Lim Chin Siong was a Communist

[ozeman]

You know me for the arsehole that I am and I guess the rest in the forum know me for the very same reason.

Now to see what else is People Association funding the PAP for.

hey, i think you are being a tad too sensitive leh!') i actually think that you are a pretty cluey chap and a fun guy too. Like you, i too enjoy a robust debate but I only give only credence only when credence is due.

naaah......don't be harsh on yourself. you are certainly no arsehole. I can't say that about locke though.

 

[ozeman]

State welfarism is a Communist concept

In a pure Commie economy, the state keeps all the profit of your work and pays for your living expenses. This way, all citizens are equal.

naah.......i really can't agree with that. state welfarism is actually a humanistic concept where the state cares for the poor and disadvantage and looks after basic needs such as health, education and housing. sweden and the rest of scandinavia are good examples. none of them could be called a commmunist country. it is still capitalism at work and the state does not keep the profit of your work or pay your living expenses.

i actually don't see any of the so called communist country such as russia or china practising any form of state welfarism.

 

[Ah Guan]

naah.......i really can't agree with that. state welfarism is actually a humanistic concept where the state cares for the poor and disadvantage and looks after basic needs such as health, education and housing. sweden and the rest of scandinavia are good examples. none of them could be called a commmunist country. it is still capitalism at work and the state does not keep the profit of your work or pay your living expenses.

They are not commie countries. I'm just highlighting the fact that welfarism has its roots as a commie concept of state taking care of the people. The effects of Communism on developed nations today is more far reaching than most people know. Free public goods and services like parks, shelters, benches etc are all results of Communism.

i actually don't see any of the so called communist country such as russia or china practising any form of state welfarism.

Not sure about the system for workers now, but every retiree is paid pension in China.

 

[ozeman]

They are not commie countries. I'm just highlighting the fact that welfarism has its roots as a commie concept of state taking care of the people. The effects of Communism on developed nations today is more far reaching than most people know. Free public goods and services like parks, shelters, benches etc are all results of Communism.



Not sure about the system for workers now, but every retiree is paid pension in China.

during the colonial days in good old sillypore, we too have free education, free health care and pension for retirees. i wouldn't go as far as to call the british colonialists commies.

 

[eatshitndie]

since this is friday, i shall try to make you happy. btw, have you heard of wassily leontieff??

if you have not, just try googling, hor?

lawrence klein was investigated by the fbi for behaving like a commie and left for britain. he advocated greater intervention by the gov in a more centrally planned economy - neo keynesian.

paul krugman comes across as too far to the left.

 

[scroobal]

Time does fly. Not many will appreciate that its was SBF that broke the political taboos of this country. There was no other website, blog and anything that came close to speaking the unmentionable.In the good old days, it will appear here before it surfaces in SPH tabloids. Have learnt more things in SBF than anywhere else about this country. Credit to people like yourself and many others.

Always good to see you around! SBF has been around for more than a decade - it always seems like yesterday when I first ventured into it. Hopefully, in the next ten years, many will still be around... familiarity brings back fond memories.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

State welfarism is a Communist concept

In a pure Commie economy, the state keeps all the profit of your work and pays for your living expenses. This way, all citizens are equal.

Dear Ah Guan,

State Welfarism is NOT a Communist Concept but rather Socialist concept.

Welfarism is treated as an "equalizer" when one realize that the FREE MARKET will tend to skewed unevenly towards the rich and powerful. While we still need the free market mechanism to price efficiently but we must also realize that such mechanism has its folly in terms of social-political context.

In Communism, you don't really need State Welfarism because everybody is supposedly to be "EQUAL" already, even though it means "EQUALLY POOR".

Goh Meng Seng

 

[ozeman]

lawrence klein was investigated by the fbi for behaving like a commie and left for britain. he advocated greater intervention by the gov in a more centrally planned economy - neo keynesian.

paul krugman comes across as too far to the left.

thanks for the input. i was just entertaining scroobal.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, will try and explain.

Economics hinges very strongly on optimal allocation of valuable and finite resources. A good economist will always attempt that . A good businessman will usually aim for the highest margin.

