is there a true religion?

[Psalm23]

Dear Foomt117,

I once heard someone said, God is just 18 inches away from us. What he meant was the distance between our brain and our heart is 18 inches. What you believe in your heart will translate into what you are. I admit - I cannot prove to you in any tangible form that my '"God is real". But my heart tells me so. Even during Jesus' day, those who walked so close to Him refused to believe He is God. Most of His disciples run away and hid themselves when the Roman soldiers were going after Jesus to crucify Him. Remember, Jesus was with them in person for many years! Even after His resurrection, some wanted physical proof to see real wounds of His hands and bodies and they wanted to touch Him before they believe He is God and He has risen. The amazing thing was that all those disciplines who were coward before His death became heroes and many even died for preacher the Gospel.

We are given the grace of God - or at least I am. I don't need to touch Him physically but by His Word, I am fully convinced that He is God and no one else.

Sigh...It's not easy for non-Christian to really believe. I have gone through the same - always wanted tangible proof. But let me share with you one thing - just look at all those people around us - do you really trust them, and look at ourselves, do you think we can really face God with all the things we do, all the thoughts we have in our mind - I don't know about you - my mine thoughts are realy, really dirty. And God knows our thoughts. Just look at the newspaper, without fail we read of people cheating so often and some cheated people by hundred of millions of dollars, yet you see their faces still laughing and show absolutely no remorse. For me as a Christian, this is nothing to be surprised because every man's heart is deceitfully wicked continuously as what was said in the Bible in both the Old and the New Testaments.

I am not a debater and neither am I a theologian. For that matter, I am not even a church worker. I am writing just as a Christian sharing with fellow Christians some words of encouragement.

 

[foomt117]

what u said have not answered my question. I have no doubt that Jesus is above the common man. In a way, Jesus is God but that got nothing to do with your salvation to heaven.

I beleive there is God but i dont beleive that is good enough for me to go to heaven. I believe instead that salvation lies within myself through overcoming bad habits and becoming a loving being. See?

Your Salvation has nothing to be with reading the holy book, it has nothing to do with going to church, it has nothing to do with paying tithes to the church. All these actions are suppose to translate to a disciplined Soul making Soul stronger to love others. But the actions means nothing if it doesnt helps the Soul for the reason that it wasnt done selflessly and instead for the sake of going to heaven. The intention wasnt pure. To be free from suffering requires a loving heart but that doesnt necessarily means u r free from physical pain. Like one can be happily suffering working hard for yr children cos of love and compassion.

All roads lead to God, it's just a question of time. All have to have the same loving heart of Jesus to be where He is at. You can only find which religion can give the shortest route to find the love within cos ultimately, we all will go to heaven, just a matter of time. Does that makes my idea of God more loving than yours?

In regard to the dirty thoughts... if u mean sex thoughts. It is actually natural and was designed by Nature to make you want to make love. I find that one cannot stop thoughts but one can be aware of it and realise one doesnt need to follow the thoughts cos these thoughts may not necessarily coming from your own. For sex thoughts, it prolly is and there is nothing wrong with it since it is Nature-created. But becos u think that making love is a bad thing which is actually unnatural and anti-Nature, u suffered guilt cos u went against the design of Nature.

Let's say our Law tells us that a mother who thinks that hugging and kissing her baby is a sinful act. But isnt it natural to think of that? But of course, that helps to prove that mothers are indeed "sinful". Then, this will further cause a lot of perverted acts, thoughts and even actions in the future... I can only imagine in horror. It's becomes like a vicious cycle.

 

[Psalm23]

I am not just addressing the thoughts of sexual desire. We have the thoughts of selfishness, envy, jealously, etc. Do you really sincerely have thought of doing something good for people every day? I don't think I want to go on debating with you because God does not need any debate. I just pray you read through the Bible and that God will reveal Him to you. God bless.

