Goh Meng Seng's Tampines Journey - Watch this Space

[elephanto]

Though not a political party, the TOC is more competent in reflecting people's needs on the ground.

TOC better read than TR, but more reflecting the needs of bleeding heart neo-liberals there IMHO

Similarly the use of NCMP is a good alternative to demonstrate to the people that 9 NCMPs can give voice to their needs.

Call it 'probation' before being offered a 5-year contract.

My exact sentiments as well - good analogy.

It is an ongoing dichotomy.

Loh & Chiam will tell you they are only 2 out of 81 - so what do you realistically expect from them ?

But I think there should be more proactive & combative in Parliament.

LTK always gives me the impression he has some Chinese-Ed mental complex & is averse to be engage more in House Debates.

Chiam - honestly, beyond being the likeable Brutus Thornapple, never has the 'animal spirits' to actively stand up to PAP.

Had these 2 been more 'high profile' & active in Parliament, they would have raise the morale of the Opposition & gave more hope & heart to Opp voters.

 

[kingrant]

To me, some of the PAP's Ministers are just so so. Ordinaire. Nothing to pay millions for. Cases in pt: Mattar, yaacob, Lee boon yang, wong kan seng, lim swee suay, even lim boon heng, yeo cheow tong, mah... They got in on the brute-force of PAP's brand name, and lesser mortals got in on the coat-tails of Ministers in GRCs. Even so-called Ministers - their performance can be faked; their cockups covered up until the shit hits the fan, and then they are dumped.

What competency you talking abt? The Opp do not have less competency. The voters just didnt give enough of them a chance to prove themselves.

Concluding, it is more helpful to think of the public's reticence to vote for the oppositions as the oppositions inability to demonstrate sufficient competency. Then the question what consitutes 'sufficient competency' will arise.

 

[kingrant]

Heard of the quote:

Think global, act local?

Vote yr MP on national issues.

All politics is local

Whilst national issues itself is also a form of local issues, municipal issues are really the most basic local issues.

No way that we only emphasize only on national issues and ignore the local issues in the respective ward.

hence I believe the bottom up approach i.e campaigning at grassroots level are more effective than top-down one.

Due to the limited resources, it still boils down to how well we can make use of them.

 

[Sideswipe]

For the longest time, GMS has been asking MBT to do a policy debate so that Singaporeans can understand the issues. If MBT is so much more competent than GMS, why not agree to the debate with GMS? Demolish GMS once and for all in a swift decisive blow and then ride triumphantly in to take Tampines GRC.

If I am MBT, I will not do a policy debate with GMS now or during GE, doing so will only give NSP free publicity.

MBT wouldn't win much if he did well during the debate. He would only successfully defend his policies. PAP agreeing to a policy debate mean giving NSP a stage to perform, free bullets to shoot them, be ready for the unexpected - not a wise choice.

 

[kingrant]

How do you know they havent tried?

How much airtime do you think the brothelkeepers will give them? Suggest you read Hansard more.

Had these 2 been more 'high profile' & active in Parliament, they would have raise the morale of the Opposition & gave more hope & heart to Opp voters.

 

[aurvandil]

If I am MBT, I will not do a policy debate with GMS now or during GE, doing so will only give NSP free publicity.

MBT wouldn't win much if he did well during the debate. He would only successfully defend his policies. PAP agreeing to a policy debate mean giving NSP a stage to perform, free bullets to shoot them, be ready for the unexpected - not a wise choice.

If GMS is a bumbling, incompetent fool, then MBT has nothing to lose. By ignoring GMS, MBT gives the impression that he either has something to hide or is afraid of GMS.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

If I am MBT, I will not do a policy debate with GMS now or during GE, doing so will only give NSP free publicity.

MBT wouldn't win much if he did well during the debate. He would only successfully defend his policies. PAP agreeing to a policy debate mean giving NSP a stage to perform, free bullets to shoot them, be ready for the unexpected - not a wise choice.

The PAP is made up of a megalomaniac dictator. 95% of the ministers and PAP members are incompetent fools who cannot survive in the real world and chose to join the PAP to gain economic footing.

You have to make the difference between cronies who are almost universally non party members and real PAP members who form the party.

PAP members are fly-by-night fair weathered friends who are largely failures without the PAP. Just look at the long list of former PAP MPs. After close to 50 years of rule, NOT ONE of them has left office and gone on to do anything of substance outside of the PAP office.

