HDB Mortgage SLAVES

[johnny333]

Look at malaysia. Oppo there more than Sg right? same mix of ethnicity as Sg. infighting among cheenas. what happen to the country there? better than sg? don't anyhow blame lah.

people of our kind of race can only thrive in pap system. more oppo means malaysia situation. you like it?

......

Yes, go take a look at Malaysia. It has opposition parties. They don't provide all the answers, but do provide the people with alternatives to UMNO.

The M'sian gov't is looking after it's people, it can't take the people for granted.

The gov't subsidises petrol, cooking oil,... Healthcare is affordable & many Sporeans choose to go there to get treatment rather than to get "subsidised" medical treatment in Spore.

The public transport is cheap, car ownership is affordable. Housing is affordable.

Given the choice between some corrupted & lazy Malaysian politicians vs Spores PAP politician, I'd chose Malaysian politicians because they are cheaper & less intrusive to the average citizen. While the PAP's social engineering has screwed up Sporeans: not enough babies, alot of single old maids, unemployed 30+ olds, over reliance on maids,..

Look at how inefficient the PAP gov't is : billions of tax payers $$$ lost , man made floods, failing atm system, uncontrolled gov't spending,.... AND no one in the Spore gov't has taken responsibility. Same thing can happen again & again & again,..because there's no check & balances in the system.

 

[longbow]

But isn't this the same with ALL 99 year leasehold property?? It is not just HDB but all 99 year property. The whole of sentosa is 99 yr property including the $15M bungalow belonging to Singaporean whose KTV friend died in the pool. All these are 99 year lease.

U need to hang out with a different crowd. Singapore has been one of the highest educated societies in the world. If the Ah pek and Ah so don't understand how it works, too bad. MOst other people u talk to in their 40s, 30s, even in their 50s are totally ignorant as to how the 99 lease works.These people need to be educated, and they have the tools ot understand it.

The Ah Pek and Ah so need to know if u wait too long, your flat value is drastically decreased. If u sell in the middle of the lease say around year 45 to year 50, most banks will not finance and they will get little returns. Also when they calculate their returns, they don't take into account how much money they were forced to spend on upgrades. This has to be added to the capital costs. And if they sell in a recession year, such as 2 years ago, again they will see less return.

People who bought their flats 15 years ago are not going to be in the same boat as these people. These are the people I talk to mostly. People in their 30s and 40s. Ah Peks and Ah sos bought their flats when it was truly subsidized, not market subsidized, and they are increasingly the minority lucky few. What u are talking about is comparing apples and oranges. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[UpYoz_olo]

Yes, go take a look at Malaysia. It has opposition parties. They don't provide all the answers, but do provide the people with alternatives to UMNO.

The M'sian gov't is looking after it's people, it can't take the people for granted.

The gov't subsidises petrol, cooking oil,... Healthcare is affordable & many Sporeans choose to go there to get treatment rather than to get "subsidised" medical treatment in Spore.

The public transport is cheap, car ownership is affordable. Housing is affordable.

Given the choice between some corrupted & lazy Malaysian politicians vs Spores PAP politician, I'd chose Malaysian politicians because they are cheaper & less intrusive to the average citizen. While the PAP's social engineering has screwed up Sporeans: not enough babies, alot of single old maids, unemployed 30+ olds, over reliance on maids,..

Look at how inefficient the PAP gov't is : billions of tax payers $$$ lost , man made floods, failing atm system, uncontrolled gov't spending,.... AND no one in the Spore gov't has taken responsibility. Same thing can happen again & again & again,..because there's no check & balances in the system.

What is the alternative to UMNO or more correctly BN? Even before they can come close to the required numbers, the oppo there is falling apart - bastoods oppo mp jumping over to the other side due to greed and self- serving reasons. Look at Sg oppo. isnt it the same thing play over again here as well? oppo politicians changing parties like clothes.

I will be the last one to be convinced oppos are needed here simply because there are none. the capable one are wise enough to join pap. but if you like donkeys to liven up parliament who can stop you.

