Lee Kuan Yew - 2 parties system? I'll be sorry for Singapore

[red amoeba]

U seriously want to compare past achivements? Low held Hougang for a few terms vs LKY who drag SG from 3rd world to first.

I just pointed out a simple fact to counter your question. Why did LKY had to come out and state 2 party system not good. Very simple coz Low's WP election slogan was "Towards a 1st world government" meaning more opposition in Parliament = good. As far as the Old Man is concern, it's a direct counter.

Low isn't one that talk that much sense coz he almost doesn't talk at all in Parliament. You guys seem to be forgetting why WP was called Wayang Party. Coz no action from them, in fact more then a few person in here have constantly called WP PAP dogs by a lot of pple in here because of that before this election. Talk about short term memory

Low isn't a very good Parliamentarian, he doesn't speak very well(mostly due to his Chinese background) and he is pretty lousy at debates(if anyone of you actually bother catching Parliamentary sessions). What he is however is a freaking genius at building a political party and a brilliant political strategies. He is patient, knows how to bid his time, knows when to strike and how to strike. Him leaving Hougang for Aljunied and bringing all this best man with him is a calculated and brilliant move. Like what some of the PAP man said, "blackmailing the Aljunied" resident to vote for them for fear of not having an opposition in Parliament.

His patience can be seen via his performance in Parliament. Keeping quiet in Parliament is not a sign of weakness like how most pple see it. He waits for an opportunity to strike and only talk when he deems appropriate. Chiam was the same, how did U think the 2 survived in Parliament this long. If it was that idiot Chee in Parliament, he wouldn't have lasted 1 term.

===
Have LTK being sued by PAP for defamation? As far as I can remember, no. Being opposition does not mean speaking for the sake of speaking. Oppose for the sake oppose. If a certain policy debated in parliment is for the good of the country, there is no shame in agreeing with ruling party.

The fact that he has held Hougang for more than 2 terms speak something about his capability. I am not a WP supporter but just making an observation. It takes certain courage to vote for someone else rather than PAP. Suppose he was not capable, he won't be returned to parliment after 5 years right? Moreover, he was standing in a SMC- meaning to say, he won the election fair and square.

Has Hougang became a slum in Singapore? Is it infested with rats, dengue? When Leman Brothers and waylaid investments saga struck, Hougang and Potong Pasir was not affected. Hindsight? Or simply becos these two constituencies could not afford to invest we don't know. I don't agree that LTK don't speak very well...i think in fact, he speak well. So what if he is chinese educated? We are still majority Chinese and dialect still remain an integral part of the community. As politician, they are supposed to get down to our level instead of we brushing up on English to listen to them.

I used to like Oh Ah Heng - a PAP MP as well, he is also Chinese educated. Bcos he give me an impression that he is down to earth - he understands the ground. Its perception. I rather have a MP who speaks up on issue rather than speak nonsense or don't talk sense or echoing like parrot in parliment. Speak sense or don't speak.

Whatever manisfesto or political agenda a political party have - the sole objective is for you to vote for them. When WP says vote for us to have an opposition in the parliament, the voters believe him and voted him and his team into the parliament, what does this show? That they genuinely want an opposition in parliament.

When LKY says he is sorry for Singapore if there is a 2 party system - isn't that blackmailing as well?

I agree with you regarding Chee - I will not vote for him, even if he is in WP. I am disappointed with his antics. I appreciate a gentleman fight not challenging like a hooligan.

 

[dankos]

---

Indeed. For the longest time he tried very hard to sound objective in his views, but it is not difficult to spot his inherent pro-PAP stance and bias views towards opposition. eg. he says LTK doesn't speak much in Parliament - which is absolute nonsense. LTK has on many instances rose to the occasion even to debate LKY despite his chinese accented English. It does not take a genius to understand you need to wait for your turn to speak in Parliament, not like the outspoken boy in class who can jump to his feet everytime the teacher asks a question. You could see his clear intent to paint LTK in a bad light depicting him as a mere "clever politician".

fat ass char_azn dog has been exposed many times as a 100% purebreed pap dog. yet he persisted on putting on a neutral front over here. too bad many here already know of this cb fat ass dog pattern.

just becos fat ass dun see ltk much on the pap endorsed news n tv, he assume ltk dun speak much in parliament. thats becos fat ass uses his arse as brain. actually fat ass know ltk fights for sporean rights. but as a pap dog, he must whack ltk n wp. remembered he try to pyscho ppl not to attend wp rallies unless u stay in wards contested by wp. he very scare wp rallies got massive crowds as compared to his beloved pap. he is an absolute asshole. welcome to the club to bash this mother fucker.

