, myself inclusive, that would get frustrated over Liu Bei EQ over IQ. But on the other side, Cao Cao in order to win a war or even to save his own backside sacrifices his own people for his own sake?

My choice and my stand is no matter how great a leader Cao Cao is/was, I rather erred on Human goodness than to worship "greatness" for the sake of greatness with no regards for human life.

We can present a softer side of history of Cao Cao making him a 枭雄 rather than a villain just as some would even praise Adolf Hitler of persecuting the Jews. Without lengthy speech, these 枭雄 such as Cao Cao, Hitler, or Prophet Mohammad! These people are people of greatness. Like Prophet Mohammad, he was a MAN of his time. Why? The majority of Arabs then were mostly mountain bandits and nomadic tribes. Often they were a disorganized group of people but it took a supposed "uneducated" Mohammad that gave them a religion call 'ISLAM', a new "biblical' or "Judaism"bloodline to Abraham through the linage of Ishmael, borne with Abraham and his maid Hagar. The latter rallied them together as a formidable force to be reckoned with. And much of the preaching of Islam then was done not by the month but by their crescent shaped Sabre wielded on the hands of these once mountain bandits. All thanks and but no thanks to the prophet, we have what the extremist Islamic would call "Jihad" and it has its roots here...

So Alamaking and the rest of Darth Vader sympathizers, your hero is your "Hero". It however does not in anyway dictates who IMHO who my Hero is. Fact for facts, point for points, if Cao Cao was a true Hero embodied with the "benevolence" and "righteousness" then in the same breath, I put it to you, so was Adolf Hitler!

Heroes that put the lives of THEIR OWN at their feet as a footstool to their higher aims DO NOT deserve to be heroes but 枭雄 as what the shows try to present. Therefore in this new episode of RTK, they tried to vindicate Cao Cao as to present the less evil side of his dictatorship but rather emphasizes on Cao Cao's political achievement, BUT the show fell short or even history for it matter, addressing Cao Cao as “当世英雄”.

However, we need Cao Cao, because without Cao Cao, we have no measure of goodness against Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang. For without Cao Cao, we will not be able to differential black and white, for every fiddler played, we need a dancer.

In conclusion, it was the same "benevolence" and "goodness" that indirectly causes the downfall of Han Dynasty. Because it was of the same "benevolence" and "goodness" that placed the weaker Liu on the throne. For it was the same "benevolence" and "goodness" that causes the downfall of the empire of Shu. Yet in the same light, it was in the same "evil" and "ambitious aspirations" that causes the downfall of Cao Cao, the same "evil" and "ambitious aspirations" saw the former descendants fall right through the acclaimed "golden age" almost immediately after former's death.

All in all, Cao Cao's mantra had always been "宁我负天下也不让天下负我“ while Liu Bei's mantra “天下负我我也不负天下”

But if you examine carefully, both mantras are of the same energy but of the direct opposing force. Put Cao Cao at the place where he is accorded for in history, put him in whatever place you want in your heart. I cannot dictates how you place him in your heart but you can never ever negate the FACT that he WAS never a celebrated HERO.

Though we cannot deny that there were many talent serving under Cao Cao's camp, just as we would refuse to recognize it that there are many good people serving in PAP, does it make a wrong more right than before?

Idolizing is not wrong but denying truth in its rightful place is.

For those who agree and worship Cao Cao, I hope you would not lay waste the blood of your KINS, FRIENDS, COMPATRIOTS whom you would "kill" with immediacy for your own cause.

 

[Subok]

BTW, if you notice, Cao Cao's love for talented individual was solely for the porpose of FURTHERING his ambition and not because that individual was talented. Often he could not have these talented individuals succumbed to him, he rather have them killed than to see these people serving other warlords. Even for Guan Yu, a highly priced "talented" individual by Cao Cao, later when he knew he could not have Guan Yu, he did not have any qualms about having Guan Yu killed by Sun Quan.