At least there was 67% of sgporean not sharing your view. it's fortunate.

:oIo:

 

[johnny333]

What is the alternative to UMNO or more correctly BN? Even before they can come close to the required numbers, the oppo there is falling apart - bastoods oppo mp jumping over to the other side due to greed and self- serving reasons. Look at Sg oppo. isnt it the same thing play over again here as well? oppo politicians changing parties like clothes.

I will be the last one to be convinced oppos are needed here simply because there are none. the capable one are wise enough to join pap. but if you like donkeys to liven up parliament who can stop you.

At least there was 67% of sgporean not sharing your view. it's fortunate.

:oIo:

My point is that a country needs a system of check a balance to avoid dictactors like LKY.

A party doesn't need to be the dominant party to be an effective opposition. As long as there are enough not to be cowed & silenced by the dominant party.

The PAP is an example of what happens when there aren't enough opposition members. They don't show up, sleep in parliament, talk about nonsense subjects e.g. recipes,..

If Sporeans put enough opposition members into parliament, you can bet that more questions of PAP mismanagement would be brought up.

There are 84 elected members in the Spore parliament. 82 seats are held by the PAP. How many of these PAP MPs have shown that they deserve to be in parliament There are alot of useless back benchers waiting to be be replaced by the opposition

 

[theDoors]

What is the alternative to UMNO or more correctly BN? Even before they can come close to the required numbers, the oppo there is falling apart - bastoods oppo mp jumping over to the other side due to greed and self- serving reasons. Look at Sg oppo. isnt it the same thing play over again here as well? oppo politicians changing parties like clothes.

I will be the last one to be convinced oppos are needed here simply because there are none. the capable one are wise enough to join pap. but if you like donkeys to liven up parliament who can stop you.

At least there was 67% of sgporean not sharing your view. it's fortunate.

:oIo:

But I do see Najib working harder for his money...

I would very much like to see our PM work hard for his pay.

 

[borom]

Singapore came in 81 out of 155 countries surveyed in a ranking of the The World's Happiest Countries.Researchers at the Gallup World Poll went about it by surveying thousands between 2005 and 2009.

Subjects that reported high scores were considered "thriving." The percentage of thriving individuals in each country determined its rankings

The percentage of thriving individuals in Singapore was 19%, below that of places like New Zealand, Australia, Israel, Taiwan, S Korea, and Thailand.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/14/world-happiest-countries-lifestyle-realestate-gallup-table.html

What struck me was the matching figure of 19% to the non HDB dwellers in Singapore.

The percentage of struggling/suffering of 75%/6% in Singapore was close to that of the 80% that stayed in HDB flats.

 

[darthboy]

I have posted a response to this thread 30+ days ago. I cannot find any response to my response.

I can only conclude that none of you have asked to inspect the original "loan document" that you signed upon purchase of the HDB flat.

I can only conclude that all of you agree that the original "loan document" does not have to be returned to you upon full re-payment.

I can only conclude that all of you are re-paying the loan voluntarily.

 

[neddy]

The central political issues are

1) CPF has failed as retirement fund and now acts as an escrow acct for the Govt to collect HDB installment payments.
2) Failing to provide affordable housing
3) Failing to provide jobs to secure affordable housing

If even public housing is unaffordable, then who are providing affordable housing? Unless the original aim of providing affordable housing is achieved and there is no need for this safety net anymore.

 

[kojakbt]

If even public housing is unaffordable, then who are providing affordable housing? Unless the original aim of providing affordable housing is achieved and there is no need for this safety net anymore.

Actually, to be fair to PAP, in their early years, they do care for the people (e.g. the story of Lim Kim San talking to a resident in Chinatown but was hiding under a blanket cause he got no proper trousers to wear to meet Lim Kim San - Lim Kim San resolved to house the people of Singapore...)

