MM wife has just passed away.

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

W

Cheers.

Name the fishing villages that were in existence in Singapore when the PAP stormed into parliament? What was the population of Singapore then? How many fishermen were in Singapore then?

 

[kingrant]

We were correcting erroneous versions of Singapore's history, but you drifted away talking abt yr travels and comparing with other countries, which we don't see how the two are related. Then I had some recommended history books for you to catch up on (for yr benefit), and these are books not written by me or LKY or the ST. they have been cited as sources and references in by serious researchers . Blublob then asked you to substantiate yr finds if you thought yr hisotry version is more authentic, but you now start shifting your position and try to dodge the issue.

If you are really serious to educate yrself and not make a fool of yrself, do pick up my reading tips. It'll broaden your horizons more than those travels you have wasted yr money on. You have to learn to have a life outside what you constantly hear from the PAP.

Bottomline is, we agree that LKY and the PAP have made some substantial contribution to our history, but in case you dont know, LKY only came to power in govt only after 1959. There is a long history before LKY made his presence right up to the time Raffles - Sir Stamford raffles - landed. Yes, Singapore was a fishing village when Raffles landed, but not in 1959. Hey, I hope you can count - between 1959 and 1819 there are 140 years!

Why don't you enlighten people like me more on your travels and your observations? Then I think we can take it from there... But for the time being...I think this issue has been going on too "wild".

My observations on the world may differ from yours... What I see as white may be black to you... I don't know what is your age group but the people that I talk to are usually from all walks of life... And I shan't debat further.

I just like to know and understand your observations and perceptions of a better world...

Cheers.

 

[UpYoz_olo]

If you have proof that LKY brought Singapore from NOTHING to its' present state (like you claimed), SG was a fishing village prior to LKY, the government is doing their best, we are lucky compared to developed nations, plus all other claims in your posts, then please produce them. If you don't (and can't), then may I suggest you heed Kingrant's advice and read some proper history books.

Also may I suggest you expand your travel beyond backwater countries. Go see some real, developed first world countries and then return and tell us if you still think we are the most fortunate in the world. Comparing ourselves with poor countries is a favorite tactic used by the government to con foolish people who take everything they say hook, line and sinker.

I am not from the opposition but with Singaporeans like you, I am truly concerned.

1st I like to fuck papsmearer and his entire family. He knows the reason.

All anti-pap green eye opposition cock suckers kindly note:

when singapore gained independence in 1965, there are some countries/cities that were ahead of sg in standard of living and per capital income. fast forward to 2010, you won't want to live in some of these entities. colombo, lebanon comes to mind. all you oppo cock suckers please go there and find your utopia.

the 66.6% are very happy at where they are, including me.

i luv pap! banzai! kekekekekekekeke, and fuck GMS and his monkeys! ka pui!

:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

1st I like to fuck papsmearer and his entire family. He knows the reason.

All anti-pap green eye opposition cock suckers kindly note:

when singapore gained independence in 1965, there are some countries/cities that were ahead of sg in standard of living and per capital income. fast forward to 2010, you won't want to live in some of these entities. colombo, lebanon comes to mind. all you oppo cock suckers please go there and find your utopia.

the 66.6% are very happy at where they are, including me.

i luv pap! banzai! kekekekekekekeke, and fuck GMS and his monkeys! ka pui!

:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

You must be a desperate fool to compare with Colombo and Lebanon. Let's compare with Malaysia. Many there own their own homes and do not need to take up 20 year mortgages to do so. Their monthly outlay for mortgages are also much less compared to us in terms of percentage of their salaries. Their downtown areas do not flood during heavy rains. They can retire before they reach the age of 60. They have affordable healthcare unlike Singapore where you even patients have to sleep along corridors because there aren't enough beds and if you are not warded, you will have to wait months before seeing a government specialist regardless if you are suffering from extreme pain.

 

[kingrant]

Don't be another dumbo rambo. We are talking about Singapore before 1959. Nothing to do with how clever Singapore is or was in 1965. Let yr fingers do some walking and go find out what conditions colombo, lebanon were in cf. with Singapore - in 1959 and before.

Even if a 1965 singapore is world no. 1, why would the fact changed that Singapore was not a fishing village when LKY formed the govt. Coudl I have missed the part where he was born in a kelong off Telok Kurau?

1st I like to fuck papsmearer and his entire family. He knows the reason.

