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God My Healer.

different does not mean you are right and im wrong ;)

ah drifter , nowhere in my thread did i ever say that. This is just sharing and discussion. Not debate or judgement.

Here on this thread it is about what you or others or I believe and give our views , not who is right or wrong sir. :)
 
for your case ..its sad to say that you are not intelligent then animals ..you dont use your brain to think logically . im sorry if my words hurts ..im a straight forward person .

hey drifter. Please i do not take offence. I appreciate your honesty. I only ask that you keep expressing yourself like this , truthfully from the heart .

No one should have a problem with that.

Cheers.
 
yes , man and animals are different ....man question things and animals dont ...since we are human we must question everything we dont understand including blind faith ;)

Other animals do not waste their time and energy questioning whether there is a god. They just get on with doing things which are useful to them.
 
"Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!"

- The Satanic Bible.

Interestingly, even this "Satan" agrees that the spiritual exists. The real Satan would really know.
 
Why God killed so many people as seen in the bible

On this point, God was preparing for the coming of the Messiah and the world became too corrupted for this to occur. Thereafter, laws and commandments were instituted to guide people and avoid the world of the pre-Noah days.
 
religions had been a guide to the early human civilization, for better or for worse, it is time for science to take the next step.

Christianity is not like science. If what is in it is true, it can never lose its relevance.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5RnVfXFd5MU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The annual cleaning of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem descended into a battle between the rival Christian denominations that share it.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-fight-Christmas-cleaning.html#ixzz1hz5wMcCN

rivals buay song against each other.:D

yes thats really bad behaviour and bad testimony. But in the end that is what happens when you look at men , they do all these and so they need forgiveness.
 
Other animals do not waste their time and energy questioning whether there is a god. They just get on with doing things which are useful to them.

HI philistine, Men are of higher order and they should do both. Seek God and do good useful things too. The world would be better.
 
Interestingly, even this "Satan" agrees that the spiritual exists. The real Satan would really know.

agreed brother Perspective. Satan and his agents acknowledge God and Jesus many times in the Bible. Satan even knows but twists Scripture as evidenced in the Gospel of Matthew where he tempted Jesus in the desert.
 
yes science indeed have reach another level including creating clones , stem cell , fighting cancer , found that the earth is round ...ect . religion did not ...religion has made man think backward ....instead of providing answer and solution ...religion just give out fake hope and unanswered prayer when things goes wrong .

That is (partly) false premise and there is no such thing as Christian vs Science are mutually exclusive. Many scientists are Christians and of course many are not. The former contributes to advancement and it is in one person's words "discovering the creation of God". The latter also for the pure sake of humanity.

The difference is, when a robber robs a bank, the Christian would acknowledge that thieves exist in this world and call the police, the scientist would wonder why thieves exist in this world and go to the library to study criminal psychology. In this case, does the scientist sound more intelligent?
 
yes , man and animals are different ....man question things and animals dont ...since we are human we must question everything we dont understand including blind faith ;)

Thanks for agreeing again - the last time that lightning created from nothing is illogical. This time that man is different. Do you know, only the bible bothers to explain both, even if people do not believe it.
 
Other animals do not waste their time and energy questioning whether there is a god. They just get on with doing things which are useful to them.

Interestingly, animals that did not have "religion" distractions did not go as far as man. They have no internet, no clothes, no language, no furniture, no machines despite doing things only useful to them.
 
yes thats really bad behaviour and bad testimony. But in the end that is what happens when you look at men , they do all these and so they need forgiveness.
resort to violence? shouldnt the followers be magnanimous?
need forgiveness? then they shd not fight at the first plc?
so the teaching is violence the solution and ask forgiveness aftermath?
 
resort to violence? shouldnt the followers be magnanimous?
need forgiveness? then they shd not fight at the first plc?
so the teaching is violence the solution and ask forgiveness aftermath?

Hi NF, they shouldnt do violence and should be magnanimous. I wholeheartedly agree.

But please remember that these are human beings who are fallible. People do not have to be perfect to come to God but it is the other way round. They come to God to be made better. During the process of the journey they sure to fail and fall in their behaviour. I think there is no miracle jump to become perfect all of a sudden. So you will surely see this type of behaviour wherever you go whether christian, Buddhist, Hindu , Muslim , non believer in God or anybody.
The teaching is not violent unless you have deviant teachers .
So in the end the story is that we should not be violent but should try to resolve differences in an agreeable manner, just like we try to on this thread.
Disagree sure, but in an agreeable manner.
 
