Goh Meng Seng attacks Yaw Shin Leong on his blog

[denzuko1]

Bill Clinton caused Al Gore and the Democrats to lose the 2000 election, despite presiding over a booming economy and a successful foreign policy. His affair also played a role in her wife defeat during the Democratic Primary in 2008.

As for Chua Soi Lek, WP should learn the lesson of MCA. MCA grassroot supported Chua and allowed him to make a comeback. Look at MCA right now, its image continues to be tarnished by Chua and losing Chinese support. While BN continues to consolidate support among the Malays and Indians, their support among the Chinese is at one of its lowest, no doubt due to MCA's and Chua's tarnished image.

Bill Clinton did not cause Al Gore's defeat in 2000 election or his wife's election, in fact Clinton played little part in the both campaigns. If his scandal played a big part, it would be his own re-election that is affected. In truth, he was re-elected even with the scandals shows a lot on how it affects the voters.

as for Chua Soi Lek and MCA, it has very little to do his scandal but a lot more of their alliance with UMNO leading to them losing all the Chinese votes.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I don't take into consideration whether PAP people are "God Fearing" or not. That's not the point. What goes round, comes around. The point is that any opposition wannabe must understand that to survive in such adverse environment with rules slanted against you, you will have to be whiter than white and "hopelessly clean". If not, you are game to your opponents, PAP.

Goh Meng Seng

Goh Meng Seng,

Just drop that veil of pragmatism you are wearing an admit you have an agenda. It is very obvious. Years ago, you would have defended YSL to the hilt and gone on a rampage attacking everyone who said bad things about YSL. Now your tune has changed.

This tells me you have no ideology and your behaviour is dictated not by some moral code but by personal emotion and friendship considerations.

Tell me, why should anyone pay anymore attention to what you say?

 

[aurvandil]

I have only offered the methods which was used by other politicians in the world in managing such scandal. Scandal is scandal, no matter where it happens and when it hits. It must be managed very carefully and in this internet era, keeping mum is no longer a good option.

Even if it is true, the wife has come out to defend him. The other woman has been keeping quiet. Keeping mum from hereon would be a good option. Unless TRE surfaces some Malaysian style bedroom pictures, I expect this to die off quite quickly.

If you recall the Jack Neo scandal, there were initially 13 women who were said to be involved with PBM Jack. At the end of the day, Singapore now only thinks that he strayed with Wendy Neo. For Foyce, people remember her as an attention whore rather than someone Jack Neo slept with.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Then ask yourself why are you paying so much attention to what I write here? Just ignore lor!

I think it is people like you who do not really have ideology nor principles to start with. I shall re-post what I have written on my FB here.

I understand the general sentiments of opposition supporters at large that we should protect our opposition MPs at all cost. But the question is, is this going to do opposition parties any good in the long run?

I have written an article long long time ago, even before I joined opposition politics about the ills of GRC. One of the main reason I am against the GRC system is that it provides an overly protective environment for PAP MPs to get into parliament. It may work in the short term in sustaining PAP's monopoly of power but in the long run, it will condition PAP's slate of candidates to be weaklings who cannot hold their own ground in parliamentary debate or otherwise.

This is becoming so true after more than two decades of the GRC system, we are witnessing the drop in the standards of PAP MPs.

Similarly for opposition parties' MPs. I would rather they learn the rope fast and realize that they do not have the luxuries like what the PAP potential candidates enjoy. They are expected to fight like a fighter, not just starting on their training path. If they are not meeting the expectation and standards, we as opposition supporters, should take up the responsibility of providing the spurs in their hides to urge them and train them better. PAP isn't going to help them in any ways.

To get into parliament as opposition members is already very difficult. We cannot just become apologists and become too lenient in accommodating mistakes and weaknesses in them. We would commit the very same mistake PAP has done in the GRC system in providing the overly protective environment else our opposition movement will suffer even bigger setbacks after a small win in 2011.

To protect the overall opposition growth in this situation, is not to condone substandard performance from the present slate of opposition MPs. We should maintain our demand of a reasonable standard of performance. Even more so on character wise. We should not condone irresponsible adultery within the ranks of opposition candidates. We will be sending a very wrong signal to future potential candidates and players in opposition field that it is alright to flirt around because it is an acceptable behavior in opposition.

