Chitchat Issue of nurses wearing tudung discussed 6 months ago: Shanmugam

[countryman]

I think there is an unverified story of the prophet keeping a cat. I said unverified. So these ppl take it without investigating. What did I say about Islam being about seeking knowledge and not assuming. These people assumed.
And yes you are allowed to keep dogs in yr compound and provide a kennel for it. Minimize interaction but treat it humanely.
But these days, electronics maybe do a better job.

The answers are not convincing n it doesn't tally with what the muslim's attitude are towards dogs. Another topic, what about the Paris incident not long ago? Why the need to kill? I thought its a peaceful loving religion? And please don't say the killer is not muslim.

 

[syed putra]

I will not say more about animals except that you don't put your cow in yr living room, no?

Now about those news reports....Fact is were there anyone killed for apostasy in Malaysia? Answer is no. Because to be killed for apostasy, there are many stringent conditions to be met, which under current times does not fulfil it.
So when you want to learn about Islam is is not through the headline news but go to learned scholars that can help you drill down into the details. There you will find clarity.
You seem insincere in finding out the truth but enjoys taking pot shots. That is no way to learn.

There is no such thing as apstasy as everyone if free to believe or not to believe. There is no compulsion in faith in the belief in God.
But there is compulsion in faith if you serve your religion dictated by clerics snd muftis.

 

[syed putra]

So why do so many muslim families keep cats @home? Isn't it supposed to be equal treatment for all animals? As u know, dogs are loving animals, have u patted a dog before?
Let's say if u live in a landed property in SG or Boleh land, assuming the dog does not enter your home as you're living in a landed property. Will u keep dogs as pets to guard your home n family (more so in Boleh land as there're many home robberies) ?

Only prohibition is on consumption of pigs wrt animals. On why muslims are so fearful of dogs depends on the sect. Arabs uses dogs for hunting and racing. No problem touching dogs or pigs either. Just don't eat pork tbats all.

 

[Hanslesley73]

I will not say more about animals except that you don't put your cow in yr living room, no?

Now about those news reports....Fact is were there anyone killed for apostasy in Malaysia? Answer is no. Because to be killed for apostasy, there are many stringent conditions to be met, which under current times does not fulfil it.
So when you want to learn about Islam is is not through the headline news but go to learned scholars that can help you drill down into the details. There you will find clarity.
You seem insincere in finding out the truth but enjoys taking pot shots. That is no way to learn.

On the contrary, I have been following closely about Islam. My interests stemmed from having worked in the Middle East where I first noticed how shockingly bizarre n cruel they cd be, this is further fueled by observing my moslem neighbours’ self-entitled, hypocrite and sinisterly cruel behaviour on others(including their own family).
With regards about the current news on nur sajat, there were moslem netizens that seemed to think it is ok and natural to stone nur sajat to death bcoz she wanted to leave Islam.
Why do u keep evading me and asking for more evidence about Islam after I have provided you with many proof and evidence which u asked for earlier(eg. Jihad, blasphemy and apostasy).
Why do you have to hide from acknowledging facts abt Islam and dig for other issues, ignoring the answers I’ve given you?
Why hide, unless if subconsciously, you knew something is not right?

 

[countryman]

Only prohibition is on consumption of pigs wrt animals. On why muslims are so fearful of dogs depends on the sect. Arabs uses dogs for hunting and racing. No problem touching dogs or pigs either. Just don't eat pork tbats all.

Let's not talk about fear as fear is on the individual. If muslim can keep cats @home, can a muslim keep dogs @home as well?

 

[syed putra]

Let's not talk about fear as fear is on the individual. If muslim can keep cats @home, can a muslim keep dogs @home as well?

If based on the muslim holy book, there is no such prohibition on dogs. I have no issues with dogs.

 

[Loofydralb]

The answers are not convincing n it doesn't tally with what the muslim's attitude are towards dogs. Another topic, what about the Paris incident not long ago? Why the need to kill? I thought its a peaceful loving religion? And please don't say the killer is not muslim.

With regards to dogs, many muslims are still ignorant about it. Again, don't blame the religion.
Islam is not a religion of selfish whims and fancies. We take guidance from evidences in the books whether we like it or not. We accept these are divinely revealed.

As to the Paris incident, we condemn both the actions of insulting the Prophet and the misguided actions of the killer. We are however, ordered to defend the honour of the religion and the Prophet but in justifyable ways as guided by the Quran.
Does it say to kill people who insult the Prophet. The answer is no. But to engage them in the best manner with the objective of letting them see the truth.
You will never find a muslim insulting Jesus not any of Allahs Prophets. Why does these French insist on doing it?