All anti-pap green eye opposition cock suckers kindly note:

when singapore gained independence in 1965, there are some countries/cities that were ahead of sg in standard of living and per capital income. fast forward to 2010, you won't want to live in some of these entities. colombo, lebanon comes to mind. all you oppo cock suckers please go there and find your utopia.

the 66.6% are very happy at where they are, including me.

i luv pap! banzai! kekekekekekekeke, and fuck GMS and his monkeys! ka pui!

:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[UpYoz_olo]

You must be a desperate fool to compare with Colombo and Lebanon. Let's compare with Malaysia. Many there own their own homes and do not need to take up 20 year mortgages to do so. Their monthly outlay for mortgages are also much less compared to us in terms of percentage of their salaries. Their downtown areas do not flood during heavy rains. They can retire before they reach the age of 60. They have affordable healthcare unlike Singapore where you even patients have to sleep along corridors because there aren't enough beds and if you are not warded, you will have to wait months before seeing a government specialist regardless if you are suffering from extreme pain.

sorry to deflate your malaysia. in matland is so good, please explain why the army of malaysians in their mosquito 2-wheels swarming into sg every dawn and fleeing sg every dusk. it should be the other way round if matland is better than sg!

CCB

:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

sorry to deflate your malaysia. in matland is so good, please explain why the army of malaysians in their mosquito 2-wheels swarming into sg every dawn and fleeing sg every dusk. it should be the other way round if matland is better than sg!

CCB

:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

For the same reason that they rather stay in their homeland than to make Singapore their home. For the same reason companies expand overseas.

There is nothing to say which side is better off simply by looking at where they work. Rather it is where they rather live and retire which speaks volumes of where they think is a better place.

Just look at the number of Singaporeans living in JB. Just look at the number of Singaporeans going to JB to do their groceries.

Your fascist PAP regime has sold off the country to almost any bidder. You are up for sale too seeing that your level of incompetence at debating over simple issues puts you in a very gullible position.

You do know that you have an expiry date don't you? Fascist regimes such as the PAP will not care for those that cannot contribute to the economy or the party.

 

[xyhan]

We were correcting erroneous versions of Singapore's history, but you drifted away talking abt yr travels and comparing with other countries, which we don't see how the two are related. Then I had some recommended history books for you to catch up on (for yr benefit), and these are books not written by me or LKY or the ST. they have been cited as sources and references in by serious researchers . Blublob then asked you to substantiate yr finds if you thought yr hisotry version is more authentic, but you now start shifting your position and try to dodge the issue.

If you are really serious to educate yrself and not make a fool of yrself, do pick up my reading tips. It'll broaden your horizons more than those travels you have wasted yr money on. You have to learn to have a life outside what you constantly hear from the PAP.

Bottomline is, we agree that LKY and the PAP have made some substantial contribution to our history, but in case you dont know, LKY only came to power in govt only after 1959. There is a long history before LKY made his presence right up to the time Raffles - Sir Stamford raffles - landed. Yes, Singapore was a fishing village when Raffles landed, but not in 1959. Hey, I hope you can count - between 1959 and 1819 there are 140 years!

I want to thank you for your recommended books for reading BUT I am afraid I don't have time to read such books. I would like to leave it to the younger generation. I may...IF I have the time.

Where I am coming from is the Contributions done by our founding fathers since Independence till now.. This is a fact that we can't dispute...Right? Singaporeans also have a hand in Nation Building. I am not urguing about the time before Independence... I look at the situation surrounding our Departure from Malaya and how we ( as Singapore ) progressed till today... That's all. I have no orginal intention to go deep into Donkey years of history.. I am not doing a PHD on History of Singapore.

I was very taken aback by the out burst of some Brothers upon the passing of MRS LEE . I felt that we should accord some form of RESPECT even for those we don't like when they pass on. At least that's what my parents thought me.

What I did was just to give my two cents worth and what I got from some Brothers...all those outburst of FUCK YOU, FUCK OFF , MORON, ALL KINDS OF NAMES...I just don't understand, if everyone is so learned, then why such treatment? Just like you, you reason out to me and even I may disagree, I will sit down and look at what you have to say rationally and correct my thoughts ( if needed ).

Anyway, thank you again Brothers for your feedback to me...be it in anger or calmness... I will have to call it a day from this Topic in this Forum bec. I see that it gets me no where.....

Cheers.

 

[Papsmearer]

1st I like to fuck papsmearer and his entire family. He knows the reason.

