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good luck to all those leasehold private condo in future when your super high condo cannot be enbloc anymore...

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Do you think it is worth paying a premium for freehold condos over 99 year lease condos?
do bears shit in the woods?

There is premiums and then there is premiums. A few years ago, i ask bros if they could find me a cheaper freehold condo. The one that I found was $775 PSF. That was the time to buy, U cannot get any freehold condo now for under $1100 psf. When you are buying freehold so cheap, there is very little premium over a 99 year lease condo, and in fact could be even cheaper. One bro quoted $719 psf for a kim keat freehold condo. If u had bought a cheap freehold in 2015 when I posted that thread, u would have made minimum 50% capital gains on your condo, plus another minimum $30K a year in rental income. Your ROI is 200-300% minimum.

https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/qu...pest-freehold-condo-in-the-market-now.218164/
 
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nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
do bears shit in the woods?

There is premiums and then there is premiums. A few years ago, i ask bros if they could find me a cheaper freehold condo. The one that I found was $775 PSF. That was the time to buy, U cannot get any freehold condo now for under $1100 psf. When you are buying freehold so cheap, there is very little premium over a 99 year lease condo, and in fact could be even cheaper. One bro quoted $719 psf for a kim keat freehold condo

https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/qu...pest-freehold-condo-in-the-market-now.218164/

The context of my question is more in terms of en bloc. If the exit strategy for both freehold and 99 year lease condo is to go em bloc is there a big difference between the returns from 99 year lease condo vs freehold condo?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
The context of my question is more in terms of en bloc. If the exit strategy for both freehold and 99 year lease condo is to go em bloc is there a big difference between the returns from 99 year lease condo vs freehold condo?

U are looking at it from the wrong point of view. The returns from an en bloc is declining exponentially for a 99 year leasehold, whereas for a freehold, its not as time sensitive. U have to look at the time factor. as the leasehold condo gets older, the developer doing the enbloc must weight the remaining years on the lease and what he can get as a top up from whoever owns the land. eg. if there is 50 years left on the 99 year lease, and he can get another 99 years a top up, its worth more for him then if the lease decays down to 20 years and then he gets a top up. Also, the other factor is how much more density he can get on that 99 year freehold land. even if he gets the top up he wants, he has to have some certainty that the govt will allow a much higher plot ratio to make it worth his while. Lots nearer the core districts have higher chances then those in outlying areas to get more density. The extra 10 storeys he can potentially get, determines in part what he is willing to pay for the enbloc.

The exit strategy for a freehold is not necessarily enbloc. It could be a JV with an established developer whereby the owners will put up the land and the developer builds a new higher density tower. Of course, this has not been tried, but its not impossible. The easiest is an enbloc. but they are not subject to the time constraint on the freehold. so in theory, they can ride the property market cycle and sell at the top to a developer whereas the leasehold condo owners might have to sell regardless of the market condition due to the their lease time constraints.

In short, the returns are difficult to calculate for both scenarios. but in general, freehold do better. how much better is dependent on what i mentioned and also on location.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
U are looking at it from the wrong point of view. The returns from an en bloc is declining exponentially for a 99 year leasehold, whereas for a freehold, its not as time sensitive. U have to look at the time factor. as the leasehold condo gets older, the developer doing the enbloc must weight the remaining years on the lease and what he can get as a top up from whoever owns the land. eg. if there is 50 years left on the 99 year lease, and he can get another 99 years a top up, its worth more for him then if the lease decays down to 20 years and then he gets a top up. Also, the other factor is how much more density he can get on that 99 year freehold land. even if he gets the top up he wants, he has to have some certainty that the govt will allow a much higher plot ratio to make it worth his while. Lots nearer the core districts have higher chances then those in outlying areas to get more density. The extra 10 storeys he can potentially get, determines in part what he is willing to pay for the enbloc.

The exit strategy for a freehold is not necessarily enbloc. It could be a JV with an established developer whereby the owners will put up the land and the developer builds a new higher density tower. Of course, this has not been tried, but its not impossible. The easiest is an enbloc. but they are not subject to the time constraint on the freehold. so in theory, they can ride the property market cycle and sell at the top to a developer whereas the leasehold condo owners might have to sell regardless of the market condition due to the their lease time constraints.

In short, the returns are difficult to calculate for both scenarios. but in general, freehold do better. how much better is dependent on what i mentioned and also on location.

Thanks for explaining. So freehold is still vastly superior.
 
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bobby

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's not so much the lease period but also the ridiculous high prices associated with the short leases....works out cheaper to rent than to buy leasehold properties.
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's not so much the lease period but also the ridiculous high prices associated with the short leases....works out cheaper to rent than to buy leasehold properties.

the many years loan with high interest is the one killing all of us owning a hdb.
the ONLY way to beat this system is buy a hdb flat after 6 years later migrate to a better countries take out our hard earn cpf and use that money to buy landed properties in your new country. foreigers can see this and take full advantage because they are street smart :smile:
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Singapore is a good place.

I have Canadian doctors who want to migrate to Singapore.

Low taxes. High pay. Cheap housing. (Seriously that's what they said).

My sister also went back to Singapore. Canada taxes too high for her. And pay here is low. Very bad for self esteem.

I suggest Singaporeans be thankful for what they have. It is a wonderful country built up by the pioneers of Singapore.
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
Singapore is a good place.

I have Canadian doctors who want to migrate to Singapore.

Low taxes. High pay. Cheap housing. (Seriously that's what they said).