Opposition candidates could only win if and only if they could convince the middle ground voters to support them. We cannot just depend on the die hard anti-PAP supporters alone which constitutes only about 25% to 30% as demonstrated by the PE2011. It is important to attune our perspective and standards which are demanded by this group of voters.

Goh Meng Seng,

Just drop that veil of pragmatism you are wearing an admit you have an agenda. It is very obvious. Years ago, you would have defended YSL to the hilt and gone on a rampage attacking everyone who said bad things about YSL. Now your tune has changed.

This tells me you have no ideology and your behaviour is dictated not by some moral code but by personal emotion and friendship considerations.

Tell me, why should anyone pay anymore attention to what you say?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Aurvandil, you are right in the sense that even if this is true, what YSL needs would be his wife forgiveness on his side. However, this case is a bit more complicated. If it is true, it involves another two parties, the woman and her husband. If it is true that there is pregnancy, it would even be more complicated.

To get spouse's forgiveness is stated in my earlier blog post on how Henry Tang managed it.

It may die off for the time being but knowing PAP, it will be raked up again when the time is ripe. Especially so when there is only deafening silence without a proper closure on the episode.

Do you know why PAP withdraw Steve Tan at the very last minute? There are quite a lot of things we could do if Steve Tan is not dropped.

Goh Meng Seng

Even if it is true, the wife has come out to defend him. The other woman has been keeping quiet. Keeping mum from hereon would be a good option. Unless TRE surfaces some Malaysian style bedroom pictures, I expect this to die off quite quickly.

If you recall the Jack Neo scandal, there were initially 13 women who were said to be involved with PBM Jack. At the end of the day, Singapore now only thinks that he strayed with Wendy Neo. For Foyce, people remember her as an attention whore rather than someone Jack Neo slept with.

 

[skponggol]

Bill Clinton did not cause Al Gore's defeat in 2000 election or his wife's election, in fact Clinton played little part in the both campaigns. If his scandal played a big part, it would be his own re-election that is affected. In truth, he was re-elected even with the scandals shows a lot on how it affects the voters.

as for Chua Soi Lek and MCA, it has very little to do his scandal but a lot more of their alliance with UMNO leading to them losing all the Chinese votes.

Gore blamed Clinton for his defeat in election
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lamed-Clinton-for-his-defeat-in-election.html

- Mr Gore "forcefully" blamed the former president for his loss, saying that the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal and the low esteem in which voters held Mr Clinton had proved serious obstacles to his campaign.

Michelle Obama takes a shot at Hillary Clinton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1qZMBE9Gc

Michelle Obama on Hillary Clinton during the 2008 Democratic Primary:

- "One of the important aspect in this race is role-modelling, what a good family should look like. And my view is that if you can't run your own house, you certainly can't run the White House. Can't do it."

Btw, Bill Clinton was re-electecd in 1996, before the Lewinsky scandal.

As for Chua Soi Lek, he bravely stepped up, faced the reporters, apologised, admitted his faults AND RESIGNED FROM THE CABINET (HEALTH MINISTER), PARTY POST (VICE-PRESIDENT) AND MP FOR BATU BAHAT......That's why he saved his supporters and party power base from totally wiped out by his opponents so that he can make a swift comeback among the partyt grassroot... But at the expense of party image. The Chinese community perception of MCA and their members that allow a confessed womaniser to become their president must have taken a big tolls as BN support among the Chinese continue to plunge all the things they had done to win back their votes.

 

[skponggol]

Even if it is true, the wife has come out to defend him. The other woman has been keeping quiet. Keeping mum from hereon would be a good option. Unless TRE surfaces some Malaysian style bedroom pictures, I expect this to die off quite quickly.

If you recall the Jack Neo scandal, there were initially 13 women who were said to be involved with PBM Jack. At the end of the day, Singapore now only thinks that he strayed with Wendy Neo. For Foyce, people remember her as an attention whore rather than someone Jack Neo slept with.

What if the allegations and rumours are false and inaccurate ???

The Workers' Party would suffer an even bigger damage to its reputation and image among its rank-and-files if the rumours were ultimately to be proven false....

If the rumours are false, why are the involved parties and families keeping quiet ??? They must be going thru hell with all the smears hurled at them. Is it fair to the involved parties and their families for going thru such ordeals if the rumours are false and inaccurare.

Why can't the party and the involved members stand up, clarify and speak up for their loved ones if the rumours are false ? Why are they allowing their family to be pinpoint and smear by the public ? And whose fault is that ? There seems to be a party gag order that prevent anyone from speaking up, even for their loved one.