 

[Alamaking]

In this episode of RTK, if you really really do your homework - Cao Cao is the main character that this film is featuring and not the rest. Reason? In this show they are trying to re-look at the history of defining who was traditionally perceived as "GOOD" and "EVIL", therefore here in this new series of RTK, a new term emerges.

You are wrong, this version of ROTK focus more on Sima Yi, though they didnt portray Cao Cao as a "villain". I watch finished liao, have you? (lol, sorry, just following your pattern :p:p)

Other than that, i have no comment, my questions to you were left unanswered in my previous post, so i got no obligation to comment this time, especially to someone who said 5 tigers exist and Liu Bei's wife is Xiao Qiao :p:p:p

 

[wikiphile]

BTW, if you notice, Cao Cao's love for talented individual was solely for the porpose of FURTHERING his ambition and not because that individual was talented. Often he could not have these talented individuals succumbed to him, he rather have them killed than to see these people serving other warlords. Even for Guan Yu, a highly priced "talented" individual by Cao Cao, later when he knew he could not have Guan Yu, he did not have any qualms about having Guan Yu killed by Sun Quan.

Either that or he's just queer, that is so obvious, even Sima Zhao would know that 曹操之心， 司马昭皆知！

 

[sleaguepunter]

u already mix up friction with real history. I dunno who is yi zhong tian until i stumble on to this thread. despite being label as dark vader supporter, i believe most of us are not going to claim that cao cao is a farking good ruler but to do away with the false labels that were put on his head.

u keep harping on cao cao step on his soldiers during his escape form battle of chibi but u forgotten to that liu bei used the peasants as human shields in his escape from xinye. if liu bei was so loyal, then he should have at least attempt to rescure guan yu who was surrounded in xiapi. In the numerous battle that he lost, he abandon his troops to escape the battlefield.

please be rational, a man who have ambition for great achievement will have to be ruthless at times. Which "heros" of the past didnt not make a mistake. Li Shimin was a hero but he killed his elder brother and took over the throne from his father. what about liu bei ancestor liu bang, is he a hero? like liu bei, liu bang also label as a "general who lose a hundred battlës", the only battle he won turn him into the emperor of han. what did he do after that? why he killed most of his followers after that in order to secure his throne. But was liu bang a hero in histroy, yes he was. What set cao cao different from this bunch of heros was that he sway, his histroy kenna written into a novel to be read by the masses while the rest were ignored by the masses.

as for your beloved zhuge liang, not all the inventions "credited"to him are invented by him. most famous is the crossbow, the crossbow were already use during the warring states, it one of the weapon credited that enable Qin to dominate the rest. All zhuge liang did was improve on it. as for the fengshui, sorry i not interested as it not scientitic. And by the way, chengdu was already there way before liu bei enter the "guan" so how can u credit zhuge liang with "founding" the city? maybe u can credit him planning a new city layout but to said he founded the city after surveying the terrrain is a bit far fetch. As for he a good stategic general, i not sure as he make many tatical errors along the way. Sun Tze "know yourself, know your enemy and will win hundred battles" were not follow by zhuge liang. Ma Su is a bloody good example of him not knowing the ablilites and attitude of his generals. Next was why he left guan yu at jingzhou despite knowing guan yu have a attitude problem. Why not send zhao yun who is just as good in leading an army and can follow order to the point after Bashu was pacified. And most of all, during his northern campagins, he has less troops and less provisions than his oppenents, he may be good but his top generals are not as good as the enemy. By then, he only left with zhao yun and wei yan yet he still insist on his nothern campaigns, he should have reserve and build on his strength and mount limited campaigns to improve his positions in order for his "bei fa" to success.

so to see histroy must see from both sides of the book, put yourself in the character shoe. History was studies in order to learn from the past, capturing the good part and learn the mistake from the past. So if one wear a blinker when study history then it as good as never read.