My sister also went back to Singapore. Canada taxes too high for her. And pay here is low. Very bad for self esteem.

I suggest Singaporeans be thankful for what they have. It is a wonderful country built up by the pioneers of Singapore.

bro singapore is good if u are very rich or muti millionair.
for the rich they dosent get effected by the taxes in sg because they too rich unlike the low income and middle income these group can feel the pinch.
i think your sister is lonely and also the weather also plays a part and maybe she miss her friends and relatives back in sg.
tax in canada is high and i also believe there many benefits too like free heakthcare and free education.
well if she made up her mind there nothing u can do bro.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
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bro singapore is good if u are very rich or muti millionair.
for the rich they dosent get effected by the taxes in sg because they too rich unlike the low income and middle income these group can feel the pinch.
i think your sister is lonely and also the weather also plays a part and maybe she miss her friends and relatives back in sg.
tax in canada is high and i also believe there many benefits too like free heakthcare and free education.
well if she made up her mind there nothing u can do bro.
She said what for free healthcare? She not sick. She didnt even bother to apply for her healthcare card until like almost 8 month after she arrived. Said no point.

Lonely? I dont think so. She wake up 4pm and sleep 4am. Basically kept to Singapore time for almost 1.5 years while she was here.

She just loves Singapore very much.

Migrating is not for everyone lah. Singapore is well love by many Singaporeans.

Those of you who dislike SG are minority.
 

amransan

Alfrescian
Loyal
She said what for free healthcare? She not sick. She didnt even bother to apply for her healthcare card until like almost 8 month after she arrived. Said no point.

Lonely? I dont think so. She wake up 4pm and sleep 4am. Basically kept to Singapore time for almost 1.5 years while she was here.

She just loves Singapore very much.

Migrating is not for everyone lah. Singapore is well love by many Singaporeans.

Those of you who dislike SG are minority.
sg is perfect place for her then bro :smile:
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Singapore is a good place.

I have Canadian doctors who want to migrate to Singapore.

Low taxes. High pay. Cheap housing. (Seriously that's what they said).

My sister also went back to Singapore. Canada taxes too high for her. And pay here is low. Very bad for self esteem.

I suggest Singaporeans be thankful for what they have. It is a wonderful country built up by the pioneers of Singapore.
u are such a talk cock bullshitter. if singapore is such a wonderful cuntry, why aren't u living there?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Singapore is a good place.

I have Canadian doctors who want to migrate to Singapore.

Low taxes. High pay. Cheap housing. (Seriously that's what they said).

My sister also went back to Singapore. Canada taxes too high for her. And pay here is low. Very bad for self esteem.

I suggest Singaporeans be thankful for what they have. It is a wonderful country built up by the pioneers of Singapore.
Your sister must be a moron. Those genes run in the family? Its not about taxes and pay. Its about purchasing power. Who cares if pay is low when u can still buy a cheaper freehold condo, or a cheap car, etc. U couldn't do those things even on a good salary in singapore. if she got a self esteem problem, I suggest she sees a doctor or counselor which I understand is FREE in canada thanks to the higher taxes paid there.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
She said what for free healthcare? She not sick. She didnt even bother to apply for her healthcare card until like almost 8 month after she arrived. Said no point.

Lonely? I dont think so. She wake up 4pm and sleep 4am. Basically kept to Singapore time for almost 1.5 years while she was here.

She just loves Singapore very much.

Migrating is not for everyone lah. Singapore is well love by many Singaporeans.

Those of you who dislike SG are minority.
U should have introduced your sister to the joys of AMDK. after all that is the speciality of SPGs. After a good canadian AMDK fucking, she will be very happy to adapt herself to canada.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
the many years loan with high interest is the one killing all of us owning a hdb.
the ONLY way to beat this system is buy a hdb flat after 6 years later migrate to a better countries take out our hard earn cpf and use that money to buy landed properties in your new country. foreigers can see this and take full advantage because they are street smart :smile:
there is a 1000 ways to beat the system. Only one way? low IQ people think there is only one way.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Singapore is a good place.

I have Canadian doctors who want to migrate to Singapore.

Low taxes. High pay. Cheap housing. (Seriously that's what they said).

My sister also went back to Singapore. Canada taxes too high for her. And pay here is low. Very bad for self esteem.

I suggest Singaporeans be thankful for what they have. It is a wonderful country built up by the pioneers of Singapore.
that’s why you’re depressed. your sis gives up on canada and returns to sg, wasting your generosity, hospitality, and persuasion to convince her of a better life for her and her family.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
u are such a talk cock bullshitter. if singapore is such a wonderful cuntry, why aren't u living there?

I made a resolution to be positive about SG. As per @Rogue Trader advice.

SG wonderful doesnt mean everywhere else is crap. Many wonderful places to live .

SG is good lah. That's why you still live there. Is it wrong to speak well of SG?
 
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nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Your sister must be a moron. Those genes run in the family? Its not about taxes and pay. Its about purchasing power. Who cares if pay is low when u can still buy a cheaper freehold condo, or a cheap car, etc. U couldn't do those things even on a good salary in singapore. if she got a self esteem problem, I suggest she sees a doctor or counselor which I understand is FREE in canada thanks to the higher taxes paid there.

Their lifestyle very high class. Only drink bottled water. Special drinks. Pepsi mango. Maple syrup Coca Cola. VOSS mineral water from Norway. San Pellegrino peach black tea. Milkis. Pepsi mango. Pepsi vanilla. Peach flavor Perrier.

I guess too expensive in Canada but much cheaper in SG.
 
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