What kind of message are they sending down to the members ? Their private lives will not only be unprotected but must also be surrendered to the party. Everytime they want to stand up and speak up for themselves and family, they have to seek party approval and permission.

Who dare to join and remain at the party ? Their spouses/parents/children would be uncomfortable for their loved ones being associated with such organisation (cult) as they would put aside their family interest in the name of party unity and image.

" 一切顺从党的指示, 一切遵照党的吩咐, 一切听命党的号令......党大于一切...."

There would be no life outside the Party.

For the Party Big Brothers : "党外无党, 帝王思想".
For the Party members : "党外无党, 奴才思想".

How can they be 魏徵 when everything has to be vetted and approved by the Party, where everyone has to be 唯唯诺诺 to the Party Big Brothers.

If the rumours are ultimatelyt false, this whole thing would be comical, tragic and absurd.

 

[aurvandil]

What if the allegations and rumours are false and inaccurate ???

Rumours are like fire. They need to be fed to be kept alive. If there are no further developments, they will die a natural death. This rumour can therefore only be sustained if there is a continuous stream of new material/evidence surfacing to confirm or refute the allegations.

 

[myfoot123]

Dear Scroobal,

Anybody who goes into opposition politics should know that the MSM aka SPH isn't exactly your friendly neighbor. That's granted. What they may not do to PAP does not mean they will not do to us. We should not argue like a little boy in shouting "Not Fair One" on the MSM. We already know their "patterns" in advanced and this should not be a consideration in managing this crisis.

I hate to say this, everybody could choose to keep mum if the MSM didn't report anything, even though some social media has started to write about it as rumor or otherwise. But once it hit on the streets of MSM, situation will be very different. Whether we like it or not, that's when the crisis starts and it needs to be managed. We cannot just ignore and pretend nothing happens. Unless he is no longer your friend?

I have only offered the methods which was used by other politicians in the world in managing such scandal. Scandal is scandal, no matter where it happens and when it hits. It must be managed very carefully and in this internet era, keeping mum is no longer a good option.

I don't take into consideration whether PAP people are "God Fearing" or not. That's not the point. What goes round, comes around. The point is that any opposition wannabe must understand that to survive in such adverse environment with rules slanted against you, you will have to be whiter than white and "hopelessly clean". If not, you are game to your opponents, PAP.

Goh Meng Seng

But you can quietly write him an email (in privacy) since he was once your ex-party colleague. Now you open it up so glaringly in his blog. Not very nice gua? Even if I did something wrong, I would expect my friend to discuss matter with me in private and not use public media to openly criticise me.

 

[Forvendet]

What if the allegations and rumours are false and inaccurate ???

As far as things go and look to me, it's impossible that it's false or inaccurate. SPH may be biased, yes. It can choose what to report, but all it has chosen are on solid grounds. Let me ask you, let's reflect, which SPH report and allegation had been shot down in court? The answer is zero. Was the court biased? No. SPH has the evidence.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

But you can quietly write him an email (in privacy) since he was once your ex-party colleague. Now you open it up so glaringly in his blog. Not very nice gua? Even if I did something wrong, I would expect my friend to discuss matter with me in private and not use public media to openly criticise me.

Put it this way, I didn't even attack him! Just sharing information to all people about how such crisis is being handled.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[myfoot123]

As far as things go and look to me, it's impossible that it's false or inaccurate. but all it has chosen are on solid grounds. Let me ask you, let's reflect, which SPH report and allegation had been shot down in court? The answer is zero. SPH has the evidence.

Chua Mui Hoong calling Dr Chee psycopath, any evidence? SPH and kangaroo court report to the same boss, how to sue each other?

 

[Forvendet]

Chua Mui Hoong calling Dr Chee psycopath, any evidence? SPH and kangaroo court report to the same boss, how to sue each other?

Did Dr. Chee dare to sue for that? If not, why not?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I agree with you that it is really an irony that WP has talked big about being the courageous 魏徵 in parliament but in the end, when a small little scandalous crisis hit them, they suddenly lost all the courage to face it and speak up bravely about.

There are other netters in other forums questioning WP's handling of this crisis. Are they trying to hide something from the public by keeping mum? Aren't they behaving like PAP as well and it is really a big irony while on one hand, they talked big about Transparency and Accountability while at this instance, it is all opaqueness. I hate to say this but I have to agree with them.