Hi . Sorry i didnt manage to answer this soon but was busy. Yes i must admit that if anybody wanted to pick on selected verses and situations then its very easy to point out all these things that you guys are highlighting.
By the way, not only you have problems with this but many sincere Christians also struggle with some of the things they read. And i can tell you honestly i struggled too.
Why God allows innocent babies, kids to suffer and yet some bad people live to a ripe old age abusing others all their lives.
Why God killed so many people as seen in the bible
Why this ...why that.
Guys, i definitely cant explain this to you and i wont even try very much.
We all have our thoughts and positions that we have taken about God and us, or no God , just us.
I am just happy that we managed to discuss this in a gentlemanly manner and who knows, maybe we can chat again on some other topic next time.

you see , what you said does not answer any of the questions posed.
you just trying to side step the questions , simply because you don't have the answers.
firstly , if you are a chinese , most likely you became a christain because you followed you friend to the church or you come from a mission school.
you see older generation burning joss stick and paper , you see people getting marry in church , you think christain is a modern , trendy thing to follow.
after a few visit to the church , you already decided to be a christain , based on your person biased opinions and liking.
so after years of being a christain , suddenly , you are given proof that the thing is not what it said to be.
but your ego is too big to admit the mistake. you rather fight to the end to protect yourself from being seem as a fool for those past years.
you cannot never change a person mindset that is cast in stone.
 
hi fishbuff this is exactly my point. I believe we all have to give an account of our lives once its over, but only to whom.Some believe Vishnu or Zeus or whoever but I have chosen to believe Jesus.
Personally I think that Christianity has required me to have faith in certain things which i cannot understand but it has not deleted my IQ.
I still have to think out problems and situations in my job. Any foul up and i have to answer to my boss. So i still have to figure out problems. In the religious sphere thinking also has a central place but a lot of things require faith.
For example how do we know that the serpent and Eve actually said those words ? Who was there to record and document them?
Who was present when God and satan talked about Job?
All these require faith and so I believe.
Talking to you guys is one story but i can honestly tell you that many Christians also ask a lot of questions which are just as difficult as what has been asked here. Some ask even more because they have read the Bible in its entirety.
So its not possible to answer a lot of questions and i do believe that God meant it to be like that.
He wants childlike faith which actually sounds ridiculous to those who dont believe. Many Pharisees, Saducees and the old Jewish teachers of the law couldnt believe Jesus because they wanted logic and only logic. Logic is important but faith is required too.
So in the end, this is the God i believe in and whom i hope to give an account to when my life is done.



there is a saying; Philosophy have questions without answers, whereas religions are answers without questions.

what you do in your work is a closed system process, it require minimum brain works, and the variables aren't many. doesnt take an einstein to do either your or my jobs.

i asked my fellow xtian believers; who wrote the first 4 gospels? nobody want to dwell on the facts that these are written by unknown authors with 2nd, 3rd or unverifiable accounts or relationship with the jesus figure. but believers will cling onto the hope that all words are "inspired" by god.

a religious mind is held hostage by fear, and beyond the mental walls, believers are imprisoned in. I too was in the same boat, lacking higher mindsets to guide me.

as the passage goes; see and you do not perceive, hear and you do not listen, and i may add; understand but you dont question.

until you are willing to let go your mental shackle, there is little that i can do. I understand how binding religions are and they are a hard things to let go. I wont insult nor condemn any believers, im only dead against those religious pastor charlatans that use religions to pull in influence, power and money for themselves, and impose their stupidity and will on others.
 
Hi NF, they shouldnt do violence and should be magnanimous. I wholeheartedly agree.

But please remember that these are human beings who are fallible. People do not have to be perfect to come to God but it is the other way round. They come to God to be made better. During the process of the journey they sure to fail and fall in their behaviour. I think there is no miracle jump to become perfect all of a sudden. So you will surely see this type of behaviour wherever you go whether christian, Buddhist, Hindu , Muslim , non believer in God or anybody.
The teaching is not violent unless you have deviant teachers .
So in the end the story is that we should not be violent but should try to resolve differences in an agreeable manner, just like we try to on this thread.
Disagree sure, but in an agreeable manner.

i beg to defer. what you had said is 20th, 21st century thinking that had evolved over time. if you flashbacked to the 9th, 10th century era, what kind of answer will you give? as time change, so is the morality of religions. see? so many churches are accepting gays as a lifestyle and divorcees are marrying one another. if you move back to the olden days of romans, according to the bible, you can stone your misbehaving children to death and this is commanded in the old testament.

bottomline; we change what we want the religions to appear to be; and that is trying to bring intelligence and modern day wisdom to religions. sadly, it is sugar coating around human extrement, no matter how the appealing and sweet the outer appearance is, it is still crap at the core.
 