So, in the early years, PAP did resolve to provide affordable housings to Singaporeans. Nowadays, the story is different lah... people are saying HDBs are more expensive now than before and less affordable but Mah Bow Tan can still insist that it is affordable.... lying thru his teeth... I don't know what has gotten into PAP these days...

 

[Subok]

PAP? they had lost it.... they lost their human touch with the ground...

They are already self proclaimed celestial beings decreed by 66% to DOMINATE and RULE over us 100%.

I never regret what I marked on my voting slip. My only regret is many voted against their conscience for fear of lighting strike or worst! the drop in their HDB flat value!


Now that HDB had locked up 50% of the profit proceed of HDB flats, I hope this will wake up those who fear the value of their flat dropping to vote against PAP as whether they realized the profit or not, the money stays with CPF!

 

[theDoors]

Could "never retire" be the missing link in understanding the current pricing policies???

 

[theDoors]

Could "never retire" be the missing link in understanding the current pricing policies???

The current "imbalance" is not by accident but carefully crafted to effect policy.

 

[danteakc]

3o years of loan, you have to slog for at leat 15 years of interest before you actually paying your loan. With mine calculations, it will be at least 100 per cent of your loan. This is easy calculation. What if you are retrench or lose your jobs. The other problem is your children, unless they are very bright. Or they will not be able to buy new flat, provided they have rich parents. How many of us are born lucky?.

actually it is first 3 years. First 3 years you dun see loans reduce until the 4th year.

 

[theDoors]

Aug 23, 2010
Fall in mortgage default rates
By Jonathan Kwok

http://www.straitstimes.com/print/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_569914.html

THE level of mortgage default has dropped dramatically over the past two years, thanks to the improving property market and low interest rates.

Only 0.43 per cent of borrowers - or one in 233 - were in default in their mortgage payments in March. That is down from the 0.59 per cent - or one in 169 - at the same point last year.

It is also less than half the rate in 2008, when the economy began to sour. Then, 0.89 per cent - or one in 112 - of mortgage holders lagged in their payments.

'The numbers represent an improvement in the property market leading to more positive sentiment,' said Mr Lincoln Teo, general manager of information firm DP Credit Bureau, which conducted the study. 'This indirectly drives better payment behaviour from mortgagors.'

He added the better payment situation comes amid greater efforts from consumers to maintain or improve their credit worthiness as they realise its importance for securing future borrowings.

The study also showed middle-aged Singaporeans are overtaking younger borrowers as the group with the highest mortgage default rate. People aged between 50 and 59 had the highest percentage of loans in arrears, with 0.62 per cent in default.

Copyright © 2007 Singapore Press Holdings.

 

[theDoors]

With HDB prices sky rocketing, I think the default rate will see a dramatic rise 5 to 10 years down the road.

50-somethings overtake the young ones as highest loan defaulters
05:55 AM Aug 27, 2010
by Alicia Wong

SINGAPORE - With a car loan, three schooling children and daily expenses, it was a "terrible time" some years ago when Madam G T Kee's husband lost his job.

"I was very worried. I didn't know what would happen if I couldn't pay the housing loan," she said. Keeping her job as an accountant was one of her foremost concerns, since Mdm Kee, 56, was using her Central Provident Fund to pay the loan.

She deferred her insurance premiums and borrowed against her insurance to pay "critical loans". Her husband had set up a business after being retrenched but the income was unstable.

Their troubles lasted about two years. Then, their condominium went en bloc, and she cleared the housing loan in 2007.

While fewer in her age group still face difficulties meeting mortgage payments, some observers feel that there is reason to remain concerned, now that it has been revealed that the 50-somethings have the highest percentage of loans in arrears.

They have overtaken the 21- to 29-year-olds, traditionally the group with the biggest proportion of defaults.

DP Credit Bureau reported on Monday that 0.62 per cent of these seniors are behind in their payments. The bureau was unable to provide actual numbers, deemed to be "commercially confidential".

Some Members of Parliament attest to the findings.

Mdm Halimah Yacob said she has seen more seniors seeking help over their mortgage payments. From a few cases a year, she started to see a few cases each month over the last two years.