 

[Wang Ye]

Either that or he's just queer, that is so obvious, even Sima Zhao would know that 曹操之心， 司马昭皆知！

Looks like we got to sent you for chinese RTK remedial.

 

[sleaguepunter]

BTW, if you notice, Cao Cao's love for talented individual was solely for the porpose of FURTHERING his ambition and not because that individual was talented. Often he could not have these talented individuals succumbed to him, he rather have them killed than to see these people serving other warlords. Even for Guan Yu, a highly priced "talented" individual by Cao Cao, later when he knew he could not have Guan Yu, he did not have any qualms about having Guan Yu killed by Sun Quan.

u r picking bones from an egg. guan yu is a enemy for pete sake, how the hell cao cao going to save guan yu when guan yu was capture by sun quan. Your righteous liu bei also excuted many enemy generals who refuse to surrender, so is liu bei a evil man? pls call a spade a spade. cao cao killed talents = evil but liu bei who did the same thing = righteous. so bloody unfair.

 

[Wang Ye]

All the same strongly suggest reading their official bios in San Guozhi. Fact and fiction will all be revealed. It is surprising how much "fact" believed by many is nothing more than fiction.

For those who want to read it in english http://kongming.net/novel/bios/

PS: All translators are non-professionals but in general have done a reasonably good job. Enjoy.

One reason why there are people who do not like professor Yi Zhongtian is that his views and analysis offended their idea of history.

 

[Subok]

You are wrong, this version of ROTK focus more on Sima Yi, though they didnt portray Cao Cao as a "villain". I watch finished liao, have you? (lol, sorry, just following your pattern :p:p)

Other than that, i have no comment, my questions to you were left unanswered in my previous post, so i got no obligation to comment this time, especially to someone who said 5 tigers exist and Liu Bei's wife is Xiao Qiao :p:p:p

you are really a butt, please go and do your proper research. This FILM is about CAO CAO not SIMA YI. you cannot even get this basic fact right and you claim you are an evangelist of your hero?

My mistakes in the details, however these details are not the fundamentals of my argument. As I had said it can be 30 or even a million tigers. As for the Xiao Qiao and Lady the mixed up does not negate in anyways Liu Bei was buried together with the former.

now we understand why there will always be a 66% pro-PAP.

 

[Subok]

u r picking bones from an egg. guan yu is a enemy for pete sake, how the hell cao cao going to save guan yu when guan yu was capture by sun quan. Your righteous liu bei also excuted many enemy generals who refuse to surrender, so is liu bei a evil man? pls call a spade a spade. cao cao killed talents = evil but liu bei who did the same thing = righteous. so bloody unfair.

Apologies, I was thrown the bones then I am accused of bone picking?

Please my advise is people who want to know what and why this new RTK is produced please go read more. Key contention point like 英雄 versus 枭雄 a new term introduced specifically for this film to redeem the general perceived character of Cao Cao. this in fact would be in favor of most darth vader worshipers that their hero is therefore redeem to be political prodigy rather than a straight forward villain.

Like I said, and many I believe skim through it, Liu Bei had his share of idiosyncrasies that led to his eventual downfall and I had stated categorically, I rather ERRED on part of human goodness of Liu Bei than to "exalt" the greatness of Cao Cao conniving nature.

I prescribed to Cao Cao what was due to him, i.e. his place and role in History but it will not in anyways divert my disapproval of his ways.

In a simple start point, all started off from the same tangent, but how each an every "heroes" eventually reach their own goals and aspirations are up for disagreement here. In order to succeed, some resort to unscrupulous methods, some rather be wronged than to do wrong. It's about choices. I DID not in anyways insist that my views ARE the LAW. And even History are up for debates. My take is however based not only in chronicled readings BUT circumstantial and existential evidence of current time. Whether folklore or actual history, it didn't change the fact that Cao Cao until of recent "enlightenment" by clans of Darth Vader worshipers and pragmatic 66 of PAP, has always been noted as a 枭雄. Just as many other枭雄 of our times. These 枭雄 are needed for some - the betterment of mankind, but I rather believe is for their own good.