 

[Loofydralb]

On the contrary, I have been following closely about Islam. My interests stemmed from having worked in the Middle East where I first noticed how shockingly bizarre n cruel they cd be, this is further fueled by observing my moslem neighbours’ self-entitled, hypocrite and sinisterly cruel behaviour on others(including their own family).
With regards about the current news on nur sajat, there were moslem netizens that seemed to think it is ok and natural to stone nur sajat to death bcoz she wanted to leave Islam.
Why do u keep evading me and asking for more evidence about Islam after I have provided you with many proof and evidence which u asked for earlier(eg. Jihad, blasphemy and apostasy).
Why do you have to hide from acknowledging facts abt Islam and dig for other issues, ignoring the answers I’ve given you?
Why hide, unless if subconsciously, you knew something is not right?

Again you are conflating what you see muslims actually do and what the religion advocates. It's two different things.
Again you are jumbling up many issues. Please ask one specific question. What is that one issue you disagree with?

 

[syed putra]

On the contrary, I have been following closely about Islam. My interests stemmed from having worked in the Middle East where I first noticed how shockingly bizarre n cruel they cd be, this is further fueled by observing my moslem neighbours’ self-entitled, hypocrite and sinisterly cruel behaviour on others(including their own family).
With regards about the current news on nur sajat, there were moslem netizens that seemed to think it is ok and natural to stone nur sajat to death bcoz she wanted to leave Islam.
Why do u keep evading me and asking for more evidence about Islam after I have provided you with many proof and evidence which u asked for earlier(eg. Jihad, blasphemy and apostasy).
Why do you have to hide from acknowledging facts abt Islam and dig for other issues, ignoring the answers I’ve given you?
Why hide, unless if subconsciously, you knew something is not right?

Nur sajat is free to leave and/or believe. There is no such anti apostasy laws as stated. If based on muslim holy book alone, nobody can be punished for disbelieving. This trend of killing apostates came much later when islam became a religion. Based on historical facts, the true believers eventuslly were annihilated in a civil war. Theur last bastion it seems was in andalusia in spain where their stronghold collapsed to the religionist in 1153.

 

[duluxe]

How Islam Progresses With Time


Least progressive>

More Progressive>>

Most PROGRESSIVENESS>>>>>>>>

Quote Reply
Report

 

[Loofydralb]

How Islam Progresses

The only right way is by guidance from Quran and Hadis.
Individuals are free to do what they desire but not following the guidance is not following what the books taught.

 

[countryman]

The only right way is by guidance from Quran and Hadis.
Individuals are free to do what they desire but not following the guidance is not following what the books taught.

In the 1st place, u don't even need a religion to guide u through doing what's right n what's wrong. These are all common sense. What's the big fuss about covering here n covering there with a piece of cloth? People got nothing better to do debating over all these pointless issues.

 

[eatshitndie]

hanor, many will not have issues with this attire - only problem is when they insist to put on a hijab, under or over the face-shield

if nurses wear this, will attract many unkers as patients.

 

[Loofydralb]

In the 1st place, u don't even need a religion to guide u through doing what's right n what's wrong. These are all common sense. What's the big fuss about covering here n covering there with a piece of cloth? People got nothing better to do debating over all these pointless issues.

But what will be you moral anchor to tell you what is right or wrong. Now today, it may not be ok. But in the future, where you don't have a moral anchor, your wife screwing a dog will be ok.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Theindependent
Perhaps, this is why discussions were held behind closed doors, he wrote

IG screnngrab: Muhammad Zahid Mohd Zin
Author
- Advertisement -
Singapore—Being a religious leader can be a sensitive matter at times, especially perhaps in multicultural countries such as Singapore.
On March 24, Muhammad Zahid Mohd Zin posted a photo of an upsetting note that he had found on his car door on his Instagram account.
The words written on the yellow envelope are a derogatory term in Malay.

IG screnngrab: Muhammad Zahid Mohd Zin
- Advertisement -
He captioned the photo with the following words:
“Precisely this is why discussions were held behind closed doors. Issues raised are close to the heart. People have strong emotional attachment to it but not many have the strength to discuss it gently and diligently
This was left on my car today after i had my breakfast. Ive forgiven the doer. Hopefully my family wouldn’t have to see this often. Stay calm and move on ”
According to mothership, Mr Zahid’s reference to closed-doors meetings may be in relation to the issue of Muslim nurses wearing the tudung, or headscarf, an issue brought up in Parliament that leaders said had been discussed behind closed doors.
After posting a photo of the hate message on the yellow envelope, the religious leader posted a call for peace and calm.