WP and Yaw has missed the golden window of opportunity to step forward and clarify, putting things right. Now the damage will be blown out of proportion while the fire on the net starts to burn.

Goh Meng Seng

" 一切顺从党的指示, 一切遵照党的吩咐, 一切听命党的号令......党大于一切...."

There would be no life outside the Party.

For the Party Big Brothers : "党外无党, 帝王思想".
For the Party members : "党外无党, 奴才思想".

How can they be 魏徵 when everything has to be vetted and approved by the Party, where everyone has to be 唯唯诺诺 to the Party Big Brothers.

If the rumours are ultimatelyt false, this whole thing would be comical, tragic and absurd.

 

[Forvendet]

I'm very disappointed with WP by this. If no, just say no. If yes, just say yes and explain why. Marital and relationship problems can happen to anybody. YSL can even divorce his wife and get a new marriage, that's no political problem if carried through openly and smoorhly. But saying no comment, that's unacceptable politically.

 

[myfoot123]

I agree with you that it is really an irony that WP has talked big about being the courageous 魏徵 in parliament but in the end, when a small little scandalous crisis hit them, they suddenly lost all the courage to face it and speak up bravely about.
Goh Meng Seng

Did you watch John Woo, Red Cliff? When you have very limited resources, you need to think of the bigger picture. Zhou Yu forgave his soldier for stealing the farmer's cattle when the enemy is near. You don't punish or embarass your last man for his little private err when the country is in danger of enemy attack.:( Of course I am not encouraging people to steal. I believed as a leader, one should know how much card he has to talk about honourable. Did 60% voters believe in the meaning of honourable? If so, why did they still vote for PAP with all the bad examples we can think of and for heaven sake, PAP is not clean.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I really think otherwise. It is precisely the need to save the whole army, you will have to cut off the bad generals who have done wrong. Military discipline could only be maintained when impartiality is made the key concept.

Beside, now it is not GE time, not a matter of life and death. Most important of all, is to maintain confidence and morale among your supporters, rank and file. I believe within WP, there are already murmurs of disagreement on how the matter been handled. If this is allowed to carry on, the party morale may fall and eventually break the last straw on the party.

Goh Meng Seng

Did you watch John Woo, Red Cliff? When you have very limited resources, you need to think of the bigger picture. Zhou Yu forgave his soldier for stealing the farmer's cattle when the enemy is near. You don't punish or embarass your last man for his little err when the country is in danger of enemy attack.:( Of course I am not encouraging people to steal. I believed as a leader, one should know how much card he has to talk about honourable. Did 60% voters believe in the meaning of honourable? If so, why did they still vote for PAP with all the bad examples we can think of.

 

[ssrrvv11]

I really think otherwise. It is precisely the need to save the whole army, you will have to cut off the bad generals who have done wrong.

gms : i am a 'bad general'. that is why i kena cut off from WP and NSP. now i have self-appoint myself as a pap-doggie.

 

[skponggol]

Did you watch John Woo, Red Cliff? When you have very limited resources, you need to think of the bigger picture. Zhou Yu forgave his soldier for stealing the farmer's cattle when the enemy is near. You don't punish or embarass your last man for his little private err when the country is in danger of enemy attack.:( Of course I am not encouraging people to steal. I believed as a leader, one should know how much card he has to talk about honourable. Did 60% voters believe in the meaning of honourable? If so, why did they still vote for PAP with all the bad examples we can think of and for heaven sake, PAP is not clean.

Imagine if Zhou Yu were to forgive his top generals for stealing the wives of their soldiers....

Zhou Yu to his soldiers : " I don't want to comment on rumours !"

History will be re-written.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I will tell you most of the rumors about WP's internal strife come directly from WP itself. I hardly bother about "spreading" it because it is apparent that some insects were trying to create havoc within. For what reasons? The reasons are obvious.

Goh Meng Seng

Goh Meng Seng has an agenda to attack WP because he is jealous that they won a GRC after he left.

Yaw Shin Leong used to be his good buddy. Something must have snapped along the line. I remember when YSL announced to the world he voted PAP, Goh meng seng was defending him left right and centre. That was when their relationship was still good.

GMS offline conduct is even worse. He has been going around telling people WP has internal problems and full of dissent that is about to rip it to shreds. Just ask anyone who has personally spoken to GMS over the past several months. This guy has an obvious agenda and GoldenDragon was sharp to spot it way back even before GE 2011.