Christianity is not like science. If what is in it is true, it can never lose its relevance.

how do you know it is true? read those bible passages below. do we cherry pick those that we want, and discard those that dont agree with society? hmmm...

http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

New Testament Verses Which Demand Following the Old Testament and Law Contradictions:

I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the “lamb” to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another bullshit scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it! After this section I shall list where the Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35



Law Contradictions of the Bible:

10) Shall we obey the law? Romans 13:1-7 says quite clearly that Christians are to submit to the law and regard it as the institution of God. 1 Peter 2:13-14 “Submit your self to every ordinance of man ... to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors.” Matthew 22:21 “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s.” Also see Titus 3:1. Matthew 23:2-3 & Ecclesiastes 8:2 This leads one to assume that Christians must and should obey the law, yet look at these verses which contradicts what I just sited. Acts 5:29 “We ought to obey God rather then men.” Exodus 1:17-20 shows God punishing the midwives for following their rulers instead of God. Also see Daniel 3:16-18, 6:7-10, Acts 4:26 & 27, Mark 12:38-40, Luke 23:11, 24 & 33-35 which all say the law should be ignored. Now we know why Christians get away with their selective morality so often.

11) Should we steal? (Exodus 20:15 & Leviticus 19:13) Stealing is absolutely forbidden. Yet, Exodus 3:21-22, 12:35-36 & Luke 19:29-34 all promote stealing.

12) Should we judge? Jesus is quoted in Matthew 7:1-2: “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged.” Also see Luke 6:37 & 1 Corinthians 5:12. Now take a look at “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). Also note 1 Corinthians 5:12 & 6:2-4.

1 3) Should we covet? Exodus 20:17 says, “Thou shalt not covet . . . anything that is thy neighbor’s,” while 1 Corinthians 12:31 says, “Covet earnestly the best gifts.” So, are we or are we not to covet?

14) Is lying okay? Exodus 20:16. Proverbs 12:22 & Revelations 21:8 all say lying is forbidden. Joshua 2:4-6, Exodus 1:18-20 & 1 Kings 22:21-22 all support lying.

15) Can we kill? Exodus 20:13 says “thou shalt not kill”. Exodus 32:27, Numbers 31, and THOUSANDS of other verses show God commanding us to kill.

16) Can we own slaves? Leviticus 25:45 “Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy … and they shall be your possession… they shall be your bondmen forever.” Genesis 9:25 “And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.” Exodus 21:2 & 7 “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing… And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.” Joel 3:8 “And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it.” Luke 12:47-48 [Jesus speaking] “And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.” Colossians 3:22

“Servants, obey in all things your masters.” So obviously the Biblical God thinks slavery is right, right? Just look at these: Isaiah 58:6 “Undo the heavy burdens... let the oppressed go free, ... break every yoke.” Matthew 23:10 “Neither be ye called Masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.” (Also see Exodus 22:21 & 21:16) Let it be known here that pro-slavery Bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-slavery verses than cited here. I simply do not have the room to post all of them.

17) What about Improvidence? Improvidence is enjoined in Luke 12:3 “Sell that ye have and give alms.” also in Luke 6:30 & 35 “Give to every man that asketh of thee, and of him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again ... And lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great.” Also note Matthew 6:28, 31 & 34. Improvidence is condemned in I Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. “ Also see Proverbs 13:22.

18) What does the law say about anger? Ephesians 4:26 says “Be ye angry and sin not not.” Anger is disapproved in Ecciesiastes 7:9 “Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry; for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.” Proverbs 22:24 “Make no friendship with an angry man.” Also see James 1:20.

19) Are we to let our good works be seen? Matthew 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works.” This contradicts verse Matthew 6:1 , “Take heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them.”

20) Should we pray in public? 1 Kings 2:22, 54 & 9:3 shows the Lord is joyed by public prayer and listens intently. Matthew 6:5-6 condemn public prayer and command people keep it a secret.