Economist therefore are drawn to the concept of equitable distribution of wealth which makes them first and foremost socialist. Communism however is the extreme end of the socialist world and it regarded as Utopian in form.

If you are in this forum, chances are that you are leaning towards socialism. Goh Keng Swee was a socialist and in fact he worked for the Social Service Dept as an Analyst as a civil servant during the British Days. The British were also socialist and thus their welfare system.

There is no such thing as ownership of material goods in communism. All surplus goes to state. If you are schooled in Economics, you will realise that communism has no place in the World how utopian and ultimate the concept is. Its a pie in the sky.

USA is probably the only country that is too far away from socialism - Each man to himself but with the belief that hard work ethics will pay for itself. That Philosophy also drives it gun culture, it mercenary business practices and the clear separation between the individuaol and the state.

It also helps explain individual creativity, high innovation rate and constant drive to beat the competition.

Many belief that to have the best equation in the world is to be a British citizen but do your business in the US, spend your holidays in the Carribean and talk about Scandinavian approach to balance in life.

<style></style>There is something more than mere human psychology at play bro. Now put that against the current globalized village where communism crumbles like a pack of card--Why? Because of lack of understanding of human behavioral pattern aka human psychology ?..There is certainly something more than that.

 

[eatshitndie]

thanks for the input. i was just entertaining scroobal.

no problemo. she needs entertainment. too bored with her masters and the high amount of money they pay her for doing nothing but nitpick on frivolities. signs of a proud virgin.

 

[eatshitndie]

Dear Ah Guan,

State Welfarism is NOT a Communist Concept but rather Socialist concept.

Welfarism is treated as an "equalizer" when one realize that the FREE MARKET will tend to skewed unevenly towards the rich and powerful. While we still need the free market mechanism to price efficiently but we must also realize that such mechanism has its folly in terms of social-political context.

In Communism, you don't really need State Welfarism because everybody is supposedly to be "EQUAL" already, even though it means "EQUALLY POOR".

Goh Meng Seng

the church according to antioch was very communistic btw. and the papalcy today have their own economy.

 

[scroobal]

I don't think you have a clue what is going on. The statement below says it all. Maybe you should stop being entertaining and start reading up.

during the colonial days in good old sillypore, we too have free education, free health care and pension for retirees. i wouldn't go as far as to call the british colonialists commies.

 

[Ah Guan]

Just name a reasonably known economist who is a communist. You said you could?

At risk of flogging a dead horse .... this is your guy --- Lin Yifu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Yifu_Lin

Defected from Taiwan to China in 1979 and rose to become a senior Party member.

Masters degree in Marxist political economy from Beijing U
PhD in Economics from U of Chicago.

Today he is the senior VP of the World Bank

 

[Ah Guan]

Dear Ah Guan,

State Welfarism is NOT a Communist Concept but rather Socialist concept.

Welfarism is treated as an "equalizer" when one realize that the FREE MARKET will tend to skewed unevenly towards the rich and powerful. While we still need the free market mechanism to price efficiently but we must also realize that such mechanism has its folly in terms of social-political context.

In Communism, you don't really need State Welfarism because everybody is supposedly to be "EQUAL" already, even though it means "EQUALLY POOR".

Goh Meng Seng

Thanks Ah Seng... Though I would still argue that Socialism and Communism share common roots

 

[eatshitndie]

At risk of flogging a dead horse .... this is your guy --- Lin Yifu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Yifu_Lin

Defected from Taiwan to China in 1979 and rose to become a senior Party member.

Masters degree in Marxist political economy from Beijing U
PhD in Economics from U of Chicago.

Today he is the senior VP of the World Bank

there's eugen slutsky, russian commie economist who came up with the slutsky equation used in microeconomic consumer theory. many of the reknowned economists are first great theoretical mathematicians. they're mostly utopians because of the math background. and then, there's evsey domar who later became a u.s. citizen.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Thanks Ah Seng... Though I would still argue that Socialism and Communism share common roots

Dear Ah Guan,

No problem. Good time to refresh my Economics knowledge a bit.

Socialism and Communism do share common roots, such as "seeking Fair and Equal" treatment to the common populace who are basically either workers or peasants. In fact, I would consider them as a "reactionary theories" evolved according to the environment that they have back in the ancient feudal system where the rich and powerful landlords, royal families, businessmen ..etc exploited the peasants and workers.