All anti-pap green eye opposition cock suckers kindly note:

when singapore gained independence in 1965, there are some countries/cities that were ahead of sg in standard of living and per capital income. fast forward to 2010, you won't want to live in some of these entities. colombo, lebanon comes to mind. all you oppo cock suckers please go there and find your utopia.

the 66.6% are very happy at where they are, including me.

i luv pap! banzai! kekekekekekekeke, and fuck GMS and his monkeys! ka pui!

:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

U want to fuck me with what? You can only find your lancheow with a tweezer. Maybe u can fuck a spider, that's it.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Troll,

Are you even a second generation Singapore, or just a first generation?

Your this kind of trolling attempt is not getting anywhere. Unless you are merely an attention seeker, in which case you'd better enjoy the attention while it lasts.

You don't sound intelligent. Which school did you come from?

No ...there is no CUM that you are talking about....I do not know how old are you? There are certain policies that I may not agree to....but tthen here again, look at the countries around us.....That's the reason why I dare to say that my Family and I are fortunate to be Singaporeans... I STRONGLY belief that our Government is trying their very best ....

Even one of our Opposition MP said before....The Government has a job to do and my job as an Opposition MP is to do check and balance and ask questions where there are doubts that the Government is not doing their job properly.. We don't just oppose for the sake of opposing.

Honestly speaking, It is not easy for us ...normal people to just jump into conclusions that our Present PAP Government is not doing a good job of Governing Singapore... Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion.... But as for me and my family, I still think that we are very lucky to be Singaporeans....I travel and live abroard for work and I know how lucky we are ...Singaporeans....

Sorry, just my two cents worth.. No Offence...

 

[blueblobster]

Why don't you enlighten people like me more on your travels and your observations? Then I think we can take it from there... But for the time being...I think this issue has been going on too "wild".

My observations on the world may differ from yours... What I see as white may be black to you... I don't know what is your age group but the people that I talk to are usually from all walks of life... And I shan't debat further.

I just like to know and understand your observations and perceptions of a better world...

Cheers.

There are enough posts on the Emigration folder if you are keen to know why living in places like OZ or Canada is better than SG. There is even a cut and paste queen who loves to post news of crimes and other bad news in Vancouver to provide you with a balanced view.

You, however, were the one who wrote that SG is better than many places you visited so the onus is on you to substantiate your comments. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that you are likely comparing SG with many less developed countries. This is a common tactic used by the PAP. However, they and their supporters conveniently forget that they are paid more than first world salaries and need to be judged accordingly. In this regard, I would say they have failed miserably since the 90s.

This thread has not gone "wild". It's only wild to you because you cannot back up your initial claims with real evidence when questioned. It is also worth noting that you were the one who challenged the anti- PAP camp to provide proof yet at the same time, failed to do so when I throw the challenge back to you. Instead you asked me for my travel experience. Had I responded to that, we would have gone off tangent, allowing you to get away after making your initial claims.

You sound like a reasonable man from your posts. So please do not resort to another classic PAP tactic of bringing in irrelevant subjects and throwing the ball everywhere except in their own court.

While everyone can have a different opinion about the countries they visit, the condition in Singapore at the time of independence is well established and not an opinion. Ditto for the extent of the PAP's contribution since.

You asked for proof from others, failing which you will say they are wrong. Now apply the same standard to yourself and substantiate your claims. Do not apply double standard like the PAP.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I want to thank you for your recommended books for reading BUT I am afraid I don't have time to read such books. I would like to leave it to the younger generation. I may...IF I have the time.

Where I am coming from is the Contributions done by our founding fathers since Independence till now.. This is a fact that we can't dispute...Right? Singaporeans also have a hand in Nation Building. I am not urguing about the time before Independence... I look at the situation surrounding our Departure from Malaya and how we ( as Singapore ) progressed till today... That's all. I have no orginal intention to go deep into Donkey years of history.. I am not doing a PHD on History of Singapore.

No doubt about that. In order to measure the Contributions of our "founding fathers" since independence, we must look at things in proper objective perspective.

To be objective, we must examine in RELATIVE TERMS the situation and conditions that Singapore was in just prior to independence.

Singapore was the CROWN COLONY of the British Empire just prior to independence. If you don't know what CROWN COLONY is, just google for it. As CROWN COLONY, Singapore was given top priority in terms of infrastructure investment and development. It practically means that Singapore was the MOST DEVELOPED place in South East Asia prior to independence. i.e. We are definitely not some imaginary "fishing village" as we are made to believe when we gained independence.