21) Can we wear long hair? Judges 13:5 & Numbers 6:5 encourages people to grow their hair and insists it is a source of strength. 1 Corinthians 11:14 calls long hair a “shame”.

22) Should we circumcise males? Genesis 17:10 “This is my covenant which ye shall keep between me and you and thy seed after thee: Every man and child among you shall be circumcised. Clearly this demands circumcision, yet Galatians 5:2 says “Behold, I Paul, say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

23) Are there certain kinds of foods we should not eat? Deuteronomy 14:2-8 lists several animals that we are NOT to eat because they are “unclean”, “chew the cud” and “divide the hoof”. Yet Genesis 9:3 & 1 Corinthians 10:25 insists there is nothing we can’t eat. Romans 14:14 says: “There is nothing unclean of itself.”

24) Can we take oaths? Numbers 30:2, Genesis 21:23-24, 31, 31:53 & Hebrews 6:13 says that we can take oaths and encourages it. Matthew 5:34 says “swear (make an oath) not at all.”

25) Can we get married? Genesis 2:18, 1:28, Matthew 19:5 & Hebrews 13:4 all insist marriage is honorable. Marriage is disapproved and scorned in 1 Corinthians 7:1 & 7:7-8.

26) Can we commit adultery? Exodus 20: 14 “thou shalt not commit adultery.” Also see Hebrews 13:4. Now look at Numbers 31:18, Hosea 1:2 & 2:1-3 where adultery is advocated by God.

27) Can we drink alcohol? Proverbs 31:6-7, 1 Timothy 5:23 & Psalms 104:15 all encourage drinking and intoxication. Proverbs 20:1 & 23:31-32 discourage drinking and intoxication.

28) Do women have rights? Genesis 3:16 “And thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” 1 Timothy 2:12 says a woman must not teach, remain silent and must be subjugated to her man. 1 Corinthians 14:34 & 1 Peter 3:6 both say that women have limited rights and are under control of their men. Judges 4:4, 14-15, 5:7, Acts 2:18 & 21:9 all tell of powerful women who were not subjugated by men and were not punished for their authority of men.

29) Should we obey our masters with usurped authority? Colossians 3:22-23 & 1 Peter 2:18 says we should. 1 Corinthians 7:23 “Be not ye the servants of men.” Also see Matthew 4:10 & 23:10 which say we should not submit usurped to our masters.

30) Was the law of the Old Testament destroyed by Christ’s crucification? Luke16:16, Ephesians 2:15 & Romans 7:6 says that the old law is no longer binding. Yet Matthew 5:17-19 and MANY other verses say that the old law is forever binding. If you want to see the many verses that command we follow the old law please consult the upper portion of this page.

31) Should we swear an oath? Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath…he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.” Genesis 21:22-24 & 31 “…swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me…And Abraham said, I will swear…Wherefore he called that place Beersheba [“Well of the oath”]; because there they sware both of them.” Hebrews 6:13-17 “For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself…for men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability ofhis counsel, confirmed it by an oath.” See also Genesis 22:15- 19, Genesis 31 :53, & Judges I 1 :30-39. So apparently it is okay to swear an oath, we even do this on the Bible in American courts. Just try and forget these verses: Matthew 5:34-37 “But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven…nor by the earth…Neither shalt thou swear by thy head…But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

James 5:12 “…swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

32) Do we keep the Sabbath? Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.” Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.” Numbers 15:32-36 “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.” Each of these contradict Isaiah 1:13 “The new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity.“ John 5:16 “And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the Sabbath day. “Colossians 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days.”

33) Should we make graven images? Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven…earth ... water.” Leviticus 26:1 “Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone.” Deuteronomy 27:15 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” Okay, I got it I shouldn’t produce a thing in fear of making a graven image, but wait: Exodus 25:18 “And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.” I Kings 7:15-16 & 23-25 “For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass…and two chapiters of molten brass…And he made a molten sea…it stood upon twelve oxen ... [and so on]”
 
congrats you are a freeman now .

yes, it is liberating. i love science a lot since young and it has been logger headed with religions in my mind since my teachers had influenced me. not to mention the constant bombardment from pastors and christian believers. i dont think i can afford that freedom in SG, swimming against the mainstream of mass delusions is extremely difficult.

now my mind is free, no more junks from Ken Miller, young earth creationism or intelligence design!
 
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