They typically have lost their job and face difficulty finding another due to their low education levels and skills; even for those re-employed, they take as much as a 30- to 40-per-cent pay cut, she said.

MP Inderjit Singh (Ang Mo Kio GRC)said seniors have always been more vulnerable to losing their jobs. "The best thing we can do is to get them employment that would give them a salary enough to handle the (mortgage) payment," he said.

Financial planning, as always, is key before committing to a big loan, said the MP, who has seen residents whose incomes do not rise as significantly, as had been hoped, or decrease instead.

NO CAUSE FOR WORRY YET

Tanjong Pagar Family Service Centre executive director Wong Kwong Sing thinks the latest percentages are due to the recession last year. Employees in their 50s may have commanded a higher pay and hence the "first batch to be chopped", he said.

Banks also conduct risk assessments before issuing loans, said Mr Wong, whose centre seldom sees seniors seeking help in this area.

Similarly, Fei Yue Family Service Centre head Rachel Lee said she sees more families where the parents are below 50, typically with children in primary and/or secondary school. "For those with housing issues, it starts in their 30s and 40s," she said.

National University of Singapore professor Chua Beng Huat, whose research interests includes housing, said that "a less than 1-per-cent default is hardly something to worry about".

Many may be short-term, and they will resume payments once the cause is resolved, he said.

Indeed, DP Credit's data revealed an overall improvement, with the percentage of defaults for the 50-59 age bracket more than 1 per cent two years ago.

Based on her research, NUS assistant professor Angelique Chan thinks there is a need, though, "to keep an eye on healthcare costs and the impact that would have on people's ability to keep their mortgages".

Some may default due to health issues or health episodes in the family, she said.

Taking into account higher life expectancy and that "there's still some discrimination against older workers", those caring for parents and children need to be more realistic in their long-term planning, she added.

Financial services consultant Daniel Lee advised home owners to explore re-financing their homes to reduce the interest owed, and not to take a full loan since banks may call for a top-up if there is a property slump. Alicia Wong
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapo...ake-the-young-ones-as-highest-loan-defaulters

Copyright 2010 MediaCorp Pte Ltd | All Rights Reserve

 

[theDoors]

http://www.findsingapore.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10583

By 2030, there will be at least 900,000 65 year old and old retired Singaporeans.

Assuming an average of S$500 pm CPF Life payment, or S$6,000 per annum.

It means there is a drain of S$5.4-billion per annum from CPF Corporation. In 2030, has PAP Government got the fund to service this CPF Life annual payout?

Assume PAP Government agreed to apply Reverse Mortgage Scheme for 2-room, 3-room and 4-room flat as a means to help out retired Singaporeans.
Assume 500,000 HDB dwelling units are eligible in 2030.

Assume an average of S$10,000 per annum payout to each HDB dwelling unit.
It means an annual outlay of S$10,000 x 500,000 = S$5-billion per annum.

America is now using 17% of its GDP for medical and healthcare.

Presently, the budget for healthcare is about 3% of GDP.
Assuming that due to ageing baby-boomers, healthcare budget doubels up, meaning about S$4-billion per annum is needed just tot ake care of teh need of an ageing population in terms of subsidised medicine, hospitals, community hospitals, geriatrics polyclinics, nurisng homes and hospices.

And of course, by 2030, PAP Government can easily spend about S$1-billion per annum for LUP, MUP and SERC.

Add up the future burden in 2030 due to our ageing infrastructures and ageing HDB estates, plus 900,000 unproductive consumers of 65 year old retired SIngaporeans, and we have to find money of at least:

5.4 + 5 + 4 + 1 = S$15.4-billion.

7% GST = S$7-billion collection.

And dear Singaporeans, I envisage that GST will go up to 15% (on par with European countries today GST rate) by 2030 just to service all those soical welfarism which we enjoy today...cleverly packaged as Workfare, Progressive Payment, etc.