There are statistics to prove this point actually. There are records of how many kilometers of meta roads (for cars), the number of cars, buildings per square kilometers etc. We were already the main supply base for ships, with huge silos built to store oil for ships etc. That is why when the Japanese bombed Singapore during WWII, they hit the silo base and it caught fire.

No other places in SEA has such sophisticated infrastructure than Singapore. Singapore became the processing centre for most raw materials gathered in the region, from timber mills to rubber processes.

In short, PAP was given a good head start, in terms of infrastructure endowment, in comparison with the region. It is only natural that Singapore will progress faster than anyone else in this region as long as any ruling party didn't screw up badly.

No matter what, these are indisputable historical facts. Yes, PAP has contributed much in the progress of Singapore along with the contributions of all Singaporeans at that time. But we must not go off tangent in exaggerating whatever contributions made.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[xyhan]

Troll,

Are you even a second generation Singapore, or just a first generation?

Your this kind of trolling attempt is not getting anywhere. Unless you are merely an attention seeker, in which case you'd better enjoy the attention while it lasts.

You don't sound intelligent. Which school did you come from?

Why don't for a start, you tell me which school did you come from? And does it matter? I DO NOT NEED TO GET ATTENTION FROM YOU BROTHERS...I have been living a colourful life that do not need attention.. I do not have to tell you who I really am? If you think that I don't sound intelligent, so be it.

All I can tell you is that even at my age, I am still learning everyday, every minute even from brothers like you...whether rational or irrational....

It really has been a very good learning experience for me these fews days interacting with Brothers in this Forum. I wish to take my leave from this topic in this Forum.. Perhaps in future when there are less sensitive topics , I will contribute my two cents worth.

Thank you Brothers for enlightening me...

Cheers.

 

[xyhan]

[QUOTE=Goh Meng Seng;

Thank you for your insight into the Surrounding Events before and after Indenpendence Till Now.. At least these kind of interaction is what I expect a Forum to be.. I fully accept your views and this has been educational for me. Thank God you did outburst at me with all those 4 letter words....

Cheers and looking forward to future learning on less sensitive topics...

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

don't run away. If you want to learn then there is more.

Here is another one for you. Singapore has the highest emigration rate in the world when you exclude nations at war. Why do you think so many Singaporeans have left Singapore?

Go an ask around why Lee and Lee were given monopoly for conveyancing fees from HDB purchases for donkey years and this was only relaxed after JBJ questioned LKY in parliament. Suharto was indicted for similar acts. This is called corruption. Thaksin was driven out of the country for similar acts. And yet LKY and his wife are seen as heroes. Something must be amiss don't you think? The fact that the PAP controls the mainstream media should tell you something about what and what doesn't get printed.

 

[xyhan]

don't run away. If you want to learn then there is more.

Here is another one for you. Singapore has the highest emigration rate in the world when you exclude nations at war. Why do you think so many Singaporeans have left Singapore?

Go an ask around why Lee and Lee were given monopoly for conveyancing fees from HDB purchases for donkey years and this was only relaxed after JBJ questioned LKY in parliament. Suharto was indicted for similar acts. This is called corruption. Thaksin was driven out of the country for similar acts. And yet LKY and his wife are seen as heroes. Something must be amiss don't you think? The fact that the PAP controls the mainstream media should tell you something about what and what doesn't get printed.

Thank you for your " education " I am not running away.. I am just calling it a day in the Forum on such sensitive issues... I will nevertheless still read what other brothers like yourself have to say...

I tried giving my views but get " Popped " instead.. Hahahaha

Cheers Brothers

 

[Alamaking]

Wanbao reported got 1 insurance Chiobu visited the the wake, LKY can consider her, quite chio actually, look like Rachel Kum type :p:p

 

[kingrant]

It's very plain and simple. Just answer this simple questiono you still think that LKY took over a fishing village then?

I don't think anybody was denying what happened after Independence. There may have been some trolls who derailed the first argument, but we were all debunking people who kept insisting that LKY took S'pore from a fishing village to First world.

It is all about getting the facts right, not propaganda. If you belong to an older gen, it behooves you to get the facts right so you can properly educate the young and not perpetuate an untruth. Telling the truth is not posting hate posts. The PAP and its running dogs are only too happy to leave such lies unchallenged since they keep citizens tethered to the PAP.