PAP ministers are supposedly the best in the land but soon ater leaving the party or office, they become their normal, largely useless selves who cannot even earn a decent wage relative to their huge salaries while in office.

Oooops, perhaps there is Dr Goh Keng Swee who did quite well in China. But even he doesn't want to have anything to do with the PAPies for the last couple of decades.

Don't expect anything from the PAPies. TYheir role has been to stay in power at the cost of the country being run to its ruin.

Your best bet is to vote them out and to influence otheres to vote them out.

 

[elephanto]

How do you know they havent tried?

How much airtime do you think the brothelkeepers will give them? Suggest you read Hansard more.

I honestly don't know. But my impression I dare say is the impression of the majority of Singaporeans.

And harrow, bro, how many actually know what is Hansard, much less read it !

If what you said is true, then this type of misconception must be corrected as much as possible.

Also, your 'but-not-in-my-backyard' reason is a selfish trait of human nature that can be overcome only when some overriding backlash happens as in Potong Pasir & Hougang when their initial breakthrough happened.

That's why close ground scrutiny, completion of lift upgrading & now, cooling-off day implemented to augment human nature & prevent local unhappiness to boil over.

 

[3_M]

Heard of the quote:

Think global, act local?

Vote yr MP on national issues.

I wish everyone thinks like we do. But the fact is we are just a small minority.

 

[sampierre]

[QUOTE=elephanto;412986]Sampierre, I disagree.
I do not think voters bother if opp chaps can run town councils. You are using PAP's logic here.
reply : Dear elephanto, I'm very surprised that an experienced samster like you makes such a reckless statement! As what our friend 3M said earlier," all politics are local". If voters can't be bothered about the ability of the candidate in running a town council or bonding with residents thru grassroots activities, maybe you can enlighten me as to why Ling How Dong & Cheo Chai Chen lost their seats in the 1997 GE ???? And why did Chiam & Low TK managed to retained their seats???? Nothing to do with town council and grassroots activities??? come on, you must be joking!

Charisma & eloquence are prized assets. And when combined with authentic sincerity, chances of winning very high if the right electioneering strategies & tactics are used.
reply : True, I don't deny it. But if an Opposition candidate has neither charisma nor gift of the gab, the next best thing is to work hard on the ground level.

You keep stressing 'do a lot of work' yet castigate the work that Opp leaders as insignificant.
reply : are you referring to the fact that candidates like GMS going to MRT stations and coffeeshops to distribute party papers? No, I didn't say their work is insigificant. I said they NEED to do much more than just that if they sincerely hope to win!

Wrong conclusion. Chiam started in '76 in Cairnhill, until '84 that's 8 years of national visibility, only from '80 to '84 (4 years), does he have SDP, before that it was just him, his wife & his Volkswagen Beetle. Also, Howe Yoong Chong, PAP candidate for P.Pasir was badly hit by his 'defer CPF withdrawal to after 55'....
So many factors & you simply conclude the way it suits your argument...

reply : hullo, I know Chiam kicked off his political career in Cairnhill, but I'm just referring to the fact that since 1979 by-elections, Chiam was actively wooing Potong Pasir residents before the 1984GE. BTW, the person he defeated was Maboro Tan, not Howe (despite his CPF recommendations, Howe still beat Chiam in 1980 GE).

Bizarre & fixated indeed. But the righteous & quarrelsome tone not very conducive to peaceful discussion either.

sorry, I'm just being passionate about my beliefs. I'm merely warning fellow samsters NOT to be MISLED by the NCMP scheme which is devised by the PAP suckers to keep themselves in power forever.

Thank you.

I too rest my case.[/QUOTE]

 

[elephanto]

Sampierre, honestly i respect the validity of your points.
What is irksome is just your abrasive tone & the caps font - still you have made your point abundantly clear.

Take care....

 

[elephanto]

MBT feeling the heat ....

Weekend Today - for the first time reproduce in its entirety spread over more than 4 FULL pages (without adverts some more), Mah Bow Tan's speech in Parliament on the latest tweeking of HDB rules & policies.

Why such dedicated defence of MBT ?

Pretty rare to devote such precious newsprint real estate to bolster Mah's HDB polemics .....

methinks he is indeed under pressure

 

[scroobal]

Re: MBT feeling the heat ....

Yes, he is under pressure and how the press is helping him out. Its a bit too late. The agony of buying a house for young Singaporeans is not something that can be erased away.