And the above S$15-billion is a piffy sum as compared to the looming financial disaster, starting in 2030..and yes, the very foundation of PAP Government Success Story - our very own HDB Estates.

I dimly remembered a reinforced cocnrete handbook that I read which indicated that reinforced cocnrete strength starts to deteriorate after 75 years; and worse if it is post-tensioned (PT).
And we use lots of PT slabs and PT beams due to our prefabricated methid of construction.

Imagine you are leaving in a 3-room HDB flat built in 1965. It will be 65 years old in 2030.
You bought it from resale market in 2010 at S$300,000; hoping that it will increase by at least 50% to S$450,000 by 2030.
And if you are lucky and there is another Property Bubble, you can sell it for S$600,000!!!

But the Seller forgot one little fact.
Can the prospective buyer gets a bank loan for a 60+ year odl flat with only 39 of lease remaining?

SO, poor Seller is "asset rich, cash poor" as he or she simply cannot find any buyer and may very well have to lower the selling price to attract buyers!!!

Therefore, Mah Bow Tan's assumption of a continual upward curve of appreciating values hold no water for those poor saps snapping up all those 30+ year old HDB flats - built in the 60s - to the tune of S$250,000 to S$350,000 in 2010.

Then, the chain reaction starts.
There is a large overhang of 60s and 70s HDB flats with no buyers, and will certainly depress the HDB resale market - meaning there is no asset appreciaiton for HDB flats by 2030.

Instead, there is price stagnation due to thsoe unsellable 60+ year odl HDB flats in the market.

Then, how will those affected - say 300,000 to 500,000 HDB householders retire if they can't cash in their "asset appreciated" HDB flats to downgrade to a smaller HDB unit?

Imagine 500,000 60+ year old HDB flats that no buyer will want.
And PAP Government has no choice but to Reverse Mortgage those 500,000 HDB units to enable retired SIngaporeans to have a decent pension funds.

Assume an average price of S$300,000 per HDB unit.
Then, 500,000 units = S$150-billion!!!!!

If the payout is S$5-billion per annum, then those 500,000 HDB house owners will receive their payment during a 30 year period.

Now, what if in 2030, your HDB block is declared struturally unsafe and must be demolished?

Then, force majuere comes into play and you may end up with zilch as your expected asset appreciation of S$450,000 instantly ebcomes worthless as your home is no more, demolished and the land revert back to HDB, i.e. PAP Government.

At one stroke, youa re 65 year old, hapily looking froward to retirement.

Then, WHAM! BAM!

You "asset apprection" of a HDB flat is no more but a pile of rubbles and you become an instant pauper with 30-year of hard earned CPF money just turned into conrete dust.

Therfore, Mr. Mah Bow Tan, has you ever think of a 60-year old, and rapidly ageing year by year - HDB flat will ever appreciate on an upward curve when buyers will ehsitate, not because they can't get a bank loan, but becaue of the inherent nature of reinforced concrete strength starts to deteriorate after 75 years or more?

Apparently the only solution to ensure continual asset appreciationI can think of is sadly that for 60 year old HDB blocks (and even private dwelling units), is en bloc, demolishment and re-building.

Meaning that HDB ownbers will need to fork out money to pay for:
- to renew the land elase bakc to 99-year.
- to pay for a newly constructed HDB flats.

I trust you all can see the fallacy of Mr. Mah Bow Tan's lovely advice of "your HDB flat will appreciate and you can then sell it, downgrade to a smaller unit and retire on the capital appreciation".

 

[bic_cherry]

SG Foreigner Public Housing Rental Levy (FPHRL): Please return HDB to ALL Singaporean

I have been writing a lot on HDB policies and the ills of it recently basically because I am keeping up the pressure on the Minister of National Development to do something about it....

SG Foreigner Public Housing Rental Levy (FPHRL): Please return HDB to ALL Singaporeans now.
"HDB plans and develops public housing towns that provide Singaporeans with quality homes and living environments."