 

[Forvendet]

Low isn't one that talk that much sense coz he almost doesn't talk at all in Parliament. You guys seem to be forgetting why WP was called Wayang Party. Coz no action from them, in fact more then a few person in here have constantly called WP PAP dogs by a lot of pple in here because of that before this election. Talk about short term memory

I hope that you've attended every Parliament session to base your assessment of how much LTK has spoken in Parliament, not based on media portrayal. How many people has called WP the Wayang Party? Many, some, few? In recent memory, many voted for LTK and WP, so many that two ministers were knocked out.

Has Hougang became a slum in Singapore? Is it infested with rats, dengue? When Leman Brothers and waylaid investments saga struck, Hougang and Potong Pasir was not affected.

Hougang and PP do have funds to invest as shown in their annual reports. But much smaller sums than PAP TCs as these are two smallish SMC TCs, whereas all PAP TCs are gigantic GRC+SMC TCs. Such (gigantic) TCs attract higher interests smart alec investment advisers to prospect them for more "sophisticated" investments.

 

[Char_Azn]

There are definitely a lot of pple with short term memory in here. The same pple condemning WP as Wayang Party, pple who actively slam them. And go do a search in this or the old forum before 2011. I have actively defended WP's silent stance in Parliament when jokers condemn them(as well as Chiam). There are more then enough instances in this forum so don't go around saying I made up stories about WP not doing much in Parliament

===
Have LTK being sued by PAP for defamation? As far as I can remember, no. Being opposition does not mean speaking for the sake of speaking. Oppose for the sake oppose. If a certain policy debated in parliment is for the good of the country, there is no shame in agreeing with ruling party.

The fact that he has held Hougang for more than 2 terms speak something about his capability. I am not a WP supporter but just making an observation. It takes certain courage to vote for someone else rather than PAP. Suppose he was not capable, he won't be returned to parliment after 5 years right? Moreover, he was standing in a SMC- meaning to say, he won the election fair and square.

Has Hougang became a slum in Singapore? Is it infested with rats, dengue? When Leman Brothers and waylaid investments saga struck, Hougang and Potong Pasir was not affected. Hindsight? Or simply becos these two constituencies could not afford to invest we don't know. I don't agree that LTK don't speak very well...i think in fact, he speak well. So what if he is chinese educated? We are still majority Chinese and dialect still remain an integral part of the community. As politician, they are supposed to get down to our level instead of we brushing up on English to listen to them.

I used to like Oh Ah Heng - a PAP MP as well, he is also Chinese educated. Bcos he give me an impression that he is down to earth - he understands the ground. Its perception. I rather have a MP who speaks up on issue rather than speak nonsense or don't talk sense or echoing like parrot in parliment. Speak sense or don't speak.

Whatever manisfesto or political agenda a political party have - the sole objective is for you to vote for them. When WP says vote for us to have an opposition in the parliament, the voters believe him and voted him and his team into the parliament, what does this show? That they genuinely want an opposition in parliament.

When LKY says he is sorry for Singapore if there is a 2 party system - isn't that blackmailing as well?

I don't think not turning Hougang into a slum not = any achievement. That's called doing his job. I never said he was an incapable MP. I said he wasn't a very good Parliamentarian, one that can bring out good debates in Parliament. Big difference. If you want an example of good opposition parliamentarian, JBJ would be one. If you watch clips on Parliamentary debates, Sylvia Lim, Steve Chia, NCMPs like Siew Kum Hong or even PAP guys like Indejit Singh are the ones who usually spark good debates in Parliament. as an MP, he is at the very least good at doing that job just not so good as far as Parliamentary performance is concern.

As for him speaking, he seem to have a big problem articulating himself whenever he speaks in English. He should use Chinese more during interviews or speeches since that's his strong point. I don't see anything wrong with that. Leave the Ang Moh speech to the Ang Moh speakers like Sylvia or CSM.