Its even more sad to see foreigners moving in and making home as though life was so easy.

Weekend Today - for the first time reproduce in its entirety spread over more than 4 FULL pages (without adverts some more), Mah Bow Tan's speech in Parliament on the latest tweeking of HDB rules & policies.

Why such dedicated defence of MBT ?

Pretty rare to devote such precious newsprint real estate to bolster Mah's HDB polemics .....

methinks he is indeed under pressure

 

[IR123]

Re: MBT feeling the heat ....

Yes, he is under pressure and how the press is helping him out. Its a bit too late. The agony of buying a house for young Singaporeans is not something that can be erased away.

Its even more sad to see foreigners moving in and making home as though life was so easy.

In addition, Ng's speech on no NS for foreign singaporeans ("No strong reason"). Ng called them 'new citizens'.

It was only a while ago that there were concerns that there will not be enough NSmen due to the aging population. All of a sudden, national security objectives are met with current crop of NSmen.

The result is the local Singaporeans defend the well-being of foreign Singaporeans.

Having more operationally ready Singaporeans is a social goal?

Yes, it is sad to see foreigners moving in and making home in Singapore the easy way - red carpet, support by the PAP Government, no obligations to be singaporean other than carry the NRIC.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am glad that with this little contest and a tweak to the minister-specific strategy, it has created a movement that make MBT work so hard.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[IR123]

I am glad that with this little contest and a tweak to the minister-specific strategy, it has created a movement that make MBT work so hard.

Goh Meng Seng

Keep up the good work. May there be more oppositions like you.

 

[Perspective]

TOC better read than TR, but more reflecting the needs of bleeding heart neo-liberals there IMHO



My exact sentiments as well - good analogy.

It is an ongoing dichotomy.

Loh & Chiam will tell you they are only 2 out of 81 - so what do you realistically expect from them ?

But I think there should be more proactive & combative in Parliament.

LTK always gives me the impression he has some Chinese-Ed mental complex & is averse to be engage more in House Debates.

Chiam - honestly, beyond being the likeable Brutus Thornapple, never has the 'animal spirits' to actively stand up to PAP.

Had these 2 been more 'high profile' & active in Parliament, they would have raise the morale of the Opposition & gave more hope & heart to Opp voters.

It's like comparing apples to oranges. TOC and TR does just writing. They do not need to organise activities or show up on the ground to win votes.

And if you have dealt with them, you realise they don't adopt these positions. They would say that the views are the views of the writers and not theirs, and that they are just a blog/bloggers. Can a political party do the same?

 

[elephanto]

It's like comparing apples to oranges. TOC and TR does just writing. They do not need to organise activities or show up on the ground to win votes.

And if you have dealt with them, you realise they don't adopt these positions. They would say that the views are the views of the writers and not theirs, and that they are just a blog/bloggers. Can a political party do the same?

wow, are u digging up my past posts :p, even i must go back to remember in what context....

then i realise you misunderstood what I am referring to when i commented 'good analogy'. I was referring to IR123's 'NCMP as prelude to elected MP' as an analogy to 'probation before 5-yr contract'. AND not comparing Opp members to talkshops TOC & TR.

No wonder it took me a while to understand what you driving at - which I agree fully. Putting up opinion pieces and having to stand up for them is a world of difference.

 

[Perspective]

wow, are u digging up my past posts :p, even i must go back to remember in what context....

then i realise you misunderstood what I am referring to when i commented 'good analogy'. I was referring to IR123's 'NCMP as prelude to elected MP' as an analogy to 'probation before 5-yr contract'. AND not comparing Opp members to talkshops TOC & TR.

No wonder it took me a while to understand what you driving at - which I agree fully. Putting up opinion pieces and having to stand up for them is a world of difference.

Sorry, I don't have a habit of digging past posts. The last post was 5 hours before mine and at the top, and I often reply to sporadic things I see rather than follow through a thread.

Agree with you.

 

[IR123]

...not comparing Opp members to talkshops TOC & TR.

No, I am not comparing Opp members to TOC which was why I said, 'Though not a political party....'

I was saying that Oppositions can do more to reflect the needs of people on the ground.

Some feel that the oppositions are doing enough or all they can. My point then is that the votes they get reflect the voters' perceptions of them. Unless you want to blame the voters too and tar all with the same brush. Some opposition diehards do.