At a time when the nation's birth rates are being stymied by the lack of affordable public housing, how can foreigner demand be prevented from skewing HDB flat prices?

How about a more egalitarian way of distributing public housing which adopts a more stable and progressive approach towards the provision of public housing in Singapore?

The following suggestions return HDB to its original mission of "Providing Affordable, Quality Homes" to Singaporeans and PRs:

1. Owner occupancy ought to be promoted, as such, ALL HDB should thus for the consideration of property tax, be considered a 'primary abode' and thus be charged property tax at the usual discounted owner-occupied rate of 4%. Any OTHER residential property owned by a HDB flat owner(s) shall be for the purposes of taxation, be charged the higher non-owner-occupied rate of 10%.
2. As 'subsidised' public housing is a limited commodity, no owners(s) should possess a 'subsidised' public property larger than the owners(s) maximal needs, defined as [800sq FT + X (300sqFT)], where X is the number of registered SC/PR owners of such a flat. i.e. a couple can own up to a maximum of [800 + 2(300)]= 1400sqFT sized HDB unit. - this is so that no SC/PR consumes in excess of his equitable share of 'subsidised' public property- in a state where land is limited and as a result of new PRs, young SC/PR couples now postpone marriage due to lack of affordable public housing; and so that large 'granny' units remain available to multi-tier families and not the fiefdom of landlords or other suspect use. {[800 + 2(300)] is a rough guideline, the actual numbers may be adjusted as appropriate.} This new guideline would give married couples (and those with larger families) an upper hand over smaller families and singles by ensuring that 'subsidised' public housing is optimally utilized. A public housing unit too big for the number of registered occupants is given between 6 months to 2 yrs, as circumstances require, to be disposed of- unless granted an exception as a case by case might requisite.
3. Should the owner of the HDB want to rent out the flat or rooms, then the tenant(s) should preferably be SC/PR, however where this isn't the case, then foreigners may rent the HDB unit subject to a govt levy of 20%rental rate OR S$80/pax/month, whichever the greater, all of which subject to usual HDB crowd control rules. Proper registration with HDB about the details of this arrangement are necessary, fines and confiscations of property may be imposed for offenders.
4. The a/m policies would make HDB's job of planning for population expansion easier and ensure efficient utilization of HDB apartments and that only SC/PR remain the primary users of public housing in Singapore. Singaporeans would always remain first class in their own country and foreigners wishing to enjoy the safe and secure environment here would have to contribute accordingly.

Minister Mah's new rules are NOT equitable as they are clumsy, somewhat unenforceable and serves little to clear old baggage- that of foreigners renting cheap 'subsidised' public housing and thus driving HDB prices at the expense of citizens who now have problems finding affordable housing for themselves, thus resulting in the postponement of marriage and in consequence, a dearth of babies in Singapore.

It is recently reported that "24,000 flat owners - own both private property and HDB flats." - how many of these flats are being rented out to foreigners to the deprivation of young SC couples? How many large HDB flats are being monopolized by individual owners for personal use or rental returns?
Would a HDB price correction of 20% occur now that rental returns from foreign lessees are taxed at 20%?

The MND must quickly implement the foreigner public housing levy as described above to level the playing field between SC, PR and foreigner ownership and use of 'subsidised' public housing programmes.

May all citizens in this world feel at home in their countries of origin.
May the Singapore citizen enjoy the privileges of citizenship, financial status notwithstanding.
May all Singaporeans feel equal in their own home country.

Majulah Singapura, I love Singapore.

Comments/ Responses?
Rgds
B.C.

PS:
Please scrap the stupid restriction on pte property owners buying HDB (within their entitlement-Pt2) as refered to in 'Don't deny investors a choice' and the silly 'no other property' rule (abroad inclusive) because it's 'over-consumption' and the 'foreigner demand' that pushes up HDB prices. The former is regulated by ownership entitlement restrictions, the latter by 'foreigner public housing rental levies'(FPHRL) and not airy fairy policies please.