And I didn't say it wasn't a blackmail by LKY. It's a direct counter to WP's Blackmail so yeah you can call that PAP's Blackmail if you want to. Like you said whatever they do it's for the purpose of getting into power. What LKY is doing is keeping his party in power. As far as I'm concern, there is no difference between what WP is doing and what LKY said.

As for Chee, I do want to give him some credit. At the very least he is started to turn things around. Of all the opposition parties who campaigned this election. SDP was the most impressive as far as I'm concerned. WP concentrated on telling pple they need a strong opposition and spent more time scolding PAP then telling us what they can do. That's usually SDP's specialty. SDP on the other hand actually bothered to come up proposals on what they want to do and how they want to do it which was what WP did the previous election. Granted many of them are pretty stupid but I think they should continue down this line. Refine what they have. Remove the stupid ones and they can go far. Seriously speaking, this election is weird.

 

[Char_Azn]

I hope that you've attended every Parliament session to base your assessment of how much LTK has spoken in Parliament, not based on media portrayal. How many people has called WP the Wayang Party? Many, some, few? In recent memory, many voted for LTK and WP, so many that two ministers were knocked out.

Even if you ignore ST and read from sites like TR or TOC, there isn't a lot of news coming out of WP performance in Parliament before 2011. In fact TR(an ultra Pro-opposition site) was one of those who actively attack WP before 2011

 

[dankos]

Even if you ignore ST and read from sites like TR or TOC, there isn't a lot of news coming out of WP performance in Parliament before 2011. In fact TR(an ultra Pro-opposition site) was one of those who actively attack WP before 2011

There are more then enough instances in this forum so don't go around saying I made up stories about WP not doing much in Parliament



fat ass,

u stupid or what?? 1 post say u never commented about wp not speaking much in parliament. next post u did it.

retarded lah u.

spare me the rubbish that 'i never say that, i just quoted from other ppl'. i also heard from that thai king pimp tonychat here that his ladyboy wife commented that your prick is shorter than your last finger. she saw that herself when u patronise her. not i say 1 ok, i just quoting her. can :oIo::oIo:

 

[red amoeba]

There are definitely a lot of pple with short term memory in here. The same pple condemning WP as Wayang Party, pple who actively slam them. And go do a search in this or the old forum before 2011. I have actively defended WP's silent stance in Parliament when jokers condemn them(as well as Chiam). There are more then enough instances in this forum so don't go around saying I made up stories about WP not doing much in Parliament

==
i din't quote the entire passage - too long.

LTK has done his job - that is looking after his ward - the Hougang residents are satisifed that he did his job, gave him another mandate. Regardless what you mention regarding SDP, who finally get to fuck the prom queen (ie get into parliment)? Its not how handsome you are, its whether u go home with the prom queen at the end of the day. Why SDP din get to fuck the prom queen this round , is for another thread, another day.

Once again, I am not blowing the trumpet for WP, they manage Hougang within limitations. Likewise for Chiam, who did a very good job is running PP with limited resources and against odds - imagine dealing with various government agencies. Yes, compared to other SMC like Radin Mas, PP or Hougang is not as sexy but they are not slums either.

Yes, LTK may not speak Cambridge english, at least he tried. Likewise, LHL when he speaks Chinese, is not very articulate as well, at least he tried. JBJ is a good speaker, i agree.

What do you define as parliament performance? The MO of parliament is typically, LTK or Chiam speaks, immediately at least 3 PAP MPs will come up to refute them - all echoing what their towkays have said. Minimum wage is one, debate over budget is another - these few i can recall. The law is going to get passed regardless what Low says. Can you recall one law that was put up and not passed?

CSJ - yes, you are right on the count he was one of the first "naughty boy" together with JBJ ..but a few glaring blunders from him make me lose confidence in him.

 

[Char_Azn]

==
What do you define as parliament performance? The MO of parliament is typically, LTK or Chiam speaks, immediately at least 3 PAP MPs will come up to refute them - all echoing what their towkays have said. Minimum wage is one, debate over budget is another - these few i can recall. The law is going to get passed regardless what Low says. Can you recall one law that was put up and not passed?