 

[foomt117]

you know, that wasnt kind of u to just stop peep from asking u about God. If u really beleive that non-christians will be condemned to eternal hell, u better drop down yr work and lay down yr life to start convincing peep. Afterall, eternal damnation is too horrible for anyone that it's of utter selfishness of christians not to preach every second. I can see why your believers should feel glad about killing all non-christians so that further generations wont go to hell.

Haha, your middl-age preachers are really cunningly shrewd to come out with just an idea, an idea that will cause believers in their compassion and blood in their hands to go all out to empower your priests. The muslim extremists have learned from yr priests and so did I.

 

[Psalm23]

Brother,

Christian life is not just reading the Holy Bible. Of course as Christians, we must read our Bible but it's the teaching and following what God has commanded is more important. Christian living, contrary to many thinking, it's very difficult. As Jesus said, the road is narrow. Besides just believing that Jesus is God and Saviour, we need to repent the way we live. No repentence no salvation - you can call on Jesus to save you He will not because He says, "Repent and be saved." Just imagine someone claimed to know Jesus but keep continuing cheating on people. Can this person really have a place in heave? You think God will welcome him?

In every region, you have 'black sheep'. Whether those 'priests', 'pastors', etc are really Christians and God's children, we are not to judge. But Jesus has warned that during the last days many will confess to Him that His is Lord, He is going to tell them, "Go away, I never knew you. You evil doers." We have seen so often religious leaders are cheating people. Really, I personally don't bother all this - let God deal with them. We are not in position to 'condemn' or to 'reward' them. In Jesus time, the most religious people were the pharisees. People knew them to be the 'holiest of the holy". Yet Jesus scolded them so very often because they were just hypocrites. They did things just to show people how religious they were but their hearts were not right. One the other hand, there was a tax collector (and people hated tax collectors in those days), Jesus made him one of His disciple because he repented and give his heart to God. Repent - This is one of the basics in Christianity.

Believing God is a very person thing. In fact, some Christians like myself don't want to really call Christianity as a 'religion'. It is the relationship between God and us. The reason why mankind is so cruel, wicked, etc is because we just don't think there is a God and we live the way we like.

So, brother, I just want to let you know that our God is calling everyone to go and have a relationship with Him. Once we do that we will find (or at least I find) our perspective of life is very different. Again, I am no evangelist. I am not a church worker. I don't receive any salary from church or donation. I don't need them because I have Jesus. I carry no title - but if I were to give myself a title, I would like to be called "God's Fisherman". I am just a ordinary Christian who has a desire to share God's Word (but not to debate because God says "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my Word is from everlasting to everlasting."

For you information, I have dropped all my secular work. I am now a full-time working for God but a freelance worker, living my life to fully trust God to provide. I spend all my day reading and studying the Bible, trying every effort to obey God's commandments and writing words of encouragement. You can find these in thread Today's Scripture Reading under the same blog Discussions about Religion.

 

[Ash007]

This thread is starting to degenerate into a Christians Versus Others thread. I'll chime in and see if it can be improved.

To me, personally, all religion are crap. Having a religion and being religious are very different and separate thing. It doesn't matter who or what you believe in, be it Christ, Buddha, Krishna. The important thing is being religious. I'll quote from the following what I mean.

http://www.innerself.com/Spirituality/religionless.htm

Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Mohammedanism — these are only ideologies, dogmas, creeds; they are only cults. The true religion has no name, it cannot have any name. Buddha lived it, Jesus lived it — but remember, Jesus was not a Christian and Buddha was not a Buddhist, he had never heard of the word. The truly religious people have been simply religious, they have not been dogmatic. There are three hundred religions in the world — this is such an absurdity! If truth is one, how can there be three hundred religions? There is only one science, and three hundred religions?

This guy made a hell of a sense once you start reading what he has to say. He whacks all religion, everyone and everything. We need more people to be religious, rather then having a religion.

The talk about having "freedom", and how it would degenerate our society is pure fear. If everyone is religious, it would not happen! That is what being religious means. To be able to do what you want without harming anyone else, the basic cardinal truth I see in a lot of religious text and philosophy.


Another person that is of similar vine is Christopher Hitchen. He is the guy that says that religion poisons everything.

Hitchens contends that organised religion is "[v]iolent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children", and that accordingly it "ought to have a great deal on its conscience."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/heathens-above-gods-harshest-critic-smokes-in-the-shower-20091001-ger1.html

The only thing he conceded that religion is good for is the following quote.

"Everything we know about philosophy, we first learnt because of religion. It deserves respect for being humanity's first attempt to make sense of everything, to discover knowledge.''

 

[kulgai]

Exactly. Humans are always so defensive. Dun forget that most of us are born into our religions. We are so indoctrinated by our own religions that most of us are unable to rationally discuss on this topic. What makes us so sure that our religion is true and others are not?? I guess it's the pride that we can't be wrong.

 

[pia]

I'm a monotheist and am laisse faire when it comes to religions. Imagine everyone playing their own board games with the intention to win within their rules and regulations. Don't tell me your board game is the only one that should be played, that all!

Atheists may also be "playing" a board game for all I know

 

[khunking]

Is there a book of Jesus? Words from the horse's mouth.

John 14:6 (New International Version)

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Life is filled with contradiction, of Duality, of Multiplicity...

Love & Hate, War & Peace, Man & Woman, Justice & Injustice..etc.

Don't tell me this is not true?

If you are goody two shoes, and have been doing things you think are correct. But, one fine day, while crossing the street, a truck just run over you, and your life is taken away just like that...

Do you really ask why it happen to you?

 

[cowbehcowbu]

Guatama buddha set forth to search the universal truth on the existence of of lives and universe ,.n the very sorry states of sentient beings..ie the cycle of bieth-growth-decay-death...he got the ultimate enlightment WITHIN ..in NIVARNA...whence and in that ultimate enlightened states...all kknowledges..wisdoms and all the evens ,,the cause and the intermingling of all the events unfoldings are perfectly ..succintly clear ....all of which are governed by the eternal karmic laws ....in short..he set forth to share his ultimate enlightened wisdomto all who his disciples...
1] His teachings has few vital characteristic..one most important is he told all his disciple...'trust not just all I teach you..search within you the same wisdom and truth..and verify if what I said was true..'..bcos all sentient beings can reach the ultimate enlightenhood[ ie Buddhahood...]
2] He taught a discipline way of life...do only goods not evils..including all thoughts and actions and words....as one always reap what he sow....
3]he taught the ultimate concept of beings and coming into beings of ALL phenomenas..the concept of matters as a derived phenimenin of fluxex of energy..which in term was derived as a pulsation of time and space..creating the illusions of dimensions...time sequence of events..
the concept of infinity as a reverse of nullity ..for space and time...the past ,presence and futes as an mind-alligned illusion ...
4]He described the many universe coexist with this earth n solar system..and multitudes of existence in different dimensions..[33 heavens..18 level of hells..3 level of supra-existence...and the ultimate indescribable state of NIRVANA....
5] that all beings with own soverign right to choose his path of spiritual evolution....or recycling in the six realms of existence..

The ultimate goal.that this great enlightened beings in our recent era..taught was..
there are much blissful states of existence than this sorrowful realms..and even the highest heaven with the time there was beings that has a life spend of several million years of earth time[ remember Einstein theory verified that world at very different relative speed to each other ..can have one events that takes 1 minutes in one world,,,will takes thousands years to happen in the other worlds..]..

6] There is the seed of Buddhahood[ simply the inherent ability to reach back to the eternal primodal state of Nirvana..] in all beings..ALL ARE EQUAL..just many are lost in the fun and color..and sufferings in existence...in the many different realms of beings...

7] Guatama teachings persistently encourage ONLY
RIGHT [POSITIVE]LIVELIHOODS
RIGHT [POSITIVE]ACTIONS
RIGHT[POSITIVE] WORDS
RIGHT [POSITIVE]

DO GOOD DEEDS IF ONE MUST COMMIT AN ACTIONS...NEVER BAD DEEDS..as sufferings will followed as shadows of oneself...larma never fail to act..
AS DEEDS AND CONSEQUENCE ARE 2 SIDES OF THE SAME COIN...you take a coin ..you end up with both sides of it!!!!!!!!!!
Buddhism is a teaching of the way to save ooneself from the sufferings of beings........

 

[kakowi]

If u really beleive that non-christians will be condemned to eternal hell, u better drop down yr work and lay down yr life to start convincing peep. Afterall, eternal damnation is too horrible for anyone that it's of utter selfishness of christians not to preach every second.

There's so much fallacy in your words.

Eternal damnation is indeed too horrible to contemplate BUT that does not mean that christians need to preach every second.

Bringing drugs into Singapore carries the death sentence BUT that does not mean that the police need to preach every second.

It is enough that there are signposts to tell people not to do that.

Beyond that, if some people still choose to do that, it is their own fault, not the police.

The police is not selfish if they do not go down on their knees begging you not to bring in drugs.

I can see why your believers should feel glad about killing all non-christians so that further generations wont go to hell.

Haha, your middl-age preachers are really cunningly shrewd to come out with just an idea, an idea that will cause believers in their compassion and blood in their hands to go all out to empower your priests. The muslim extremists have learned from yr priests and so did I.

Not only did you see wrongly but you also learn wrongly.




If you really want to see the truth of Christ's words, you need to be humble, realize that CHRIST is higher and better than you can ever be, and learn from people who really care about you.

People like Psalm23.

Be thankful to Christ that He sent people like Psalm23 to this forum, that there will be some who upon hearing the news, will be glad, very glad for it.

The fact that you are engaging means that HE is reaching out to you.

What more do you want?

 

[commoner]

that is provided if what you claim is true but look at this website

http://www.inu.net/skeptic/gospels.html

& a glimpse to its cinclusion

Conclusions

The gospels, although they may be perceived by many Christians to be true historical biographies, are in reality nothing more than fictional narratives written to promote a cause. The propaganda motive is openly admitted when in the Gospel of John (20:31) we are told, "These things are written so that you might believe Jesus is the Christ . . ."

Christian fundamentalists preachers invoke the word "truth" ad nauseam. They never tire of repeating John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free," or John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life . . ." Their primary aim, I believe, is not to teach but to intimidate, indoctrinate and brainwash their congregations, including little children, into believing the outlandish assertion that the Bible is the ultimate source of truth. In that regard, here is a quotation from a letter I received from a local Church of God minister, "It is my firm conviction, based on testimony from the Bible itself, that God's word is the only infallible source of truth." Such a patently absurd statement by someone with a better than average education is nothing short of appalling. The truth, if that's what they really want, is simply that objective scholarly research had shown the gospels to be historically spurious.

Their real purpose of the evangelists is not so much to reveal the truth as it is to protect their turf. What other motive could there be in ignoring the results of years of honest, objective scholarly Bible research? Why else are many members of the clergy so intent on forcing their ridiculous doctrine of superstition and fear into the public schools, as well as into local, state and national governments? That is why such ludicrous nonsense as Creation Science and Christian Reconstructionism are taken seriously by so many and threaten to intrude upon our public and private lives. That is why slick, Bible spouting charlatans are able to gain such wealth, prominence and political clout. The truth, if it can be determined at all, can only be determined through impartial, objective, dispassionate research conducted without regard for personal bias or in favor of a preconceived outcome.

Beginning in the sixteenth century and continuing to this day, scientific, literary, and historical research has succeeded in demolishing the credibility of the Bible. However, this fact remains largely unappreciated by the laity. They remain oblivious to the fact that most, if not all, of the key features of the Bible have been discredited or flatly refuted. This, perhaps, is understandable because we live in a society that is enlarging the boundaries of knowledge at an unprecedented rate. We cannot keep up with much more than a fraction of all that is made available to us. However, to continue to cloud our perception of reality with childish notions of magic and make believe is to adulterate our world view in a most debilitating and dangerous way.

At the risk of being unbearably realistic, I must tell you that Hitler is not alive and living in Argentina, Elvis is really dead, AIDS is not God's retribution, and Jesus of the gospels never exist

 

[Unrepented]

I concur with neilgoose. And it is impossible even to understand 100% the religion one had choosen, let alone understand others. This is the inherent limitation when we have limited time versus variety.

While we spend time hunting for the best deal in COMEX or even at NTUC choosing between the various brands and its alternatives... most of us choose to have faith in a particular religion w/o deeply understanding what it is in the 1st place...

More than that... most of the believers did not quite try to understand what the other leading religions are.

 

[Unrepented]

Hi methink,

First please read the afore post of mine.

Do you know why sometimes people refer to a funeral as "wake"? Like :"I have to attend a wake".

The story was that it the past, the "dead" do come alive again. This was discovered by grave diggers and grave robbers, and the families were shocked to see their kins knocking at their door after burial.

The doctor of old did make wrong diagnosis and certified the patient as dead, because medical knowledge in the past was relatively not as developed.

Thereafter, all "deceased" as left lying at home for afew days incase the deceased may "wake". And all family members and relatives kept vigile for that period incase the deceased wakes and they are there to attend to the deceased. This was how "wake (funeral)" came about.

Also, there are cases where the seriously wounded in battles did manage to live after being left lying in the battlefield for a few days.

And personally, I hope ones believe in a religion as a way of life do not rest solely on "miracles", that will transent to blind faith.

Just read the news, followers of unscrupulous leaders of various faith being exploited.

Just my 2c.

Yes I believe TOO! Jesus Christ is the only man who was crucified, died, buried and risen again. Truly amazing!

Is there anyone who could repeat this...? I believe NOT!

Yes I believe in Jesus Christ. He lives to tell the story! All others are... dead.

 

[kakowi]

that is provided if what you claim is true but look at this website

http://www.inu.net/skeptic/gospels.html

& a glimpse to its cinclusion

....

I have read "the conclusions" and these are my comments:

(1) "The conclusions" are

(a) opinions of ONE individual - the writer of those conclusions;

(b) OPINIONS, not facts;

(c) opinions forged after 2,000 years from the Event

​

(2) For example, he wrote: "(assertion) Beginning in the sixteenth century and continuing to this day, scientific, literary, and historical research has succeeded in demolishing the credibility of the Bible.

(opinion) However, this fact remains largely unappreciated by the laity.

(opinion) They remain oblivious to the fact that most, if not all, of the key features of the Bible have been discredited or flatly refuted.

(opinion) This, perhaps, is understandable because we live in a society that is enlarging the boundaries of knowledge at an unprecedented rate. We cannot keep up with much more than a fraction of all that is made available to us.

(opinion) However, to continue to cloud our perception of reality with childish notions of magic and make believe is to adulterate our world view in a most debilitating and dangerous way."

Not once did the writer gave any factual basis for his assertion.


And he should have many since it began in the sixteenth century, 400 years ago. Did any of his readers wonder why he did not go back to proofs 2,000 years ago to disprove a 2,000 year event?

You can find the same sort of profound logic across his writings.


(blue is mine)





In contrast, the gospels were:

(1) writings of four DIFFERENT individuals;

(2) written within one generation of Christ's death on the cross;

(3) served as a historical record of the teachings of Christ

(4) there are minor differences across the gospels but this reinforce two points:

(a) they were the work of different individuals

(b) there was no collusion to misled the public; if that was what they intended, they could have done a better job to make sure the points were aligned
​

(5) the main message across the four gospels is the same: Christ came into this world; Christ had died; Christ had risen; Christ will come again.




But what's the point of all these arguments?

If it is because that writer is disillusioned by some christians, well, there are some christians which i will never trust unless it is on a sunday in church

If the writer feel that Jesus did not exist, well, he is old enough to make his own conclusions, stand by it and take the consequences for it - good or bad

In the end, there will always be arguments and counter-arguments.

 

[kakowi]

Hi methink,

First please read the afore post of mine.

Do you know why sometimes people refer to a funeral as "wake"? Like :"I have to attend a wake".

The story was that it the past, the "dead" do come alive again. This was discovered by grave diggers and grave robbers, and the families were shocked to see their kins knocking at their door after burial.

The doctor of old did make wrong diagnosis and certified the patient as dead, because medical knowledge in the past was relatively not as developed.

Thereafter, all "deceased" as left lying at home for afew days incase the deceased may "wake". And all family members and relatives kept vigile for that period incase the deceased wakes and they are there to attend to the deceased. This was how "wake (funeral)" came about.

Also, there are cases where the seriously wounded in battles did manage to live after being left lying in the battlefield for a few days.

And personally, I hope ones believe in a religion as a way of life do not rest solely on "miracles", that will transent to blind faith.

Just read the news, followers of unscrupulous leaders of various faith being exploited.

Just my 2c.

First of all, I do respect your point of view.

It seems to carry a context that Christ did not really die but perhaps only severely injured.

Thereafter his disciples practised deception.

There are some who believed that this is a true possibility.


Let's examine it from the viewpoint of logic rather than suppositions.

(1) Christ claimed to be from God and that He and God are one.

God as christians claimed, is all powerful. He is also trustworthy.

Then if those people are to be believed, Christ is telling them to save his face by telling the whole society of the day that he has died and has risen.

Will that not destroy the followers faith in him?


(2) The followers died difficult deaths because they preached one unyielding message: Christ is God.

Would deceptive people still continue to preach a false message just to save the face of a charlatan master?

Maybe, if you are talking about one person acting independently from the others.

But for all 11 of them?



(3) The followers showed a disdain for wealth. They practised the principles of human equality - all to contribute and each be given according to his needs. Peter said to one crippled man, "Silver and Gold have i none. But in the name of Christ, get up and walk." When that man was healed, there was no record of Peter asking that man to go out and work and pay tithes to him and his church.

So wealth was not their motive. They did not keep the money to buy gold taps or award themselves high salaries otherwise they will break off and form their own churches.

Neither was power. They did not seek to build big churches with themselves as the head.

There was no record of them having sexual harems.

So since wealth, power and sex were not their motives, what value is there to preach the message to save the face of a charlatan?



If you really think it over, it is far more probable that Christ had indeed died and Christ had risen.

Thus giving his disciples the fullest conviction that they are serving God.

A conviction that is beyond wealth, power and sex.

 

[Unrepented]

Hi kakowi,

Sincerely, I did not try to imply that his disciples practised deception. Like I explained how the word "attend wake" came about; the cases of wrong diagonsis by the doctors of old, which these doctors and family members really do believe and conclude that the patients were really dead.That's why, I wrote"the family members were shocked". But, somehow these deceased in question lived again.

And that Jesus may not be the one and only whom "risen from the dead" in the past.

Please read with an open mind and not be clouded by "what others always imply" when reading.

No offense, anyway that's what fruitful discussions are about, right? Listen, reflect and learn from the reflections.

Just to clarify a point

First of all, I do respect your point of view.

It seems to carry a context that Christ did not really die but perhaps only severely injured.

Thereafter his disciples practised deception.

There are some who believed that this is a true possibility.

 

[Unrepented]

Hi Kakowi,

Just one more that IMO, you should know and think about.

Uthopia. Not all things are motivated by the need for wealth, power and sex.

Just like communism, the objective of the ideology was to save the people from surpression, tyranny and suffering. And not to gain wealth, power and sex, but uthopia. And inorder to achieve the greater good for the masses, some sacrifices has to be made in the process.

Food for thought.

So since wealth, power and sex were not their motives, what value is there to preach the message to save the face of a charlatan?

 

[kakowi]

Hi Kakowi,

Just one more that IMO, you should know and think about.

Uthopia. Not all things are motivated by the need for wealth, power and sex.

Just like communism, the objective of the ideology was to save the people from surpression, tyranny and suffering. And not to gain wealth, power and sex, but uthopia. And inorder to achieve the greater good for the masses, some sacrifices has to be made in the process.

Food for thought.

Hi Unrepented,

Utopia makes the greatest religious fanatics in the world.

If God really wanted Utopia, he would not have given Man, his creation whom he loved so much, free will.

If Man do not have free will, Utopia is a definite reality.

Because all the problems on this planet Earth comes from Man. And I mean this in an absolute sense. Nature is essentially harmonious - man, animals, plants live and die and the cycle moves along. But when Man started atomic bomb testing, nuclear underground testing, bombings of people they hate, creating genetic strands, bioengineered products and today, keeping it from the public that the meat you eat is from a cross between a donkey and a banana. An intelligent island where everyone is bombarded by radio waves; uncertain if handphones cause brain cancer yet claiming there is no evidence it does and NOT saying there is no evidence it doesn't. Even saying that Christ wears Armani. Might as well say that Christ rides in on a Rolls Royce instead of a donkey.


Coming back to the point about the followers of Christ wanting to make a utopian world.

It does not hold water because:

(1) the disciples cannot see beyond their own face; Peter is a fisherman - what utopian world is he looking for except abundant fishes. Matthew only knows how to collect taxes.

(2) Therefore to suggest that these people suddenly have a philosophical awakening and decided to create a new world order, leaves me doubtful. They do not have that capacity for such thoughts.

(3) If you read their writings, their intention is just to spread the news that Christ is the long-awaited Messiah + the learnings they learnt from Christ when he walked, talked and slept with them - constantly teaching them of his standards and ways, revealing to them truths only for their ears. And it is this message that they preach - that Christ whom others crucified, is today alive and will come again.

(4) This was immediately offensive to the major Jewish religious leaders of that day - because Christ's death was due to their instigation and planning; And Christ's coming, this time as King and Judge leaves no more room for mercy. Just an impartial judgment - each according to their works, which is something this world really needs.

(5) The whole of Christianity rests on Christ's resurrection from the dead. That was the message of the 11 men. Disprove that and you can throw Christianity into the dustbin.

And this is the most interesting aspect. For more than 2,000 years, men and women, without meeting Christ face-to-face, staked their lives, time, effort and money on doing the deeds so that Christ will be pleased.

Moreover, they claimed that Christ is very much alive today and is present in their lives.

How then can 11 frightened, terrified, not too educated men conspire to bring about an utopia that will inspire the arts, charities, government, politics, economics, philosophy and others - all of which made better the lives of men and women? Allowing us to express the spark of the divine - which in my opinion, is what make us the image of God.

 

[commoner]

In contrast, the gospels were:

(1) writings of four DIFFERENT individuals;

Of the 4 gospels, Luke and Matthew has believed to base on Mark, the shortest gospel and the resurrection paragraph is missing in some old scripts.

(2) written within one generation of Christ's death on the cross;

apparently so, and selected by the council, who has to sift thru' other "supposedly" gospels and they must meet certain criteria set up by them. Many other agnostic gospels are dispelled.

(3) served as a historical record of the teachings of Christ

probably so, just a record for Christians

(4) there are minor differences across the gospels but this reinforce two points:

(a) they were the work of different individuals

who may or may not be written by Matthew, Luke, John and Mark

(b) there was no collusion to misled the public; if that was what they intended, they could have done a better job to make sure the points were aligned

you are thinking in modern times, you are not in the ancient days, you do not have what they have, and they do not have what you have, eg, computers etc etc

(5) the main message across the four gospels is the same: Christ came into this world; Christ had died; Christ had risen; Christ will come again.

I will not refute the main purpose of the message

I would like to end this with

For those who believe, no proof is necessay,
for those who don't believe, no proof is possible. Stuart Chase