References:
- 'About Us> Our Role> Providing Affordable, Quality Homes': "HDB plans and develops public housing towns that provide Singaporeans with quality homes and living environments. " [HDB InfoWeb]
- 'Housing Prices affect Birth Rates as well... !!!': "The objective of HDB flat was originally meant to provide families a rooftop at a reasonable low cost. It has diverted so largely from its original objective in late years and this issue had affected many young couples especially local Singaporeans. I really strongly hope that the government would take measures to curb all these rising prices. " [REACH 16Sept2010]
- 'Not penalising private home owners': "About 3 per cent of HDB flat owners - or 24,000 flat owners - own both private property and HDB flats." [TDY 16Sept2010]
- 'YPAP leader and new citizen Sinha Shekhar complains about low rent of his resale HDB flat': "Mr Sinha also revealed that he owns a private property, implying that he bought the resale HDB flat NOT for staying but for renting and making money." [TR22June2010]
- 'Don't deny investors a choice': "Over the years, this "sandwiched" class of private property owners worked hard to pay for their homes with the intention to move to an HDB flat during retirement. The private property could then be rented out to provide a stream of retirement income. The new requirement has effectively killed the hopes of many such people." [ST 1Sept2010]

 

[ninkampoop]

wow.. my first visit here and i am so impressed with the input you guys have..

Many people claimed taht the CPF is empty. I wonder if it really is.

If you think about it, it is all but a number u can view from some website. The FACt is that you can not just withdraw from it as you like. They kept putting a higher min sum, and kept pushing back the retirement age.

So if it is empty, and they put a high price on the properties, it is a left hand to right hand kinda transaction. From CPF to hdb to whatsoever.. just numbers passing around and we do not see the actual money at work. As the properties gets more expensive, more from the cpf is used for it, and isnt it a very good cover for any money that is allegedly lost in the investments?

They can say pump in how much bonus into our cpf, (bearing in mind you always have to contribute first to 'get' the topup), how much interest you can get etc, but if property prices and min sum etc kept going up, we are just talking abt some virtual money.

if i am the govt, i would love it that the houses keep getting more expensive.. in that way, your cpf will be spent.. and i dun have to worry about how to answer if in any case, anyone wanna check the vault.

but im ignorant.. do they publish any financial statement of the CPF yearly?

 

[kojakbt]

wow.. my first visit here and i am so impressed with the input you guys have..

Some of the stuff that the bros here wrote can really put Scholar Mah Bow Tan to shame... HAHAHA!

 

[UpYoz_olo]

http://www.findsingapore.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10583

By 2030, there will be at least 900,000 65 year old and old retired Singaporeans.

Assuming an average of S$500 pm CPF Life payment, or S$6,000 per annum.

It means there is a drain of S$5.4-billion per annum from CPF Corporation. In 2030, has PAP Government got the fund to service this CPF Life annual payout?

Assume PAP Government agreed to apply Reverse Mortgage Scheme for 2-room, 3-room and 4-room flat as a means to help out retired Singaporeans.
Assume 500,000 HDB dwelling units are eligible in 2030.

Assume an average of S$10,000 per annum payout to each HDB dwelling unit.
It means an annual outlay of S$10,000 x 500,000 = S$5-billion per annum.

America is now using 17% of its GDP for medical and healthcare.

Presently, the budget for healthcare is about 3% of GDP.
Assuming that due to ageing baby-boomers, healthcare budget doubels up, meaning about S$4-billion per annum is needed just tot ake care of teh need of an ageing population in terms of subsidised medicine, hospitals, community hospitals, geriatrics polyclinics, nurisng homes and hospices.

And of course, by 2030, PAP Government can easily spend about S$1-billion per annum for LUP, MUP and SERC.

Add up the future burden in 2030 due to our ageing infrastructures and ageing HDB estates, plus 900,000 unproductive consumers of 65 year old retired SIngaporeans, and we have to find money of at least:

5.4 + 5 + 4 + 1 = S$15.4-billion.