We can fight until your mother twist your wretched ear for plying internet, nothing changes. Cao Cao IS a 枭雄. In the words quoted from the movie, "In the past, you may misunderstood me, even now, you may misunderstand me, in the future you still will misunderstand me, but I am still me and I need no your canonization of who I am" and with that note, Cao Cao had his bodied hidden away with any many as 8 decoys tomb dedicated in his name. IF you all Darth Vader sympathizers, are SO knowledgeable, do you know that Cao Cao grave was discovered only in recent years? and even that some Chinese archeologists still doubt its authenticity, why? cause found too many decoys.

Cao Cao never hid his conniving nature, he knew, that was the price he was willing to pay. Just as he proclaimed, Liu Bei seek to rule the hearts of men, Cao Cao seek to rule over them - one of power.

And for the benefit of those who professed their great love for their "heroes", in ancient Chinese history, only those who rule with Iron fist and for fear of repercussion that their final resting place be disturbed, deface, and desecrated will have many many many decoys grave sites. At least for Cao Cao, he knew HE WOULD suffer the wrath of people of whom enmity he started when he die. For that, I concur, that indeed Cao Cao was a great man with great foresight - even "events" after his death.

Ancient leaders in Chinese history do not get elevated to status of God or demi-god for that matters, and I believe of which Cao Cao was NONE. However "scumbag" in the view of many of Darth vader sympathizers, Liu bei is a patron god of shoe makers in China especially Szechuan.

Cao Cao took offense of talents that serve his enemies, likewise I took offense of him using his ingenuity to serve his own end, albeit blood of kinsman, soldiers, officers, etc, Those who stood by him.

Guess Satanist would glad offer their own blood to be drunk by demons as this act is an honor prescribed to the worshipers.

You had rendered me speechless, not because of your FACTS and KNOWLEDGE, but your insurmountable believe in your perceived HERO, which greatly rival that of mine towards my own choice. My greatness respect for holding your ground. But even that, it would not change a FACT that Cao Cao, was a 枭雄.

And lastly for that dumbo out there who insist this show is about SIMA YI, go back to your cartoons. Apparently "adult themes" movie is inappropriate for you.

 

[Ramseth]

...righteous liu bei also excuted many enemy generals who refuse to surrender, so is liu bei a evil man? pls call a spade a spade. cao cao killed talents = evil but liu bei who did the same thing = righteous. so bloody unfair.

I can't recall Liu Bei personally carrying out or ordering any execution. (Refresh my memory if I've missed something.) Zhuge Liang famously ordered two executions, against Guan Yu (pardoned) and Ma Su (executed).

Guan Yu and Zhang Fei were the butchers of the Three Kingdoms by head count. They themselves died without their heads on their necks.

 

[sleaguepunter]

first of all, i didnt watch this new tv drama, so please dont give me lesson on it as i dont know what u toking about.

first, i didnt said cao cao a hero, u r the one harping on it. since u totally believe in what u said, then there no point in debating as u believe cao cao is a plain villain. by the way, cao cao is a qian xiong, not a xiao xiong. totally different meaning.

My take is however based not only in chronicled readings BUT circumstantial and existential evidence of current time. Whether folklore or actual history, it didn't change the fact that Cao Cao until of recent "enlightenment" by clans of Darth Vader worshipers and pragmatic 66 of PAP, has always been noted as a 枭雄. Just as many other枭雄 of our times. These 枭雄 are needed for some - the betterment of mankind, but I rather believe is for their own good.

huh? my england not powderful but u mean i am a pap supporter because u proclaim i am a cao cao worshipper?

no nice to put label on ppl head just becuz he/she disagree with u. the only ppl i know who do this is the governing party.

have a nice day.