Do Singapore a service - help spread the real truth. Give credit to the colonial administration that governed Singapore after Raffles till self -govt. They made it possible for LKY to come to power.

I want to thank you for your recommended books for reading BUT I am afraid I don't have time to read such books. I would like to leave it to the younger generation. I may...IF I have the time.

Where I am coming from is the Contributions done by our founding fathers since Independence till now.. This is a fact that we can't dispute...Right? Singaporeans also have a hand in Nation Building. I am not urguing about the time before Independence... I look at the situation surrounding our Departure from Malaya and how we ( as Singapore ) progressed till today... That's all. I have no orginal intention to go deep into Donkey years of history.. I am not doing a PHD on History of Singapore.

I was very taken aback by the out burst of some Brothers upon the passing of MRS LEE . I felt that we should accord some form of RESPECT even for those we don't like when they pass on. At least that's what my parents thought me.

What I did was just to give my two cents worth and what I got from some Brothers...all those outburst of FUCK YOU, FUCK OFF , MORON, ALL KINDS OF NAMES...I just don't understand, if everyone is so learned, then why such treatment? Just like you, you reason out to me and even I may disagree, I will sit down and look at what you have to say rationally and correct my thoughts ( if needed ).

Anyway, thank you again Brothers for your feedback to me...be it in anger or calmness... I will have to call it a day from this Topic in this Forum bec. I see that it gets me no where.....

Cheers.

 

[xyhan]

It's very plain and simple. Just answer this simple questiono you still think that LKY took over a fishing village then?

I don't think anybody was denying what happened after Independence. There may have been some trolls who derailed the first argument, but we were all debunking people who kept insisting that LKY took S'pore from a fishing village to First world.

It is all about getting the facts right, not propaganda. If you belong to an older gen, it behooves you to get the facts right so you can properly educate the young and not perpetuate an untruth. Telling the truth is not posting hate posts. The PAP and its running dogs are only too happy to leave such lies unchallenged since they keep citizens tethered to the PAP.

Do Singapore a service - help spread the real truth. Give credit to the colonial administration that governed Singapore after Raffles till self -govt. They made it possible for LKY to come to power.

Like I said before and for the last time...
a. I am not saying and had NEVER SAID BEFORE that MM LEE took over Singapore from a fishing village to a first world.. It's you who is the One who is confussed.

b. I had called it a day from these sensitive issues in this Forum. I had my fair share of deliberation and I still maintain my stand.. ' I AM VERY GRATEFUL AND FORTUNATE TO BE A SINGAPOREAN and even in any company, let alone a Country, there are always people who are not satisfied with Management Policies. You just can't please all.
I have my views and I thank you for your suggestions BUT then again, my children are all young adults who are capable of knowing Black from White..

Thank you once again...May I ask for your understanding that I am calling it a day... Cheers.

 

[blueblobster]

Like I said before and for the last time...
a. I am not saying and had NEVER SAID BEFORE that MM LEE took over Singapore from a fishing village to a first world.. It's you who is the One who is confussed.

b. I had called it a day from these sensitive issues in this Forum. I had my fair share of deliberation and I still maintain my stand.. ' I AM VERY GRATEFUL AND FORTUNATE TO BE A SINGAPOREAN and even in any company, let alone a Country, there are always people who are not satisfied with Management Policies. You just can't please all.
I have my views and I thank you for your suggestions BUT then again, my children are all young adults who are capable of knowing Black from White..

Thank you once again...May I ask for your understanding that I am calling it a day... Cheers.

You are right, you did not say "fishing village". You said something far more ignorant. Your own words ... "he and his Government lead Singapore from a NOTHING to what she is today... " found on http://www.singsupplies.com/showthread.php?t=76383&page=11.

This thread may be 14 pages long and you may think your baseless remarks may be conveniently forgotten. Unfortunately for you, unlike your Pappy masters, you do not have the resources to twist and turn your words. And you may stop the act of being a victim and using civility as an excuse to avoid the issues. How pathetic that you even need to bring in your children to defend yourself. Your ignorance, inability to address issues properly and intelligently as well as a propensity to sidetrack are typical of the unthinking masses.

I do hope your children are more capable than you in critical thinking, reading and research. One thing you are right though... you are indeed very fortunate. Like they say, ignorance is bliss.