7% GST = S$7-billion collection.

And dear Singaporeans, I envisage that GST will go up to 15% (on par with European countries today GST rate) by 2030 just to service all those soical welfarism which we enjoy today...cleverly packaged as Workfare, Progressive Payment, etc.

And the above S$15-billion is a piffy sum as compared to the looming financial disaster, starting in 2030..and yes, the very foundation of PAP Government Success Story - our very own HDB Estates.

I dimly remembered a reinforced cocnrete handbook that I read which indicated that reinforced cocnrete strength starts to deteriorate after 75 years; and worse if it is post-tensioned (PT).
And we use lots of PT slabs and PT beams due to our prefabricated methid of construction.

Imagine you are leaving in a 3-room HDB flat built in 1965. It will be 65 years old in 2030.
You bought it from resale market in 2010 at S$300,000; hoping that it will increase by at least 50% to S$450,000 by 2030.
And if you are lucky and there is another Property Bubble, you can sell it for S$600,000!!!

But the Seller forgot one little fact.
Can the prospective buyer gets a bank loan for a 60+ year odl flat with only 39 of lease remaining?

SO, poor Seller is "asset rich, cash poor" as he or she simply cannot find any buyer and may very well have to lower the selling price to attract buyers!!!

Therefore, Mah Bow Tan's assumption of a continual upward curve of appreciating values hold no water for those poor saps snapping up all those 30+ year old HDB flats - built in the 60s - to the tune of S$250,000 to S$350,000 in 2010.

Then, the chain reaction starts.
There is a large overhang of 60s and 70s HDB flats with no buyers, and will certainly depress the HDB resale market - meaning there is no asset appreciaiton for HDB flats by 2030.

Instead, there is price stagnation due to thsoe unsellable 60+ year odl HDB flats in the market.

Then, how will those affected - say 300,000 to 500,000 HDB householders retire if they can't cash in their "asset appreciated" HDB flats to downgrade to a smaller HDB unit?

Imagine 500,000 60+ year old HDB flats that no buyer will want.
And PAP Government has no choice but to Reverse Mortgage those 500,000 HDB units to enable retired SIngaporeans to have a decent pension funds.

Assume an average price of S$300,000 per HDB unit.
Then, 500,000 units = S$150-billion!!!!!

If the payout is S$5-billion per annum, then those 500,000 HDB house owners will receive their payment during a 30 year period.

Now, what if in 2030, your HDB block is declared struturally unsafe and must be demolished?

Then, force majuere comes into play and you may end up with zilch as your expected asset appreciation of S$450,000 instantly ebcomes worthless as your home is no more, demolished and the land revert back to HDB, i.e. PAP Government.

At one stroke, youa re 65 year old, hapily looking froward to retirement.

Then, WHAM! BAM!

You "asset apprection" of a HDB flat is no more but a pile of rubbles and you become an instant pauper with 30-year of hard earned CPF money just turned into conrete dust.

Therfore, Mr. Mah Bow Tan, has you ever think of a 60-year old, and rapidly ageing year by year - HDB flat will ever appreciate on an upward curve when buyers will ehsitate, not because they can't get a bank loan, but becaue of the inherent nature of reinforced concrete strength starts to deteriorate after 75 years or more?

Apparently the only solution to ensure continual asset appreciationI can think of is sadly that for 60 year old HDB blocks (and even private dwelling units), is en bloc, demolishment and re-building.

Meaning that HDB ownbers will need to fork out money to pay for:
- to renew the land elase bakc to 99-year.
- to pay for a newly constructed HDB flats.

I trust you all can see the fallacy of Mr. Mah Bow Tan's lovely advice of "your HDB flat will appreciate and you can then sell it, downgrade to a smaller unit and retire on the capital appreciation".

Are you a clone of GMS? Babbling clowns trying to act smart. I can bet you my last penny that paying out all the billions is nothing and will never be a problem. That is the beauty of fiat money. MAS is the printing press so where's the problem?

:oIo: