How Jesus ended up as God

[JohnTan]

One thing that puzzles me though, is that if you praying to allah, why should direction matter? Why the need to face Mecca? Is allah there?

The direction of prayer is a recognition of superiority of someone's imperial power. In ancient chinkland, people in far away provinces were made to bow facing the direction of the capital city when receiving imperial edicts or offering their submission to the emperor. It is very much the same working principal for moslems to bow facing mecca. Getting people to bow in the direction of the moslem religious idol or shrine is a sign of your submission.

It could be easier to swallow this humble pie if we repackage it as praying in unity.

 

[JohnTan]

Arabs were already at china border 120 years after the presumed death of prophet mohamed. They clashed with Tang dynasty army at Talas river and won.but retreated due to start of civil war.

The arabs won the battle of Talas in 751 AD. The arabs pursued the retreating Tang troops but were ambushed and defeated. Chink Tang influence in the central asian regions declined from the year 755, just 4 years after Talas. It was due more to the An Lushan rebellion of 755 which permanently weakened the Tang Dynasty. Incidentally, An Lushan is not chink. He was a turkic noble given a chink name.

 

[Loofydralb]

In islam, religion is politics and politics is religion. There is no difference. Like I said, you know shit about islam.

For Christians, only the Bible is the Word of God.

Because when Islam is practised in a secular society, naturally many gets politicised.

Anyway the Bible is full of errors, mistakes and contradictions.
Either your God is blur sotong or humans changed his words to suit their interests.

 

[nayr69sg]

Man writing a book about something as an unseen creator of infinite power is way more challenging than man writing a book about something as a never seen before creature from another planet.

It is called science fiction in some circles.

 

[nightsafari]

Bingo! The various steppe tribes of Central Asia - turks, mongol, etc, were the carriers of islam from the 10th century onwards.

The arabs, the first carriers of islam, spread islam within the confines of the Rashidun and Abbassid dynasties.

The second wave of islam started with the seljuk turks, who expanded into persia, afghanistan and anatolia. From afghanistan, other waves of lesser known moslem turkic invaders invaded india and over centuries of conquests, slaughter and forced conversions, made islam into a significant religion in india.

The third major wave would be the ottoman turks from the mid 14 century, who consolidated islamic control over anatolia and spread islam into balkan europe. In the 16 century, the ottoman provided military support to moslem states in Ethiopia, sultanates in India and even as far as Aceh, to carry out jihad against non-moslems and to fight proxy wars against the Portuguese.

thanks for fleshing it out.

I'm surprised you are not teaching history of Islam or Asia somewhere.

 

[nightsafari]

U mean no way to prove Islam is from Allah?

We pray facing Mecca sort of a form of unity. One ummah. Allah is the Creator. HES everywhere. Not at a specific place. U dont see Muslims wearing rings or woman with ornaments with shape of kaaba. U dont see statues of kaaba in Masjid.

there is no proof at all.

what does statues have to do with god? what does Islam have to do with god? what does koran have to do with god? what does mecca have to do with god?

All but the 1st one is self-claimed by the people who created the Koran and Islam after Mohammed died. If they can claim his name after he died. (I call this reincarnating the dead for one's own purposes). Why can't they claim anything else they want to? They are so shameless to use a dead man to promote themselves, what else will they resort to? (Even sinkieland have this!)

So that's why I'm still searching. In the meantime, I talk directly to my next life even if I am not sure if anyone is listening.

I think most important to you than what I think is that if it brings you peace, by all means you should believe what you wish.

I don't know if you remember, but I only write to you because you asked me my thoughts, not because I wish to disrupt your peace. In fact, I hesitated a lot because I really don't wish to disrupt your peace. It is not my choice. If you ask, I feel I owe it to you to tell you the highest truth I have learned. I believe in ikhlas when I interact with people. I won't BS you or tell you stories. Just what I have learned and can be sure of.

btw, if it will make you happier, I can stop telling you what I learnt. No hard feelings abang.

One last thing before I finish. There is another contradiction that bothers me that you brought up. You mentioned in a previous post about how god/allah is all forgiving. That is 100% in contradiction with the punishments you will receive if you don't follow islam's rules. How can an all forgiving god punish you for not being obedient? That would mean he's all-punishing no?

So one of these has to be wrong. He's either not all forgiving or islamic rules are wrong. Maybe you can tell me which is which.

 

[syed putra]

The arabs won the battle of Talas in 751 AD. The arabs pursued the retreating Tang troops but were ambushed and defeated. Chink Tang influence in the central asian regions declined from the year 755, just 4 years after Talas. It was due more to the An Lushan rebellion of 755 which permanently weakened the Tang Dynasty. Incidentally, An Lushan is not chink. He was a turkic noble given a chink name.

That turk could be a uighyrs. They are turkic tribes and speak a dialect of Turkish language

 

[syed putra]

Man writing a book about something as an unseen creator of infinite power is way more challenging than man writing a book about something as a never seen before creature from another planet.

It is called science fiction in some circles.

Historians are digging out the myths and found some similarities but nowhere near what is found in holy text.
Ten commandments for example could not have been written in hebrew as Hebrews have no written language during the period. It has to be in egyptian hieroglyphics.hence stone tablets as was the standard practice in that era.
It's fascinating.

 

[syed putra]

One thing that puzzles me though, is that if you praying to allah, why should direction matter? Why the need to face Mecca? Is allah there?

There is a verse from the Quran wrt to irrelevance of direction.


2:115 And to God belongs the East and the West – therefore wherever you are - God is right in front of you. Definitely God is omnipresent - all-knowing

So as you can see, no need to face mecca. In fact, no need for rituals.
Today's Muslims are consumed with rituals. All kinds of prohibition. That is not what it's suppose to be.

 

[syed putra]

If mongols rampages in muslim world and eventually some became muslims.but they were at war with land already under islamic rule except for russia and Baltic states, where they are known as tartars and remained muslims in name only till this day,
The mongols under kublai's yuan dynasty appointed muslim bureaucrats to manage china. The mongols were at the top with Muslims as second class citizens and chinese at the bottom as I was informed.islam did not catch on with chinese many chinese.
When mongols invaded india, northern indua was already islamic under Delhi sultanate.

so you agree there's some possibility?

Turks conquered land that were already Muslims that were slready weakened by mongol onslaught except for Russia, Bosnia and bulgaria who were mostly Turks themselves. They didn't spread Islam that much as locals maintained their original faith.

 

[whoami]

there is no proof at all.

what does statues have to do with god? what does Islam have to do with god? what does koran have to do with god? what does mecca have to do with god?

All but the 1st one is self-claimed by the people who created the Koran and Islam after Mohammed died. If they can claim his name after he died. (I call this reincarnating the dead for one's own purposes). Why can't they claim anything else they want to? They are so shameless to use a dead man to promote themselves, what else will they resort to? (Even sinkieland have this!)

So that's why I'm still searching. In the meantime, I talk directly to my next life even if I am not sure if anyone is listening.

I think most important to you than what I think is that if it brings you peace, by all means you should believe what you wish.

I don't know if you remember, but I only write to you because you asked me my thoughts, not because I wish to disrupt your peace. In fact, I hesitated a lot because I really don't wish to disrupt your peace. It is not my choice. If you ask, I feel I owe it to you to tell you the highest truth I have learned. I believe in ikhlas when I interact with people. I won't BS you or tell you stories. Just what I have learned and can be sure of.

btw, if it will make you happier, I can stop telling you what I learnt. No hard feelings abang.

One last thing before I finish. There is another contradiction that bothers me that you brought up. You mentioned in a previous post about how god/allah is all forgiving. That is 100% in contradiction with the punishments you will receive if you don't follow islam's rules. How can an all forgiving god punish you for not being obedient? That would mean he's all-punishing no?

So one of these has to be wrong. He's either not all forgiving or islamic rules are wrong. Maybe you can tell me which is which.

Yes. Islam, Quran, Mecca...has to do with God. All mentioned in the Quran, esp Islam. I have quoted several times in response to Syed with regards to Islam, the religion of God. Here..

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islām as religion. [Q 5:3]

Claimed Prophet pbuh name? I dont get it. On the contrary Muslims eveyday/nite worshipped proclaimed Allah s.w.t. name.

Yes bang. Never stop searching. I discussion is not to ask u to believe in Islam. U can caste ur net wide. Keep searching. But dont procrastinate too long. We never know when angel of death come knocking on ur door...

Islam means peace. I feel peace at heart..

NP bang. Like i said i have no problem discussing with u on the topic of Islam. This forum is abt tcss and discusson aint it? Not like others who think this place is for fighting arguing and swearing. I will try stay away fm such losers!

Its ok. U can always tell me wat u had learnt. Be it postive or negative.

Allah is compassionate and merciful. HE could have taken ur life now if HE wanted to, no? If teres no law, tere will be havoc. U need to answer to ur deed. No one will answer for ur crime. No one will die for ur sins. U reap wat u sow. If some asshole rape and murder somebody daughter. Should he go scot free or answer to the Lord?

 

[whoami]

There is a verse from the Quran wrt to irrelevance of direction.


2:115 And to God belongs the East and the West – therefore wherever you are - God is right in front of you. Definitely God is omnipresent - all-knowing

So as you can see, no need to face mecca. In fact, no need for rituals.
Today's Muslims are consumed with rituals. All kinds of prohibition. That is not what it's suppose to be.

Wat u had posted are all mentioned in the Quran. We follow the commandment of Allah azzawajal. U go ur way (religion), I go mine. Period!

 

[syed putra]

Idol worship, or associating partners with GOD, is the only unforgivable sin that is mentioned in the Quran. Yet, it seems that for the majority of us, our minds cannot accept GOD Alone!.





"The God DOES NOT FORGIVE that partners be established with Him, but He forgives other than that to whom He wishes" (4/48)

 

[syed putra]

Yes. Islam, Quran, Mecca...has to do with God. All mentioned in the Quran, esp Islam. I have quoted several times in response to Syed with regards to Islam, the religion of God. Here..

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islām as religion. [Q 5:3]

Claimed Prophet pbuh name? I dont get it. On the contrary Muslims eveyday/nite worshipped proclaimed Allah s.w.t. name.

Yes bang. Never stop searching. I discussion is not to ask u to believe in Islam. U can caste ur net wide. Keep searching. But dont procrastinate too long. We never know when angel of death come knocking on ur door...

Islam means peace. I feel peace at heart..

NP bang. Like i said i have no problem discussing with u on the topic of Islam. This forum is abt tcss and discusson aint it? Not like others who think this place is for fighting arguing and swearing. I will try stay away fm such losers!

Its ok. U can always tell me wat u had learnt. Be it postive or negative.

Allah is compassionate and merciful. HE could have taken ur life now if HE wanted to, no? If teres no law, tere will be havoc. U need to answer to ur deed. No one will answer for ur crime. No one will die for ur sins. U reap wat u sow. If some asshole rape and murder somebody daughter. Should he go scot free or answer to the Lord?

My version of your bold statement

“Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you…” (Quran 5:3)

 

[whoami]

My version of your bold statement

“Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you…” (Quran 5:3)

Boleh lah bhai. System system lah. U can also belit and say no prophet Muhammad mentioned in the Quran. Only the praised one.

 

[JohnTan]

Because when Islam is practised in a secular society, naturally many gets politicised.

Anyway the Bible is full of errors, mistakes and contradictions.
Either your God is blur sotong or humans changed his words to suit their interests.

The Bible is the Gospel Truth. Period.

islam has been politicised from the very start. mohamed's closest companions were already killing each other over power shortly after mohamed finally died from poison in his food.

Your quran is incomplete and edited according to the whims and fancies of mahomet's scribes. Nowhere close to being a revelation of God.

Your quran isn't even the 'final word' of your moon god or fake prophet. Your mahomet didn't even know that there would be a hadith, which would officially be the final religious word of the moon god.

 

[JohnTan]

there is no proof at all.

what does statues have to do with god? what does Islam have to do with god? what does koran have to do with god? what does mecca have to do with god?

Idolatory in islam.

 

[JohnTan]

“Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you…” (Quran 5:3)

That statement is wrong, even when looking at islam solely from islamic text.

At that moment, there was still no hadith yet. Neither has the quran been compiled. So how can islam be complete at the point of quran 5 : 3 ?

Based on moslem sources, islam could be complete only after both the quran and hadith were compiled.

 

[JohnTan]

Turks conquered land that were already Muslims that were slready weakened by mongol onslaught except for Russia, Bosnia and bulgaria who were mostly Turks themselves. They didn't spread Islam that much as locals maintained their original faith.

Anatolia wasn't moslem. Neither were most parts of the Balkans or India.

Without the turkic invasions from the 10th century onwards, islam wouldn't have made that much headway into anatolia or india.

 

[JohnTan]

thanks for fleshing it out.

I'm surprised you are not teaching history of Islam or Asia somewhere.

Colleges may not like the way I teach history. I would teach based on facts, not on siding with my own race or religion. Most schools of thought teach history based on religious, racial, nationality chauvinism. They speak with pride about their own people conquering others but scream for justice when they get overrun by other invaders.