IG screengrab: Muhammad Zahid Mohd Zin
His caption this time was a call to “focus on the real issue,” move on and raise funds for the Palestinians.
In the posts that have followed, Mr Zahid makes no more mention of the hate message.
The issue of wearing the tudung arose late last month, when in his Budget debate speech on Feb 24, Workers’ Party MP Faisal Manap suggested that Muslim nurses wear the tudung as part of their uniform.
“We don’t want patients to prefer or not prefer to be served by a Muslim nurse, nor do we want people to think that public security is being enforced by a Muslim or non-Muslim officer,” he said.
Furthermore, Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office Maliki Osman had joined Mr Masagos in highlighting that Singapore’s approach to dealing with sensitive issues, such as wearing the tudung or headscarf in certain professions, is to discuss them behind closed doors to avoid serious ramifications, which could impact religious harmony.
Since then, the issue became somewhat contentious, with many people taking issue with the Government’s stance.
However, just this week, Home Affairs and Law Minister K Shanmugam clarified that the Government can “see good reasons why nurses should be allowed to wear the tudung if they choose to do so”.
Mr Shanmugam was the guest speaker at a dialogue with the Religious Rehabilitation Group (RRG) on Mar 23 at the Khadijah Mosque in Geylang Road.
He touched on the Government’s position on nurses wearing the tudung, noting the same issue was discussed six months ago on Aug 31, 2020.
“It was a closed-door meeting, and I could be frank,” said Mr Shanmugam in a Facebook post on Tuesday.
/TISG
Follow us on Social Media

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Send in your scoops to [email protected]
- Advertisement -

 

[duluxe]

The only right way is by guidance from Quran and Hadis.
Individuals are free to do what they desire but not following the guidance is not following what the books taught.

Quran only advises believers both men and women to dress modestly, there is no instruction for women to cover up their hair. Mainstream hijab is hair covering, burqa is face covering. Going by interpretation, Burqa(should not display their beauty) is more aligned to the advise of Koran than Hijab. MUIS should advocate Burqa.


Quran 24:31
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their private parts; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimār over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

Quran 33:59
O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed.

 

[Loofydralb]

Quran only advises believers both men and women to dress modestly, there is no instruction for women to cover up their hair. Mainstream hijab is hair covering, burqa is face covering. Going by interpretation, Burqa(should not display their beauty) is more aligned to the advise of Koran than Hijab. MUIS should advocate Burqa.


Quran 24:31
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their private parts; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimār over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.

Quran 33:59
O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed.

A better translation:

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments1 except what normally appears.2 Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments3 except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful."

A simple mistranslation can go erroneous easily. Let the Arab language experts and scholars do their jobs.
There are more in the hadis that points to hijab instead of burqa as being demanded. And there is no better justification than, that inside Al Haram (the Kaabah) women are disallowed (by jurisprudence and consensus) to cover their faces when they perform their rituals of worship.

 

[Hanslesley73]

A better translation:

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments1 except what normally appears.2 Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments3 except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful."

A simple mistranslation can go erroneous easily. Let the Arab language experts and scholars do their jobs.
There are more in the hadis that points to hijab instead of burqa as being demanded. And there is no better justification than, that inside Al Haram (the Kaabah) women are disallowed (by jurisprudence and consensus) to cover their faces when they perform their rituals of worship.

Oh yeah, words concocted by the Arab womanizer - Muhammad.
Now with all these wayang(theatrics) abt women ‘guarding their chastity,’ we wd expect moslems to be role models for women’s safety, no?

Then why is it that moslems seem to be the leader in fathers/brothers/uncles beating,molesting,raping their female family members in our supposedly modern/civilized world?
Why are the moslem men incapable to contain their lusts and discern right from wrong?
When these atrocities happened, who bears the blame?
Usually the victims, the women bears the blame and will be told by these words,’you did not cover yrself.’

How inhuman is this?
She was raped, molested, beaten up; she’s traumatized by her family members that were supposed to protect, love and nurture her;
she may have difficulty trusting men again, she’s emotionally scarred; and yet she will get the blame. And the perpetrator gets away scot free(if in Muslim country or it goes unreported- which is usually the case). All these still prevail even with moslem women covered up. Just look at the current news.

Can you imagine if moslem women wear normal clothes like Chinese women at home?

 

[countryman]

But what will be you moral anchor to tell you what is right or wrong. Now today, it may not be ok. But in the future, where you don't have a moral anchor, your wife screwing a dog will be ok.

Huh! U mean u need to be told n reminded that it's morally wrong that you are screwing a dog? Something must be wrong with u mentally! LOL
Why need a person from 2 centuries ago dictating your life? U mean u can't even judge what's right from wrong?

 

[mojito]

Hijab tudong is Muslim patriarchy control over women. It is like the Manchus forcing every chink subject to wear pigtails.