This I draw comparison with his peers former and current. If you look at some of the arguments put fore by NCMPs like Siew Kum Hong, Steve Chia when he was around and even WP's own Sylvia Lim, the points that LTK brings up definitely pales in comparison. Maybe it's his inability to articulate himself but the end result is still the same. Being "gangbanged" by the PAP is not a good excuse coz the performance of the NCMPs and pple like Chiam and JBJ face the same when they were in Parliament. LTK, good MP, brilliant Political Strategist, not very good Parliamentarian.

As for CSJ and SDP, they have started to change their stance, I hope they continue down the path of reform and not go back to the old ways. We need more pple opposing the ruling party but not do so for the sake of it

 

[dankos]

This I draw comparison with his peers former and current. If you look at some of the arguments put fore by NCMPs like Siew Kum Hong, Steve Chia when he was around and even WP's own Sylvia Lim, the points that LTK brings up definitely pales in comparison. Maybe it's his inability to articulate himself but the end result is still the same. Being "gangbanged" by the PAP is not a good excuse coz the performance of the NCMPs and pple like Chiam and JBJ face the same when they were in Parliament. LTK, good MP, brilliant Political Strategist, not very good Parliamentarian.

As for CSJ and SDP, they have started to change their stance, I hope they continue down the path of reform and not go back to the old ways. We need more pple opposing the ruling party but not do so for the sake of it

There are definitely a lot of pple with short term memory in here. The same pple condemning WP as Wayang Party, pple who actively slam them. And go do a search in this or the old forum before 2011. I have actively defended WP's silent stance in Parliament when jokers condemn them(as well as Chiam). There are more then enough instances in this forum so don't go around saying I made up stories about WP not doing much in Parliament

fat ass caught saying bad stuff about ltk n wp again. so this is how u actively defend wp huh. fuck u pap dog.:oIo::oIo:

 

[red amoeba]

This I draw comparison with his peers former and current. If you look at some of the arguments put fore by NCMPs like Siew Kum Hong, Steve Chia when he was around and even WP's own Sylvia Lim, the points that LTK brings up definitely pales in comparison. Maybe it's his inability to articulate himself but the end result is still the same. Being "gangbanged" by the PAP is not a good excuse coz the performance of the NCMPs and pple like Chiam and JBJ face the same when they were in Parliament. LTK, good MP, brilliant Political Strategist, not very good Parliamentarian.

As for CSJ and SDP, they have started to change their stance, I hope they continue down the path of reform and not go back to the old ways. We need more pple opposing the ruling party but not do so for the sake of it

==
wait a minute, are u for or against one party rule?

 

[Char_Azn]

==
wait a minute, are u for or against one party rule?

U can say I am more for then against although for my case my preferred system would be more a hybrid of the 2. My preferred government would be one there the ruling party(whomever it might be) has enough freedom to do what they need to do and the opposition party is strong enough to take over when the Ruling Party fails.

The current political landscape is too lopsided. PAP too strong, opposition too weak. I want enough voice in Parliament to speak out and oppose but not that even to obstruct progress(see above scenario). However realistically speaking that's not possible if you look at other nations as examples however, when an opposition party grows strong enough, ALL of them without exception will oppose for the sake of it and nitpick on details for the sake of it. When the opposition party is strong enough, the ruling and opposition parties will spend more time bickering then doing any real work. The political parties are usually more party centric then pple centric. Whatever they do it's always to attract vote first then what needs to be done. The biggest failing of a democractic system.

As far as I'm concern I'm not oppose to a 2 party system as long as both parties are able to work together when needed and not oppose for the sake of opposing(yes lala land scenario, will never happen in real life) which is why I am very against pple like CSJ who oppose for the sake of opposing and support pple like Chiam and Low who have shown they will "play nice" with the ruling party when they think it's good.

Given our very unique political landscape I am still hopeful it will turn out different for us. I am against any and all Pro-Partisan politics if it were up to me I would ban all political parties and get everyone to contest elections as individuals.

 

[dankos]

you cb fat ass,

your way of supporting low n chiam is to shoot them on their back with your negative remarks and sarcasm. fuck u ok.

support kee lan. u only support your pap masters. u fucking ccb pap dog :oIo::oIo::oIo:

cb lah fat ass. cut out all the act. your pap cover is blown wide open. u can proceed to eat your pap masters' cum openly. dun shy ok.

 

[Char_Azn]

Blindly supporting Opposition makes U no different from the idiots who blindly support PAP.