That is why normally Unionists are always related to Leftists or Socialists or even Communists due to this basic belief structure.

However, Communism is considered as a EXTREME FAR LEFT of the whole spectrum. Socialism tries to find the equitable balance by imposing various policies, rules and even welfare; i.e. trying to split the fruits of economic benefits more equally between the capitalists (loosely defined as those businessmen or landlords) and the workers/peasants. To some extend, the socialists will feel that the free market mechanism is still a much needed tool in providing the much needed pricing mechanism. But the Communists view that all forms of capitalists are exploitation and everyone should live in a common community without differentiating their social status. Only then, there will be no class structure or struggle. That would be equal treatment to ALL at the LOWEST denomination.

The root is "Equality, anti-exploitation, taking care of the benefits of the workers" but the approach is very different in nature.

This is why I am not afraid to admit that I am a Democratic Socialist at heart. There is nothing to be afraid or shameful of being Leftist or Socialist.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Nice-Gook]

Bro, will try and explain.

If you are in this forum, chances are that you are leaning towards socialism. Goh Keng Swee was a socialist and in fact he worked for the Social Service Dept as an Analyst as a civil servant during the British Days.

e.

<style></style>You tok alright lady.But about everything else except the relation between human psychology and the failure of communistic economy.I have quarried why does communistic style of management or economy works very well in isolated tribes but not in a global village--that is my question.



Anyhow,glad you sneaked Goh Keng Swee into your post.You call him a socialist har ?Because he worked for Social Service Dept! Goodness , so what would you call people working in the Registry of Death Dept?Hangman !....

Anyway,there is a thin line between a socialist and a communist.And to think Ah Goh your so called socialist was a committee member for the Amalgamation of Trade Unions ; who once in power said labor unions are for working less which demands more-unacceptable in Singapore .!..The same Ah Goh who admonished SG parents for being productive with young dynamic labor force.Whereas every country in the globe now attributes its economical success to its very dynamic and young labor force.---

 

[cowbehcowbu]

we have to differentiate a hard core , soft core, sympathiser, and just ideologist of leftish communism..are socialist communism in some way??..PAP started as a socialist party..that s how PAP got tremendous support from the grass root then..as overhelmingmajority were impoverished after the colonial rule n the WWII...
even in china ..you can find varying shades of socialist. from very very few leftist communism to totally rightist socialist...
there are actually very few in china that believes in Marxist communism...a tru joke by my shanghainese friend...quote''to find a true breed communist in shanghai..go to Nanjing Lu..you will find a insane man talking to himself..HE IS A TRUE COMMUNIST..''

in Singapore[ n malaya ] during n after the war..it was the brave man and women who .may not be communist at all.that joint the malaya communist front to fight the Japs..while the moronic British failed terribly......so we see a lot of leftist hot blooded nyoung man who see the urge and calling to self rile..and fought for it....
so it was a varying shades of grey between black and whites.....almost impossible to labelled and cast anybody as a true marxist communist...
those are turbulent errars..with many ideology group and interest group fighting to establish their course...and the rest was history woven out ..

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

coincidentally this issue became a big talking point one year ago with the collapse(well almost) of the western world's financial system originating from the big daddy of capitalism - wall street...marx's books long since consigned to the dustbin were suddenly coming back into vogue again...alas only for a short time though, which was also predictable...

Dear Scroobal

Marx is still in all basic economics 101 textbooks :_)) He provided a counter balance to the Adam Smith ideal that the Fee Market corrected for everything

He may not have been great in the sense that he was right, he was great because even though he was wrong he contributed to the body of economic theory by bringing attention to a different side of the free market equation.

The very existence of marxism forced capitalism to adapt its economic redistribution policies so that its inherent capitalism contradictions did not destroy itself

Locke

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

it is not 100% clear that chin siong was not with chin peng and the mcp...

.And since Chin Peng was very clear on how to seize control-through armed struggle.And Lim Chin Siong was not with him.Therefore Lim Chin Siong was a ''communist'' as much as LKY or PAP.[/SIZE][/FONT]