I support them by defending them from false accusation and telling my friends why they should vote for them instead of giving pple a false idea of what they are not. Giving them a false image will only disappoint pple who voted for them for something they are not.

 

[Robert Half]

The present SG really need one good opposition party to pressure the ruling party to work in the interests of Singaporeans. That why WP won Aljunied GRC.

 

[tua lam pah]

boys and girls.... stop arguing.... old harry's time is almost up.......makes me die a happy man......
so then, harry big liar....see you in hell

 

[Papsmearer]

U seriously want to compare past achivements? Low held Hougang for a few terms vs LKY who drag SG from 3rd world to first.

.

The more u talk, the more u sound like an asshole. U should learn to shut your mouth. Stop giving credit to the wrong person. U think LKY, a new lawyer who knows nuts about economics can suddenly wake up one morning with the fantastic plan for singapore? Or do you think it was the Dutch economist seconded to singapore from the UN, Albert Winsemuis, who lay out the master plan? Which do u think is the more credible scenario? Don't forget, if Singapore was populated mostly by Filipinos, Malays, Black Africans, Indons, etc. and not by CHINESE people, Lee Con You would have been bald now from tearing his hair in frustration. Why don't u give credit to the hardworking population instead?

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

The more u talk, the more u sound like an asshole. U should learn to shut your mouth. Stop giving credit to the wrong person. U think LKY, a new lawyer who knows nuts about economics can suddenly wake up one morning with the fantastic plan for singapore? Or do you think it was the Dutch economist seconded to singapore from the UN, Albert Winsemuis, who lay out the master plan? Which do u think is the more credible scenario? Don't forget, if Singapore was populated mostly by Filipinos, Malays, Black Africans, Indons, etc. and not by CHINESE people, Lee Con You would have been bald now from tearing his hair in frustration. Why don't u give credit to the hardworking population instead?

Yes very good post from you here specially the part i highlighted.

If it was shit skins that were majority of this country we would be 3rd world.

Fuck man too few ppl want to give credit to the chinese.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Don't forget, if Singapore was populated mostly by Filipinos, Malays, Black Africans, Indons, etc. and not by CHINESE people, Lee Con You would have been bald now from tearing his hair in frustration. Why don't u give credit to the hardworking population instead?

This is a very valid statement. Chinese immigrants have generally done well in every land we've settled on..

 

[red amoeba]

The more u talk, the more u sound like an asshole. U should learn to shut your mouth. Stop giving credit to the wrong person. U think LKY, a new lawyer who knows nuts about economics can suddenly wake up one morning with the fantastic plan for singapore? Or do you think it was the Dutch economist seconded to singapore from the UN, Albert Winsemuis, who lay out the master plan? Which do u think is the more credible scenario? Don't forget, if Singapore was populated mostly by Filipinos, Malays, Black Africans, Indons, etc. and not by CHINESE people, Lee Con You would have been bald now from tearing his hair in frustration. Why don't u give credit to the hardworking population instead?

==

i think the distinction shld not only Chinese (as in PRC Chinese) but the Chinese who originally moved to Singapore in seeking better lives from their shitholes in China. Please correct me if I am wrong, after CCP took power in 1949, migration from China is not possible ~ except for communist people going out to propagate their ideologies.

So these Chinese who have sunk roots previously (and having gone through the war) suffered tremendously during the occupation (more than any race). Funnily, alot of them don't regard Singapore as their home but would want to go back China and die there some day.

The sword cut both ways - as the head honcho, LKY is generally accredited for Singapore's success of course, all the hard work are done by advisors like Albert Winsemuis, and the Israelis who came to train our SAF, his cabinet ministers who charted Singapore's initial economy policies. Just like Obama is credited for rooting out Osama when in fact, all the hard work is done by CIA operatives and the whole operations executed by Delta 6.

Even today, we have a group of think-tanks comprising of leading industry leaders chaired by Tharman who meet regularly to chart the next direction for Singapore in terms of economic growth. Its not LHL nor LKY who is thinking such policies.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Don't forget, if Singapore was populated mostly by Filipinos, Malays, Black Africans, Indons, etc. and not by CHINESE people, Lee Con You would have been bald now from tearing his hair in frustration. QUOTE]

I think he wont even live long enough to celebrate his 60th birthday. His role and importance is exaggerated.